[00:11] robert_ancell: good afternoon, did you see LP: #1695212 ? [00:11] Launchpad bug 1695212 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[Desktop 20170602] gnome-shell fails to start. Black screen on boot." [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695212 [00:11] hmm, no [00:16] could you cancel and restart these 2 builds, the tests got stuck: [00:16] https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12694951 [00:16] https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12694949 === maclin1 is now known as maclin [01:41] duflu: hey, morning... [01:42] Trevinho: Morning [01:42] duflu: I was thinking, how the subpixel windows are managed in mir? You mentioned that iirc... [01:42] like for fractional-sized windows or something, right? [01:43] Trevinho: I only talked about theoretical plans, and one actual demo shell that hardly anyone used :) [01:43] Trevinho: Regardless... what's the question? [01:52] Trevinho, robert_ancell: Silly question - what and where is the gnome-shell log? [01:58] robert_ancell: it should go in journalctl [01:58] err duflu ^ [02:00] Trevinho, doesn't seem to be there (yet). Or isn't logging anything [02:01] duflu: by default it doesn't say much actuallly... [02:01] Trevinho, heh, sounds important. All these bug reports about gnome-shell not working and we don't have it logging anything useful yet?! :) [02:02] I'm sure it tries to log to somewhere [02:02] duflu: unless you don't set G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all (or better filter) you won't see much [02:03] Oh I see. It's there but logs almost nothing useful [02:03] journalctl /usr/bin/gnome-shell [02:03] FourDollars: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24789597/ [02:04] duflu, I've found no useful debugging [02:05] A little bit worrying really [02:05] robert_ancell: Perhaps wrong default log level? [02:05] even running it from jhbuild it just says few things unless you don't enable debugging [02:05] duflu, I've tried G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all [02:06] that's a lot :-) [02:07] duflu: so for subpixel windows I mean, there was any smart behavior we could reuse in the case when a wayland client is fractionally scaled and that leads to fractional size.... The fact that both the toolkit and wayland doesn't support it to be fractionally scaled is a problem, but mutter can do somthing maybe when compositing... [02:09] Trevinho, you do get a lot of debugging with G_MESSAGES_DEBUB=all? [02:09] robert_ancell: yes.. at least in my jhbuild instance [02:09] perhaps I'm doing it wrong then [02:09] DEBUB, heh :) "hey bub just work alright?" [02:10] :P [02:13] Trevinho: If you have an imperfect combination then my only advice is to keep the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem in mind. Basically make sure you're rendering at >=2.0 * physical resolution if the compositor is displaying it via GL minification [02:14] Although I adhere to that more out of habit now, even without proof that it's relevant [02:16] robert_ancell, Trevinho, RAOF: If anyone is interested then please comment on bug 1696030 [02:16] bug 1696030 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell logging is too brief to be useful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696030 === thumper is now known as thumper-afk [03:40] Trevinho: Did you use hackpad, etherpad or something else to collect the information for this hackfest? [03:41] FourDollars: nope... :-) [03:41] Just a text file so far... [03:41] FourDollars: come over here, so we can talk directly [03:42] Trevinho: OK. === thumper-afk is now known as thumper [03:51] Trevinho: I made https://hackmd.io/KwQwxiAsCmCMwFoCcJiwTAHAEwSESiAbAOwDMYJcAZtWWdkA to collect the information. [05:56] good morning [06:06] hey desktoppers! [06:59] good morning [07:02] morning [07:03] salut jibel, bon week-end ? [07:12] salut didrocks, ça a été. relativement calme, ciné, et rien de particulier hier pour cause de tempête [07:12] didrocks, et toi? [07:14] jibel: pareil, plutôt calme, on est plutôt resté à la maison, au loin de la chaleur [07:15] didrocks, ici pas de probleme de chaleur :) [07:17] oui, j'imagine :) [07:34] jibel: do you know why kenvandine[m][m] readeed unity to ubuntu-meta? [07:36] Added unity, unity-settings-daemon and unity-control-center back to keep it working in parallel with gnome-shell until it no longer requires gdm's gsettings schema installed. [07:36] ok ^ [07:36] didrocks, not at all. To fix the iso? [07:36] I thought the iso had it though [07:37] ok, so not going to push further in the unity removal, I just did the livecd-rootfs change [07:37] it should be a noop, but better to check the image back tomorrow [07:45] morining guys [07:47] hey Trevinho! [07:47] hi didrocks [07:57] * Trevinho didn't have the most important thing for this hackfest: a magnifier! :-D [08:02] morning all [08:02] good morning willcooke [08:03] yooooooooooo [08:03] good morning desktopers [08:03] hey Trevinho Laney willcooke [08:03] re didrocks [08:03] Hi seb128, all [08:03] what's up [08:03] re seb128, hey duflu, Laney [08:03] hi seb128 [08:03] heu duflu [08:03] morning everyone! [08:04] everybody had a good w.e and start of week? [08:04] hey oSoMoN [08:04] problems of HIDPI debugging... https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2cdbcPT5/20170606_160042.jpg [08:04] hey oSoMoN [08:04] Trevinho, lol [08:07] https://plus.google.com/+MarcoTrevisan/posts/ViThEuwaVLk [08:09] nice [08:10] Laney: FYI, in case you didn't notice, I've made the livecd-rootfs change, which should still work even if Ken readded Unity for now [08:10] I'll get to the bottom of removal (ubuntu-session clearly at least) and others when Robert will have fixed the gdm thingy [08:14] didrocks, I think Ken added back unity to have a working session until g-s is fixed [08:14] which apparently is not going to be that easy [08:14] yeah, that was my "even if Ken readded Unity for now" (and I looked at the seed changelog) [08:14] hey didrocks [08:14] good, you found out what it was for [08:15] Laney: yeah, having one iso to confirm that the seed addition instead of those hardcoded packages still work for us isn't a luxury [08:15] so, I'll look at the iso tomorrow, no rush to respin it I guess [08:16] I don't see much movement on the gdm thing :/ [08:16] yeah [08:16] robert_ancell is never verbose on IRC/email/launchpad [08:17] so difficult to know how much on top of it he his [08:17] willcooke did you catch up with him yesterday? [08:17] he said in here last night that he hadn't seen the bug [08:18] :-( [08:18] that was at his start of day though? [08:18] but I guess nobody talked to him in his evening [08:19] * seb128 looks at irclog, who knows; maybe jbicha did [08:19] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1695212/comments/6 [08:19] Ubuntu bug 1695212 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[Desktop 20170602] gnome-shell fails to start. Black screen on boot." [Critical,Triaged] [08:23] :-/ [08:24] anyway [08:24] ken talked to security about the possibility of the other plan [08:28] the other plan is to use lightdm but also promote gdm to use the bindings? [08:29] so having both sources in main? [08:30] Laney, is the revert supposed to fix the iso.? [08:30] I think that was the idea [08:30] does it? [08:30] Laney, it didn't [08:30] it wasn't a revert [08:30] it was adding unity back as well [08:30] let me double check the image [08:30] k, can you tell kenvandine later please? [08:30] probably need to make it a full revert then [08:31] unity starts on the image [08:31] ah wrong image, it synced previous [08:31] but yeah, if you select the g-s session, it fails [08:31] (as expected) [08:31] expected [08:31] :) [08:31] resyncing [08:34] Laney, I confirm it is not fixed with latest desktop iso [08:35] but you have unity starting by default, correct? [08:35] it has ubuntu-desktop 1.385 [08:36] black screen in ubiquity-dm, the live session runs unity [08:37] ok, I only tried the live session [08:37] and black screen when I select install ubuntu, which is expected [08:39] didrocks, libgdm1 is not on the iso [08:39] in the manifest [08:41] jibel: yeah, the only changed that Ken did is to reseed the unity stack (so, back on Thursday's state) [08:41] unsure about the ubiquity-dm crash though [08:51] didrocks, could it be that metacity has been removed? [08:54] didrocks, looking at ubiquity-dm's code, it searches for a valid wm starting with gnome-shell [08:55] maybe it prefers gnome-shell [08:55] Laney, yes ,it's the first in the list [08:55] looks like robert just did an upload that is supposed to fix it [08:56] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L563 [08:56] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu6 [08:56] we should try with that once it's available [08:57] k [09:01] * Laney syncs an iso [09:01] can probably grab that from proposed [09:07] * jibel will never get used to the button on the top right corner of the dialogs :/ [09:11] Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu6/+build/12697533 [09:26] jibel: yeah [09:34] * willcooke puts a jumper on [09:34] in June [09:34] grr [09:35] * Laney is enjumpered too [09:36] * davmor2 points out that willcooke and Laney are wusses [09:36] :D [09:36] davmor2's in Y fronts [09:36] in the paddling pool [09:36] ouch :| [09:36] with a duff [09:36] in the front garden [09:37] yep [09:37] YOU CALL THIS RAIN [09:38] pfff you think we have a garden on the 3rd floor nice I'm in the communal rose garden having a natural shower from the sky it's wonderful you should try it :D [09:39] dreich [09:39] I went out to pick up a latte macchiato at a place a few minutes away this morning, was grey and windy [09:39] that's my current favourite word [09:39] started pourring down as I walked back [09:39] I arrived soaked [09:40] now sky is blue [09:40] grrr [09:40] /o\ [09:45] Laney, gnome shell starts in a live session and after an installation with latest gnome-shell [09:45] so it's good? [09:45] should we revert the revert? [09:45] yeah [09:46] I didn't try ubiquity-dm [09:46] but we should move forward [09:46] sec [09:47] * Laney tries it [09:47] * Laney typoed break=bottm [09:47] le fail [09:52] jibel: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/ubiquity-dm-gnome-shell.png [09:52] that's the ubiquity-dm [09:53] so yah, seems good to me [09:53] looks good [09:53] might respin an iso after it migrates to be sure [09:53] then we can revert it [09:54] nah, let's try the new state again [09:55] * Laney wants to put the new amazon launcher on at the same time, so I'll wait for that to migrate [09:56] * Laney did the third -> first person switch there [09:56] * Laney I fail [09:56] Laney, the revert didn't change much because we want gnome-shell and with or without the revert is doesn't start. At this point it doesn't seem important to have unity on the daily [09:57] jibel: we didn't actually ever lose Unity anyway :P [09:57] didrock_s fixed that though [09:57] hopefully [10:18] leaving for some GNOME beers... See you tomorrow! [10:26] see ya Trevinho [10:39] Trevinho, enjoy, good to see some of us drinking GNOME beers again ;-) [11:22] xnox, hey! Do you think this bug will get any love this cycle? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1047384 [11:22] Ubuntu bug 1047384 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "System Encryption Password set before setting keyboard locale" [Medium,Triaged] === koza|away is now known as koza [11:39] woo! Reinstalled my Zesty machine, connected it to the network, printer was auto discovered and set up. \o/ Thanks tkamppeter [11:51] Laney: you need to remove ubuntu-session as well before the respin [11:51] Laney: want me to do it and reupload (again) ubuntu-meta? [11:52] why need? [11:52] it has a try-exec, but ubuntu-session brings a lot of unity-* things like unity-settings-daemon [11:54] so as we are in the cleanup phase (apart if you want to respin an iso first and then, we do the followup cleaning) [11:54] I just wanted to get something working, and I thought you had the task to clean it up [11:54] so it's not "need" as in "something will be broken"? [11:54] no, just wanted to take the opportunity for that spin [11:55] ok [11:55] go for it if you want [11:55] I'm waiting for unity to drop Task: ubuntu-desktop anyway [11:55] well, let's get an iso built, you are right [11:55] either the new meta gets in or it doesn't, feel free to upload it [11:55] ok [11:55] you can look through for other cleanup targets too [11:55] there's probably some stuff [11:56] right, I wanted to start with that and go incrementally [11:56] will be easier with a cleaner manifest [11:56] one upload per change? [11:56] not one per change, but for now, doing the one we know [11:56] easy enough to hit page down a few times and read the list [11:56] *shrugh* [11:57] if you miss something it's no big deal [11:57] but might as well at least *look* [11:57] :) [11:57] I see you like being a manager [11:58] umm [11:59] If you don't want to take advice, just go away and do whatever you want [11:59] sure, in case you believed I didn't look at the content already [12:03] apart from the examples which stops with the unity video, I don't see anything else to remove from the seed right now [12:03] but we'll see on the iso [12:03] (I didn't remove the example package yet, unsure if we want to do a new contest which will include g-s) === JamieBen_ is now known as JamieBennett === cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer [12:49] didrocks: couuld you do a session-migration to convert users' login session from 'ubuntu' to 'gnome'? [12:50] jbicha: session-migration is user's data focused [12:50] there's gsettings org.gnome.desktop.session session-name but I think there's also a bit stored in accountsservice [12:50] it runs in the session [12:51] don't we still want the user name to be "ubuntu"? [12:51] ok, what about the accountsservice part [12:51] (in the live, I guess) [12:51] not the user name, the session name [12:51] as in, I'm logging into 'gnome' instead of logging into 'ubuntu' (Unity) [12:52] jbicha: depending if we enable some extensions by default, but we may still want to have it named "ubuntu" [12:52] and maybe have the gnome session as in "pure gnome without extensions" [12:52] I think that should be discussed once we know from ken's survey result if any tweaking is done [12:52] ok, but what happens if someone upgrades artful and autoremoves unity7? [12:53] yeah, that's why this should be discussed, what happens in the default session, how do we handle people who want to keep unity7 and such [12:54] we tell them to re-install unity7 afterwards and choose it from the login screen [12:54] was that discussed and acked in a team meeting? [12:54] but we need to change the login session to 'gnome' for the vast majority of people to get on to our default supported desktop [12:55] We touched on this a bit yesterday, we're going to discuss again in todays meeting [12:55] we're scheduled to discuss it at today's meeting [12:55] great, let's get that discussed altogether first [12:55] I still think if we do a great amount of tweaking, we want 2 sessions [12:55] ok [12:55] one being the gnome on ubuntu experience [12:55] one being "pure gnome" without extensions [12:56] (and for only the later, "gnome" would make sense) [12:56] my impression is that we were not doing a lot of tweaking, maybe we'll see kenvandine's report this week :) [12:56] to be decided real soon : [12:56] :) [12:56] installing dash2dock or something like that is already a big change regarding default gnome experience [12:56] (same for anything to remove the legacy systray, which I saw was popular on forums) [13:04] * mdeslaur bribes kenvandine with beer for a usable desktop :) [13:04] mdeslaur, i take bribes :) [13:05] :) [13:09] I was arguing with GNOME that a dock is not such a big change after all; it's far closer to the default GNOME experience than GNOME Classic is [13:10] Classic is almost a dozen extensions that undo most of GNOME 3's design, for the benefit of RHEL users [13:12] I know that the legacy systray move is a contentious point, talking with GNOME devs living here at least [13:12] (here == Lyon) [13:20] kenvandine: could you review the merges at https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 ? [13:23] indicator-datetime's tests are a bit flaky; it was difficult for me to get all arches to build in one try [13:27] jbicha, done === fredp` is now known as fredp === fredp is now known as Guest36093 [13:39] kenvandine: could you try rebuilding https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12695995 [13:41] didrocks, jbicha, even if don't have an ubuntu tweaked session I still think we should keep the name "ubuntu" as an alias to "gnome" [13:41] "ubuntu" is "ubuntu desktop env" [13:41] jbicha, done [13:41] that's a name users recognize [13:46] +1 [13:51] we'd probably still need to do the accountsservice migration the other direction then if we keep the 'ubuntu' session-name [13:53] what do you mean? [13:56] a lot of users run 'gnome' but if the 'gnome' session is shipped in gnome-shell-vanilla or whatever not-installed-by-default-package, they'll need to be switched to 'ubuntu' [13:57] I don't think we want the default login screen to have options for all of Ubuntu, Ubuntu on X, GNOME, GNOME on X, GNOME Classic, GNOME Classic on X [13:59] why would you need to identify gnome sessions at all? don't we just need an Ubuntu session which starts gnome-shell and an unity session until it's completely removed? [13:59] jbicha, why would be have that list? [13:59] we would have "Ubuntu" [13:59] and "GNOME" for those who have that session installed [14:00] not different from zesty [14:00] just that Ubuntu would start GNOME and not Unity [14:01] jibel: There's an image building with Shell (& not Unity hopefully) now, if you want to take a look when it's done [14:01] Laney, okay [14:02] hopefully it works this time [14:02] * Laney goes for lunch [14:02] Laney, I did an installation and installed updates during installation and it worked. Probably is high thazt this image will work too [14:03] Laney, good work, enjoy the well deserved lunch :-) [14:03] seb128: the problem is upgrades! what happens when a user's login session is set to 'gnome' but if 'gnome' isn't installed? [14:03] jbicha, why would that happen? [14:03] jbicha, what binary package was providing "gnome" and why would it stop doing so? [14:04] or why would it be uninstalled on upgrades? [14:04] jbicha, the gnome session won't be removed on upgrade [14:04] I think this conversation started when I pointed out that we would need to shift users from the 'ubuntu' to 'gnome' session, but then you suggested we could keep 'ubuntu' [14:04] right [14:05] is there any issue in case we keep "ubuntu"? [14:05] I believe we would need to shift users from 'gnome' to 'ubuntu' then [14:05] is the ubuntu-gnome metapackage going away? cause that might cause some things to be removed.. [14:05] why? [14:05] users who opted in for "gnome" obviously wanted "gnome" [14:05] they are not ubuntu users following the default [14:05] so it's fine if they keep logging to "GNOME" after upgrade [14:05] why would we migrate them to "Ubuntu"? [14:06] what package would ship the 'gnome' session in that case? certainly not something we would install by default, right? [14:06] same as in zesty? [14:06] ubuntu-session would be our session that we install by default [14:06] gnome-session the GNOME one we don't install [14:06] ubuntu-session content would just be the same as the gnome one [14:07] like we don't change any packaging, just edit the ubuntu session components [14:07] one problem is that we don't install something, then it's autoremovable [14:07] well it was before [14:07] users who have gnome manually opted in for it [14:07] so it's not autoremovable [14:07] no? [14:07] the other problem is assuming 'gnome' and 'ubuntu' were different, I think we do want to push upgraders to use the regular 'ubuntu' session with extensions or whatever [14:07] like they apt get installed that session manually to get it [14:08] almost nobody manually installs 'gnome-session' [14:08] so almost nobody has "GNOME" listed as a session available [14:08] they installed either ubuntu-gnome-desktop or simply gnome-shell (or some people install 'gnome', the Debian metapackage(!) ) [14:08] which means it's a non existant problem? [14:09] I would suggest we do nothing for now and see if it turns out to be an issue in practice [14:10] also see if/how much Ubuntu and GNOME settings diverge [14:10] if they are worth being labelled differently [14:16] in any case if the "Ubuntu" session is default and if users have their config on "GNOME" which isn't available they should be sent to the default [14:16] so the end result should be what you want [14:16] even without migration [14:16] no? [14:18] hopefully, I'll test that :) [14:19] thanks [14:38] lol @ Trevinho's picture on OMG:) [14:40] heh [14:54] ChrisTownsend: Ops... 😅 [14:54] Trevinho: hahaha [15:08] Laney, 20170606.1 works as expected. [15:09] jibel: \o/ [15:09] you want to do the honours of mailing -desktop to say that? (replying to my message) [15:09] or anyone else [15:10] :DD good work Trevinho [15:10] Laney, do it :) [15:20] Laney: oh... You missed the un meeting [15:22] sry [15:22] Trevinho, it's not over yet [15:23] * didrocks downloads the new iso, can't join for bandwith's reason :p [15:25] did the gnome-shell startup thing get fixed and unity nuked again? [15:26] oy, I've got to jump on a call real quick, might be a few mins late to start the meeting. seb128, Laney - would you get us started? [15:26] I can [15:26] Beret: yes [15:27] thx seb128 [15:27] jbicha, kenvandine, it might make sense to manually merge indicator changes manually if you don't land through billeto? [15:27] jbicha, sweet thanks [15:27] willcooke, yw, do you join back during the meeting? otherwise maybe bounce me status update emails? [15:27] seb128, yeah, I'll only be a couple of mins [15:28] looks like lightdm needs updating to change the default session [15:28] seb128: I still use bileto for unity-related stuff :) [15:28] the iso kicks you to a login screen because of that [15:28] oh, it's in casper maybe [15:28] * didrocks looks [15:28] did that a longgggggggggggggg time ago for UNE [15:28] there's no override so it uses the default [15:29] set in lightdm's debian/rules [15:29] ah, that changed [15:29] jbicha, great [15:29] we were setting a file in /etc IIRC for the default session previously [15:29] could be [15:29] you can also set it in lightdm.conf [15:30] user-session=gnome [15:30] oh oh oh [15:30] it's meeting time ! [15:30] #startmeeting [15:30] Meeting started Tue Jun 6 15:30:33 2017 UTC. The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:30] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [15:30] Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu, jbicha, jamesh, jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out) [15:30] o/ [15:30] Laney: confirmed, only flavors do it in scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin now [15:30] Oh seb.... it's unmeeeting! :_D [15:30] hey [15:30] nod [15:31] seb128: can you put me at the end of the list? still trying to record the video [15:31] :D [15:31] andyrock, sure [15:31] ok, let's get started [15:31] #topic dgadomski === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: dgadomski [15:31] dgadomski, hey [15:31] hey [15:31] * debugged a printer issue and reported bug #1695884, shared logs with tkamppeter [15:31] * back to investigating do-release-upgrade conflicting with landscape [15:31] bug 1695884 in cups (Ubuntu) "usb probing malforms Epson TM-T70 label printer output" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695884 [15:31] eof [15:32] thanks dgadomski [15:32] #topic didrocks === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: didrocks [15:32] didrocks, hey [15:32] hey [15:32] * Amazon: [15:32] - UI changed drastically with 0.9, read their new user guide and content. [15:32] o/ [15:32] - Make the incoming snap multi-arch (was amd64 only previously). [15:32] - a lot of back and forth (mostly on our side) with amazon. Still blocked though. [15:32] * Snap: debugged theming issues. Found a new broken use case. Added a trello card to improve/hack around multiple themes potential issues. [15:32] o/ [15:32] * Removed unity from ubuntu seed (which was readded back and removed again now ;)). Tested on the ISO and found at least another package to temporary remove (ubuntu-session). We'll need to transition it and introduce an unity session. [15:32] . [15:32] back [15:33] EOF didrocks ? [15:33] yeah, that was my traditional "." :) [15:33] thanks didrocks [15:33] thx, just wanted to be sure [15:33] shall I drive seb128? [15:34]