[05:47] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[06:42] <willcooke> (early) morning all
[06:44] <flexiondotorg> Goog morning oSoMoN willcooke
[06:44] <duflu> Morning willcooke. And flexiondotorg and oSoMoN
[06:44] <flexiondotorg> Let's try Good morning :-)
[06:44] <flexiondotorg> duflu o/
[06:44] <willcooke> You're at it early as well flexiondotorg
[06:44] <flexiondotorg> Heat
[06:44] <willcooke> :)
[06:44] <willcooke> same
[06:45] <willcooke> duflu, looks like PA got uploaded
[06:45] <flexiondotorg> I'm going to setup in the garden today.
[06:45] <duflu> willcooke: Yep, minutes ago. Hopefully will verify today
[06:45] <duflu> Or tomorrow
[06:45] <willcooke> woot, thanks a lot duflu
[06:46] <duflu> I think I should wipe xenial and start fresh to be sure though
[08:02] <Laney> moin
[08:07] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:07] <seb128> how are things today?
[08:08] <willcooke> Happy summer solstice ubu-druids!
[08:09] <seb128> oh right, already summer
[08:09] <Laney> hey seb128, hey willcooke
[08:10] <Laney> indeed, we're starting the journey to winter
[08:11] <seb128> 31°C today
[08:11] <seb128> looking forward winter
[08:11]  * Laney saves that quote and sets a reminder for 6 months time
[08:11] <Laney> :P
[08:12] <willcooke> 26 weeks to Christmas
[08:12] <Laney> willcooke: why were you on so early?!?!?!
[08:13] <willcooke> Laney, up early, and out this afternoon so figured I'd get a march on email
[08:13]  * duflu tilts head upside down
[08:13] <willcooke> also it's nice and cool
[08:13] <duflu> willcooke, happy winter solstice
[08:13] <willcooke> duflu, :DD
[08:14] <Laney> looks like ubuntu-devel has those duplicate emails too
[08:15] <Laney> duflu: what's winter for you?
[08:15] <willcooke> I'm going to check the moderation queue on desktop and see if anything got stuck that shouldnt have.  I dont have admin rights to devel though
[08:15] <Laney> "17° today, time to get my ski suit out"
[08:15]  * Laney does
[08:16] <duflu> Laney: Winter is sprinting in Europe
[08:16] <duflu> Doesn't happen otherwise
[08:16] <duflu> Laney: OK 5 at night, 20 or less day
[08:17] <willcooke> Laney, queue looks good on desktop - but will wait for a few new mails before declaring it working
[08:18] <duflu> Heh. Why does a TV never look as good at home as it does in the store? Because the manufacturer's in-store demo videos use about 200MB per minute
[08:18] <Laney> willcooke: did you pick action: hold?
[08:19] <willcooke> Laney, yeah
[08:19] <willcooke> I'll change it to "discard" once it's known working
[08:20] <Laney> k cool
[08:20] <Laney> I added one for devel too
[08:56] <Trevinho> Oh happy summer guys
[08:57] <Laney> hey Trevinho
[08:59] <seb128> good morning Trevinho, how is Italy today?
[08:59] <Trevinho> Hey Laney
[08:59] <Laney> you good?
[09:00] <Trevinho> seb128: morning.. It's good... well, I didn't sleep much, but normal...
[09:02]  * Laney puts Ed Miliband on Radio 2 on
[09:05] <seb128> Trevinho, went to some parties again? ;-)
[09:06] <Trevinho> seb128: no, I'm in the middle of nothing now... I had my "party" at my desk...
[09:07] <seb128> coding party!
[09:11] <Trevinho> And... I'm always procrastinating in getting a Nas. I've a raspberry doing something like that (file server and synching mostly), not not the fastest
[09:43] <didrocks> back online!
[09:43] <willcooke> hey didrocks
[09:44] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[09:46] <seb128> hey didrocks, had a good trip?
[09:46] <didrocks> seb128: excellent! thanks! however, seeing the condo being at 27°C even all shutters off for the past few days is scaring :p
[09:47] <Laney> wb didrocks
[09:47] <Laney> enjoy that!
[09:47] <didrocks> ahah, "thanks", I guess?
[09:47] <Laney> wish we had an outdoor pool here to go to
[09:47] <didrocks> same
[09:50] <seb128> didrocks, :-(
[09:52] <didrocks> how are you guys?
[09:53] <seb128> didrocks, good, it's still nice and fresh inside from the night here
[09:54] <jbicha> didrocks: you asked on trello about installing spice-vdagent by default, I already filed MIR bug 1200296 :)
[09:54] <ubot5`> bug 1200296 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[MIR] spice-vdagent" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200296
[09:54] <didrocks> jbicha: rocks! :-)
[09:54] <didrocks> rox* even :p
[09:54] <jbicha> do we want Desktop Bugs subscribed to it?
[09:55] <didrocks> I didn't follow the latest discussions on team subscription there was with cyphermox
[09:57] <didrocks> ok, reintroduction of ubuntu-session as default GNOME shell-based session done, seb128: you will likely have to binNEW ubuntu-session
[09:57] <didrocks> seed updated
[09:57] <didrocks> just need to refresh ubuntu-meta once everything is published
[09:58] <didrocks> is it known s390x being broken?
[09:59] <jbicha> didrocks: my question was more about whether Desktop or Server wanted to take responsibility for spice-vdagent
[10:00] <didrocks> jbicha: do you mind asking the server team? (I doubt they want, but worth asking IMHO)
[10:00] <didrocks> I guess by default, we would
[10:00] <jbicha> I mentioned it to them once and of course, they were not that interested ;)
[10:01] <didrocks> ;)
[10:02] <didrocks> it gives more desktop-like feature than server AFAIK, so makes sense to be on us IMHO
[10:03] <seb128> didrocks, k, I keep an eye on the NEW queue
[10:04] <jbicha> slangasek was asking whether the Desktop Team should be listed as maintainer in d/control for libepc since we're listed as maintaining glom LP: #1698236
[10:04] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1698236 in libepc (Ubuntu) "glom depends on libepc, removed from Debian" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698236
[10:05] <seb128> why are we listed as maintainer of glom?
[10:05] <seb128> that's in universe
[10:05] <seb128> we should probably get our name off this one
[10:05] <jbicha> that's basically what Laney said :)
[10:05] <didrocks> xnox: any idea of the s390x FTBFS? like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu7/+build/12782884
[10:06] <Laney> yes it is
[10:06] <didrocks> (every packages fail the same way)
[10:06] <Laney> not sure why a second opinion is needed
[10:06] <xnox> didrocks, given we do not have firefox on s390x, i would not expect gjs (or what is it called) to be available and I would not expect gnome shell to build or work.
[10:07] <Laney> xnox: look at the log
[10:07] <xnox> hm, that is really really really weird
[10:07] <didrocks> xnox: did you look at the bug? ;)
[10:07] <didrocks> xnox: not only G-S, lightdm, gnome-session… I guess everything fails on that perl missing
[10:07] <jbicha> ok, I'll just upload both with the generic Ubuntu Developers maintainer
[10:07] <didrocks> libdpkg-perl is supposed to be in the sbuild chroot, isn't it?
[10:08] <Laney> it gets removed at the top of the log
[10:08] <jbicha> glom is reasonably well-maintained for a universe pkg so it shouldn't really be a problem
[10:08] <didrocks> oh lovely
[10:08] <seb128> jbicha, +1, I commented on the bug in case murray had some opinion/info about libepc and glom
[10:08] <xnox> we are in a bad bad bad perl transition it seems.
[10:08] <didrocks> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[10:08] <didrocks>   build-essential* dpkg-dev* libdpkg-perl* perl*
[10:08] <didrocks> -> sure sure, go ahead :)
[10:08] <didrocks> and cross fingers :p
[10:08] <didrocks> yeah
[10:08] <didrocks> gcc I think?
[10:09] <seb128> could be, I marked -changes as read this morning
[10:09] <Laney> there was a perl upload too
[10:09] <seb128> there was a stack of haskell uploads spamming the list
[10:09] <seb128> I should put any email with haskell in the title -> /dev/null
[10:10] <didrocks> yeah
[10:10] <didrocks> oh correct, perl as well
[10:10] <xnox> didrocks, Laney, from what i can tell perl:s390x built before perl:amd64 built. With :s390x already published, but not :amd64.
[10:10] <seb128> right
[10:10] <didrocks> lalala
[10:11] <Laney>  perl-base | 5.24.1-3ubuntu1   | artful           | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, s390x
[10:11] <Laney>  perl-base | 5.24.1-4ubuntu1   | artful-proposed  | s390x
[10:11] <Laney> I'd wait until that looks better then retry
[10:11] <xnox> yeap.
[10:11] <didrocks> yes
[10:11] <Laney> that's an unfortunate failure mode
[10:12] <xnox> we really should not publish :arch packages before :all.....
[10:12] <didrocks> anyway: $ watch -n 60 rmadison -s artful-proposed perl-base
[10:12] <didrocks> thanks for your insights guys!
[10:12] <Laney> (H)
[10:13] <jbicha> seb128: he just did a new libepc release this week :) but he said he might just roll libepc into glom directly
[10:14] <seb128> sounds like a good idea if nothing else is using it
[10:21] <xnox> Laney, hm, a simplier solution is to make perl-modules-5.24 be architecture specific package, instead of an arch:all package.
[10:22] <didrocks> seb128: just mentioning it's ready: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gnome-session
[10:22] <seb128> didrocks, k
[10:24] <didrocks> never have been about those workaround (tweaking packages to arch: any)
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, ubuntu-session NEWed
[10:36] <didrocks> seb128: \o/ thanks
[10:36] <seb128> didrocks, yw!
[10:40] <didrocks> seb128: oh, you did NEW it in main btw?
[10:40] <didrocks> (as it's going to be the default session)
[10:40] <seb128> yes
[10:40] <didrocks> perfect!
[10:40] <seb128> :-)
[10:51] <andyrock> late good morning all!
[11:16] <didrocks> weird:
[11:16] <didrocks>  unity-session | 3.24.1-0ubuntu3 | artful/universe | all
[11:16] <didrocks>  unity-session | 3.24.1-0ubuntu4 | artful-proposed | all
[11:16]  * didrocks demotes in proposed again
[13:25] <jdstrand> jamesh: hey, fyi, just wanted to let you know that I saw the portals questions before. there are a few critical items I am working on before I can get to it
[13:34] <cyphermox> willcooke: jbicha: I'd like to express concerns about the MIR requests. for instance, spice-vdagent is cool and all, but at some point, is it really required on the livecd? and if not, then why does it need to be in main and supported by Canonical?
[13:35] <cyphermox> you obviously get to make the decision, but spice-vdagent doesn't scream to me like something that is a showcase of Ubuntu for a desktop that must be on a live image.
[13:40] <Laney> Why did someone retry clutter-1.0/s390x when it had failed earlier today already?
[13:40] <Laney> I retried it this morning.
[13:47] <flexiondotorg> Afternoon desktopers
[13:47] <oSoMoN> afternoon flexiondotorg
[13:47] <kenvandine> howdy
[13:48] <flexiondotorg> oSoMoN kenvandine o/
[13:48] <flexiondotorg> My phone picked up a broadcast warning about severe weather tomorrow. Thunder storms.
[13:49] <flexiondotorg> I for one welcome the rain.
[13:53] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg kenvandine
[13:53] <flexiondotorg> Hi seb128
[13:53] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, main is not only about the iso, it's also about the default install and system you get to use after install
[13:54] <cyphermox> that default install and system you get after the install is coming straight from the squashfs on the iso :)
[13:54] <cyphermox> the most important question is "should Canonical support it?"
[13:54] <cyphermox> but regardless, packages are installable from the archive, that's what I mean. does it need to be installed by default?
[13:55] <cyphermox> I'm just expressing a question as to that particular instance, because it seems odd to me.
[13:55] <cyphermox> I understand rhythmbox, gnome-software, etc.; seems like spice-vdagent is only useful in a fraction of cases, or when other software (that isn't installed by default) is present.\
[13:56] <cyphermox> you can still always install things from the archive, even if they aren't in main
[13:59] <cyphermox> if you tell me "yes, we really do want that installed by default", then there is no problem at all, I'm just questioning to make sure the requests are acknowledged.
[14:15] <seb128> cyphermox, right, I understand why you ask. I don't know about that specific package but Didier mentioned that it makes Ubuntu works better in some VMs setups, so it gives a better "out of the box" experience to people trying the distro this way I guess
[14:15] <seb128> also yeah you can always install things
[14:15] <didrocks> basically without it, you have in a vm:
[14:15] <seb128> but it's nicer when things are great out of the box
[14:15] <didrocks> - no copy/paste
[14:15] <didrocks> - no screen scaling (so you are stuck in 800x600)
[14:16] <cyphermox> that's fair
[14:16] <didrocks> - mouse is grabbed by the vm
[14:16] <Laney> maybe make virt-manager recommend it?
[14:16] <Laney> or spiceclient or whatever it is
[14:16] <cyphermox> Laney: no, it's an agent for the guest.
[14:16] <didrocks> I don't think it's a good first time user-experience
[14:16] <seb128> didrocks, depends of the vm I guess? I've those working in virtualbox
[14:16] <Laney> oh, inside the VM, I see
[14:16] <cyphermox> I understand it better now, thanks guys
[14:16] <didrocks> seb128: you install additional tools :)
[14:16] <didrocks> yw cyphermox ;)
[14:16] <seb128> cyphermox, yw!
[14:16] <didrocks> Laney: yes, client only
[14:17] <seb128> didrocks, anyway I agree with you in any case (on the usefulness, I did look at the code to see if it's buggy or not and how maintainable it is)
[14:17] <didrocks> I don't remember the vbox name, it's like "extra tools" or something you trigger in the menu
[14:17] <seb128> didn't*
[14:17] <didrocks> same
[14:17] <didrocks> I just put it as a trello card to remember someone needs to look at it MIR-wise
[14:17] <didrocks> jbicha just went ahead and filed the Mir :)
[14:18] <didrocks> knowing it's installed by default on fedora, I think it's interesting to look at it at least
[14:19]  * cyphermox wonders if it shouldn't be installed as a driver based on some heuristic rather than everywhere by default
[14:20] <didrocks> cyphermox: vms without network? (I'm thinking about the live session experience)
[14:20] <Laney> you can have things in the pool on the CD
[14:20] <didrocks> yeah, true
[14:20] <cyphermox> didrocks: well, I guess I mean in live rather than install
[14:20] <Laney> or live then removed
[14:20] <cyphermox> ^that
[14:20] <didrocks> I wouldn't remove it after your vm install, but yeah, more smartness on ubiquity could hep
[14:20]  * cyphermox has been looking into just that for ubiquity not being removed right now
[14:21] <didrocks> help*
[14:21] <didrocks> like "live + if not running in vm, remove"
[14:21] <cyphermox> it basically works like; if it's in live and not manually installed too, then it gets removed
[14:21] <didrocks> cyphermox: oh, you are looking into ubiquity not being removed? Nice! (noticed and filed a bug about it)
[14:21] <cyphermox> yeah, I saw your bug
[14:21] <didrocks> ;)
[14:21] <cyphermox> working on reproducing the livefs build here to investigate
[14:22] <didrocks> Laney: some autopkgtests question for you: so update-notifier tests triggered by G-S are failing due to new pep8. I fixed update-notifier and thought "let's click on the refresh/retry button"
[14:22] <didrocks> but it seems it's running still against the older update-notifier version if I'm correct (I guess the one in the release pocket): https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/update-notifier/artful/s390x
[14:23] <didrocks> we need to wait for it to migrate, correct?
[14:23] <didrocks> no way to speed it up by retrying against the one in -proposed?
[14:24] <Laney> pep8 autopkgtests are really hateful
[14:24] <didrocks> +1
[14:24] <Laney> yes you can add extra &trigger=pkg/version to pick things up from proposed
[14:24] <didrocks> that will override and be picked by proposed-migration then?
[14:24] <Laney> but then nothing enforces those things go in together so I prefer that you don't do that in general
[14:25] <Laney> yes
[14:25] <didrocks> hum
[14:25] <didrocks> now that I fixed the pep8 tests, can we hint it?
[14:25] <didrocks> note that there is no hurry
[14:25] <didrocks> if I refresh the ubuntu-meta package tomorrow only, that's fine
[14:26] <didrocks> (and +1, I don't see any rationale of linter tools to be autopkgtests, they should just be unit tests at package build-time)
[14:28] <Laney> do the retry with extra trigger, shouldn't be too long until it gets done
[14:29] <Laney> you can refresh seeds from proposed if you hack the update.cfg btw
[14:29] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, not really legit, but why not :)
[14:29] <Laney> after dist: artful add dists: artful artful-proposed
[14:29] <Laney> IIRC
[14:30] <didrocks> I did something like that for ppas
[14:30] <Laney> then delete it before uploading and nobody will ever know :-)
[14:30] <seb128> k, time for some exercice, hope it's not too warm with the bit of wind outside
[14:30] <didrocks> seb128: good luck!
[14:30] <didrocks> and yes, that should work, because ubuntu-meta will be blocked in proposed as it should remove gnome-session
[14:31] <didrocks> so until lightdm and g-s migrates to drop that need for gnome-session, all 3 will be copied in sync
[14:31] <didrocks> so, should be fine :)
[14:32] <seb128> thanks
[14:32] <didrocks> configparser.NoSectionError: No section: 'artful artful-proposed'
[14:32] <didrocks> failed ;)
[14:33]  * didrocks tries comma
[14:33] <didrocks> ok, let's open configparser.py :p
[14:33] <didrocks> ah, seed_dist: ubuntu.%(dist)s
[14:33] <didrocks> yeah, so basing on this
[14:34] <Laney> you used dists?
[14:34] <didrocks> nope
[14:34] <didrocks> it's below in the config
[14:34] <didrocks> ah
[14:34] <didrocks> dist*s*
[14:34] <flexiondotorg> didrocks I know you're all very busy. But... ;-)
[14:34] <didrocks> it's weird, you need dists AND dist
[14:35] <didrocks> Laney: seems to work :)
[14:35] <flexiondotorg> I've got a couple of new packages I'd really love to see in the 17.10 in time for Alpha 1.
[14:35] <Laney> good
[14:35] <didrocks> I see some -proposed in the tarball being downloaded :)
[14:35] <Laney> I've used it once or twice myself before
[14:35] <flexiondotorg> Could you take a look?
[14:35] <didrocks> flexiondotorg: unsure I'll have time today, could do tomorrow morning
[14:35] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1699333
[14:35] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1699333 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[14:36] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1699334
[14:36] <didrocks> Laney: thanks!
[14:36] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1699334 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel-appmenu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[14:36] <flexiondotorg> didrocks Understood.
[14:36] <didrocks> flexiondotorg: just update and ping on #ubuntu-release
[14:36] <flexiondotorg> didrocks Just update?
[14:36] <didrocks> hum Added ubuntu-session to desktop
[14:37] <didrocks> flexiondotorg: sorry, too many conversations, "just ping" :p
[14:37] <didrocks> ok, sounds like gnome-session isn't removed, as I expected
[14:37] <flexiondotorg> Wilco. Thanks.
[14:39] <didrocks> ah no, that's fine and expected, gnome-session was never a direct dep
[14:41] <didrocks> Laney: on g-s autopkgtests, should I retrigger manually once update-notifier is published in the release pocket or is that automagic?
[14:42] <Laney> no it won't happen automatically
[14:42] <didrocks> ok
[15:39] <andyrock> mpt:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9zy1yE1u/Screenshot%20from%202017-06-21%2017-39-28.png
[15:40] <andyrock> Before I keep working on this, do you agree (more or less ;) ) on the design?
[15:40] <andyrock> or this is completely broken?
[15:41] <mpt> andyrock, that’s … interesting. I’m not sure what it’s showing. What would happen if I unchecked one of the checkboxes?
[15:42] <andyrock> you can't uncheck the checkboxes
[15:42] <mpt> Ever?
[15:42] <andyrock> it's showing the patches applied by canonical-livepatch
[15:42] <mpt> andyrock, could I check the one that’s unchecked?
[15:43] <andyrock> neither
[15:43] <andyrock> it can happen that a patch should be applied but for some reason it's not
[15:44] <andyrock> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/10/canonical-livepatch.html
[15:44] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/hTfuwD8l/
[15:45] <mpt> andyrock, ok, so if you can’t check them, and you can’t uncheck them, they probably shouldn’t be checkboxes :-)
[15:45] <andyrock> so what instead of checkboxes?
[15:45] <andyrock> :D
[15:52] <mpt> Well, *if* this list was appropriate, we should probably show installed status using some kind of checkmark graphic that was clearly different from a checkbox (like Dropbox does for sync status, for example)
[15:55] <andyrock> makes sense
[15:55] <andyrock> what else?
[15:55] <andyrock> and thanks!
[15:56] <mpt> andyrock, how far back does the list go? Is it patches applied in the past day? The past week? The past month? Since the last time update-manager opened?
[15:57] <andyrock> I'll just show what caonical-livepatch status gives me
[15:57] <andyrock> so basically once you restart (likely with the new kernel)
[15:57] <andyrock> the list will be empty
[15:57] <andyrock> if you don't restart the list will get bigger
[15:57] <mpt> understood
[15:58] <mpt> Ok, I’ll think about this overnight … Possibly we could integrate that list into the usual list of updates
[15:59] <gQuigs> andyrock: would that bigger list be hidden by default, behind something like Livepatch: Protected
[15:59] <gQuigs> > click for details
[15:59] <mpt> And the string “LivePatch status” could be something more informative, like “Livepatch has installed 4 updates since you last restarted”
[16:00] <mpt> Anyway, ttyl
[16:41] <willcooke> ar'noon
[16:41]  * willcooke back
[16:54]  * Laney nods willcooke 
[16:56] <kenvandine> hey willcooke
[16:58] <oSoMoN> hey willcooke
[17:02] <willcooke> TOOOOOOO hot
[17:02] <willcooke> :(
[17:15] <Laney> laters
[18:27] <andyrock> gQuigs: sorry I missed the ping
[18:28] <andyrock> yeah it's hidden by default
[18:42] <willcooke> night all
[18:48] <kenvandine> i'm really missing the battery life of my ubuntu phone, these background services are such a drain
[18:48] <kenvandine> my samsung was at 100% 6 hours ago... nearly dead now :(
[20:09] <immu> hi any plans for incorporating Pipewire in Ubuntu?
[20:13] <jbicha> immu: I believe it had its 0.1 release yesterday so I don't think we've had a chance to look at it yet
[20:19] <immu> really, where can i have a look at it, it didn't make any noise yet
[20:19] <immu> 17.10 is turning to be a big release jbicha :)
[20:21] <immu> Pipewire is Fedora's pet project right?
[20:23] <xnox> what is pipewire?
[20:23] <xnox> i can't find any real website about it
[20:25] <immu> you can read about it here https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2017/06/20/fedora-workstation-26-and-beyond/