=== JanC_ is now known as JanC === maclin1 is now known as maclin [06:51] good morning [06:53] good morning desktoppers [06:54] salut oSoMoN [06:54] salut didrocks [07:02] morning [07:02] salut jibel [07:04] salut jibel === koza|away is now known as koza [07:29] hey desktopers [07:30] any chance to get vala accepted https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/0.36.3-1~git1 [07:35] hey ricotz [07:36] oSoMoN, hi [07:45] good morning desktopers [07:45] hi seb128 [07:45] hey jamesh, how are you? [07:46] Hi seb128, ricotz, oSoMoN, jamesh, didrocks, jibel [07:46] hey seb128, duflu, jamesh [07:46] Hello world [07:46] good. My brother was visiting for the weekend (he's on a six month contract working in Cairns) [07:46] so of course he was complaining about how cold it is here ... [07:50] hey duflu, jamesh [08:00] morning all [08:03] hey willcooke [08:04] morning willcooke [08:04] hey [08:07] hey oSoMoN willcooke Laney [08:07] hey duflu [08:08] hi Laney [08:08] hey Laney [08:08] did everybody had a good w.e? [08:09] * willcooke -> sunburnt [08:09] Morning willcooke, Laney [08:10] willcooke, played golf? [08:10] seb128, yeah, plus some gardening [08:10] it was really windy so I didnt realise the sun was so strong [08:10] OK, silly question: What Intel architecture does ILK stand for? It must be in the _past_ despite sounding like one that's in the future.... [08:12] duflu, at a guess I'd say the LK bit of ILK is probably "lake" [08:12] willcooke: Yes but it must be in the past. The only I-Lake appears to be in the future :) [08:13] duflu, Ironlake, 2009? [08:13] willcooke: Winner! Probably... thanks [08:13] duflu, not sure that's a CPU.. Wikipedia says "Gfx controller and memory controller hub" [08:14] willcooke: Yes, still correct. That's why I could not find it. This doc mixes and matches all the codewords [08:14] ah :) [08:15] hey seb128 oSoMoN didrocks duflu willcooke [08:15] what's new? [08:15] [08:16] * Laney nods gravely [08:16] I had an excellent week-end, went camping with friends, got loads of sun, beer, BBQ and fun with kids, lost track of time until late in the evening yesterday [08:16] how about you seb128? [08:16] oSoMoN, awesome! [08:17] Yesterday I made this work: https://www.banggood.com/433Mhz-Decoding-Transceiver-USB-Transfer-Frequency-Module-For-Smart-Home-p-1123784.html [08:17] willcooke: Actually that makes sense. Not long after ILK they started being properly integrated GPUs, so referred to by the CPU arch [08:17] duflu, ahh, right - so that was the last of the "discrete" gfx cards? [08:18] willcooke: Yes, will discretely separate on the motherboard [08:18] -will +well, [08:42] seb128, Laney - I've got a call with AWS tomorrow which looks like it will overlap with the start of the meeting. Would one of you be able to drive this week please? [08:44] good morning my fellow desktoppers [08:44] _) [08:44] good morning andyrock [08:45] morning andyrock [08:49] willcooke: ok [08:49] hi andyrock [08:49] you good? [08:49] elaction night in italy (for majors but still) [08:49] so a bit tired :D [08:49] you? [08:54] i'm good! [08:54] got lots of beans and rhubarb and some gooseberries off the allotment yesterday ;-) [08:56] Laney: time for a cake [08:56] yeah need to do something more interesting than fool [08:57] I mean it's time for you to prepare a rhubarb cake :D [08:57] it is time [08:57] RIGHT NOW [08:57] BYE! [08:57] anything you want but rhubarb please :) [08:58] Hey people... [08:58] Back in the European countryside... :-| [08:58] you don't know what you're missing [08:59] hey Trevinho [08:59] you don't fool me with that face [08:59] I saw your pictures [08:59] you love being back [08:59] and rightly so! [08:59] ♥ [08:59] Laney: well, rhubarb's bitterness first ;) [08:59] Trevinho moves with the summer [09:00] now that in Italy is summer is back again [09:00] 1 stick of rhubarb to 1 kg of sugar :) [09:00] haha [09:00] something like that [09:01] just to hide the taste :p [09:01] Laney: Ahahahahah... Well just because I can get good pizza again :-D [09:01] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/A0FfyquJ/20170611_212326.jpg [09:01] andyrock: exactly... ;-) [09:02] willcooke, Laney, I can do as well for the meeting [09:02] Laney, as you prefer [09:02] seb128: hi seb128 [09:02] hey andyrock Trevinho [09:02] Trevinho, had a good trip? happy to be back on the old continent? [09:02] willcooke: seb128 btw this is the ppa https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/+archive/ubuntu/software-properties-lp [09:02] it should be stable enough [09:03] :D [09:03] I moved the switch in updates panel [09:03] nice andyrock, thanks [09:03] the password is user1@ubuntu.com - password1 - otp 1111 [09:03] andyrock, we have the livepatch meeting this week too - so can you arrange a demo? [09:04] seb128: very good trip (China airways has an amazing airbus a350-900, never had a such silent flight [really I didn't either noticed we were taking off].. With legs support) [09:04] there are no notifications yet but I guess yes [09:04] this should work [09:04] andyrock, ah, nice [09:05] seb128: and... Staying in Rome for 2 days was great.... I love that city. Not sure how long I'll stick to my place tho :-) [09:05] I've to remove a couple of hacks, but from the user point of view should be the same [09:09] Trevinho, :-) [09:16] seb128: you can do the next one ;-) [09:16] did you get back ok & have a good weekend? [09:18] Laney, thanks, let's do a rotation, I do it next time there is one to lead :-) [09:18] yeah, trip back was fine [09:18] 1 hour from office to airport gate [09:18] duflu, I don't think screen not blanking during video playback is a duplicate of bug 1692762 [09:18] bug 1692762 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[screensaver] Screen never blanks in Gnome Shell when using LightDM" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692762 [09:18] I was back home unpa [09:19] duflu, in my case I am using gdm [09:19] covfefe? [09:19] I was back home unpacked/showered by 19:30 [09:19] nice [09:19] jibel: Ah, yes there was another bug for GDM..... [09:19] Somewhere [09:19] w.e was nice, friends over on saturday, walk in the wood to avoid the heat yesterday, then french open conclusion on tv [09:19] how was your w.e? [09:20] jibel: Yeah sorry, it's opposite. I'll update your bug with additional thoughts [09:21] bug 1647213 maybe ? [09:21] bug 1647213 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[screensaver] Automatic screen lock never locks or blanks the screen using Gnome Shell and GDM" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647213 [09:21] but screen blanking works fine, just video playback is a problem [09:22] seb128: got some new house plants, went to a new pasta restaurant, allotment, climbing [09:22] good weekend! [09:25] jibel, duflu: I’ll look into bug #1697373 , it could very well be that chrom[e|ium] is not using the appropriate d-bus iface to request inhibiting screen blanking [09:25] bug 1697373 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Do not dim/lock the screen when a video is playing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697373 [09:25] oSoMoN, okay, let me know if you need more info [09:25] oSoMoN, yes. Just commented on it. We should keep the topic in the bug... [09:30] oSoMoN: here's the relevant code: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/master/device/power_save_blocker/power_save_blocker_x11.cc [09:30] it's using the org.freedesktop.Screensaver and org.freedesktop.PowerManagement interfaces [09:32] jamesh, ack, I was thinking that maybe PowerSaveBlocker::Delegate::SelectAPI() incorrectly detects the DE and selects the wrong API, but need to look further into it to confirm [09:34] oSoMoN: except that function seems to treat Unity and GNOME the same [09:35] Seems that DPMSEnabled() depends on an XDisplay. So Xwayland would need to be OK with providing DPMS [09:35] else NO_API [09:36] Yes, 'xset dpms ...' commands fail on Wayland [09:36] Even with Xwayland [09:38] and 'xset q' says "Display is not capable of DPMS" [09:38] xdpyinfo would give you the list of supported extensions [09:39] jamesh: Yes, but the extension being present is not the same as the Xwayland display being capable :) [09:39] Xwayland loads the DPMS extension and says "no" [09:40] ah. [09:50] oSoMoN: Upstream Xorg/Xwayland is different, but Ubuntu seems to use dpmsstubs.c for Xwayland... [09:50] Bool [09:50] DPMSSupported(void) [09:50] { [09:50] return FALSE; [09:50] } [10:11] ah man, forgot to bring my headphones to the library [10:12] Sorry, I'll keep it down [10:12] Or make dinner [12:13] ok, NOW I'm on Shell [12:58] keep looking top right for the time :( [13:00] I keep looking on the wrong monitor for the time [13:01] not seen it on multiple monitors yet [13:02] with the extension to move it to the top right it's okay. I miss the world clock in the indicator though. [13:04] Laney, it's not great on multiple monitors. Particularly when you're working on the secondary screen, with application menus on the other monitor [13:07] jibel, https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/697/panel-world-clock/ might work? [13:08] gnome-clocks can add several locations/timezones to date/time dropdown [13:08] chrisccoulson, hi [13:10] ricotz, how? I tried but nothing appears in the indicator [13:11] jibel, I simply added some locations in gnome-clocks and then they appear in g-s [13:12] hi ricotz [13:12] same goes for gnome-weather [13:13] chrisccoulson, did you notice the ubufox proposals? [13:13] ricotz, yeah [13:13] I'm getting rid of that though [13:13] chrisccoulson, I see [13:14] chrisccoulson, also *please* answer even if it is days later [13:14] adding locations to gnome-clocks doesn't add anything and gnome-clocks does not even start on a fresh installation [13:15] jibel, oh, sounds like dependency missing [13:15] seb128, and the extension fails to run [13:15] :-/ [13:15] do you get any error trying to start gnome-clocks? [13:16] seb128, no [13:16] just hanging? [13:16] seb128, it returns immediately and nothing printed on the console [13:16] is there any corresponding process already started? [13:17] seb128, hold on, it was already running [13:17] :-) [13:17] killed and restart and it works [13:17] including adding locations to the shell? [13:18] seb128, I can add locations to the clocks but are the location supposed to be shown somewhere else? [13:19] seb128, I mean in the panel for instance [13:19] in the calendar applet from whell [13:19] shell [13:19] nope [13:22] worth reporting an upstream bug then I guess [13:23] jibel, it's supposed to be like in https://bug745111.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=297802 [13:24] well that bug shows a RTL issue but the the items are at the bottom so it gives an idea how it should be [13:26] oSoMoN, have you tried running the latest chromium on x86 too? I didn't try that last week with the other bug, but I just tried it now. It crashes on startup on every release except zesty for me [13:28] seb128, right, that's what I expect too but there is nothing below the calendar [13:29] jibel, try maybe to desactivate the extension that move the clock just in case? [13:29] and did you try to restart the session/shell§? [13:30] i'll reboot again after my meeting [13:38] chrisccoulson, no I hadn’t :/ thanks for reporting [13:46] seb128: perhaps users do prefer window buttons on the right? [13:46] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/12/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-poll-results/ [13:46] jbicha, hey [13:47] jbicha, you never give up do you :-) [13:47] well you said you thought our users preferred left? [13:48] lol [13:48] it's close [13:49] imo with apps using the gtkheaderbar, it can be a little awkward with the controls on the left, for some apps [13:58] jbicha, I said they might, also I'm not convinced that readers for that website are an accurate representation of the Ubuntu userbase but we don't really have other data or easy ways to get those [13:59] yeah, survey's are really tough [13:59] the users that are mostly likely to complete them are the ones that want change [13:59] jbicha, in any case I don't strongly care either way, I just don't like the way people hate on what Ubuntu has been doing and are so eager to kill/undo things we have been doing just for the sake of doing like others are doing (which isn't a sign of better) [14:00] seb128, my only argument for moving them is it can feel weird for some apps that utilize the headerbar [14:00] like gnome-software puts a status icon on the top left while it's busy [14:00] yeah [14:01] and to stop it, it looks like the maximise [14:01] similar [14:01] apps like these assume the controls on the right [14:01] it's more standard with other OSes on the right and left creates some bugs [14:01] it's just a change for our users [14:01] yeah, it'll be hard for me to get used to moving them to the right myself :) [14:02] but personally i think we'd be better off moving them again [14:02] tricky balance to annoy your existing users to please potential new ones that you might end up not getting [14:02] yeah [14:02] That apps' assumption is wrong in any case. No matter what is default, buttons on left should be a supported option and not cause confusion. [14:02] right [14:02] true [14:04] seb128: I think caribou is missing a subscription by ~desktop-packages for its MIR> bug 1685867 [14:04] bug 1685867 in caribou (Ubuntu) "[MIR] caribou" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685867 [14:04] the only app i recall seeing that seemed awkward with the buttons on the left was gnome-software [14:04] but there might be others [14:05] seb128: but also, I think there should be some work done to merge ~desktop-bugs and ~desktop-packages, since both are meant to just track which packages you want to get the bugs for -- anything in main for the desktop team should pretty obviously be tracked. [14:06] cyphermox, hey, we use ~desktop-bugs afaik [14:08] shrug [14:08] wth [14:08] I don't find the team in the list [14:08] add myself as admin [14:09] refresh [14:09] and now the team is subscribed [14:09] well, according to all doc in the MIR team and according to the "master list" it's ~desktop-packages [14:09] ta [14:09] well it's not me (I think?) [14:09] given a USB key pre-loaded with an Ubuntu daily image - is there a way to determine which daily it is by chance? [14:09] any metadata anywhere that would give that away? [14:09] cyphermox, where is the page that lists the official team? [14:10] Beret: .disk/info [14:10] we were confused by this a few weeks ago [14:10] cyphermox, thanks [14:10] seb128: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html [14:11] that comes from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/view/head:/package-subscribers#L107 [14:13] seb128: also, sorry, I only pick on you because you're the last admin reachable on that list, I do realise this is old stuff, hence why the need to merge both lists [14:13] cf. https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+members#active [14:14] cyphermox, it's not anyone was still looking to those report pages :p [14:14] seb128: well, the team list report is not all that interesting [14:15] the point is just that anything in main should have some team responsible for, and getting the bug mail [14:15] cyphermox, anyway we have been using ~desktop-bugs mostly for those in recent cycles I think [14:16] at least I did use that one and got often pinged to do the subscription [14:16] dunno who just did the caribou one [14:16] kenvandine? [14:16] nope [14:16] at least not today [14:16] i think i did some a few weeks ago [14:17] dunno who did then [14:17] magic [14:19] I did caribou on 11 May [14:19] gnome-tweak-tool's headerbar is a bit odd with 3 window buttons on the left (it increases the size of the left sidebar) [14:20] could be on my request [14:20] it was on our MIR list, so probably [14:20] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/783557 [14:20] Gnome bug 783557 in shell "3.26 redesign: left window buttons aren't on the left" [Normal,New] [14:20] I must have failed to follow through asking for the other team's subscription [14:21] should we do a script to move everything over from desktop-bugs to desktop-packages? [14:21] Laney, k, dunno why Steve commented on the bug saying it's not done [14:21] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/caribou/+subscriptions lists it [14:21] Laney: the other way around, I think [14:21] Laney, desktop-bugs is the right one no? [14:21] since you already use desktop-bugs, and it has more admins, etc. [14:21] I don't know what right means [14:22] I thought you were saying that right means the ones the reports look at [14:22] I think desktop-bugs is the one we have been historically using [14:22] not that it really matters [14:22] well it's the one I'm admin of, so the only one I could have used :p [14:22] maybe desktop-bugs is not used by component-mismatches? [14:22] but I don't care strongly either way if somebody wants to reverse that [14:23] jbicha, component-mismatches uses teams for what? [14:23] or packages? [14:23] for what? [14:23] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html [14:23] I didn't even know component-mismatches cares about bugs subscribers [14:23] jbicha: that's just code, trivial to change. [14:24] sure [14:24] I like how people reply to questions with urls [14:24] not sure if I should feel offended by the suggestion I don't know the url of component mismatch ;-) [14:24] seb128: it shows some packages as unsubscribed if it doesn't find one of the right teams subscribed [14:25] jbicha, I don't think those categories matter much [14:25] but yeah we should probably make it look at the right set [14:25] we could just ask slangasek what it was exactly that he saw; I was just guessing [14:25] on e.u.c the package set is "ubuntu-desktop" [14:25] so we do have mismatches between different tools and reports [14:25] and it's confusing [14:26] but that "team mapping" things is poorly defined [14:26] or documented [14:26] there's a point to having something separate from the ~ubuntu-desktop and whatever are MIRed packages. [14:27] the packageset is different from the 'owner' [14:27] indeed. [14:27] what's the difference? [14:27] upload rights [14:27] vs canonical's support commitment [14:28] which one define the group of packages we care about? [14:28] oSoMoN, Cr. in Artful - I can't move the window with touch. Works elsewhere. Any ideas? [14:28] because imho we want to look at the same set of packages for e.u.c and component mismatch [14:28] no? [14:29] dunno [14:29] main / universe is a support thing [14:29] so it probably makes sense for component mismatches [14:30] and I think errors.ubuntu.com can look at team subscribers already [14:30] indeed [14:31] maybe you do want both there [14:31] I don't know, I'm a bit confused now [14:31] like: what are the biggest problems in the packages my team supports commercially? and: what are the biggest problems I can directly fix? [14:31] I think we want one way to list the packages we "care about" [14:31] and know about issues in that list [14:32] you can answer both with the options available on errors currently [14:32] errors, component mismatch, release targetted bugs, etc [14:33] right [14:33] well, then we need to decide on what we standardize between desktop-packages and desktop-bugs [14:33] does anyone know the history of why we got a second one [14:33] and how they have been used? [14:33] to me the one has always been ~desktop-bugs [14:34] pedro is the owner of the other one [14:34] and it has only 4 members [14:34] I think he might have created it to make qa reports for desktop [14:35] no clue [14:35] the story that was relayed to me was that there was a disagreement in what the packages should be that desktop looks at. [14:35] that's probably true :-) [14:35] https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+related-packages is empty [14:36] I guess that page is not what tells you what packages you are subscribed to? [14:36] nope [14:36] ah [14:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+packagebugs [14:36] in that sense, having a split between what you use to get mail vs. what you care about makes "some" sense, but nothing that couldn't be achieved by mail filters either [14:37] yeah [14:37] anyway ~desktop-packages has things that are not owned by use [14:38] how so? [14:38] because all that is in there is what the desktop team is supposed to be responsible for supporting [14:38] us [14:38] no, ~desktop-bugs is [14:38] not according to the MIR team doc. [14:38] it's a wiki [14:39] whoever edited that got it wrong [14:39] we are not maintaining e.g quilt [14:39] or texinfo [14:39] or whomever forgot to update things after changing the team? [14:39] could be [14:39] or iputils [14:40] could also be that you inherited quilt/texinfo at some point because it was pulled in by something else the desktop needed. [14:40] because at this point, we're looking at hysterical data, and no amount of trying to reason it will bear much fruit [14:40] (ie. I don't know, I wasn't there) [14:41] nice try but you are not dumping those of us no :p) [14:41] and also, I understand it might not make sense to you, but that's the current state of things, if things need to be shuffled around, then that would be up to managers to get to agree about it. [14:42] there's a bit of a fiction about it all isn't there [14:42] even if it says quilt, nobody really thinks that the desktop team maintains that [14:42] Laney: there's a lot of things which just always happen to be grey area too [14:43] Laney: in theory, it means the desktop team would be responsible for it, if it's in that list [14:43] in any case those list have a stack of old deprecated-moved-out-of-main things or even deleted from current ubuntu [14:43] like xchat-gnome [14:43] ie. on rls-aa-(incoming|tracking) it would show "desktop-packages", and some people might skip over that section [14:43] it's a lot like copyright review [14:43] we should probably clean whatever list we decide we want to use [14:43] you get things in shape for the start [14:43] and then nobody cares [14:44] yeah [14:44] Laney: of course [14:44] until somebody comes back to you saying that the some bug is sorted under your section on some reports [14:44] but I'm peanut gallery so I should stop commenting :-) [14:44] seb128: well, then we're also all kind of intelligent enough to get to a consensus. [14:45] ie. quilt may be listed there, but someone would either fix it regarless of the team, or more likely, correctly deem it as not being release critical? [14:46] you could use that argument for any package and argue that those lists are useless [14:46] (which I mostly think they are) [14:46] I don't think so. It helps to make sure it's easy for you to look at the bugs you care about in late release, for instance [14:46] when looking at rls-aa [14:46] (except that people sometime do come telling us that we need to fix something because it's sorted under our section) [14:46] or when you work on component-mismatches, NBS, etc. [14:47] I wouldn't work on those things by owner [14:47] would for actual bugs though, so maybe it has some value there [14:48] ~desktop-packages is wrong in any case [14:48] it lists things like amarok [14:48] Laney: for some people it makes it easy to target just the things that have the biggest effect for their team. [14:48] which we never owned/touched [14:48] or akonadi [14:48] please use ~desktop-bugs [14:48] we can add things to it if you feel like it's missing components [14:49] but it's the list we maintained [14:49] it's not up to me to fix this, sorry [14:49] who is it? [14:49] can you forward to whatever is right? [14:49]