[04:48] good morning to all [04:59] hey EriC^ [06:25] good morning [06:25] hey ducasse [06:26] all ok? [06:27] all good, yes. you? [06:27] splendid weather again here [06:27] same here. work today? [06:28] yep, tomorrow off [06:32] Good morning [06:32] hi lordievader[m] [06:32] Hey ducasse, how are you? [06:33] all good, and you? [06:35] Doing good here :) [06:38] still waking up, but some more tea will clear that up :) [06:39] :p [06:54] :) [06:54] ducasse: Enjoy [07:16] hey brunch [07:17] good morning, lotuspsychje :) [07:24] http://www.deviantart.com/customization/screenshots/nix/newest/ [07:24] newest desks [07:32] In that category, I like browsing https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/ [07:33] lordievader[m]: monsters :p [07:33] ? [07:34] monster machines to battle [07:38] Nah, some are friendly ;) [11:52] Hiyas all [12:00] hiya BluesKaj [12:01] Hi EriC^^ , wwhat's happening? [12:01] not much, eating some icecream :D you? [12:02] just morning coffee here [12:02] cool [12:02] where in canada are you from? [12:03] trying to get geared up for the day ahead. I'm about 400KM North of Toronto [12:04] ah cool [12:05] small town near Lake Huron /North Channel..very touristy area [12:06] that's cool [12:08] yeah , it's nice here...winters are very cold by your mediterranean climate standards tho [12:09] yeah, some people i knew from canada used to say you guys got special jackets against the cold [12:09] the jackets there are designed some way and are great [12:11] i've always wanted to visit canada, i had some friends there i knew from irc and we stayed friends for a long time but never met [12:13] seems like a very fun and peaceful country at the same time [12:14] you were born there? [12:18] EriC^^, I was born in Finland to swedish speaking parents, sort of like Linux Torvalds. We emigrated to Canada when i was a small child. So I basically grew up here. [12:20] Linus Torvalds :-) [12:25] What about you EriC^^ , lived in Lebanon all your life? [13:44] BluesKaj: i was born in the usa, came to lebanon when i was about 6 and was raised here in lebanon [13:44] hey pauljw [13:45] EriC^^, interesting and you stayed, still have American citizenship ? [13:45] yup [13:45] cool [13:48] I've lived in Canada since I was 4 yrs old ...I'm an old retired guy now ...kids are all grown and I have 5 grandchildren [13:49] that's nice :) [13:52] Linux has become my hobby, especially in winter , it's kinda fun :-) [14:05] yup [14:21] hey EriC^^ , BluesKaj, everyone. how's it going today? [14:22] hi pauljw, fine here, and you ? [14:30] doing well, BluesKaj. keep getting called away from the computer... :) [14:59] Dreyk, check your irc cleint/internet connection or turn off auto join [15:52] Is there a name for when someone has added so many 'fixes' to something that it doesn't even resemble the original item anymore so you don't want to work on it? [15:59] tgm4883, patched to death ? [16:00] BluesKaj: I was hoping for a one word catchy name, like the xy problem [16:02] catchy , ok patchy :-) [18:01] good evening to all [18:06] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/06/latest-ubuntu-17-10-update-ditches-unity-desktop-installs-gnome [18:39] hey all [18:40] hey EriC^^ [18:41] what's up lotuspsychje ? [18:41] EriC^^: just finished work [18:42] cool [18:42] EriC^^: tommorow first laptop delivery for a customer [18:42] nice! [18:42] EriC^^: Clevo i3 4gig ram 850 pro samsung ssd [18:42] nice :D [18:43] it's the dawn of a new time [18:43] hehe you know what i mean [18:43] yeah [18:43] EriC^^: this customer needs windows, so its an exception [18:44] EriC^^: i was thinking to install ubuntu-gnome 16.04 on first ubuntu system i sell [18:44] EriC^^: so the 18.04 unity=>gnome shock will be less [18:45] yeah that's an idea [18:45] still cant believe unity will go [18:45] same here [18:46] i silently hope, that gnome survey will give us a nice workable default gnome [18:46] hope so [18:47] i never liked gnome much, felt fat [18:47] gnome2 was nice [18:47] never tried that one [18:47] i think ill stick with unity [18:47] its been my favorite [18:48] it's hard to part with it :D [18:48] i know, but i cant risk to mess with my customers [18:48] xubuntu is lacking lubuntu is pale gnome is fat kde is fisiky [18:49] so i thought, why not training them to gnome right away? [18:49] yeah it's a good idea [18:49] you know, i wish you could like make an os that has multiple de nicely and they can choose which to keep [18:50] everybody puts linux and first thing they think is i wanna try de's [18:51] just an idea [18:51] yeah [18:51] EriC^^: they say unity will still in repos right, but wont it die silently? [18:52] i hope so! [18:52] i think i'll still run it far into the future [18:52] i'm still on xchat to this day! [18:52] lol [18:52] well it sure is lighter then hex [18:53] yeah it looks nicer and just is nice [18:53] it's odd unity is great, i wonder what the motivation was to cut it [18:54] if anything is just needs a button "always behind" in the window and then its perfect almost (xubuntu has that) [18:55] what i find intrusive, is to create something to take away [18:55] why not leave it alive and keep it updated and focus to gnome? [18:55] what do you mean? [18:55] yeah [18:55] saving costs i guess [18:55] $$ [18:56] same for the BQ phones, users payed for a phone, now in june updates ends? [18:56] it's the flagship though [18:56] you cant rip off ppl like that [18:56] yeah [18:57] im sure BQ would say now, you can still install android image [18:57] aha [18:58] that's shitty [18:58] oh well, c'est la vie! === lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje [18:59] $ makes the world turn around [18:59] buy one, throw away one.. [18:59] it's just so inconsistent [19:00] ubuntu is supposed to be something [19:00] and it's a company trying to be profitable at the same time [19:00] somebody should make an actual ubuntu [19:00] lol [19:00] its ironical [19:01] yeah [19:01] but mark says desktop will keep important so [19:01] lucky us [19:01] to be clear, ubuntu is not a company [19:02] i dont buy it a lot, why's unity going [19:02] nacc: but devs get payed right? [19:02] nacc: how so? [19:02] lotuspsychje: canonical employees get paid [19:02] EriC^^: canonical is a company [19:02] right [19:02] EriC^^: ubuntu is an open source project [19:03] well yeah but it's target is to make the company profitable [19:03] lotuspsychje: and other companies pay their employees to contribute to ubuntu as well (IBM, Intel, etc.) [19:03] EriC^^: whose target? [19:03] canonical's [19:03] if ubuntu doesn't make money bam it's gone no? [19:03] ubuntu makes $0 [19:03] EriC^^: i think you're blurring a line unnecessarily [19:04] In that canonical is a for-profit company, yes, I think canonical's goal is to make a profit [19:04] yeah and ubuntu is their project [19:04] That does not, in and of itself, determine ubuntu's direction in all matters [19:05] there is a lot of stuff in ubuntu that has nothing to do with revenue or profit [19:05] lets say canonical looses money, ubuntu desktop will remain stable? [19:05] well that's nice to know [19:05] EriC^^: i mean, most of universe, probably :) [19:05] EriC^^: it's all just normal open source stuff [19:06] its hard for us to divide canonical & ubuntu [19:06] lotuspsychje: i'm not sure how to answer that [19:06] but we are users, not insiders [19:06] lotuspsychje: i have to wear both hats, so i divide them all the time :) [19:06] i see [19:06] lotuspsychje: but i understand that [19:07] the infrastructure is complex [19:07] lotuspsychje: which infrastructure? [19:07] it doesn't feel like canonical cares about the users of ubuntu nor the ideology it presented with ubuntu itself [19:07] take the name itself [19:07] i mean like, IOT, servers, ubuntu core, all branches their going [19:08] EriC^^: what makes you say that? (two statements there, I guess maybe the first one) [19:09] nacc: well i read that for instance phones were dropped cause they were deemed unprofitable, and also unity 8 was dropped cause it guess it's related to phones and unity will cost money to maintain [19:10] EriC^^: the canonical investment in both was dropped, yes [19:10] and unity was like the flagship easy going easy to use ubuntu "unity" unifying desktop, and it's like no money it's gone [19:11] EriC^^: so you would expect a company to stay invested in a revenue-losing venture (not justifying it, just trying to understand) -- e.g., phone or unity8. [19:12] well i also understand, times changes [19:12] EriC^^: tbh, unity was a failure [19:12] if wayland is the future..perhaps we cant stay behind? [19:12] EriC^^: well, 'convergence' was -- via unity8 [19:12] no one else went that route [19:12] and it's impossible for one distribution to maintain a fork like that forever, it's just too expensive [19:12] i guess either i have it confused or i think its more of a misleading kind of thing, like i read that the guy was a millionaire and wanted to make an open source project thats friendly to users and stuff like that, feels more like a club or idea or so, and then it's like it's some guy who's trying to show he can put nice profit numbers out of an open source project [19:13] (a fork of the entire graphics stack that is) [19:13] EriC^^: I certainly think that's how it started [19:13] EriC^^: but he also started a *company* to do it [19:13] the logo, the names of the os etc they all convey a certain idea, but it's far from the actual concept that's going on [19:13] EriC^^: not just paying existing open source developers without any direction [19:14] EriC^^: i think it's perfectly legitimate to not favor the direction ubuntu is going [19:14] EriC^^: but i think it's also irrational to think one person is going to intentionally lose money to keep non-paying users happy [19:14] (just my opinion, to be clear) [19:14] EriC^^: i think phone and unity8 were both huge mistakes, tbh [19:14] well he's a millionaire [19:14] :P [19:15] or billionaire? [19:15] EriC^^: neither should have ever been done [19:15] EriC^^: yes, and probalby he'd like to stay one :) [19:15] well yeah [19:16] are there distro's that keep their systems up to date for free? [19:16] so why the whole ubuntu name and logo and and and [19:16] lotuspsychje: how do you mean? ubuntu, fedora and opensuse, among others, are free [19:16] lotuspsychje: debian, arch, etc. [19:16] lotuspsychje: i guess arch isn't a company [19:16] lotuspsychje: or do you mean 'for free' as in 'without cost to the distribution' ? [19:17] yeah without cost to distr [19:17] lotuspsychje: i'm not sure how arch does it, tbh. They might get donations from users, e.g. [19:18] lotuspsychje: but just hosting a distribution takes $$ [19:18] ah yes [19:19] EriC^^: i wasn't around when ubuntu started (at canonical). I've been using ubuntu roughly since then, though. What specifically do you feel like is not following ubuntu's mission or name? [19:23] nacc: well the dropping off the phones, unity 8 and unity all together due to profitability issues [19:23] EriC^^: so i think basically, canonical was propping up unity8 [19:24] EriC^^: and mark has chosen to stop that [19:24] EriC^^: if unity8 wants to continue because it's the 'right' choice, that's a community decision to make [19:24] EriC^^: tbh, like i said, i think the phone idea was stupid [19:24] EriC^^: and was guaranteed to fail [19:24] EriC^^: i think unity8 is tied to phone/convergence [19:24] EriC^^: once the latter is gone, the former is not really sensible [19:25] yeah, why drop unity altogether though [19:25] EriC^^: they are just changing the default [19:25] EriC^^: unity is still in the archives [19:25] unity 7 that is [19:25] it wont get any updates past 18.04 though no? [19:26] EriC^^: why not? [19:26] EriC^^: it's not being removed from ubuntu [19:26] well that's cool [19:26] EriC^^: at least, afaik [19:26] i thought it won't be in the repos or have any changes being made at all [19:26] EriC^^: i mean it'll be in universe and someone has to keep taking care of it [19:26] EriC^^: that is not my understanding, but I could be wrong [19:27] EriC^^: it will be like xfce4 or gnome-shell is now [19:27] EriC^^: although gnome-shell just moved to main in 17.10 [19:28] EriC^^: and probably unity will drop to universe in 17.10 as well [19:28] oh ok [19:28] EriC^^: i'm not on desktop or really involved, so i'm not sure what the plan is for 18.04 exactly [19:28] EriC^^: but i don't think there's any intention of it being removed [19:28] EriC^^: just a default change (gnome going forward) [19:28] articles say it will still be on repos [19:28] which puts ubuntu more in line with many other distributions [19:30] nice! :D [19:30] Too much chocolate [19:30] hey xangua & KingsQuest [19:32] hello [19:32] thank you [19:39] xangua: is there such a thing as too much? [19:40] 10 chocolate bars [19:40] 8 left [19:40] lol [19:41] wash it down with a couple of beers :p [19:41] welcome tamaros [20:07] Chores caught up .. and back on the keyboard :) [20:07] wb Bashing-om [20:08] Bashing-om: support slow & steady [20:10] lotuspsychje: I be watching now .. see what my 2 cents is worth :) [20:10] :p [20:18] bbl guys bedtime :p [20:19] Nite nite lotuspsychje o/ [20:19] nite ; )