[02:21] <RAOF> Hey, now that we're on the hook for GNOME Shell, could we please implement some sort of attempt at focus-stealing-prevention, rather than the current approach of ”it's hard, let's go shopping”?
[02:28] <duflu> RAOF: I know that's your pet peve. Mine is the lack of precision in libinput... Generally though we're keen to not do the development downstream so please feel free to remind upstream.
[02:35] <jamesh> duflu: with that xwayland DPMS issue that came up last night, would there be any downside to xwayland claiming to support DPMS and then doing nothing?
[02:36] <jamesh> the X11 extension provides no way for clients to query the state, after all
[02:36] <duflu> jamesh: Yes, the downside is that diagnostic tools like xset would then report it's working and the screen would still blank when it shouldn't
[02:37] <jamesh> but would you want legacy apps causing the screen to blank?
[02:37] <duflu> jamesh, We implemented it in Xmir. Just need to find (or wait for) some sensible wayland API to implement it
[02:37] <duflu> jamesh: Yes. Anything that can blank the screen in Unity7 right now isn't causing us pain
[02:38] <duflu> jamesh: My analysis is still a little bit of a guess. Would be useful to debug and confirm still
[02:38] <jamesh> duflu: I think you are correct, looking at that part of the chromium source
[02:39] <jamesh> for Chromium in particular, it doesn't seem to do anything with the DPMS extension other than query whether the screen supports it
[02:40] <jamesh> it then uses completely different means to prevent blanking
[02:40] <jamesh> which is a little weird
[02:40] <duflu> jamesh: Oh....
[02:41] <duflu> jamesh: So it uses a screensaver API to block it?
[02:41] <jamesh> duflu: for GNOME and Unity, it is talking to org.gnome.SessionManager on D-Bus
[02:41] <jamesh> but it won't even attempt that if DPMSCapable() is false
[02:42] <duflu> jamesh: Yeah that's weird. Sounds like a fix might go in Chromium. But not Xwayland
[02:42] <jamesh> could probably verify with an LD_PRELOAD hack
[02:42] <duflu> Because returning false when you don't support it is absolutely right
[04:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, that annoys me too...
[04:55] <robert_ancell> (the focus thing)
[04:56] <robert_ancell> jamesh, would you be interested on working on some gnome-software bugs?
[04:56] <jamesh> robert_ancell: sure.  What needs looking at?
[04:57] <robert_ancell> jamesh, basically what's in the Trello board with the gnome-software tag
[04:57] <jamesh> okay
[04:58] <robert_ancell> jamesh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1690280 might be a good one to start with
[04:59] <robert_ancell> It needs a design to be worked out for warning the user appropriately of the risk of a classic snap
[04:59] <robert_ancell> Then work with gnome-software upstream to make that work
[05:00] <robert_ancell> And finally some backporting to older releases
[05:00] <robert_ancell> But there's a patch in the bug report which does the actual installing
[05:00] <robert_ancell> But let me know if anything else looks interesting. A lot of them have some work done but happy to handover
[05:11]  * robert_ancell -> EOD
[05:58] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[05:59] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[06:08] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:47] <didrocks> good morning
[07:01] <jibel> morning
[07:47] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, jibel, et seb128 ! comment allez-vous ?
[07:47] <didrocks> ça va pitti, et toi ?
[07:48] <pitti> ça va bien ! j'aime le temps d'été :)
[07:48] <didrocks> oui, pareil ici, c'est agréable :)
[07:51] <andyrock> morning!
[08:00] <oSoMoN> willcooke, good morning. Just saw your question about chromium window in artful and touch, sorry I missed it yesterday
[08:00] <oSoMoN> no idea what that could be though
[08:01] <oSoMoN> does it have client-side decorations, or a regular title bar?
[08:03] <duflu> Confusingly, when I was fixing my first light-themes bug I found gtk likes to use 'csd' to refer to the decorations that are actually server side decorations. The client side decorations where in the CSS that was /not/ called 'csd' :)
[08:03] <Laney> moin
[08:03] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:04] <duflu> -where + were
[08:04] <oSoMoN> good morning Laney, seb128
[08:04] <seb128> and bbiab, I need to move, be back in 10min or so
[08:04] <duflu> 'lo
[08:06] <jibel> bonjour pitti! ça va bien, moi aussi j'aime le temps estival :)
[08:06] <jibel> (new word for you maybe 'estival') ;)
[08:07] <willcooke> morning all
[08:08] <pitti> jibel: c'est très proche de "festival" :-)
[08:09] <willcooke> oSoMoN, nw!  Regular title bar.  Also I noticed Firefox is the same.  And it doesn't give the correct hints to the shell to show the OSK when needed.
[08:09] <willcooke> oSoMoN, Shall I log some bugs?
[08:09] <oSoMoN> willcooke, please do
[08:16] <jibel> pitti, indeed. Un festival estival! ;)
[08:16] <pitti> jibel: 👍
[08:24] <Laney> hey pitti
[08:24] <pitti> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[08:26] <seb128> back
[08:27] <Laney> pitti: nicht schlecht, danke - gestern habe ich zu shell gewechselt (?????)
[08:27] <seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
[08:27] <pitti> Laney: sehr gut!
[08:28] <pitti> Laney: I tried to switch to Shell like three times, and switched back as it was wasting so much screen space compared to unity..
[08:28] <pitti> seb128: sehr gut, danke! und dir und dem Mini-Seb?
[08:29] <seb128> duflu, pittis, auch sehr gut, maar ein bisschen müde
[08:30] <duflu> uh, wie bitte?
[08:30] <duflu> :)
[08:30] <duflu> Oh, right
[08:30] <pitti> mauvais sommeil?
[08:34] <duflu> pitti, thanks for the quick turnaround
[08:34] <duflu> and sorry my German is too rust
[08:34] <duflu> rusty
[08:34] <pitti> you're welcome
[08:36] <koza> morning
[08:40] <Laney> syncpackage: Error: The source package 'gilb2.0' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in experimental, experimental-security, experimental-updates or experimental-proposed
[08:40] <Laney> that message made me WAT on two counts
[08:40] <pitti> what's the other count?
[08:41] <willcooke> oSoMoN, is this the right place for bugs?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium
[08:41] <Laney> First one is that glib2.0 didn't exist when I knew it did :-)
[08:41] <pitti> ah, I thought the first count was the typo
[08:41] <oSoMoN> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser
[08:41] <Laney> and the second one is the concept of experimental{-security,-updates,-proposed}
[08:41] <Laney> yeah
[08:41] <pitti> oh, indeed :)
[08:41] <Laney> took me some seconds to see it
[08:41] <willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
[08:42] <Laney> ubuntu-bug chromium-browser!
[08:42] <Laney> oh that reminds me that u-d-t FTBFSed
[08:42] <Laney> should probably fix that
[08:43] <oSoMoN> right, ubuntu-bug is preferred
[08:43] <Laney> launchpad doesn't mail for sync ftbfses and britney didn't tell me it was stuck in proposed either
[08:43] <Laney> such bugs
[08:53] <willcooke> urgh
[08:53] <willcooke> Laney, "xdg-open: no method available for opening https://bugs.fooooooooo"
[08:54] <willcooke> wait
[08:54] <seb128> willcooke, what did you do this time!
[08:55] <willcooke> humm.  I installed Chrome.  Then it asked if it could be the default, and I said yes
[08:55] <willcooke> now restting firefox to be the default and trying again
[08:55] <willcooke> nope
[08:55] <willcooke> same problem
[08:55] <seb128> artful?
[08:55] <willcooke> ya
[08:58] <seb128> willcooke, $  xdg-settings get default-web-browser
[08:58] <seb128> ?
[08:58] <seb128> $ xdg-settings get default-url-scheme-handler https
[09:00] <Laney> thx seb128
[09:01] <seb128> Laney, for?
[09:02] <Laney> handling the query
[09:02] <willcooke> Laney, google-chrome.desktop
[09:02] <seb128> yw I guess? :-)
[09:02] <willcooke> however, I told firefox to be the default
[09:03] <willcooke> oh, it's because that's an old terminal
[09:04] <willcooke> doing it in a new terminal shows firefox.desktop
[09:04] <willcooke> seb128, ditto - shows firefox
[09:05] <seb128> I guess xdg-utils is having an issue, let me see if I get that here
[09:05] <seb128> willcooke, if you "xdg-open https://bug" you get the same error I guess?
[09:16] <willcooke> seb128, so turns out the bug is:  open a terminal, install chrome, set chrome to be your default, do all this while leaving the terminal open.  Go back to that original terminal and xdg-open is "broken".  If you open a new terminal, everything works fine
[09:17] <seb128> k, so xdg-utils is a bunch of shell script
[09:17] <seb128> it probably isn't dynamic enough
[09:18] <andyrock> i guess it depends on the way it sets the enviroment variables
[09:18] <andyrock> iff it uses env variables to deal with this
[09:18] <seb128> willcooke, so you started chrome from the same command line?
[09:19] <seb128> in practice most users are probably going to install or start the browser from the UI
[09:19] <willcooke> seb128, probably not - probably started it from the UI
[09:19] <willcooke> I think it's just that that terminal session needed to reread some "stuff"
[09:19] <willcooke> anyway, minor issue imo
[09:21] <seb128> yeah
[09:22] <seb128> but how did you try to open the url?
[09:22] <seb128> I would have expected that clicking on an http link in e.g tomboy to open the new handler
[09:23] <seb128> or any other graphical component
[09:30] <seb128> k, dropping offline for a bit
[09:30] <seb128> going for lunch and trying to work for a new place after that
[09:31] <seb128> bbl
[10:14] <willcooke> laney, when you get a mo. can you try operating nautilus with touch?  I'm seeing very odd behaviour.  It's like it thinks I want to select some files with a mouse-drag, but it won't stop doing the drag, and then there are a load of artifacts left over (the outlines of the rubberband).  Curious if I'm just doing it wrong
[10:14] <willcooke> operating = opening files and folders
[10:20] <Laney> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/nautilus.mp4
[10:20] <Laney> it got messed up because of hidpi but you get the idea
[10:20] <Laney> that's all touch
[10:21] <willcooke> Laney, interesting, thanks.
[10:22] <willcooke> man, hidpi looks nice
[10:23] <Laney> are you on wayland?
[10:23] <Laney> this is X
[10:23] <Laney> and yeah, it's boss
[10:23] <Laney> not boss for battery life but you can't have it all /o\
[10:23] <willcooke> :)
[10:23] <willcooke> ah, perhaps this is a wayland thing then
[10:29] <Laney> yeah just went to wayland, messed up there
[10:29] <Laney> do we have a tag or something for wayland bugs?
[10:29]  * Laney has the jibel white terminal outline too
[10:35] <willcooke> no white terminal outline here, odd.
[10:37] <Laney> lucky~~~~~
[10:46] <willcooke> Laney, shall I log a bug against Nautilus for the oddness?
[10:46] <willcooke> and just tag it "wayland" for now?
[10:46] <Laney> willcooke: I guess start there, but it's probably going to end up being a gtk/mutter thing
[10:46] <Laney> can reassign tho
[10:47] <willcooke> ack, thx
[10:47] <willcooke> Laney, next question, do you know of any screen recorders that work with Wayland?
[10:47] <Laney> shell has something built in
[10:47] <Laney> CAS-r I think
[10:48] <Laney> that's it, not tried it on wayland though but I assume that it works there
[10:50] <willcooke> seems to, thanks
[10:52] <Laney> np
[10:57] <willcooke> humm, not sure it's really a bug now.  Meh, I will log it anyway and we can ignore if needed
[11:02] <willcooke> Laney, seems ubuntu-bug auto-adds the "wayland-session" tag, so shall we stick with that
[11:03] <Laney> noisy https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wayland-session
[11:05] <Laney> well
[11:05] <Laney> maybe those should be triaged
[11:06] <willcooke> yeah, it's not too bad, there are some that can probably be detagged right away
[11:07] <willcooke> I'll take a quick look now
[11:09] <chrisccoulson> does anybody use banshee these days?
[11:11] <oSoMoN> haven't used it in years, should I give it another try?
[11:14] <willcooke> Laney, some very minor triage done.  Only about 5 bugs
[11:21] <oSoMoN> trying banshee now, how the heck do I quit the app? (and stop playback, while at it)
[11:22] <oSoMoN> pause and close works, apparently
[11:23] <oSoMoN> looks like closing the window only hides it while there’s something playing back, and exits the app when nothing is playing back ?
[11:23] <willcooke> I think RBox does something similar
[11:24] <Laney> willcooke: thx
[11:24] <Laney> do we want to try to /fix/ some of this stuff?
[11:26] <willcooke> Well, we have a requirement from OEM to make sure touch works well on Shell, so some of the usibility issues, yes we should try and fix.  What I'm not sure about is do we want to start on them this cycle.  I don't think we'll get much time to do everything else, and we'll uncover a new one every day.
[11:26] <willcooke> So I think if we say that making Shell work well with touch is an 18.04 goal, then we should have a good list of issues by the start of the next cycle
[11:27] <Laney> I meant Wayland issues
[11:27] <willcooke> The ones which directly impact Shell, perhaps - see above.  But, e.g. "Application foo doesn't work on Wayland.." then probably not
[11:28] <Laney> Yes of course.
[11:28] <didrocks> oSoMoN: that's exactly the behavior. I was requested in 2010 to implement this design (it's probably a distro-patch, I don't remember)
[11:38] <willcooke> Laney, are you chairing the meeting today?  If so I'll forward you the updates from those who aren't here
[11:39] <Laney> yes, thanks
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> Is someone adding the whoopsie settings to the control centre?
[11:51]  * didrocks would like we have a discussion about whoopsie again btw
[11:51] <didrocks> (maybe not for 17.10, but 18.04)
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> what sort of discussion?
[11:51] <didrocks> like going back to the sane report-bug behavior: disabling once released
[11:52] <didrocks> and opt-in in the installer
[11:55] <Laney> chrisccoulson: don't think we thought about / assigned that yet
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> Laney, awesome. I'm glad to be useful once in a while
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> Now, why isn't it finished yet?
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> :)
[11:56] <Laney> I heard you were looking for work to do :)
[12:01] <jbicha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wayland
[12:02] <jbicha> I've just been using the 'wayland' tag
[12:02] <Laney> looks like that overlaps with wayland-session
[12:03] <jbicha> except wayland-session is automatically added if someone happens to run GNOME on Wayland so the bugs may not be Wayland-specific at all
[13:16] <seb128> if I retry "autopkgtest for python-dbusmock/0.16.7-1: amd64: Regression ♻" on update_excuses, does it retry with the same version or with the current archive one?
[13:16] <pitti> seb128: with the current one
[13:16] <seb128> pitti, danke
[13:16] <pitti> it doesn't really have any other chance anyway, 0.16.7 is gone
[13:16]  * seb128 retries those
[13:16] <pitti> yes, 0.16.8 ought to fix stuff
[13:16] <seb128> pitti, technically it's in the librarian
[13:17] <seb128> or whatever the launchpad db is called
[13:17] <pitti> yes, but we only use apt and our repositories (consciously)
[13:17] <seb128> but yeah archive is easier
[13:17] <seb128> good
[13:48] <seb128> jbicha, hey, were you waiting for eds to be binNEWed to upload evolution?
[13:49] <jbicha> seb128: yes
[13:49] <seb128> jbicha, how did you notice it has been NEWed? I'm a bit curious :-)
[13:50] <seb128> just from the -devel discussion
[13:50] <seb128> (I don't think we notify uploaders about binNEW?)
[13:51] <jbicha> I noticed because I happened to check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+queue?queue_state=0
[13:51] <jbicha> I was a bit early uploading evolution as the new e-d-s binaries haven't even been published yet!
[13:52] <seb128> yeah, I was going to say
[13:52] <seb128> you could as well have uploaded it weeks ago and let depwait do its thing
[14:38] <Laney> ooh my astrantia has been sent
[14:50] <seb128> hum
[14:50] <seb128> how do one tell update_excuses to consider new versions of tests?
[14:51] <seb128> bluez still has "autopkgtest for python-dbusmock/0.16.7-1: amd64: Regression ♻" but I retried it and it worked with 0.16.8-1
[14:51] <seb128> but seems like the migration script is not considering the new version
[14:53] <Laney> it will get it the next time proposed-migration runs
[14:54] <seb128> great
[14:55] <seb128> thanks
[14:55] <seb128> it looked like there was an update since the retry which is why I asked, but maybe things were not uptodate yet for some reason, let's see on the next one
[14:56] <seb128> k, moving places before the meeting
[14:56] <seb128> bbiab
[15:31] <Laney> oooooooooooooh
[15:31] <Laney> #startmeeting Desktop team 2017-06-13
[15:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 13 15:31:48 2017 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:31] <didrocks> hey hey
[15:31] <andyrock> hey
[15:31] <Laney> wait
[15:32] <Laney> I need to find the log from last week to get the names
[15:32] <Laney> ¬_¬
[15:32] <didrocks> :)
[15:32] <oSoMoN> 👽/
[15:32] <kenvandine> o/
[15:32]  * Laney can't do 13-7
[15:33] <heber> o/
[15:33] <Laney> andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:33] <Trevinho> o/
[15:34]  * Trevinho forgot about the unmeeting... It was better when it was at midnight :-/
[15:34] <jbicha> o/
[15:34] <Laney> Trevinho: everyone forgets about it :|
[15:34] <seb128> lol
[15:34] <Laney> let's GO
[15:34] <Laney> #topic andyrock
[15:34] <andyrock> hey
[15:34] <seb128> I didn't but was not around, had to stop for some errands before the real meeting
[15:34] <andyrock> #1. Changed the design of canonical-livepatch + software-properties, as suggested by mpt
[15:34] <andyrock> #2. Deployed u1 and livepatch-token mock services in canonicstack
[15:34] <andyrock> #3. Created ppa with a demo
[15:34] <andyrock> #4. Fix failing test in unity7 + published new unity7 with the fix in artful
[15:34] <andyrock> #5. WIP: Removing some hacks in the canonical-livepatch gui (in particular communicate with sockets to enable/disable service and check the status)
[15:34] <andyrock> # eow
[15:35] <Laney> nice
[15:35] <Laney> I would try that but I've got no LTS installs :P
[15:35] <Laney> #topic dgadomski
[15:35] <dgadomski> hey
[15:35] <dgadomski> unfortunately nothing desktop-related this week
[15:35] <dgadomski> eof
[15:35] <Laney> hmm
[15:35] <Laney> topic is too long
[15:36] <Laney> thanks dgadomski, maybe next time ;-)
[15:36] <Laney> #topic didrocks
[15:36] <didrocks> :p
[15:36] <Laney> argh
[15:36] <Laney> lose
[15:36] <didrocks> (title is hardcoded)
[15:36] <didrocks> * snapcraft-desktop-helper:
[15:36] <didrocks>  - gtk settings init: theme fixes. Got an issue reported on the forum fixed back today. Implemented the necessary file sharing in snapd in unity7 interface (we will need to rename it at some point in "desktop" interface IMHO). That's now merged, pending on a snapd release.
[15:36] <didrocks>  - add other fixes to launcher (add more default theming). Did the same for our GNOME platform snap.
[15:36] <didrocks>  - strip down the size by removing ubuntu-app-platform (old SDK) support and Mir for desktop support. Branched though so that people can easily readd them if they need it.
[15:36] <didrocks> * amazon:
[15:36] <didrocks>  - rebase the snap on the version 1.0
[15:36] <didrocks>  - retested fully with rescratching the whole config (with and without the snap). The same blocker persists. Amazon guys acked the issue.
[15:36] <didrocks>  - discuss with security team and provide the base snap to get an interface working (at least, up to the point we are blocked on)
[15:37] <didrocks> * discussed some client-specific snap workshop organization
[15:37] <didrocks> .
[15:37] <Laney> \o/
[15:37] <Laney> thanks
[15:37] <Laney> #topic duflu
[15:37]  * Laney pastes
[15:38] <Laney> * PulseAudio:
[15:38] <Laney>   - SRU of A2DP Bluetooth audio fixes to xenial:
[15:38] <Laney>     . Moving slowly, but still moving:
[15:38] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&que
[15:38] <Laney> ue_text=pulseaudio
[15:38] <Laney> * BlueZ:
[15:38] <Laney>   - Proposed upgrade to 5.45: bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1696075
[15:38] <Laney>   - Drafted docs for git usage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Deskto
[15:38] <Laney> pTeam/Bluetooth/BluezGit
[15:38] <Laney>   - Blocked on a spurious test failure in a downstream:
[15:38] <Laney>     . bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1696480
[15:38] <Laney>     . Wrote, proposed and landed an upstream fix for python-dbusmock.
[15:38] <Laney>     . No bluez fix required.
[15:38] <Laney>     . Unblocked: Pitti released the fix to Ubuntu today.
[15:38] <Laney> * Video acceleration:
[15:38] <Laney>   - Tested a variety of players, videos, and hardware, in order to...
[15:38] <Laney>   - Worked out test cases (specific videos and target threshold)
[15:38] <Laney>   - Now I'm confident I know exactly what to do, and in what order.
[15:38] <Laney> * Ubuntu Themes:
[15:38] <Laney>   - Fixed the most visible and annoying Ambiance theme bug in artful Gnome:
[15:38] <Laney>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1693613
[15:38] <Laney> * Daily bug maintenance across gnome-shell, bluez, pulseaudio and mir.
[15:38] <Laney> #topic jbicha
[15:39] <jbicha> • Joined Core Dev
[15:39] <jbicha> • Pushed latest security release (2.16.3) of webkit2gtk in to Debian 9 "Stretch" just before the deadline. No promises for future updates but we'll see how it goes.
[15:39] <jbicha> • Became GNOME Tweak Tool's maintainer. Did a 3.25 and a 3.24 release and let people know about some 3.25 improvements via my blog.
[15:39] <jbicha> • Started discussion of several default apps on the ubuntu-desktop list
[15:39] <seb128> jbicha, congrats on coredev
[15:39] <jbicha> • Vala 0.36 transition
[15:39] <jbicha> thanks
[15:39] <jbicha> eof
[15:39] <kenvandine> jbicha, congrats!
[15:40] <Laney> nice one
[15:40] <Laney> #topic jamesh
[15:40] <Laney> only people with short nicks are allowed from now on
[15:40] <didrocks> :p
[15:41] <Laney> * xdg-desktop-portal/snap prototype: The snapd changes and
[15:41] <Laney> xdg-desktop-portal changes are working, with a snap being able to talk
[15:41] <Laney> to e.g. the proxy resolver interface.  I should have the
[15:41] <Laney> xdg-document-portal changes ready shortly, which is needed for the
[15:41] <Laney> file picker portals.  Next step is to put builds of the prototype into
[15:41] <Laney> a PPA.
[15:41] <Laney> * gnome-software: Robert asked me to look at a few bugs here.  I'm
[15:41] <Laney> starting on installation of snaps with classic confinement.
[15:41] <Laney> #topic heber
[15:41] <Laney> guessing it's you ;-)
[15:41] <heber> Hey guys! For the QA side:
[15:41] <heber> * Desktop test plan in progress.
[15:41] <heber> * Ubiquity and smoke jobs more stable and reliable.
[15:41] <heber> * First version of Job for running desktop tests on HW in progress.
[15:41] <heber> * Started discussing/defining some foundations needed before starting automating post install/upgrade tests.
[15:41] <heber> EOF
[15:42] <Laney> nice
[15:42] <Laney> is that still running at the platform-qa-jenkins?
[15:42] <heber> correct
[15:42]  * Laney nod
[15:42] <Laney> thanks!
[15:42] <heber> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/Artful/
[15:43] <Laney> #topic kenvandine
[15:43] <kenvandine> * Enabled the mir backend in gtk and patched out the need for content-hub
[15:43] <kenvandine> * In updating my gnome snaps to use the gnome-3-24 snap I found some more packages that needed backports for xenial, so I backported those in the gnome-3-24 PPA
[15:43] <kenvandine> * Finished off the blog post on the poll results, and worked with marketing to get that published on insights.
[15:43] <kenvandine> * Had a great call with the gnome design team and gnome-shell maintainers
[15:43] <kenvandine> * trying to organize having mpt join us at guadec for a day to talk about status icons
[15:43] <kenvandine> * eof
[15:43] <kenvandine> s/*//g
[15:43] <kenvandine> :)
[15:44] <Laney> nice
[15:44] <Laney> design day sounds good ;-)
[15:44] <kenvandine> yeah, we plan to discuss the status icons api there
[15:44] <kenvandine> mpt would be a great addition to that
[15:44] <didrocks> kenvandine: on backport in the PPA, does it means that people who will want to use that platform snap will have to install the PPA? Do we have instructions for this?
[15:44] <Laney> we should get a topic list going so we don't forget to raise stuff
[15:45] <kenvandine> didrocks, yes... and there will be instructions
[15:45] <didrocks> "will" ok :-)
[15:45] <Laney> also
[15:45] <Laney> kenvandine: do you have commit access at gnome?
[15:45] <kenvandine> didrocks, once we get a few snaps done and in the store i'll be posting about that on insights
[15:45] <Laney> might be an idea to commit that de-content-hubification patch
[15:45] <kenvandine> Laney, i used to :)
[15:45] <kenvandine> not sure about now
[15:45] <Laney> so we're vanilla again when there's a point release
[15:46] <kenvandine> Laney, i wanted a little time to make sure those that wanted the mir backend are cool with having it without the pasteboard
[15:46] <didrocks> kenvandine: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com sounds a better place for this :)
[15:46] <seb128> kenvandine, didrocks, do we need to use the ppa? or should we just build a -dev snap from it?
[15:46] <kenvandine> didrocks, even better :)
[15:46] <didrocks> seb128: no -dev snap
[15:46] <Laney> ahah
[15:46] <didrocks> that was requested, worked on, and nacked
[15:47] <kenvandine> bummer
[15:47] <kenvandine> that would have been cool
[15:47] <didrocks> we can publish a tarball though
[15:47] <didrocks> let's discuss that maybe this week?
[15:47] <seb128> I though kde sort of did it for their framework
[15:47] <didrocks> they do a tarball
[15:47] <seb128> just building a tar for the snap builddir
[15:47] <seb128> from
[15:47] <seb128> but yeah
[15:47] <didrocks> +1 on the tarball
[15:47] <seb128> it's probably too much to discuss in that topic
[15:47] <didrocks> but let's discuss that maybe tomorrow?
[15:47] <seb128> *meeting
[15:47] <seb128> +1
[15:47] <kenvandine> +1
[15:48] <Laney> mmmmmmmmmooooooooooooving on
[15:48] <Laney> #topic Laney
[15:48] <Laney> • New glib2.0
[15:48] <Laney> • ubuntu-dev-tools test (FTBFS) fix & upload to exp
[15:48] <Laney> • Had a planning meeting in London to try to discuss priorities / what to do this cycle, TBA
[15:48] <Laney> • gnome-software
[15:48] <Laney> ∘ Rebased on master
[15:48] <Laney> ∘ some more codec fixes
[15:48] <Laney> ∘ working on dropping apt backend now
[15:48] <Laney> ∘ should be ready to test/upload this week
[15:48] <Laney> • Fixed a crash bug in gnome-terminal
[15:48] <Laney> 🙇
[15:48] <Laney> oh and I switched to Shell on both machines and played with that
[15:49]  * Laney is living the extension free life
[15:49] <Laney> for now
[15:49] <kenvandine> Laney, awesome :)
[15:49] <Laney> #topic oSoMoN
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • chromium 59.0.3071.86 promoted to stable last week but Chris found two issues with my packages (bug #1696965 and bug #1697496), working on them to get an update to users asap, and updated my test plan to ensure I catch this kind of regressions much earlier next time
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • updated chromium beta to 60.0.3112.24
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • updated chromium dev to 60.0.3112.20 then 61.0.3124.4 (looking into arm64 build failures on zesty and artful)
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • my packages for libreoffice 5.3.3 got sponsored into artful, thanks Seb!
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • started on debian merges, did gconf 3.2.6-4, thanks again Seb!
[15:49] <oSoMoN> • working on a script to automate debian/copyright generation for chromium
[15:49] <oSoMoN> 🝗🜨🝡
[15:50] <Laney> thanks
[15:50] <Laney> gconf, woah!
[15:50] <seb128> :-)
[15:50] <oSoMoN> yeah, gotta start somewhere :)
[15:50] <seb128> it was an easy one, one revision in Debian to merge
[15:50] <Laney> nod
[15:50] <seb128> good job with it oSoMoN :-)
[15:50]  * Laney usually fakemerges those ones
[15:50] <Laney> #topic seb128
[15:51] <seb128> • reviews & sponsoring for the team (libreoffice 5.3.3, bluez 5.45, pulseaudio SRU, gconf merge)
[15:51] <seb128> • 2 days of planning work in London
[15:51] <seb128> • NEW review of e-d-s update for artful
[15:51] <seb128> • replied to ubuntu-desktop@ emails about suggested new desktop components

[15:51] <Laney> oh yeah
[15:51] <Laney> didrocks forgot the kde new reviews in his summary
[15:51] <didrocks> Laney: I don't count Tuesday on my report :)
[15:51] <didrocks> so for next one
[15:51] <Laney> ahah
[15:51] <didrocks> (mine is ready on Tuesday morning)
[15:51] <seb128> :-)
[15:51] <didrocks> <spoil />
[15:51] <didrocks> :)
[15:51]  * Laney counts right up to 16:36 or so
[15:52] <Laney> #topic tkamppeter
[15:53] <Laney> WELL!
[15:53] <Laney> tkamppeter: let us have your status please ...
[15:54] <Laney> #topic Trevinho
[15:54] <Trevinho> · Joined the Fractional Scaling GNOME Hackfest
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Setup various hardware to run GNOME with jhbuild and fractional scaling branches
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Wrote an algorithm to pick the closest fractional levels close to integers that we can pick as logical size (to still have integer resolutions)
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Updated gnome-control-center to support new configuration API and to show available scaling values per selected resolution
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Some fixes in gnome shell toolkit to paint things taking in account the resource-scale
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Fixed the fullscreen animation when using resource scaling in wayland
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Defined al algorithm (to be tuned, as per discussion with vendors) to pick the preferred scaling value for each resolution (to be used as default)
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Various other random fixes
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Lots of other discussions (http://go.3v1n0.net/FactorialScalingJournal)
[15:54] <Trevinho>  ◦ Writing a resume of it
[15:54] <Trevinho> · Back to Europe :(
[15:54] <Trevinho> 🐒
[15:55] <Laney> thanks
[15:55] <Laney> ladies and gentlemen, our new wayland expert
[15:55] <didrocks> \o/
[15:55] <Trevinho> not really... but.. getting into it :-)
[15:55] <kenvandine> woot
[15:55] <seb128> :-)
[15:56] <seb128> Trevinho, we are going to miss having you online at the same time as us :p
[15:56]  * Laney has a shadows bug in wayland if you want to look :P
[15:56] <Laney> haha
[15:56] <Laney> le troll
[15:56] <Trevinho> seb128: yeah... :-D
[15:56] <Laney> oh, tkamppeter just emailed me
[15:56] <Laney> #topic tkamppeter 2
[15:56] <Laney> - CUPS: Did some tests for automatic queue creation and for needed changes on
[15:56] <Laney> cups-browsed. Found a crash in the new code in the CUPS library and reported
[15:56] <Laney> it upstream. Requested also a feature that clients can distinguish between
[15:56] <Laney> permanent and temporary CUPS queues.
[15:56] <Laney> - cups-filters: Tests upstream work for making it working with the new CUPS
[15:56] <Laney> which by itself auto-creates print queues.
[15:56] <Laney> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Student project coordination and mentoring.
[15:56] <Laney> - Bugs.
[15:57] <Laney> #topic robert_ancell
[15:57] <Laney> - LightDM / gnome-shell work - decided too hard to get done for 17.10
[15:57] <Laney> - Refactored gnome-software snap plugin refining, should be more efficient
[15:57] <Laney> reliable.
[15:57] <Laney> - Investigating default GNOME apps on Ubuntu
[15:57] <Laney> - Booking things for Snappy sprint
[15:57] <Laney> #topic AOB
[15:58] <jbicha> seb128: are you able to handle removals like LP: #1695928 ?
[15:58] <Laney> #endmeeting
[15:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 13 15:58:42 2017 UTC.
[15:58] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-06-13-15.31.moin.txt
[15:59] <jbicha> it looks like I entangled the UOA removal with the Evolution 3.24 transition (address-book-service needs to be rebuilt or removed)
[15:59] <didrocks> thanks everyone!
[15:59] <seb128> Laney shuting the AOB door without countdown :p
[15:59] <Laney> I waited 1 minute :P
[16:00] <oSoMoN> NOB
[16:00] <Laney> hahah
[16:00] <Laney> in (british) english that is rude
[16:00] <seb128> jbicha, technical I could yes, I didn't give enough consideration to that list of packages to know if I agree they should go from the archive and not stay in universe though
[16:01] <jbicha> seb128: do you know who else I should ping about Unity8 removal?
[16:01] <oSoMoN> man, I’m talking slang without even knowing it
[16:02] <Laney> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nob
[16:02] <Laney> (rude!)
[16:02] <kenvandine> lol
[16:02] <kenvandine> "Typically used as an excellent cheap insult. "
[16:03] <jbicha> I think gnome-weather is fairly uncontroversial for inclusion in ubuntu-desktop, unless we want to avoid gjs apps
[16:04] <seb128> jbicha, try xnox he seemed eager to press the delete trigger
[16:06] <seb128> jbicha, gjs apps is one question, the geolocation service used is another one, how reliable the service is a third one
[16:06] <jbicha> I believe it's the same geolocation service used by the Night Light feature
[16:07] <seb128> still doesn't tell me which one it is
[16:07] <seb128> we should probably talk to the owner of that service before DOSing  by making our default install ping it on regular basis :p
[16:07] <jbicha> seb128: is geoclue specific enough for what you're asking?
[16:08] <seb128> not really
[16:08] <seb128> there was a question on whether it's fine to hit that service by default
[16:08] <seb128> and if we respect they guideline
[16:08] <jbicha> the weather service or the location service?
[16:08] <seb128> both
[16:08] <seb128> whatever servers we make use of by using those features
[16:09] <seb128> they might have conditions stating that it's not fine to use their service like we do
[16:09] <seb128> or in commercial products or whatever
[16:09] <jbicha> I believe the Red Hat desktop ships gnome-weather by default so commercial is unlikely to be an issue
[16:10] <seb128> they maybe have an agreement with redhat
[16:10] <seb128> I just don't know
[16:10] <seb128> but I think we need to figure that out
[16:10] <seb128> and talk to whoever is hosting the service
[16:10] <seb128> to at least let them know what's going on
[16:11] <seb128> also I don't know if we are fine having our default desktop "pinging" to third party servers by default
[16:12] <seb128> my other issue is that whatever is returning a location is picking weird places, but that's a minor annoyance
[16:12] <seb128> like it shows me the weather for "zestienhoven airport"
[16:12] <seb128> I'm not in an airport and I don't even know where that place is
[16:12] <jbicha> I think we already do ping 3rd-party servers for stuff (Firefox, fwupd, etc.)
[16:13] <seb128> fwupd is being discussed and we are not sure we like it
[16:13] <jbicha> seb128: it sounds like you need the Maps app too then! ;)
[16:13] <seb128> :-)
[16:13] <jbicha> I don't understand what's not to like about firmware updating
[16:14] <seb128> what is not to like is not the firmware update
[16:14] <seb128> is having all ubuntu install pinging a third party server
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> I was wondering about this the other day actually
[16:15] <seb128> our users really didn't like when we suggested doing that toward one of our servers
[16:16] <jbicha> well, the captive portal detection will be the same basic thing
[16:16] <seb128> it might be controversial for some of our users as well yes
[16:16] <seb128> we should at least have a discussion about what services we are using, the impact
[16:16] <jbicha> at least for desktop, you can't use a web browser without pinging large numbers of 3rd party servers so I think the concern is overblown there
[16:16] <seb128> and document that we are doing so
[16:17] <jbicha> gnome-control-center has a Privacy pane where you can disable Location
[16:17] <seb128> maybe that should be off by default
[16:17] <jbicha> it makes sense to add the Captive Portal detection there (or to the Network panel)
[16:19] <jbicha> disabling those features and services by default isn't actually helping our users IMO
[16:20] <jbicha> anyway, I'm done with my AOB for today's mtg now :)
[16:21] <willcooke> Laney, those images on the maps thing were purely for my benefit - somewhere to put what they told me other than email.  I think I've worked it out now, and I'm trying to edit the maps
[16:25] <Laney> willcooke: ok, just looked like some random pictures to me ;-)
[16:25] <willcooke> Laney, :) yeah.
[16:25] <willcooke> This master SVG is a conundrum
[16:25] <Laney> what is the problem?
[16:31] <willcooke> Laney, http://imgur.com/a/aa3yf
[16:31] <willcooke> Laney, the current border is in blue, and it needs to move to the yellow
[16:33] <Laney> isn't that kashmir?
[16:33] <willcooke> think so
[16:33] <Laney> disputed region
[16:33] <Laney> is this request legitimate?
[16:33] <willcooke> interestingly Google maps shows something different to me than it does to the guy who reported it (who is in India)
[16:33] <willcooke> legal say it is
[16:34] <Laney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir#/media/File:Kashmir_region_2004.jpg
[16:34] <Laney> it's that green bit?
[16:40] <willcooke> Laney, hmm, I think so.  Most of it at least
[16:43] <jbicha> willcooke: Wikipedia says that Pakistan controls the northern part of Kashmir, although the whole thing is disputed
[16:44] <willcooke> right, I think that ties up with what I'm doing
[16:45] <Laney> you're putting it as part of india?
[16:47] <Laney> well, if you've got the OK :P
[17:03] <willcooke> I'm going to edit it, and then run it past legal
[17:08] <Laney> willcooke: if I'm going to be reviewing this then I would appreciate their statement on the merge request to ward off any backlash
[17:08]  * Laney thinks this is very sensitive
[17:09] <Laney> night all
[17:10] <willcooke> Laney, roger that.  night
[17:26] <oSoMoN> night all
[19:18] <cyphermox> jbicha: I have some issues with the last evolution upload... it disable 02_nss_paths.patch, which clearly won't apply but is still very required.
[19:18] <cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/~cyphermox/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/7896475/+listing-archive-extra
[19:19] <cyphermox> (disregard the failure on amd64, it's unrelated to that patch)
[19:24] <jbicha> cyphermox: feel free to upload that, and if you'd like to update https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution/ubuntu too, that would be great
[19:25] <jbicha> maybe we should mention that repo in the Vcs fields
[19:25] <jbicha> eventually it will move to git
[19:28] <cyphermox> ok
[20:26] <willcooke> night all