/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/07/01/#lubuntu.txt

nistonceOh, yeah, systemd-resolved doesn't seem to be the best software in general. I checked some Ubuntu VMs I had in response to that issue and they were 16.04 and not running systemd-resolved. Apparently its design isn't great...00:00
Kamilionand I tend to use openvswitch, so I'm not really affected by any of the churn in networkmangler or systemd's networkplan stuff.00:00
KamilionI like what I'm seeing with systemd and nplan00:00
Kamilionbut it's not where I need it to be yet to get openvswitch shoved in there and happy.00:00
KamilionI'm hoping 18.04 will be more advantagious00:01
nistonceI'd like to think that's why they're bringing it in in 17.10, to get it ready for 18.04, by which point they'll not be trying anything too likely risky.00:02
Kamilioneh, xen's release cadence and canonical's don't really coincide00:02
Kamilionand 14.04 was a lot better at deploying newer releases on xen on LTS00:02
nistonceoh?00:03
nistonceThat's surprising00:03
Kamilion16.04's reliance on 4.6.5 is kind of... an odd move00:03
Kamilionnot that I'm complaining, I didn't see much value in the xen 4.7 or 4.8 releases00:03
Kamilionand the security issues were resolved with 4.6.5's release00:03
Kamilionbut it strikes me more as "we're too lazy to bother updating the whole toolstack to support the new features, so just wait until we are"00:04
Kamilionand pushing fresh qemus out to everyone with SRUs also doesn't seem to be a wonderfully great idea00:05
Kamilionso really, they're stuck 'tween a rock and a hard place.00:05
KamilionSometimes the best move is simply to abstain.00:05
nistonceIt sounds like it may be partly a temporary timeline misalignment that eventually both Ubuntu LTS and Xen will reconverge (independently) to something improved00:14
Kamilionyep, 4.9's released, and 4.10 should cement the new pvops stuff before 18.04, hopefully.00:15
nistoncebzr's 'progress bar' is worse than https://www.xkcd.com/612/ -- at least there, the endpoint is know, but bzr branch will show X/Y, 2*X/Y, etc, then whoops, sorry, it's actually of Y*1000:19
nistonceSo even knowing the speed it's downloading doesn't help00:19
nistoncezram apparently does help a lot: https://bryanquigley.com/memory-usage/ubuntu-16-04-livecd-memory-usage-compared (not news here, presumably, but I hadn't realized)00:49
Kamilionabsolutely, and I'd highly recommend it for any non-secure workloads.00:59
KamilionSeen AMD's slides for Ryzen Pro and EPYC yet? Supposed to support some interesting memory encryption shenanigans01:00
nistonceI could see that it'd add a horrific sidechannel for any sensitive workloads though, to be fair to the ubiquity people on this01:00
nistonceI'm simultaneously learning (by looking at how it does this) how it could be fixed and growing less convinced it's a net positive to fix :p01:00
* Kamilion chuckles01:01
KamilionUbiquity is hack with hacks layerd on hacks01:01
nistonceYeah, it's quite encouraging to see memory encryption get slightly more mainstream01:01
Kamilionand keep in mind that things are always churning around it01:01
Kamilionlike the switch to aufs01:02
nistonceEspecially for slightly-more-trusted cloud guest VMs01:02
nistonceIt's actually a substantial attack surface mitigation01:02
Kamilionoverlayfs and just something as simple as tail were a nightmare to deal with01:02
nistonceYeah, a twisty maze of (self-)recursively called shell scripts01:03
nistoncea few of which deign to use set -e, but otherwise..01:03
Kamiliontip: use "tail ---disable-inotify -f FILE" on overlayfs01:03
nistonceLooks brittle01:03
Kamilionthat's TRIPLE dash.01:03
Kamilionand also undocumented. XD01:03
Kamilionso yeah, I'm quite thankful we're now on aufs where things don't go all weirded out at the slightest edge case01:04
nistonceThat might be the first triple-dash GNU/Linux option I've seen...01:04
Kamilionyep. I know it suprised the hell out of me to know it existed.01:04
nistonce(if anything, a lot of the outside cloud-related management commandline software I use, e.g., for AWS, goes back to single dashes)01:04
Kamilionand doubly so to learn it solved my issue01:04
nistonceAny idea why they didn't use --disable-inotify instead?01:05
nistonceor Google's cloud offerings, also a lot of -single-dash switches01:05
Kamilionin general inotify doesn't fail except under certain edge cases like half-retarded stacking filesystems01:05
Kamilionand it's so well-worn that fanotify responds to inotify now01:06
nistonceDoesn't fanotify not support everything inotify does?01:07
nistonceI haven't used either much so am not sure of details though01:07
Kamilionand has replaced it. yes.01:07
Kamilionanything that calls inotify is calling fanotify behind a shim, AFAIK01:08
nistonceAh, first sentence of StackOverflow question on this: "fanotify, built on top of fsnotify, is supposed to replace inotify which replaced dnotify"01:08
Kamilionhence my comments on constant churn.01:12
nistonceIMO the most principled way to change ubiquity that I've so far spotted is for d-i/source/partman-base/parted-server.c to recognize that /dev/zram* isn't actually of type linux-swap no matter what it looks like01:12
nistonceBecause while one could still argue it's a bad idea, it's not a bad idea to use with zram for the reason the scary dialog box says01:13
Kamilionif I recall correctly, d-i indicates it came from debian-installer01:13
KamilionI don't know how much the two share, code-wise.01:13
nistonceHuh, so that'd be where to go with any patches, okay01:13
Kamiliondunno -- it may be a fork, it may be a submodule, I've never looked into it.01:13
nistonceI was confused about that, since when I bzr branched the ubiquity project, it didn't contain this error message at ll, but the tarball from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+source/ubiquity does01:14
nistonce(and also include d-i, etc)01:14
Kamilionsubmodule, yeah.01:14
Kamiliongit makes that easy01:14
Kamilionbzr and subversion have their own wyrding way01:14
nistonceThe less risky way is to just change ./d-i/source/partman-crypto/check.d/unsafe_swap but it's not completely trivial, since I'm not sure it passes enough information along from when it accumulates partition information to where it checks things on that list, so it's not just a one-liner, I think01:16
nistoncehttps://pastebin.com/Lu4U7Gi301:18
nistonceso in that first while loop, add a check for whichever of type/fs/path/name/etc identify zram01:19
nistonceand continue (skip that device being accumulated), etc. But this is simple-looking enough I'm skeptical/wary of that there were reasons it didn't happen before. zram just doesn't have the properties that disk-backed swap does, such that https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=381870 would apply (for which that unsafe_swap check was added)01:21
ubottuDebian bug 381870 in partman-crypto "Does not prevent setup of unencrypted swap" [Important,Fixed]01:21
nistonceso either they should remove it or reword it to address the more subtly bad security properties that zram has, side-channelwise, if one cares about disk encryption to begin with. either way, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/145919591/unsafeswap.png is bullshit.01:22
nistonceah, indeed, it's a submodule at https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/d-i/partman-crypto.git/tree/check.d/unsafe_swap01:32
nistoncee.g., https://pastebin.com/8prjBU1d is a concept patch01:40
Kamilionoh, I should mention, by default, the livecd behavior will derp around the disks looking for swap partitions and swapon -a anything it finds.04:19
Kamilionand, even more annoyingly, there's at least two or three places where this occurs, and I couldn't track them all down04:20
Kamilionand swapoff -a doesn't actually do what it says on the tin04:22
Kamilionhttps://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/blob/62e8bc0260057b1f73e1c214a063bd4dac6bc938/tools/xenial/deploy/pre-update.sh04:22
Kamilion    # We have no idea how many disks are connected. Hopefully it's less than 96.04:23
Kamilion    for i in {0..96}; do         swapoff -a     done04:23
nistonceThat's kind of insane04:23
Kamilionyou have no idea. What was more insane was 48 wasn't enough the first time around *sob*04:23
Kamilionthough, this has ended up being useful in *so* many other places.04:24
Kamilionhttps://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/blob/62e8bc0260057b1f73e1c214a063bd4dac6bc938/tools/xenial/deploy/update-repos.sh04:24
Kamilionstash, pull, pop... works *suprisingly* well.04:25
Kamilionespecally since some of the stuff in here has a chance of being changed in early runtime by the roles scripts04:27
Kamilionhttps://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/tree/master/resources/xenial/config04:27
nistonceThat looks handy, yeah.04:27
nistonceSeems like it would backfire occasionally, but your comment does note that04:27
Kamiliongenerally only barfs if there's local changes to something the remote side has updated04:28
Kamilionhence the segmentation in my repo of the three major zones, buildscripts, tools, and resources04:28
nistonceDoes stash pop use the full git merge capabilities?04:29
Kamilionyeah04:29
Kamilionbut it can't deal with some merges04:29
Kamilionhence the warning comment04:29
nistonceI see you love various popular PHP packages. :p04:30
Kamilionif you change something locally, stash it, and that segment of the file's updated remotely, popping the stash may require additional input to resolve04:30
Kamilions/love/loath/i04:31
nistonceStill, it seems like a nice middle ground -- handles merges where feasible, better than most other easily accessible methods, and doesn't fail any worse when it can't04:31
Kamilionnone of my images contain PHP or anything php related04:31
KamilionI made a personal rule to stick with the languages shipped on the existing livecd04:31
Kamilionso by and large it's mostly python based tools and libraries.04:32
Kamilionyou cannot have an ubuntu system without python -- it's required by the package manager.04:32
nistonceSeems reasonable. And while PHP's improving, apparently, designwise, there's some ridiculous stuff in the past -- the hash function formerly being len(function name), so to distribute among buckets, manually ensuring various similar functions are inconsistently named so that they have different lengths, etc.04:32
Kamilionpretty much everything else is optional at this point, including perl04:32
Kamilionhttp://www.phpsadness.com/sad/4704:33
Kamilionnuff said04:33
Kamilion$ php -r 'var_dump("61529519452809720693702583126814" == "61529519452809720000000000000000");'04:33
Kamilionbool(true)04:33
nistonceAnd a lot of that stuff in the past is still present because new people learning PHP find tutorials, etc from a decade ago or similar04:33
nistonceSo it's never going away04:33
Kamilion`suppose the $password is "ximaz", which has an all-numeric hex-encoded MD5 hash of "61529519452809720693702583126814"`04:33
Kamilion"oh gee, that looks like a float to me, *truncated*"04:33
Kamilionwell, you're just a shitty programmer, you SHOULD have used ===...04:34
nistonceThat seems unsafe to expose to external data04:34
Kamilionwhat the hell is ===?!04:34
nistonceAnd unsafe in a way a lot of people won't realize04:34
Kamilionbingo.04:34
KamilionPHP is filled to the brim with "I need to pay an engineer more money to think" pitfalls, built in04:34
Kamilionand you tend to see the same trend with large PHP applications that aren't fully open source.04:35
nistonceYeah, for all the apologetics for it I've seen, that it's just a matter of learning the quirks, it sure does seem to have a lot of such quirks, and more severe ones than I see the tu quoque responses unearthing in Python or even Perl or...04:36
Kamilionand the larger they are, the bigger the attack surface... and no, we wouldn't DARE think about making small modular microservices... of course not, SERVER SIDE INCLUDE ON EVERY PAGE04:36
nistonceC or C++ might be dangerous, but at least it's in mostly well-advertised ways, where there are real gains to be had04:36
KamilionIt actively encourages bad practices.04:36
Kamilionyeah.04:37
KamilionAnd one of my reasons for sticking with python04:37
Kamilionif it's not fast in python, import a C/C++ library that does it faster.04:37
nistonceAnd, I've found the Python issue with Ubuntu myself recently too -- wanted to try Python 3.6, but it's not default anywhere04:37
Kamilionno need to overoptimize.04:37
nistonceeven in 17.1004:37
nistonceSo yes, one can get a PPA or etc, but then one has to compile any module one uses because any binary module only is packaged so far for Python 3.504:38
Kamilionwell, there's not a lot of changes between 3.5 and 3.6 from an application designer's perspective, just minor syntax sugar improvements; mostly on the async side.04:38
nistoncef strings look interesting, but that falls into the first category04:38
Kamilionbut that's also one of python's shortfalls... It's event reactors are nice, but...04:38
Kamilionhttps://github.com/channelcat/sanic04:38
Kamilionnodejs's libuv just blows most others out of the water.04:38
Kamilionand uvloop is just so easy to take advantage of now04:39
Kamilionand it works well on windows too.04:39
Kamilionsame python code runs lots more places, which is nice when you don't try to control your developer workstations04:39
Kamilionwho cares as long as the wirebytes aren't crazy.04:40
nistonceWell-written Python can be quite fast, apparently. Here, it looks like it's mostly functioning as glue between a lot of C libraries04:40
Kamilionthat's where python shines. Gluing together lots of faster code04:40
Kamilionand one of the biggest reasons it's seen such popularity in scientific computing04:41
nistonceStill, its lack of concern for speed does get me sometimes -- there's a base64 encoder/decoder in the base64 module, literally several times slower than one it wraps that's just a C function in the binascii module, because it runs a few lines of Python code.04:41
Kamilionpython's also doing a lot more under the hood, with variable types, for instance.04:42
nistonceAnd optimizing Python can too easily become a game of obfuscating it because function calls are so slow (Py3.6 improves this, to some degree, reportedly)04:42
KamilionPython's Decimal type still makes me squee inside as 'something they did right the first time'04:42
Kamilionthey did improve the bytecode a bit in 3.6, that's true04:42
nistonceOr, because variable access is kind of slow, repeating the same constant values across the code, making maintenance harder04:43
Kamilionand there's other methods still, such as pypy or even JITting machine code out04:43
Kamilionhttp://deeplearning.net/software/theano/04:43
KamilionTheano's really good about machine code emission04:43
Kamilionboth on the CPU and on GPUs04:43
nistonceBut the code measurably faster. etc. Lots of this sort of thing, so it ends up seeming like Python just wasn't designed to be optimized except insofar as one figures out how to call out of Python ASAP04:43
Kamilionyep.04:43
KamilionDon't overoptimize.04:44
Kamilionprototype, make it work, optimize what's slow until it works the way you need it.04:44
KamilionI started out with pure python scrypt constructs while I was working to understand it, then moved towards the C extension once I knew what I was doing.04:44
Kamilion6 hashes per second with pure python code04:45
Kamilion2364 hashes per second with the C wrapper around libscrypt.04:45
Kamilionbut, then I have to have pip around, and the c compiler, and all the headers...04:45
nistonceAnything per-byte or per array index or per etc I've found to have that kind of mismatch, yeah04:46
nistonceHits the VM hard04:46
KamilionSo, kamikazi has pip around, and the c compiler, and all the headers... and compiled versions of libscrypt and uwsgi...04:46
KamilionIn general it's pretty much set up to be a workable python development system out of the bag04:47
Kamilionplus, well, in order to support DKMS, I had to have that same baggage around...04:47
nistonceThe need to have those does conflict somewhat with one of Python's main advantages, to which you alluded -- it's got a reasonably batteries-included approach which makes it one of the only usable language environments on Windows outside something JVM-based or similar.04:47
Kamilionopen-vm-tools and sysdig both being dkms modules.04:47
Kamilionruby's alright on windows, as is go04:48
Kamilionperl's fine too as long as you don't try relying on tk or other gui stuff04:48
Kamilionbut anything that relies on sh -c generally fails hard04:48
nistonceGo packages seem to have a habit of pulling random packages from github without any clear indication of what sort of build environment they'd need04:49
nistonceDitto Ruby, in my brief(er) experiments04:49
Kamiliongo shares the java idea that packages can have a namespace on the greater internet04:49
Kamilionand I do appreciate that04:49
KamilionRuby, on the other hand... Nnnnnnghhhhhhhh.04:49
KamilionSO MUCH ANGER. SO LITTLE TIME.04:50
Kamilionthe whole gems thing and RVM is just oh. mi. gawd.04:50
nistonceSure, for their design intentions, Go executes better than most languages I've tried04:50
Kamilionit spits out a static binary.04:50
Kamilionreally no different than gcc or llvm clang's output04:50
Kamilionon the up side, it can also spit out dynamic modules (.so) that python is more than happy to load04:51
Kamilionso mixing go and python is a real good way to get concurrency and adaptability04:51
nistonceIt does makes sense given that that Docker, etc have picked up on using it. It's a good language for a lot of things for which there wasn't a good, widespread language before04:51
KamilionRust too.04:51
nistonceI know they tried to lure C programmers in, but IMO Go works best as a kind of faster Python04:52
Kamilionwell, the thing with docker is, containers have an average lifetime of about 2.45 days before they're simply destroyed and replaced by a newer version04:52
KamilionAnd with go spitting out static binaries... that can kind of clash04:52
KamilionI've already seen a couple instances where developers have ended up losing their go sources and being stuck with this opaque go binary they can't do anything further with04:53
nistonceI knew Rust emphasized C interop, but hadn't realized Go did. Neat.04:53
Kamilionmachine code on disk is machine code on disk.04:53
nistonceHow's that different from any other compiled language though, in principle?04:53
Kamilionwell, python's compiled bytecode (.pyc) that's interpreted04:54
nistonceSure, but some languages care more about keep to C calling conventions, name mangling, etc.04:54
KamilionJVM does some similar stuff04:54
nistonceAnd some are happy to live in their own world04:54
Kamilionand the whole .net ecosystem uses CIL as an intermediary bytecode before rendering real machine code04:54
Kamilionwhich I thought was a very neat approach04:54
Kamilionand allows the same CIL to be specialized for ARM or AMD64 or SPARC04:55
Kamilionwithout having the original source code04:55
nistonceSure. I guess I consider .pyc files barely-compiled. However, for the class of languages that compile to machine code, I don't see how Go makes it particularly harder to preserve source code. Most such languages don't embed source by default in object code, unless one intentionally enables debug symbols, etc.04:56
Kamilionso "a better idea than OSX Universal Binaries" which are just a bunch of ELF binaries for various architectures tar'd up. (It's more complex than that)04:56
nistonceGranted, by comparison with Python, the JVM, or .Net, it's more opaque.04:56
KamilionAs far as I know, during the go compilation, the binary is only partially stripped04:56
Kamilionso I don't think it has full debug symbols, but I think it does still have the basic dwarf symbols and function name mappings04:57
Kamilionand line number definitions04:57
Kamilionbut I'm not a Go pro.04:57
nistonceSo that's as much as any language I'm familiar with of its class. (But yeah, I've only written a couple of toy programs in Go.)04:57
Kamilionkinda picking up bits and pieces of it as I go along04:57
Kamilionsame. Couple little microservice responders that spit a blob of JSON over a socket04:58
Kamilionand python+flask app that uses jinja2 to make the pages that request those JSON blobs04:58
Kamilionjinja2 does it's job well, I find.04:58
nistonceSounds like the sort of thing it was designed for04:58
Kamilionand it's general purpouse, not just html specific like PHP tends to be04:59
KamilionI've used it to template nginx configs, all kinds of stuff.04:59
Kamilionand flask is so simple and reliable because it doesn't *DO* anything04:59
Kamilionwerkzeug does all the work, flask just defines a URL routing scheme and kind of says "yeah, I'm here so jinja2 is too, because it's one of my requirements"05:00
Kamiliondefines a couple useful annotations too05:00
Kamilionbut 90% of anything useful in a flask app is done by extensions like flask-login or flask-principal or flask-bouncer or flask-classy (which replaces the URL routing!)05:00
nistonceBut it picks up some of PHP's onboarding strengths, I think, in being opinionated with reasonable default libraries packaged with every Go installation to start with. While Scala, Rust, Clojure, etc cycle through HTTP, JSON, etc libraries, never so far really annointing any as a widespread usable default, Go just ships with one. It may not be the best, but it works.05:00
nistonceA very PHP ethos.05:01
nistonceBut with reasonable design backing it.05:01
Kamilionactually, go ships with a couple, and points you at a couple more.05:01
Kamilionyou've got your choice of at least three HTTP compatible responders05:01
nistonceStill less fragmented, so far as I can tell05:01
Kamilionone that's HTTP2+TLS only, one that's HTTP2+HTTP1.1, and another pure HTTP1.1 minimal responder.05:02
Kamiliononly the former actually bothers touching things as low as the TCP level05:02
Kamilionthe other two are like "yeah, gimme a socket."05:02
Kamilionand then you can always just ask for more with their fancy namespaced requirements05:03
nistonceThe glory of JSON in Scala: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8054018/what-json-library-to-use-in-scala (yes, the main answer's from 2013, but the 'best' answers change every year through at least 2015)05:03
Kamilionlike https://caddyserver.com/05:03
Kamilionheh, even python has that problem05:03
KamilionI've been using ujson lately for performance stuff05:04
Kamilionbut that's generally when I have to parse05:04
nistonceThose seem interestingly different enough (HTTP2+TLS, HTTP2+HTTP1.1, and pure HTTP1.1) that I don't consider those duplicate functionality05:04
nistonceThere's just almost no overlap at all between the first and last for example05:04
Kamilionflask's built in 'jsonify' is pokey but more than enough to deal with a 20kb response05:04
Kamilionwell, HTTP2 requires TLS, it's part of the spec05:04
Kamilionso the middle one basically sits on top of the left and right code05:05
nistonceDitto on ujson. Surprisingly fast.05:05
Kamilionand upgrades HTTP1.1 to 2.0 if possible, switching on TLS in the process.05:05
nistonceAnd its source is straightforward -- no real tricks that I spotted.05:05
Kamilionyep.05:05
KamilionI goof around with Unity3D games05:05
Kamilionso json's kind of a big thing for moving stuff back and forth for me05:05
Kamilionyaml's kind of partially supported but not exposed...05:06
Kamilionand their default object serialization is JSON based anyway, so trying to farf around with YAMLizing it would be counterintuitative05:06
nistonceSo that HTTP library responder organization seems completely reasonable -- not duplicating things, but just nicely factoring them out.05:07
nistonceJSON's supported everywhere so05:07
Kamilionand Unity's all C# based... and not just C#... an old old version of mono 3.10...05:07
Kamilionso .net 3.5 is basically as far as you get.05:08
nistonceEven the newish Unity 5.x versions?05:08
Kamilionyep.05:08
Kamilionyou get a couple .net 4 features like linq05:08
Kamilionbut it won't be until Unity 2017's release (they've deprecated major/minor version numbers for a year/month scheme) that we actually see deep architecture improvements05:09
nistonceOdd on the surface they haven't updated to newer Mono05:09
Kamiliondidn't need to -- the bytecode interpreter is reasonably robust05:09
nistonceI saw that. Was confused what it operationally meant -- whether they'd just do everything incrementally, or just abandon version numbers.05:09
Kamilionthey've upgraded the bytecode compiler several times though05:10
Kamilionso there's an experimental build right now with the microsoft roslyn C# 6.0 compiler, that emits CIL bytecode still compatible with mono 3.10.05:10
Kamilionwhich is kind of interesting on a technical level05:11
Kamilionand other forum posts that have 3rd party'd it beforehand (almost 2 years ago now)05:11
nistoncePart of the .Net core initiative, or?05:11
Kamilionthe compiler, yes; I don't know what they're going to do about "dotnet"05:11
KamilionI believe they've gone and joined microsoft's little group, but it's unclear if they'll move to dotnet or mono405:12
nistonceI'm sort of surprised the licensing aspects worked out with Roslyn05:12
Kamilionso far everything I've seen has pointed towards mono4 + the roslyn C#6 compiler05:12
nistonceMS hasn't always made it easy to redistribute their components05:13
Kamilion*chuff*05:13
Kamilionhttps://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/05:13
KamilionSoon as they pitched him on the curb, things got a lot better, for the Samba team and novell05:14
lynorianAnd now he has a basketball team05:14
nistonceAh, MS in full embrace/extend/extinguish era bloom05:14
nistonceIt's sort of amazing how much more open their new CEO (forget his name)'s made them05:15
KamilionThere's so many comments I could make against that, but I'll leave it with "All the sport team owners I've ever seen have been pretentious jerks with very few morals"05:15
Kamilionehh, I have some points of contention on that one05:15
Kamilionhe pushed the windows 7 development model into small teams that tended to write code and test it, and only check into the main branch when the tests passed05:16
Kamilionand that made 7 one of the better released so far, and one of the bigger reasons why so many have latched onto it05:16
Kamilionthen broke that model up for 8 and 10, and it's unsuprising why they can be brittle05:17
Kamilionbut the servicing side definitely learned a lot from linux05:17
Kamilionthe whole WIM model is a lot more linux-package-manager-transaction-like than ever05:17
nistonceThe larger complaints I've mostly seen about 8 and 10, at least, haven't been obviously related to code quality, though some correlation might exist, but rather to clearly intentionally designed anti-user hostility.05:18
nistonceI've lost count of how many programs claim to remove Win10's spying/telemetry05:18
KamilionI dunno. I feel microsoft did their best work around the pre-7-post-7 time... .NET had major improvements, powershell became a very nice tool...05:18
Kamilion*chuff*05:18
nistonceSure, and they've picked up other aspects of that in Chocolatey, etc.05:18
Kamilionwhich of course is not possible, because they've shoved the telemetry right inside the visual studio runtime dlls now05:18
Kamilionand that even infests machines as old as XP and vista that run apps built with visual studio 2015/201705:19
nistonceHad not realized/known that. Disappointing, but unsurprising.05:19
Kamilionand also wine :D05:20
nistonceThey already retroactively added it to 7 and 8.x.05:20
Kamilioninstalling the visual C++ runtimes on wine is a real adventure.05:20
Kamilion"you need the msxml package first"05:20
Kamilionends up just googling it and finding out about winetricks05:20
nistonceWell as someone invariably tries with each new malware release and posts on twitter, WINE is surprisingly Windows-compatible for both good and bad ends :p05:20
Kamilionhttps://github.com/Winetricks/winetricks05:21
Kamilionyep05:21
KamilionI assume you saw https://github.com/taviso/loadlibrary ?05:21
KamilionI got quite a few chuckles reading his readme.md05:22
nistonceHah, I hadn't actually. That is funny05:22
nistonceIt's even practical, which is a nice bonus05:22
Kamilionand someone will probably hook it up to python pretty soon05:23
nistonceLooks like that's how he's been finding all those AV 0-days05:23
Kamilion"Microsoft doesn't release public symbols for every build, and sometimes the symbols lag behind for a few months after release. Make sure you're using an mpengine version with public symbols available."05:23
Kamilionhttps://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/23/windows_10_leak/05:24
Kamilionwell, I guess THAT's not a problem anymore05:24
KamilionThe "Shared Source Kit" they point out as being such a big boogeyman... isn't. It IS some source, but for a large bulk of driver-facing codesurfaces, not anything like ntoskrnl.exe05:25
nistonceAt least that will catch people up to current versions05:25
nistonceIt also looks like it's not super-secret to begin with, just somewhat controlled distribution05:26
KamilionBut just the fact that they HAVE a shared source kit now to be able to share with big ODMs is good in my book.05:26
nistonceBlackhats should be assumed to have access to it anyway05:26
Kamilionpfft05:26
Kamilionhttps://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2014/11/pulling-jpegs-out-of-thin-air.html\05:26
Kamilionhttps://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2014/11/pulling-jpegs-out-of-thin-air.html05:26
Kamilionwe have AFL05:27
Kamilionand mixing AFL and loadlibrary is going to end up with some fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun05:27
nistoncehah, I like those possibilities05:27
nistonceI guess with tools that powerful, source access isn't as important anyway05:28
Kamilion"At this point, the fuzzer managed to synthesize the valid file header - and actually realized its significance. Using this output as the seed for the next round of fuzzing, it quickly starts getting deeper and deeper into the woods."05:28
Kamilion"Within several hundred generations and several hundred million execve() calls, it figures out more and more of the essential control structures that make a valid JPEG file - SOFs, Huffman tables, quantization tables, SOS markers, and so on..."05:28
Kamilionmostly thanks to libjpeg barfing at every 'bad' input05:28
Kamilionstill, afl blows my mind.05:29
KamilionIt's basically flatline dixie in a github repo.05:29
Kamilionhttps://www.redbubble.com/people/wolfecreative/works/17996500-dixie-flatline-warning-label-sticker-white?grid_pos=87&p=sticker&rbs=aeb8b144-175c-40af-bcb4-8dc23a49cda1&ref=shop_grid05:29
nistonceSure, even given that JPEG parsing seems to be specifically amenable to this, that level of automatic structure discover's quite an achievement05:31
Kamilionhttp://imgur.com/a/knY8l   https://n-o-d-e.net/cyberdeck64.html  http://i.imgur.com/zcxb6qk.png05:31
Kamilionthe slide out display in that still tickles my inner geek05:31
Kamilionit's just too bad he ran with the MATE image instead of the Lubuntu one...05:32
Kamilion(super thanks to flexiondotorg for his work on MATE and Lubuntu for the Pis)05:33
nistonceThat's one of the more interesting, I guess I'll call it a kind of (fictional) retrocomputing, where form factor's the trickier part05:35
nistonceprojects that I've seen, and, it is quite appealing05:35
Kamilionyep. Good use for a commodore 64C case05:35
nistonceThe slide out display is one of the best parts05:36
Kamilionhttps://www.redbubble.com/shop/cyberpunk+stickers05:36
KamilionThe stickers "make it" though.05:36
Kamilionespecally the one on the bottom.05:36
Kamilionhttp://i.imgur.com/ixHyqFW.jpg05:37
nistonceThey add a lot of polish to what would otherwise be a more straightforward use of that case, yeah.05:38
Kamilionwhat isn't visible is that this unit was meant for use with a HMD05:38
Kamilionthe slide out screen is apparently hooked to the SPI bus and run at 33Mhz, leaving the HDMI port open05:38
nistonceThe keyboard sort of blatantly doesn't fit with the rest of the aesthetic (the modern shallow laptop-ish style, etc) but the rest is remarkably coherent in all the details05:39
Kamilionthe FN+Enter really makes me grin though05:39
KamilionI know exactly why that's there (Filthy Domain-joined workstationseses! HISSS!)05:40
Kamilionit HAS pushed me towards thinking about the same concept05:41
Kamilionhttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Orange-Pi-Zero-Plus-2-H5/1553371_511302832.html05:41
Kamilionhttps://goo.gl/photos/WqMLAni2FhE27Tm1805:42
nistonceNever dealt with them myself, but read accounts of people who have, and the failure modes can apparently be opaque, and weird stickiness with old domain settings, etc. Apparently not fun to deal with.05:42
KamilionI think I might be able to fit an orange pi zero plus 2 H5 inside of this matias halfkeyboard.05:42
KamilionI've already stuffed an arudino micro in there to replace the old palm pilot serial cable (9600 baud 8n1, thankfully)05:42
nistonceDo they run anything close to mainline Linux?05:43
Kamilionarmbian's got a near-mainline build05:43
nistonceLast time I looked at those SBCs, most of them had some weird old kernel version they were stuck on05:43
Kamilionhttps://www.armbian.com/orange-pi-zero-2-h3/05:43
Kamilionyeah05:43
Kamilionallwinner's been slowly upstreaming stuff05:43
Kamilionand the H2/H3/H5 series are based off the A10/A20's IP blocks, which are pretty well GPL supported now05:44
nistonceThat's encouraging, both the armbian link and Allwinner upstreaming05:44
Kamilionhttp://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Zero_Plus_205:44
Kamiliontheir little NAS board has me really interested05:44
Kamilionhttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Orange-Pi-Zero-NAS-Expansion-board-Interface-board-Development-board-beyond-Raspberry-Pi/1553371_32789632568.html05:45
Kamiliongot a pair of SATA UASP chips on it05:45
Kamilionhttp://www.jmicron.com/PDF/brief/jms578.pdf05:45
Kamilionwhich means SMART and most ATA stuff like Secure Erase should work05:46
Kamilionand UASP continues to work even under USB2.0 fallback (good thing to know!)05:46
nistonceArmbian is certainly good to know about. Still kind of an artifact to have an entire distribution that has to be designed around basically one small quirk (having a different bootloader, etc)05:46
nistonce(different device tree, different kernel)05:47
Kamilionthat's actually being cleaned up right now05:47
Kamilionthe arm64s are being prepped with uEFI tables and other fun annoyances05:47
nistonceI don't know that I'll trust these things too much until pick-your-mainstream-Linux-distribution (okay, not RHEL, probably, but Arch, maybe, or Debian, or Ubuntu, or ...) can run them05:47
nistonceand just swap out a couple of packages05:48
Kamilionso in theory we should have much less of a problem supporting ARM SOCs on arm64/AArch6405:48
nistonceObviously armbian's better than not having armbian05:48
Kamilionfor the most part it's only the original Raspberry pi that has the problem of not being able to run arbitrary distros05:48
Kamilionubuntu made a choice to support arm7 and above, and it's an arm6 device, hence why rasbian needed to exist for it05:48
Kamilionand when linaro went with arm7, so did everyone else.05:48
nistonceSo ARM is finally converging to being a real platform, not just a bunch of random SoCs with random on-chip peripherals with random pinouts05:49
Kamilionnah, we'll still have that for quite a while05:49
Kamiliondevice tree overlays and all kinds of idiotic uboot stuff for the tiny 32bit chips05:49
Kamilionhttps://www.servethehome.com/exclusive-first-cavium-thunderx-dual-48-core-96-core-total-arm-benchmarks/05:49
Kamilionthe real big iron already went uEFI05:49
Kamilionand it's the smaller SoCs that are racing to catch up05:50
KamilionPi3 should have uEFI support fairly soon though05:50
lynorianI mean arm is much better than the joke that is ia-64 which is now dead05:50
nistonceAnd I've seen that its graphics support (upside of not really improving it much between Pi/Pi2/Pi3 is at least there's a stable target for driver development) has been more capable in its open source form lately05:51
Kamilionbut beagleboard (who uses i2c roms to identify Capes) will probably still remain with it's existing setup05:51
Kamilioneh, there's another mali400 driver that's popped up a little while ago05:51
Kamilionbut for the most part, mobile GPUs aren't really well supported in linux outside of vendorblobs and "look what we patched on the android kernel, good luck reusing it anywhere else"05:51
nistonceAt least in c-ray, that chart shows it being more-or-less in the ballpart of competitive05:51
nistonceNeeds 10x the cores to achieve it though05:52
lynorianKamilion, why I do not use android05:52
lynorianis the whole only vendor blobs and can't get anything else to work05:52
Kamilionas long as you stay away from PowerVR, and recently, I heard rumors that apple was moving to their own in-house GPU IP core, and Imagination's about to be up shit creek, because nobody outside of apple likes them, and they've been extremely hostile to the open source community.05:53
Kamilionbut there'll always be some sucker out there with more money than time, and less brains than engineers.05:53
Kamilionit WAS a nice architecture till they spat in FOSS' face.05:54
Kamilionnow arm's malis are really preferable in my opinion, even if the support for them isn't great.05:54
nistonceYeah http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40364662 "Shares in the company more than halved in April when Imagination said that Apple was to stop using its technology."05:55
Kamilionhttp://malideveloper.arm.com/faq/what-are-bifrost-midgard-and-utgard/05:55
Kamilionand guess what, bifrost and midgard both stole PowerVR's thunder05:55
Kamilionin this case, PowerVR's claim to fame, their tiled rendering engine.05:55
Kamilionergh, broken link05:56
Kamilionhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/10375/arm-unveils-bifrost-and-mali-g71/305:56
Kamilionand the nice thing is, the newer designs are mostly based around GL05:56
Kamilionand compute shaders.05:56
Kamilionand I've heard they're much easier to work with than the older mali400 designs05:57
nistonceNew enough GL version that Vulcan works?05:57
Kamilionthe G71 was designed for Vulkan, supposedly.05:58
nistonceOr rather *Vulkan05:58
Kamilionhttps://developer.arm.com/graphics/vulkan/vulkan-drivers05:58
Kamilionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4dWzIagMPM05:59
Kamilionand they've had video samples for 1.3 years now05:59
nistonceAh, should ease driver development -- it looks easier to factor out the chipset-specific parts with Vulkan than the monolithic blob that is GL05:59
Kamilionyeah, the chip is driven from implimenting the specs05:59
Kamilionnice to see ARM finally taking the hint05:59
nistonceSo make good-quality open source drivers in time frames people care about more likely06:00
nistonceWithout needing to reveal too many trade secrets, etc06:00
Kamilionand that's where the story comes to a crashing halt06:00
KamilionOhai, userspace support binary!06:00
nistonceOh, good, GPL workarounds06:00
KamilionEventually someone will stick it under the mmio microscope and reimpliment it06:00
Kamilionbut for now, it's blobby06:01
nistonceI guess better than something tightly bound to a specific ancient Android kernel06:01
KamilionAT LEAST this time it's the sort of granularly blobby that makes it easier to replace section by section06:01
Kamilionunlike AMD's atombios... hoooo.06:01
nistonceFor whatever reason, graphics is just generally a disaster area here, both mobile and desktop.06:02
KamilionI don't think there's anyone who actually WANTS to try and take apart AMD's 8MB bios blob06:02
nistonceHey, at least s3tc's coming out of patent in a few months06:02
Kamilionand what's funny is I'm still missing a 'stupid' ethernet monitor.06:03
nistonceSo people can actually implement GL in open source06:03
Kamilionthe closest I've got is a samsung smart TV with some hacky android-derived apps brutely shoved into it06:03
KamilionI love the *idea* of steam in-home sharing06:04
Kamilionthe implimentation is... Well, it has room for improvement. Heck of a lot better than nvidia's whole Sheild thing06:04
nistonceAren't there dozens of those? https://inconsolation.wordpress.com/ would regularly list network monitors of some sort. Not exactly the sort you're looking for though I think -- too high level/summary view06:04
Kamilionhttp://moonlight-stream.com/06:05
nistonceBut network monitors seem to be next to text editors regarding pointless toy reimplementations06:05
Kamilionyeah, and yet companies keep doing them06:05
Kamilionhttps://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/123/1239113/2840664-onlive.jpg06:05
Kamilion"Remember me?"06:05
Kamilionhttp://store.steampowered.com/app/353380/Steam_Link/06:06
Kamilion"ohai"06:06
Kamilionhttp://www.jide.com/mini06:06
Kamilion"why halo thar"06:06
Kamilionhttps://www.ouya.tv/06:06
Kamilion"I'm not dead, just pining for the fjords... Just kidding, I'm dead."06:07
nistonceI assume they're all incompatible and at least borderline proprietary, undocumented protocols06:07
Kamilionbingo.06:07
Kamilionthey're all doing the same thing06:07
nistonceIt's too bad, because the idea is good06:07
Kamilion"hey ma, I can send input events along the same TCP stream I'm viewing this h264 stream from!"06:08
Kamilionmoonlight works for the nvidia shield and other nvidia streaming receivers06:08
Kamilionand there is an implimentation of the Steam In Home Streaming source for SteamOS06:09
Kamilionbut I don't know if it works for the plain Steam .deb packages06:09
Kamilionor if it could be tinkered with to stream arbitrary content like a desktop.06:09
Kamilionand even RDP has modern optimizations06:10
nistonceWhile it's not great for latency-sensitive games, I'd guess, there are lots of use cases for it06:10
Kamilion"Oh, I see you're watching an h264 stream in that browser, WHY DON'T I JUST FORWARD THE STREAM"06:10
KamilionActually works quite well for latency-sensative games -- 60FPS is about 16ms per frame and human reaction is somewhere between 120ms-200ms for visual motion stimulus to be integrated06:11
nistonceI've seen that ~.2 seconds number elsewhere as a UI threshold for subjectively instant06:11
Kamilionwe CAN react faster by training ourselves; but ye average baseline human that doens't play Quake 3 Arena will end up in that range06:12
Kamilionplus many people have to "stop to read" the screen06:12
Kamilionand others will absorb an entire page of text without having to read any of it06:13
lynorianWell maybe f1 2015 which I run on 16.04 not sure of any other racing games06:13
lynorianyes well network latency for text does not matter06:13
Kamilion"for visual motion stimulus to be integrated" meaning for a decision to be made based on events; not just instinct reactionary stimuli like driving06:14
Kamilionbut in other games where loot mechanics come into play06:14
Kamilioninstinct and training can absolutely reduce the delay between hand/eye coordination06:15
lynorianWell loot is a seperate mode for mount and blade warband which can be what I want to call third person crossbow in one mode and then you loot06:16
Kamilionand I credit linux for being the major reason why I *can* parse an entire page of text in one instant; years and years and years of watching dmesg scroll past and picking interesting messages out of it mid-scroll..06:16
lynorianbut for say battle for wesnoth latency will not matter06:16
lynorianKamilion, it pisses my dad off as he cannot read anywhere near as fast as I am06:16
Kamilionlikewise. My dad looks wherever the mouse cursor is06:17
Kamilionlike a young child reading with his finger underlining the word06:17
Kamilionit's so frusterating being able to intuit what the computer will do next versus watch someone else slowly struggle through reading prompts I can dismiss in milliseconds06:18
lynorianyes06:19
Kamilionto me that dialog box is like the license plate on my car06:19
KamilionI've seen it so many hundreds of times, it's information is burned into my brain06:20
lynorianKamilion, I think I know ubiuqity dialog prompts better than the liscense plates on cars I drive06:20
Kamilion*chuckle*06:20
Kamilioni remember a couple years back... I think it was 13.10... had two typos in the ubibuity slides06:21
lynorianThen again there was a vm graphics side where every other letter was missing and I could get it to install06:21
KamilionSecuruity and Imstallation06:22
KamilionI still laugh inwardly whenever I remember that06:22
Kamilionlike hearing a child say "aminal"06:23
lynorianat least those are fairly easy to fix if you report a bug06:23
Kamilionthey were fixed before release; they only showed up in the dailys06:23
Kamilionand I only remember that because 13.04 and 13.10 were real cluster---- releases for me06:24
Kamilion13.10 is basically the reason why I don't bother with .10 releases now *sigh*06:25
lynorianKamilion, I wasn't testing then06:25
lynorianI started with 14.0406:25
Kamilion16.10 would have ended up breaking a whole bunch of random stuff for me06:25
Kamilionso glad I didn't even bother spending time on 16.10/17.0406:25
Kamilionspeaking of which06:25
lynorianhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1380774 this bug is a bit funny looking back06:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1380774 in apt (Ubuntu Utopic) "debian-installer does not find kernel" [Critical,Fix released]06:26
Kamilionmy lxqt 16.04 installation is getting a bit long in the tooth06:26
lynorianyeah06:26
Kamilionhas anyone actually fixed any of the lxqt packages?06:26
Kamilionor am I still stuck on ... 0.10? I think?06:26
Kamilionmaybe 0.1106:26
lynorian0.11 is in artful I know06:26
lynorianand probably zesty06:26
lynorianI do not think they are in 16.0406:27
Kamilionyeah, pcmanfm says it's 0.1006:27
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyJTx/e3b0ae7b29.png06:27
Kamilionoutside of the desktop-not-resizing bug, I havn't really run into anything outright broken.06:28
Kamilionroot window doesn't update when the display server changes resolutions06:29
lynorianKamilion, I remember that it is fixed in .1106:29
Kamilionwhich is easy to trigger in VMWare Worksation by View -> "Fit Guest Now"06:29
Kamilionoh good.06:29
Kamilionnow if someone would PPA 0.11 for 16.04, I'd be all set, lol06:30
* Kamilion eyes simon06:30
Kamilioneh, he's got enough to do already06:30
lynorianKamilion, I think the Qt version changed as well06:30
Kamilionalso, I love that lxqt has a windows 7 taskbar icon-only mode06:31
Kamilionso much less ugly than Lubuntu's LXDE defaults... http://puu.sh/wyK1m/426b9e52bb.png06:32
lynorianKamilion, I hate stacked windows so want the text but I want to know if the default way too long06:32
Kamilionwhich are so much less ugly than LXDE's defaults... XD06:32
KamilionHm? Stacked windows?06:32
Kamilionnot sure what you're referring to...06:33
lynorianon the taskbar06:34
lynorianI want one taskbar for one window06:35
Kamilionohh06:35
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyK8e/6a0361377a.jpg06:35
KamilionSo you don't like this?06:35
Kamilionthe way they stack, EG, Explorer, Chrome, Putty, Paint.net, Notepad?06:35
lynorianyes I do not like that06:35
Kamilionyeah, win7+aero tends to make that work well, but LXQT's windowselector is not on par06:36
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyKc2/a82e52f4b4.jpg06:36
lynorianAlthough it is easy to make the panel have say a stop menu06:37
KamilionI find it's really easy to navigate to the window I want when their live-contents are shown as the thumbnail06:37
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyKfz/8a26960086.png06:38
KamilionTotally unhelpful.06:38
KamilionAbsolutely unreasonably helpful, I'd say, actually.06:39
KamilionHi, I could have the window title as well, but I'm just going to center this icon for you. 🖕06:40
Kamilion*unhelpful06:40
Kamilionand of course, the desktop switcher widget has also lost the ability to track windows visually06:41
Kamilionwhich would have at least been useful to shove into the window-picker in icon mode.06:42
lynorianKamilion, qpdfview is awesome for me espically as I can increase the pdf cache size and not have many windows open06:42
Kamilionhm, I tend to work with browser tabs a lot more than PDFs06:42
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyKoV/0fa97ea566.jpg  Which can get out of hand quickly, I've got 185 tabs open right now06:43
Kamilionand another 30,000 stashed away06:43
Kamilionhttp://puu.sh/wyKpS/fb110c6e40.jpg06:43
lynorianI actually do not like having that many tabs06:44
Kamilionyeah, that window is just about to get split in half06:44
Kamilionthe button two over from the bookmark star does that06:44
lynorianToo easy to have a distracting tab for me I can close the whole window06:45
KamilionI typically visit over a thousand sites a day06:46
Kamiliontoday has been fewer than normal because I had a relatively long phoronix binge-read earlier (it's a friday, after all)06:47
Kamilionoh, crap, gotta check lwn's thursday-dump06:47
Kamilionoooh, casync and mkosi...06:48
Kamilionhttps://lwn.net/Articles/726655/#Comments06:48
Kamilionhttps://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/726625/acdf8d0546cb57cf/06:49
Kamilionand since we discussed it earlier, async python: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/726600/dc0debc356028e06/06:49
Kamilionhttps://lwn.net/Articles/726005/  Comments here seem worth checking out as well; for once some level headed discussion <306:52
Kamilionand links to other cool stuff06:52
KamilionWha.... http://appfs.rkeene.org/web/index   This is the first I've seen of an OSX-ish app-system for linux...06:53
Kamilionohhh, LazyFS returns with a vengance06:54
Guest_My battery indicator shows 0% with full battery. Why and how can i fix this problem ?08:47
tsimonq2Guest_: Got a screenshot?08:54
Guest_Screenshot of what ?08:54
tsimonq2Guest_: Your battery indicator08:56
Guest_are you seriouse ? I say it shows 0% all the time.08:57
Guest_Do you need a screenshot of that ?08:57
tsimonq2Yes, I'm serious.08:58
tsimonq2It can help me identify the precise bug.08:58
Guest_A screenshot will not show anything.  A empty battery.08:59
Guest_I used the same lubuntu before without this problem. After i reinstall this happens.09:00
Guest_16.1009:00
tsimonq2Within the next month, 16.10 will no longer be supported.09:01
tsimonq2Try upgrading to 17.04.09:01
Guest_I know..09:01
Guest_and that is why i use 16.1009:01
tsimonq2Why?09:01
Guest_uppgrade is not a solution.. it shud work anyway.09:01
tsimonq2It should, I agree.09:02
tsimonq2Which is why I want to get a screenshot, that will help me fix it...09:02
Guest_In yesterday after many updates it told me the disk was full evene with 900MB free space.. If i upgrade the problem will come back with all the updates.09:02
tsimonq2Not updating isn't a solution either.09:04
Guest_To talk about other thing is not a soulution.09:05
Guest_How can i fix the battery indicator ?09:05
tsimonq2It's not a simple solution.09:05
tsimonq2I don't know the answer.09:05
Guest_Why it works before and not now ?09:06
tsimonq2I don't know.09:08
XguestWhy was i removed from the chat ?09:11
tsimonq2You were not removed?09:17
nomtati used the magnet download, but do not know what to do with the file. help?10:19
=== Ischwitz is now known as Ingvix
m4sk1nhi18:05
m4sk1non 2015 there was (simple) lubuntu-related task in Google Code In. will there be something lubuntu/lxqt-related task in 2017? or is #lubuntu-devel better place for this kind of questions?18:06
eco2geekIf anyone happens to be listening: I'm playing with your "experimental" LXQt edition18:59
eco2geekThe Lubuntu blog says, "The LXQt ISO will most likely break your system."19:00
wxleco2geek: might want to head over to #lubuntu-devel19:00
eco2geekOK will do.19:00
=== BrAsS_mOnKeY is now known as g2
DrachonI'm needing help I was adjusting my security settings in my profile to require my password at boot and my os loops back to the login after entering the correct password. I adjusted the config to be autologin after this by backdooring in with a live disk now it doesn't even get to the login21:07
wxlDrachon: make a new user. if they don't have the same problem, something got messed up.21:09
DrachonI can't access the system without accessing the file system from a different os21:10
wxlsure you can. open up a tty with ctrl-alt-f121:10
wxlyou'd just have to do it non-graphically21:11
Drachonit then requested my password and looped back to the graphical login now won't even get to the login21:11
Drachonit now stops at bootrmfs with a prompt and doesn't respond to any of the comands it lists in it's help list21:13
wxlsounds like you severely messed it up.21:13
wxli would advise a reinstall, but keep your home.21:13
Drachoni was afraid of that. thank you i was just hoping there was something else i could try first21:14
wxlyeah sorry. that's pretty drastic stuff21:15
wxlit could probably be unravelled but not easily without being in front of it21:15
Drachonya it sux. i tried adjusting the settings from the file system but it didn't work even put the old files back in and it shows system check failed no file errors21:18
Drachonthank you wxl for the help i'm off to get this straight21:21
wxlgood luck Drachon21:22
Drachonthanks I'll need it21:22
wxli replied all21:55
wxloops21:55
n-iCehi22:18
nistonceIf I'm interested in using the Nvidia driver blob, but don't want to risk its sending back telemetry, is there any sort of equivalent of https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/firejail (or various other container tools) one can use to prevent it [as partly kernel code] from accessing said network? Dropping routes to known IP space could help, but that seems high-maintenance.23:27
nistoncee.g., some kind of nftables setup which unless a packet was identified with a specific userspace process, dropped said packet.23:31
nistonceAh, https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Matching_packet_metainformation#Matching_packets_the_socket_UID23:35
n-iCe:D23:35

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