[00:00] <slangasek> those people didn't upload to a NEW queue that I help oversee
[00:00] <jbicha> it sounds like you're trading burden on the archive mirrors (the package is very small) for burden on the autopkgtest builders
[00:01] <slangasek> it's burden on every single system that downloads apt Packages files, not just the archive mirrors
[00:02] <jbicha> *cough* nodejs *cough*
[00:02] <slangasek> yes, that is the tradeoff - and I come down in favor of putting the burden on the autopkgtest runners
[00:03] <slangasek> if you want to backdoor a binary package into the Ubuntu archive without having to justify it to an Ubuntu AA, you should upload it to Debian and sync it ;)
[00:03] <jbicha> that's a major change in position and you should probably discuss that more widely
[00:03] <slangasek> what is?
[00:03] <jbicha> saying that you don't think installed-tests should be packaged
[00:03] <slangasek> it's certainly not a change in position by me
[00:05] <slangasek> infinity: ^^ since you seemed to not have the same concern I do?
[00:05] <jbicha> I help maintain the evolution-data-server packaging in Debian and now that we're dropping UOA we're very close to being in sync (probably after 18.04 LTS for transitional pkgs)
[00:05] <slangasek> Debian also allowed dumb -dbg packages into the archive for a very long time; that is also something I would not have allowed into the archive via an Ubuntu upload
[00:08] <slangasek> cyphermox: SRU-release'ing klibc/yakkety before you can change your mind
[00:10] <jbicha> I'm waiting for pkg-gnome to sponsor e-d-s 3.24 with the installed-tests for me, I've also begun the DD application process so I don't have to wait as much in the future :)
[00:10] <Ukikie> slangasek: But really, the Debug archive doesn't have a trusted key in Ubuntu, nor commented out in /etc/apt/sources.list either, so that's really not ideal..
[00:11] <slangasek> Ukikie: both of those are, at best, fixable bugs that don't warrant a design that requires every mirror to carry debug symbols and every user to download indices for them
[00:12] <Ukikie> slangasek: I do agree, but as of yet they still aren't.
[00:12] <slangasek> jbicha: I see Laney's name in the changelogs of some of the apt-file found packages, so I'll name drop him here in case he wants to defend the practice
[00:13] <slangasek> Ukikie: yes, because they're a low priority due to the vanishingly small number of users affected... which just reinforces that they don't belong on the mirrors ;)
[00:20] <jbicha> considering we have 50k+ packages for amd64 and 50k+ packages for i386, it doesn't seem worth trying to stop a couple more packages
[00:21] <slangasek> "the archive is big so we should let it grow without bounds"
[00:24] <jbicha> let's spend more time worrying about a .002% difference :)
[00:26] <slangasek> well, I'm not spending any more time worrying about it; but I'm also not accepting that package from binary NEW
[00:26] <slangasek> another AA can if they think it's ok
[00:27] <infinity> Well, to be fair, if packaging out-of-tree testsuites was considered best practice, and all packages had tests, you'd be adding 15k packages to the archive or something.
[00:27] <infinity> But that's probably a straw man as much as only looking at one specific addition is.
[00:30] <infinity> slangasek: As for opinions on the matter, I'd agree that in a perfect world, we should have a tests archive that these -tests debs get shunted off to, that can be in the sources.list for autopkgtest runners.  I'm less convinced that the absence of that should lead to tests always being rebuilt.
[00:31] <slangasek> infinity: the tradeoff I'm looking at here is that every Ubuntu machine downloads sources.list every day, and autopkgtests put load on a couple of machines a few times a cycle
[00:31] <infinity> Machine time aside, given that autopkgtest is meant to be package-level regression tests, a prebuilt binary is better than effectively "testing" the toolchain with every re-run of your tests.
[00:31] <jbicha> yes, a tests archive similar to the dbg archive is reasonable too
[00:31] <slangasek> sure
[00:32] <infinity> We could also slap them in another component, which I'm sure Colin would be thrilled to discuss.
[00:32] <infinity> Mirror space here is really not a massive concern, IMO, the growth of Packages.gz *might* be, but I'm obviously less fussed about it than you are.
[00:33] <infinity> (Plus, as you note, it'll flow in from Debian soon enough anyway, so if you really hate it, we should either discuss it in Debian, or we have an ugly road ahead of carrying deltas or automagic filtering to drop those packages in only Ubuntu)
[02:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sudo (xenial-proposed/main) [1.8.16-0ubuntu1.4 => 1.8.16-0ubuntu1.5] (core)
[02:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sudo (yakkety-proposed/main) [1.8.16-0ubuntu3.2 => 1.8.16-0ubuntu3.3] (core)
[02:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sudo (zesty-proposed/main) [1.8.19p1-1ubuntu1.1 => 1.8.19p1-1ubuntu1.2] (core)
[02:53] <tsimonq2> Wonderful, mass rebuilds in a Foundations PPA that has the same build priority as everything else so it clogs up the build queue when I want to build something :/
[02:53]  * tsimonq2 shrugs and waits
[02:56] <mwhudson> tsimonq2: sorry, the priority has been reduced now
[02:57] <tsimonq2> mwhudson: Thanks
[03:03] <mwhudson> tsimonq2: pity my team mates who are getting all the failure mails :)
[03:05] <tsimonq2> mwhudson: lol
[03:06]  * tsimonq2 mumbles something or other about Adam's large inbox
[03:07] <tsimonq2> mwhudson: Well I'm building Qt right now, so apologies for clogging up the queue... :P
[03:08] <mwhudson> hehe
[03:08] <mwhudson> i'm about to be afk for a few hours anyway so...
[03:08] <tsimonq2> lol
[05:36] <cpaelzer> Hi AA's the text in bug 1694159 is rather crowded as it affects different packages in very different way
[05:36] <cpaelzer> But if there would be one around that could help me removing things from Artful that would be very kind
[05:36] <cpaelzer> because unintentionally "hidden" in that bug is the request and reasoning to remove kimchi & ginger
[05:37] <cpaelzer> I subscribed ubuntu-archive a while ago, but I see that you'll have to read a lot through the other content to see what is the todo for an AA there
[05:37] <cpaelzer> therefore asking here
[06:51] <infinity> cpaelzer: Done.  Want me to go ahead and remove nova and libvirt too? :P
[06:51] <infinity> Pretty sure no one uses those.
[06:55] <cpaelzer> infinity: thanks
[06:55] <cpaelzer> infinity: if you do so for a short while I could take a break so why not :-P
[06:56] <cpaelzer> I'll come back with more removes in ~1 week, but even then noether libvirt nor nova
[06:56] <cpaelzer> :-)
[06:56] <cpaelzer> or rather "neither" than noether
[06:57] <infinity> I assumed that was an alternate spelling known only to your inner circle.
[06:57] <cpaelzer> yeah my personal inner circle - I'm fat enough to have several
[06:57] <infinity> Though, I'd expect it to be nœther.
[06:58] <cpaelzer> working from home is not good for your shape
[06:58] <infinity> Dude, tell me about it.
[06:58] <cpaelzer> I know we share that part
[06:58] <infinity> I used to be thin as a rail when I started this gig.  I'm approaching beach ball shape.
[06:58] <infinity> Which just makes it more efficient to roll from the office to the fridge.
[06:58] <infinity> Which exacerbates the problem.
[06:58] <cpaelzer> if I continue at the canonical rate I have so far I'll crack 200kg in 2025
[06:59] <cpaelzer> ok next bug, ... thanks for the smiles you caused infinity
[08:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected click [sync] (xenial-proposed) [0.4.43+16.04.20170613-0ubuntu1]
[08:03] <apw> that thing is cursed
[08:06] <Laney> slangasek: It makes sense. A good autopkgtest tests a non-moving target, which the -tests packages are.
[08:06] <Laney> So yes. I defend it.
[08:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: click (xenial-proposed/main) [0.4.43+16.04.20160203-0ubuntu2 => 0.4.43+16.04.20170613-0ubuntu1] (ubuntu-desktop) (sync)
[08:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted click [source] (zesty-proposed) [0.4.46+17.04.20170607.3-0ubuntu1]
[08:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted click [sync] (xenial-proposed) [0.4.43+16.04.20170613-0ubuntu1]
[08:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted click [source] (yakkety-proposed) [0.4.46+16.10.20170607.3-0ubuntu1]
[10:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: freeipa (zesty-proposed/universe) [4.4.3-3ubuntu2 => 4.4.3-3ubuntu2.1] (no packageset)
[13:40] <beisner_> hi all - can i have an archive admin help move some new openstack pike packages along for us in the artful new queue?:
[13:40] <beisner_> pypowervm, python-ovsdbapp, python-zunclient, python-deprecation, python-os-traits
[14:06] <mapreri> so, today I wanted to pull off the opencv 3.1 transition, except that there is a buggy package (src:mldemos) that FTBFS, etc.  Can it be dropped out of release, and kept in proposed only?  Shall it be done before or after the opencv upload triggering the transition?
[14:06] <mapreri> Also, is it a good time at all or there is something big going on, etc?
[14:07] <mapreri> (test builds done at: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri/+archive/ubuntu/opencv-3.1.0-sync-test/+packages)
[14:20] <apw> mapreri: I don't know of anything other than KDE clogging the ADT queues. You can start without the removal, it will just sit in -proposed until that is resolved one way or another.
[14:21] <mapreri> apw: nice, ack.  So, I'll start (once I'm in a better situation, which might mean tomorrow, fwiw) :)
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-deprecation [source] (artful-proposed) [1.0.1-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [amd64] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [armhf] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [amd64] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [armhf] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [arm64] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [s390x] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [i386] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [i386] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu1]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [s390x] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted evolution [arm64] (artful-proposed) [3.24.2-0ubuntu2]
[15:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-deprecation [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1.0.1-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[16:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-deprecation [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1.0.1-0ubuntu1]
[16:20] <clivejo> apw: regarding the epochs.  We missed the 16.08 release which included those packages in kdepim, then in 16.12 they got split out of src:kdepim and into brand new packages
[16:20] <clivejo> https://community.kde.org/Applications/16.12_Release_Notes
[16:21] <clivejo> kdepim (split into akonadi-calendar-tools, akonadiconsole, akonadi-import-wizard, akregator, blogilo, grantlee-editor, kaddressbook, kalarm, kmail, kmail-account-wizard, knotes, kontact, korganizer, mbox-importer, pim-data-exporter, pim-sieve-editor, pim-storage-service-manager)
[18:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: btrfs-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [4.4-1 => 4.4-1ubuntu1] (core)
[18:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (xenial-proposed/main) [2.02~beta2-36ubuntu3.11 => 2.02~beta2-36ubuntu3.12] (core)
[18:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (xenial-proposed/main) [1.66.11 => 1.66.12] (core)
[18:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (yakkety-proposed/main) [1.74.3 => 1.74.4] (core)
[18:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.02~beta2-36ubuntu11.3 => 2.02~beta2-36ubuntu11.4] (core)
[18:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2 (zesty-proposed/main) [2.02~beta3-4ubuntu2.1 => 2.02~beta3-4ubuntu2.2] (core)
[18:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (zesty-proposed/main) [1.80.1 => 1.80.2] (core)
[19:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapcraft [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.31+17.04]
[19:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapcraft [source] (yakkety-proposed) [2.31+16.10]
[19:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: munge (xenial-proposed/universe) [0.5.11-3 => 0.5.11-3ubuntu0.1] (no packageset)
[19:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: munge (trusty-proposed/universe) [0.5.11-1ubuntu1 => 0.5.11-1ubuntu1.1] (no packageset)
[19:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted snapcraft [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.31]
[20:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lxc [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.0.8-0ubuntu1~16.04.2]
[20:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lxc [source] (yakkety-proposed) [2.0.8-0ubuntu1~16.10.2]
[20:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lxc [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.0.8-0ubuntu1~17.04.2]
[20:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: hw-detect (xenial-proposed/main) [1.117ubuntu2.1 => 1.117ubuntu2.2] (core)
[20:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: hw-detect (yakkety-proposed/main) [1.117ubuntu3 => 1.117ubuntu3.1] (core)
[21:09] <ahoneybun> anyway to get https://babe.kde.org/ into the archive?
[21:09] <ahoneybun> we have debs on our KCI
[21:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted munge [source] (xenial-proposed) [0.5.11-3ubuntu0.1]
[21:41] <jbicha> ahoneybun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[21:41] <jbicha> please file a bug and subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors
[21:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted munge [source] (trusty-proposed) [0.5.11-1ubuntu1.1]
[21:42] <ahoneybun> looking at that list makes me think I don't have a chance tbh jbicha
[21:43] <ahoneybun> almost 2000
[21:43] <jbicha> 2000 what?
[21:44] <ahoneybun> requested packages
[21:44] <jbicha> Debian has 3000+ but new packages get in Debian all the time
[21:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted util-linux [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.27.1-6ubuntu3.3]
[21:45] <jbicha> once you have the packaging done and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, this is the list that will matter first: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[21:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted util-linux [source] (yakkety-proposed) [2.28.2-1ubuntu1.2]
[21:45] <jbicha> although it looks a bit bad, stuff does get sponsored from there regularly
[21:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted util-linux [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.29-1ubuntu2.1]
[21:47] <ahoneybun> mm we'll see
[21:52] <ahoneybun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1698009
[21:54] <jbicha> please mention on the bug where the packaging can be found
[21:56] <ahoneybun> our packaging our the upstream code?
[22:06] <acheronuk> ahoneybun: is babe getting a release?
[22:11] <ahoneybun> well it's beta right now
[22:12] <ahoneybun> 0.5 Beta
[22:35] <acheronuk> ahoneybun: beta release tarballs?
[22:35] <acheronuk> don't see anything @ https://download.kde.org/unstable/
[22:44] <clivejo> there been no releases
[22:44] <ahoneybun> yea I know