| lotuspsychje | good morning to all | 04:48 |
|---|---|---|
| lotuspsychje | hey EriC^ | 04:59 |
| ducasse | good morning | 06:25 |
| lotuspsychje | hey ducasse | 06:25 |
| lotuspsychje | all ok? | 06:26 |
| ducasse | all good, yes. you? | 06:27 |
| lotuspsychje | splendid weather again here | 06:27 |
| ducasse | same here. work today? | 06:27 |
| lotuspsychje | yep, tomorrow off | 06:28 |
| lordievader[m] | Good morning | 06:32 |
| ducasse | hi lordievader[m] | 06:32 |
| lordievader[m] | Hey ducasse, how are you? | 06:32 |
| ducasse | all good, and you? | 06:33 |
| lordievader[m] | Doing good here :) | 06:35 |
| ducasse | still waking up, but some more tea will clear that up :) | 06:38 |
| lotuspsychje | :p | 06:39 |
| lordievader[m] | :) | 06:54 |
| lordievader[m] | ducasse: Enjoy | 06:54 |
| lotuspsychje | hey brunch | 07:16 |
| brunch | good morning, lotuspsychje :) | 07:17 |
| lotuspsychje | http://www.deviantart.com/customization/screenshots/nix/newest/ | 07:24 |
| lotuspsychje | newest desks | 07:24 |
| lordievader[m] | In that category, I like browsing https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/ | 07:32 |
| lotuspsychje | lordievader[m]: monsters :p | 07:33 |
| lordievader[m] | ? | 07:33 |
| lotuspsychje | monster machines to battle | 07:34 |
| lordievader[m] | Nah, some are friendly ;) | 07:38 |
| BluesKaj | Hiyas all | 11:52 |
| EriC^^ | hiya BluesKaj | 12:00 |
| BluesKaj | Hi EriC^^ , wwhat's happening? | 12:01 |
| EriC^^ | not much, eating some icecream :D you? | 12:01 |
| BluesKaj | just morning coffee here | 12:02 |
| EriC^^ | cool | 12:02 |
| EriC^^ | where in canada are you from? | 12:02 |
| BluesKaj | trying to get geared up for the day ahead. I'm about 400KM North of Toronto | 12:03 |
| EriC^^ | ah cool | 12:04 |
| BluesKaj | small town near Lake Huron /North Channel..very touristy area | 12:05 |
| EriC^^ | that's cool | 12:06 |
| BluesKaj | yeah , it's nice here...winters are very cold by your mediterranean climate standards tho | 12:08 |
| EriC^^ | yeah, some people i knew from canada used to say you guys got special jackets against the cold | 12:09 |
| EriC^^ | the jackets there are designed some way and are great | 12:09 |
| EriC^^ | i've always wanted to visit canada, i had some friends there i knew from irc and we stayed friends for a long time but never met | 12:11 |
| EriC^^ | seems like a very fun and peaceful country at the same time | 12:13 |
| EriC^^ | you were born there? | 12:14 |
| BluesKaj | EriC^^, I was born in Finland to swedish speaking parents, sort of like Linux Torvalds. We emigrated to Canada when i was a small child. So I basically grew up here. | 12:18 |
| BluesKaj | Linus Torvalds :-) | 12:20 |
| BluesKaj | What about you EriC^^ , lived in Lebanon all your life? | 12:25 |
| EriC^^ | BluesKaj: i was born in the usa, came to lebanon when i was about 6 and was raised here in lebanon | 13:44 |
| EriC^^ | hey pauljw | 13:44 |
| BluesKaj | EriC^^, interesting and you stayed, still have American citizenship ? | 13:45 |
| EriC^^ | yup | 13:45 |
| BluesKaj | cool | 13:45 |
| BluesKaj | I've lived in Canada since I was 4 yrs old ...I'm an old retired guy now ...kids are all grown and I have 5 grandchildren | 13:48 |
| EriC^^ | that's nice :) | 13:49 |
| BluesKaj | Linux has become my hobby, especially in winter , it's kinda fun :-) | 13:52 |
| EriC^^ | yup | 14:05 |
| pauljw | hey EriC^^ , BluesKaj, everyone. how's it going today? | 14:21 |
| BluesKaj | hi pauljw, fine here, and you ? | 14:22 |
| pauljw | doing well, BluesKaj. keep getting called away from the computer... :) | 14:30 |
| BluesKaj | Dreyk, check your irc cleint/internet connection or turn off auto join | 14:59 |
| tgm4883 | Is there a name for when someone has added so many 'fixes' to something that it doesn't even resemble the original item anymore so you don't want to work on it? | 15:52 |
| BluesKaj | tgm4883, patched to death ? | 15:59 |
| tgm4883 | BluesKaj: I was hoping for a one word catchy name, like the xy problem | 16:00 |
| BluesKaj | catchy , ok patchy :-) | 16:02 |
| lotuspsychje | good evening to all | 18:01 |
| lotuspsychje | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/06/latest-ubuntu-17-10-update-ditches-unity-desktop-installs-gnome | 18:06 |
| EriC^^ | hey all | 18:39 |
| lotuspsychje | hey EriC^^ | 18:40 |
| EriC^^ | what's up lotuspsychje ? | 18:41 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: just finished work | 18:41 |
| EriC^^ | cool | 18:42 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: tommorow first laptop delivery for a customer | 18:42 |
| EriC^^ | nice! | 18:42 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: Clevo i3 4gig ram 850 pro samsung ssd | 18:42 |
| EriC^^ | nice :D | 18:42 |
| EriC^^ | it's the dawn of a new time | 18:43 |
| EriC^^ | hehe you know what i mean | 18:43 |
| lotuspsychje | yeah | 18:43 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: this customer needs windows, so its an exception | 18:43 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: i was thinking to install ubuntu-gnome 16.04 on first ubuntu system i sell | 18:44 |
| lotuspsychje | EriC^^: so the 18.04 unity=>gnome shock will be less | 18:44 |
| EriC^^ | yeah that's an idea | 18:45 |
| EriC^^ | still cant believe unity will go | 18:45 |
| lotuspsychje | same here | 18:45 |
| lotuspsychje | i silently hope, that gnome survey will give us a nice workable default gnome | 18:46 |
| EriC^^ | hope so | 18:46 |
| EriC^^ | i never liked gnome much, felt fat | 18:47 |
| lotuspsychje | gnome2 was nice | 18:47 |
| EriC^^ | never tried that one | 18:47 |
| EriC^^ | i think ill stick with unity | 18:47 |
| EriC^^ | its been my favorite | 18:47 |
| EriC^^ | it's hard to part with it :D | 18:48 |
| lotuspsychje | i know, but i cant risk to mess with my customers | 18:48 |
| EriC^^ | xubuntu is lacking lubuntu is pale gnome is fat kde is fisiky | 18:48 |
| lotuspsychje | so i thought, why not training them to gnome right away? | 18:49 |
| EriC^^ | yeah it's a good idea | 18:49 |
| EriC^^ | you know, i wish you could like make an os that has multiple de nicely and they can choose which to keep | 18:49 |
| EriC^^ | everybody puts linux and first thing they think is i wanna try de's | 18:50 |
| EriC^^ | just an idea | 18:51 |
| lotuspsychje_ | yeah | 18:51 |
| lotuspsychje_ | EriC^^: they say unity will still in repos right, but wont it die silently? | 18:51 |
| EriC^^ | i hope so! | 18:52 |
| EriC^^ | i think i'll still run it far into the future | 18:52 |
| EriC^^ | i'm still on xchat to this day! | 18:52 |
| lotuspsychje_ | lol | 18:52 |
| lotuspsychje_ | well it sure is lighter then hex | 18:52 |
| EriC^^ | yeah it looks nicer and just is nice | 18:53 |
| EriC^^ | it's odd unity is great, i wonder what the motivation was to cut it | 18:53 |
| EriC^^ | if anything is just needs a button "always behind" in the window and then its perfect almost (xubuntu has that) | 18:54 |
| lotuspsychje_ | what i find intrusive, is to create something to take away | 18:55 |
| lotuspsychje_ | why not leave it alive and keep it updated and focus to gnome? | 18:55 |
| EriC^^ | what do you mean? | 18:55 |
| EriC^^ | yeah | 18:55 |
| EriC^^ | saving costs i guess | 18:55 |
| EriC^^ | $$ | 18:55 |
| lotuspsychje_ | same for the BQ phones, users payed for a phone, now in june updates ends? | 18:56 |
| EriC^^ | it's the flagship though | 18:56 |
| lotuspsychje_ | you cant rip off ppl like that | 18:56 |
| EriC^^ | yeah | 18:56 |
| lotuspsychje_ | im sure BQ would say now, you can still install android image | 18:57 |
| EriC^^ | aha | 18:57 |
| EriC^^ | that's shitty | 18:58 |
| EriC^^ | oh well, c'est la vie! | 18:58 |
| === lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje | ||
| EriC^^ | $ makes the world turn around | 18:59 |
| lotuspsychje | buy one, throw away one.. | 18:59 |
| EriC^^ | it's just so inconsistent | 18:59 |
| EriC^^ | ubuntu is supposed to be something | 19:00 |
| EriC^^ | and it's a company trying to be profitable at the same time | 19:00 |
| EriC^^ | somebody should make an actual ubuntu | 19:00 |
| EriC^^ | lol | 19:00 |
| lotuspsychje | its ironical | 19:00 |
| EriC^^ | yeah | 19:01 |
| lotuspsychje | but mark says desktop will keep important so | 19:01 |
| lotuspsychje | lucky us | 19:01 |
| nacc | to be clear, ubuntu is not a company | 19:01 |
| EriC^^ | i dont buy it a lot, why's unity going | 19:02 |
| lotuspsychje | nacc: but devs get payed right? | 19:02 |
| EriC^^ | nacc: how so? | 19:02 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: canonical employees get paid | 19:02 |
| nacc | EriC^^: canonical is a company | 19:02 |
| lotuspsychje | right | 19:02 |
| nacc | EriC^^: ubuntu is an open source project | 19:02 |
| EriC^^ | well yeah but it's target is to make the company profitable | 19:03 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: and other companies pay their employees to contribute to ubuntu as well (IBM, Intel, etc.) | 19:03 |
| nacc | EriC^^: whose target? | 19:03 |
| EriC^^ | canonical's | 19:03 |
| EriC^^ | if ubuntu doesn't make money bam it's gone no? | 19:03 |
| nacc | ubuntu makes $0 | 19:03 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i think you're blurring a line unnecessarily | 19:03 |
| nacc | In that canonical is a for-profit company, yes, I think canonical's goal is to make a profit | 19:04 |
| EriC^^ | yeah and ubuntu is their project | 19:04 |
| nacc | That does not, in and of itself, determine ubuntu's direction in all matters | 19:04 |
| nacc | there is a lot of stuff in ubuntu that has nothing to do with revenue or profit | 19:05 |
| lotuspsychje | lets say canonical looses money, ubuntu desktop will remain stable? | 19:05 |
| EriC^^ | well that's nice to know | 19:05 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i mean, most of universe, probably :) | 19:05 |
| nacc | EriC^^: it's all just normal open source stuff | 19:05 |
| lotuspsychje | its hard for us to divide canonical & ubuntu | 19:06 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: i'm not sure how to answer that | 19:06 |
| lotuspsychje | but we are users, not insiders | 19:06 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: i have to wear both hats, so i divide them all the time :) | 19:06 |
| lotuspsychje | i see | 19:06 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: but i understand that | 19:06 |
| lotuspsychje | the infrastructure is complex | 19:07 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: which infrastructure? | 19:07 |
| EriC^^ | it doesn't feel like canonical cares about the users of ubuntu nor the ideology it presented with ubuntu itself | 19:07 |
| EriC^^ | take the name itself | 19:07 |
| lotuspsychje | i mean like, IOT, servers, ubuntu core, all branches their going | 19:07 |
| nacc | EriC^^: what makes you say that? (two statements there, I guess maybe the first one) | 19:08 |
| EriC^^ | nacc: well i read that for instance phones were dropped cause they were deemed unprofitable, and also unity 8 was dropped cause it guess it's related to phones and unity will cost money to maintain | 19:09 |
| nacc | EriC^^: the canonical investment in both was dropped, yes | 19:10 |
| EriC^^ | and unity was like the flagship easy going easy to use ubuntu "unity" unifying desktop, and it's like no money it's gone | 19:10 |
| nacc | EriC^^: so you would expect a company to stay invested in a revenue-losing venture (not justifying it, just trying to understand) -- e.g., phone or unity8. | 19:11 |
| lotuspsychje | well i also understand, times changes | 19:12 |
| nacc | EriC^^: tbh, unity was a failure | 19:12 |
| lotuspsychje | if wayland is the future..perhaps we cant stay behind? | 19:12 |
| nacc | EriC^^: well, 'convergence' was -- via unity8 | 19:12 |
| nacc | no one else went that route | 19:12 |
| nacc | and it's impossible for one distribution to maintain a fork like that forever, it's just too expensive | 19:12 |
| EriC^^ | i guess either i have it confused or i think its more of a misleading kind of thing, like i read that the guy was a millionaire and wanted to make an open source project thats friendly to users and stuff like that, feels more like a club or idea or so, and then it's like it's some guy who's trying to show he can put nice profit numbers out of an open source project | 19:12 |
| nacc | (a fork of the entire graphics stack that is) | 19:13 |
| nacc | EriC^^: I certainly think that's how it started | 19:13 |
| nacc | EriC^^: but he also started a *company* to do it | 19:13 |
| EriC^^ | the logo, the names of the os etc they all convey a certain idea, but it's far from the actual concept that's going on | 19:13 |
| nacc | EriC^^: not just paying existing open source developers without any direction | 19:13 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i think it's perfectly legitimate to not favor the direction ubuntu is going | 19:14 |
| nacc | EriC^^: but i think it's also irrational to think one person is going to intentionally lose money to keep non-paying users happy | 19:14 |
| nacc | (just my opinion, to be clear) | 19:14 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i think phone and unity8 were both huge mistakes, tbh | 19:14 |
| EriC^^ | well he's a millionaire | 19:14 |
| EriC^^ | :P | 19:14 |
| EriC^^ | or billionaire? | 19:15 |
| nacc | EriC^^: neither should have ever been done | 19:15 |
| nacc | EriC^^: yes, and probalby he'd like to stay one :) | 19:15 |
| EriC^^ | well yeah | 19:15 |
| lotuspsychje | are there distro's that keep their systems up to date for free? | 19:16 |
| EriC^^ | so why the whole ubuntu name and logo and and and | 19:16 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: how do you mean? ubuntu, fedora and opensuse, among others, are free | 19:16 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: debian, arch, etc. | 19:16 |
| EriC^^ | lotuspsychje: i guess arch isn't a company | 19:16 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: or do you mean 'for free' as in 'without cost to the distribution' ? | 19:16 |
| lotuspsychje | yeah without cost to distr | 19:17 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: i'm not sure how arch does it, tbh. They might get donations from users, e.g. | 19:17 |
| nacc | lotuspsychje: but just hosting a distribution takes $$ | 19:18 |
| lotuspsychje | ah yes | 19:18 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i wasn't around when ubuntu started (at canonical). I've been using ubuntu roughly since then, though. What specifically do you feel like is not following ubuntu's mission or name? | 19:19 |
| EriC^^ | nacc: well the dropping off the phones, unity 8 and unity all together due to profitability issues | 19:23 |
| nacc | EriC^^: so i think basically, canonical was propping up unity8 | 19:23 |
| nacc | EriC^^: and mark has chosen to stop that | 19:24 |
| nacc | EriC^^: if unity8 wants to continue because it's the 'right' choice, that's a community decision to make | 19:24 |
| nacc | EriC^^: tbh, like i said, i think the phone idea was stupid | 19:24 |
| nacc | EriC^^: and was guaranteed to fail | 19:24 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i think unity8 is tied to phone/convergence | 19:24 |
| nacc | EriC^^: once the latter is gone, the former is not really sensible | 19:24 |
| EriC^^ | yeah, why drop unity altogether though | 19:25 |
| nacc | EriC^^: they are just changing the default | 19:25 |
| nacc | EriC^^: unity is still in the archives | 19:25 |
| nacc | unity 7 that is | 19:25 |
| EriC^^ | it wont get any updates past 18.04 though no? | 19:25 |
| nacc | EriC^^: why not? | 19:26 |
| nacc | EriC^^: it's not being removed from ubuntu | 19:26 |
| EriC^^ | well that's cool | 19:26 |
| nacc | EriC^^: at least, afaik | 19:26 |
| EriC^^ | i thought it won't be in the repos or have any changes being made at all | 19:26 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i mean it'll be in universe and someone has to keep taking care of it | 19:26 |
| nacc | EriC^^: that is not my understanding, but I could be wrong | 19:26 |
| nacc | EriC^^: it will be like xfce4 or gnome-shell is now | 19:27 |
| nacc | EriC^^: although gnome-shell just moved to main in 17.10 | 19:27 |
| nacc | EriC^^: and probably unity will drop to universe in 17.10 as well | 19:28 |
| EriC^^ | oh ok | 19:28 |
| nacc | EriC^^: i'm not on desktop or really involved, so i'm not sure what the plan is for 18.04 exactly | 19:28 |
| nacc | EriC^^: but i don't think there's any intention of it being removed | 19:28 |
| nacc | EriC^^: just a default change (gnome going forward) | 19:28 |
| lotuspsychje | articles say it will still be on repos | 19:28 |
| nacc | which puts ubuntu more in line with many other distributions | 19:28 |
| EriC^^ | nice! :D | 19:30 |
| xangua | Too much chocolate | 19:30 |
| lotuspsychje | hey xangua & KingsQuest | 19:30 |
| KingsQuest | hello | 19:32 |
| KingsQuest | thank you | 19:32 |
| lotuspsychje | xangua: is there such a thing as too much? | 19:39 |
| xangua | 10 chocolate bars | 19:40 |
| xangua | 8 left | 19:40 |
| lotuspsychje | lol | 19:40 |
| lotuspsychje | wash it down with a couple of beers :p | 19:41 |
| lotuspsychje | welcome tamaros | 19:41 |
| Bashing-om | Chores caught up .. and back on the keyboard :) | 20:07 |
| lotuspsychje | wb Bashing-om | 20:07 |
| lotuspsychje | Bashing-om: support slow & steady | 20:08 |
| Bashing-om | lotuspsychje: I be watching now .. see what my 2 cents is worth :) | 20:10 |
| lotuspsychje | :p | 20:10 |
| lotuspsychje | bbl guys bedtime :p | 20:18 |
| Bashing-om | Nite nite lotuspsychje o/ | 20:19 |
| lotuspsychje | nite ; ) | 20:19 |
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