=== thumper is now known as thumper-afk [02:05] Hmm, great that Chrome 59's menus are following the Ambiance theme now, but slightly strange [02:06] Being consistent with the OS feels like the app itself has lost self-consistency === thumper-afk is now known as thumper [06:00] morning folks [06:01] good morning desktoppers! [06:36] Morning koza, oSoMoN [06:41] hey duflu [07:03] good morning [07:09] oSoMoN, hey, this might need a retry https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.3.3-0ubuntu1/+build/12706388 [07:38] ricotz, huh, indeed, good [07:38] good catch [07:39] ricotz, ever seen this kind of "waiting for lock" issue when building LO ? [07:39] didrocks, hey, can you help with retrying https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.3.3-0ubuntu1/+build/12706388 ? [07:40] oSoMoN: so cancel + retry, correct? [07:40] didrocks, yes please [07:40] cancelling in progress [07:41] moin [07:42] hey Laney, on your way? [07:42] hi didrocks [07:42] yeah, on the train [07:42] oSoMoN, never seen this yet [07:42] how's it going? [07:42] didrocks, ever this that kind of deadlock? [07:42] oSoMoN: not at the time I was building openoffice [07:43] (cancelling as well I guess will take time…) [07:43] Laney: good, yourself? [07:43] decent [07:43] just crossed the Trent [07:43] oSoMoN: retried [07:43] thanks! [07:44] yw [07:44] thanks [07:48] * Laney is le warm [07:49] open the window (if you can) [07:49] then it's noise vs warm [07:49] your pick :) [07:50] can't, they need a special key [07:50] :'( [07:53] so, I guess there are some AC (which is defective)? [08:00] so I guess today is when the UK reelects Theresa May? [08:21] hey guys... [08:21] Anyone know what's wrong with fonts-noto-cjk ? [08:24] If I keep it installed, all the times I rebuild something (like any gnome app) and I run it again libfreetypes takes *seconds* (10?) to rebuild its cache (I guess)... [08:24] Strace just points at it [08:24] uninstalling it makes things better [08:28] fraid not [08:28] anyway... keep it in mind... At least when running from a jhbuild... Or my jhbuild .:o [08:29] tested in 4 artful machines. [08:30] it's not something that users do all the time [08:30] but I guess if you find time to debug it, go wild :-) [08:30] mh, not really :-D [08:31] but i guess it's because it needs a new cache for whatever reason... [08:33] not sure what invalidates the cache [08:33] jhbuild has triggers for some stuff, maybe this too [08:34] hey willcooke [08:35] morning [08:35] how goes Trevinho? [08:35] * Trevinho sorounded by monitors.... feels well... [08:35] willcooke: can I bring home one of these XPS's? I'll send it back, promise! :-D [08:35] do you have a hidpi machine? [08:35] nope... [08:35] Fine by me, but check with, erm, maybe YC? [08:35] yeah [08:35] hey willcooke [08:35] you there? [08:35] I've not, but for debugging I prefer a normal one.... [08:36] while it's nice for testing real world... [08:36] Laney, just arrived. I'll email you a map which might be useful [08:36] O_O [08:36] YC? [08:36] Trevinho, https://directory.canonical.com/orgchart/YC%20Cheng/ [08:37] Sat just outside Blackfriars for 10 mins [08:37] ah, ok I know him. [08:57] Trevinho, I guess Noto files are just huge (the smaller file is 16MB, while ubuntu-font-family files are ~KBs) [08:58] clobrano-: yeah, I noticed... [08:58] I uninstalled that for now, I'm just wondering if there's a way to avoid to recache it all the times *something* changes... [08:58] (not sure what= [09:00] hey clobrano- - how are you? [09:01] hey willcooke, I'm fine, thanks! You? [09:01] Not bad! [09:03] willcooke, great :) [10:00] Wow, bugfix finished at 6pm [10:00] That never happens [10:00] later [10:23] good morning desktopers [10:24] seb128 Morning. I saw photos. Where are you? [10:24] hey flexiondotorg, London office [10:24] :-) [10:25] You're there tomorrow as well? [10:26] yes [10:28] I'll see if I can re-organise things and come to the office tomorrow. [10:30] nice === pisi is now known as Guest41222 [14:05] https://jeremy.bicha.net/2017/06/07/gnome-tweak-tool-3-25-2/ [14:06] I'd like to discuss whether we'd like to install GNOME Tweak Tool by default, should we discuss that at a weekly meeting or what? [14:08] jbicha, on the mailing list maybe and then conclusion round in the meeting? [14:10] ok [14:12] it's a bit non-Ubuntu "pick right defaults, make things easy, don't propose too many option that confuse users" in spirit no? [14:14] yes, maybe [14:14] IMHO, we should rather have options which makes sense to us migrated to g-c-c (hopefully, talking with upstream first) [14:15] seb128: willcooke: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/hexchat [14:15] didrocks: I agree…except that it's really difficult to add things there that they don't want [14:16] for instance, I think they aren't interested in a theme selector or window button configurator [14:16] one individual told me they didn't want a theme selector because they didn't want to be blamed for bugs in 3rd party themes(!) [14:16] didrocks, +1 [14:17] * Laney nod [14:20] jbicha: the g-c-c maintainer is living 2km from my home, I'm sure I can smooth the discussion :) [14:20] but no promise :) [14:20] Laney, willcooke, http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1705.2/02534.html ? [14:23] didrocks: it might be useful to find out which features he would be interested in adding to g-c-c before someone writes the patches [14:23] jbicha: it would be even more useful to list what we think makes sense to expose to our users first :) [14:24] jbicha, I don't think we are interested in things like a window button configurator either, I don't think that's something anyone has been requesting/complaining about for years [14:24] seb128: lots of people want to be able to flip the buttons to the other side [14:24] we could do like Ubuntu GNOME and every GNOME distro and Windows and put them on the right [14:25] or we could do like Unity and put them on the left [14:25] btw, did the survey come out yet? cause that was one of the questions IIRC [14:25] either way, there are a lot of people who will think we chose wrong and would like to be able to easily change it back [14:26] Even if things are in Tweak Tool, and it's not installed by default, it's easy enough for people to get it [14:26] jbicha, how much is "lots"? I don't think we had any of our partner/oems raising that as an issue for unity [14:27] oems != users (or at least they are only one specific kind of user) [14:27] well we didn't get any IRC/list/launchpad/forum question about that for years [14:27] i don't think it bothers users much [14:28] and as Laney said, I think people motivated to move those settings will find how to install tweak tool from the archive [14:28] we should still think if there is anything that isn't exposed that we want to though [14:29] (but I agree that windows control side doesn't seem a good fit to me there) [14:29] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778677#c11 [14:29] Gnome bug 778677 in general "Integrate with Software's extension support" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [14:30] comment 11, the intent is to have GNOME Software point to Tweak Tool to configure GNOME Shell extensions [14:32] I was going to say full disabling of trackpad.. but that looks like it's already in the tentative design - https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/Mouse#Tentative_Design.. [14:34] jbicha, weird user experience to drop users to a power user tools tweak with a stack of settings, seems not really GNOMEish [14:35] we never installed ccsm by default either [14:35] seb128: I know, right? it might even be part of core GNOME in the near future, which is different from what I had been hearing from GNOME for years about it [14:35] though quite some users liked to tweak their compiz [14:35] I also think it would be ok to not show Desktop icons by default, but without a toggle switch to re-enable that old feature, it's a harder "sell" [14:38] another tricky topic [14:39] desktop icons is something lot of users are used to [14:39] why is an old feature? [14:39] it [14:39] Laney: well it wasn't in Unity8 which was the future ;) [14:39] the Nautilus maintainer doesn't like the feature [14:42] oSoMoN, have you tried running the latest chromium in a kvm guest? I get a blank initial tab nearly every time (the page loads but nothing is rendered in it) [14:42] chrisccoulson, no, I’ve done all my testing in virtualbox VMs [14:42] jbicha, unity is because they were putting something else on the desktop [14:42] and that conflicted [14:42] which GNOME is not doing [14:43] GNOME puts full-screen apps on the desktop [14:44] remember GNOME doesn't have a minimize button so it's kind of difficult to see the desktop after you've been using the computer for a few minutes [14:45] chrisccoulson, are you seeing that with all ubuntu releases as guests? [14:46] jbicha, GNOME let you configure what buttons you have, I expect us to keep the 3 we have on the left [14:46] seb128: why on the left? [14:46] because it's what Ubuntu is doing for like 7 years? [14:46] oSoMoN, the ones I've tried, yes (xenial / zesty) [14:46] and what our users are used to [14:47] that's only what Unity users are used to; most potential new users are not used to buttons on the left [14:47] chrisccoulson, I’ll set up some KVM guests and will see if I can see that [14:47] thanks [14:48] buttons on the left was pre-unity [14:48] jbicha: sure they are, os x has buttons on the left too [14:48] (10.04) [14:48] mdeslaur: you don't mean to say that most potential new Ubuntu users use OS X? ;) [14:49] some of those potential users are coming from other Linux distros too [14:49] wait, do people still use windows? :) [14:49] jbicha, you seem to expect that switch desktop shell is going to bring us a ton of new users magically over night? ;-) [14:49] kenvandine: which windows button side was preferred in the poll? [14:49] jbicha, I think Ubuntu userbase is not going to change overnight [14:50] seb128: I expect we will gain some users that switched to other GNOME distros [14:50] and lose some users to other Ubuntu flavors [14:51] some have threatened to move to other GNOME distros but I'm not sure there's solid reasoning for that… [14:52] buttons the left and top left hot corner in GNOME don't work well in my testing [14:52] better drop the top left hot corner then ;) [14:52] oh I hope we're disabling the hot corner [14:52] +1 [14:52] :) [14:52] again, isn't there a survey being done on this? [14:52] why do y'all hat the hot corner? [14:52] its unintuitive and often in my way [14:53] because it's frustrating to use [14:53] I've got a simple answer to this - put the buttons on both sides [14:53] sorry [14:53] heh [14:53] :) [14:53] chrisccoulson, nah ... center them! [14:53] lol [14:53] seb128: the maximize button doesn't really make sense except for tradition [14:53] "we went for the best compromise we could find" [14:53] I got it.. just get rid of all the buttons! who needs them anyway! [14:54] jbicha, why? how do you put gedit maximized without it? [14:54] seb128: did you read my blog post? [14:54] no, and most our users problably didn't either :p [14:55] well I had a look over it but I'm in a meeting [14:55] trying to not be too distracted [14:55] you just move gedit to the top of the screen and it maximes [14:55] if you know about that [14:55] how is m mom supposed to grok that ? [14:55] *my mom [14:56] I use the maximize button a lot. It's significantly more discoverable than either of the other 2 options [14:56] yeah [14:56] wow, I never knew dragging a window to the top would maximize it [14:56] mdeslaur: works the same way on Windows :) [14:57] you can even right click on the title bar to maximize [14:57] why bother when you have a cool maximize button? :) [14:57] I only trigger that maximize-on-top by error when I don't want to use it in fact [14:57] so there are a lot of ways to do it [14:57] and the maximize button works great with a touch screen :) [14:57] mdeslaur: so do 2 of the 3 options we've mentioned [14:57] jbicha, windows has the button still no? [14:58] (the 3rd option is double-clicking the titlebar) [15:02] in my opinion, the dedicated maximize button is the slowest way to maximize a window so I end up never using it [15:02] I only use that [15:03] I can't get used to the dnd to top and right click on decoration is not something I use [15:03] anyway it doesn't use much space [15:03] and windows has it [15:05] well my opinion anyway, we should probably discuss that on the list as well [15:05] with current Ambiance, it's a very small button to click Maximize [15:05] I kinda want to see what the poll numbers say about preferred placement first… [15:06] 7 years ago, left buttons weren't popular: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-window-buttons-staying-left-but-will-be-switching-order [15:06] change wasn't very popular [15:06] and you want to change it again === pisi is now known as Guest79373 === Guest79373 is now known as pisi0 [15:07] change interfaces is never popular [15:08] yeah ... so just dont do it ;) [15:09] lol.. if we followed that we also wouldn't be moving to GNOME... err.. well we would have never switched so I guess we would still be on GNOME.. [15:10] gQuigs: and the window buttons would have stayed on the right! :) === ratliff_ is now known as ratliff [15:13] Did Ubuntu developers discuss GNOME 3.26? Which is coming with ubuntu 17.10, 3.24 or 3.26? [15:13] here's some bugs with the redesigned gnome-control-center (targeted for 3.26): https://bicha.net/i/gnome-control-center-alt-ambiance-left.png [15:13] pisi0, not yet === koza is now known as koza|away [16:40] chrisccoulson, I’m seeing the blank page in a xenial guest indeed, looks like it’s doing that only on chrome://welcome, other chrome:// pages are fine [16:42] oSoMoN, it does it everywhere with me - eg, if I launch it with a URL on the commandline [16:45] mmm, indeed [16:45] same here [16:46] but it’s only the first tab that’s affected, others are fine [16:47] in fact the first page render in the first tab, because then if I browse to a different URL in that same tab the page renders fine [16:49] this is annoying [17:14] chrisccoulson, latest release of chrome is not affected [17:53] is there an example of a bug with gnome bugtracker linked to launchpad/ [17:53] ? [17:55] xnox: when I try to associate one I get an error message "Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL" [17:55] xnox: I'm not sure I understand your question, but maybe https://bugzilla.gnome.org/764029 [17:55] Gnome bug 764029 in general "goa-daemon not stopped on logout, and gnome-keyring unusable on next log in" [Critical,New] [17:56] ooh ooh i found one [17:56] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140751#c27 [17:56] Mozilla bug 140751 in General "Integrate Mozilla with KDE" [Normal,New] [17:56] and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/494067 [17:56] Ubuntu bug 494067 in XULRunner "Provide better Firefox KDE integration" [Medium,Confirmed] [17:58] that's mozilla.org not gnome.org [17:58] are you sure you found what you wanted? :) [18:51] is there a list of the proposed default extensions anywhere? [18:51] I've seen the omgubuntu article [18:51] but I'm not aware of a definitive list if there is one yet [19:06] Beret, the poll results will be published real soon [19:07] ok [19:49] hi everyone [19:50] can anyone tell me how the greeter frontend is launched when the user locks his/her session? [19:52] I know that there must be some comm on com.canonical.Unity via DBus. [19:52] However, I don't see clearly how the switch to the greeter (for locking the screen) happens. [19:53] does that lockscreen greeter process run as the logged-in user? Or under the lightdm account? [19:54] sunweaver: the user's lock screen is drawn by unity itself inside the session, it doesn't use the greeter [19:54] sunweaver: maybe this discussion is helpful? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1663157 [19:54] Ubuntu bug 1663157 in lightdm (Ubuntu Artful) "Guest session processes are not confined in 16.10 and newer releases" [High,In progress] [19:55] mdeslaur: what code portion do I find the lock screen drawing in? [19:55] the point is... [19:56] sunweaver: the unity source package: [19:56] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity [19:56] I wonder how the indicator-session indicator could launch a lock screen in non-Unity without the greeter. [19:56] currently I get a "This screen is locked" lock screen. You should be redirected to the unlock page. [19:57] note, I have a variant of the unity-greeter running on Debian and use patched indicators in a MATE session [19:57] what screensaver does MATE use? [19:57] mate-screensaver [19:58] but I thought it would be nice having a lockscreen that resemble the look'n'feel of the greeter. [19:58] I'll study the above URLs tomorrow. [19:58] Thanks you!!! === JanC_ is now known as JanC [21:06] robert_ancell: good morning, it looks like ken pushed your gnome-shell ubuntu5 change to bzr, do you want to rebase and push your ubuntu6 there? [21:07] we should update the Vcs field [21:07] jbicha, oh, I wasn't aware it was in bzr [21:08] maybe it will be in git later this year… :) [21:11] jbicha, both fixed [21:11] Yeah, I think we're going to have to consider packaging branches at some point [21:25] hmm, I've gotten very used to the hotcorner, it will take some time for me to get used to it disabled [21:33] jbicha, robert_ancell, heya [21:33] what is the state of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/0.36.3-1~git1 [21:35] jdstrand, ^ [21:35] Stuck in NEW queue [21:35] ricotz, hey [21:35] ricotz: someone from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members needs to let it through the new queue [21:36] I asked in #ubuntu-release yesterday but no response [21:36] heh, yeah, that is clear to me ;) [21:36] was more aiming for the reason why [21:36] I'd also like to start the evolution transition [21:37] alright [21:37] some people (who?) are at a sprint this week [21:37] ricotz, yeah, It generally is just people getting busy. There's really no reason why Vala should be a complex change [21:40] jbicha, where is the best place to find the list of official GNOME apps? [21:40] I'm writing a mailing list post to propose GNOME Maps [21:40] robert_ancell, yeah, that is fine, in this case the story is a bit longer even ;) === cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer === lan3y is now known as Laney [23:37] robert_ancell: the jhbuild modulesets are the official list from GNOME's Release Team [23:37] https://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets/gnome-suites-core-3.26.modules [23:38] https://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets [23:38] jbicha, thanks, I though that was the case [23:38] see also this post from a year ago: https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2016/09/21/gnome-3-22-core-apps/ [23:39] some of the statements in that post are controversial but it's still useful in a way [23:39] I was thinking about changing the ubuntu-desktop seed to more closely relate to the jhbuild modulesets [23:40] I had done that to some degree with ubuntu-gnome's seed [23:41] jbicha, I think that's the trend we should follow, but I guess we have to consider the workload of maintaining that many apps in an official capacity. [23:42] I think since the core apps have very good design they're generally uncontrovercial to provide to users by default. [23:44] What are the main ones we're missing? Photos (replace Shotwell?), Weather, Clocks, Boxes (I think this is not essential) [23:44] several of the missing GNOME Core apps are because Ubuntu currently has a replacement (Shotwell, rhythmbox, gucharmap, gnome-system-log) [23:44] Boxes is an odd app that I'd rather not ship unless someone does more maintenance of it on Ubuntu [23:45] That's too much of a power-user app [23:45] Let them install it manually [23:45] yes [23:45] As long as the replacements for gucharmap and gnome-system-log are better they should be easy to switch to [23:45] Ubuntu GNOME did not include gnome-clocks because I thought bug 1583660 was bad for that kind of app [23:45] bug 1583660 in GNOME Clocks "Alarms should still work even when app is closed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583660 [23:46] That shouldn't be too hard to fix [23:46] robert_ancell: that would be great! I think gnome-todo has a background service now that you could borrow from if needed [23:46] That wasn't me volunteering :) [23:47] suddenly, I can't hear you any more ;) [23:47] But we should raise it as a Trello task on the backlog/proposed [23:47] I'm going to propose Weather on the desktop list [23:49] otherwise, clocks is pretty useful too