=== JanC_ is now known as JanC [03:55] robert_ancell: thanks for the snapd/polkit patch. I had found your old pull request, and reused some of the ideas and code in my own pull request [03:55] robert_ancell: Here's the result if you're interested: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3581 [03:55] jamesh, ah good, I wasn't sure if the old PR still existed [03:57] robert_ancell: I used godbus instead of libsystemd, so hopefully that makes things a little more palatable [03:59] jamesh, last time there were issues raised that godbus wasn't reliable enough. I never worked out what the issues were; my conclusion was the team had been burnt by it in the past and were wary. [03:59] I feel like I've been along this path before :) I hope you are more successful! [04:01] I like how you just did /v2/login. Now we have snapd-login-service in the wild this feels like a logical step that should make sense. [04:07] yep. And if we can get this through, it is a much smaller battle to say polkit auth should be treated like root access for "snap install" [04:09] but on its own, it hasn't removed the need for macaroons. [04:09] so hopefully the discussions won't go down that related rabbit hole [04:11] Small steps. [04:13] jamesh, Something I was concerned about is the Polkit failure case. In this case it will just fall through and use the existing behaviour. I think that's safe because a) polkit is assumed to be an essential service if it is installed and b) the fallback is safe [04:14] On an Ubuntu Core system I guess you risk seeing errors about Polkit not existing, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. [04:14] Right. I'm just logging the error and continuing, which is essentially failing closed. [04:15] if polkitd isn't available, you'll just need to be root to use that action [04:15] which is the status quo [04:15] yeah [04:16] The snap design seems to be big on highly predictable behaviour, so I hope they're OK with graceful degradation. [04:17] I figure it can't be compile time due to the way snapd is shipped, though it could be a config option of some sort if that was desirable. [04:17] I think they'd take the ability to share the same snapd binary between core and classic over stricter error handling [04:17] You'd think so :) [04:18] another possible improvement for this would be to add pkttyagent support to the snap client [04:18] that would give sudo-less access outside of a graphical session [04:18] I think that every time I use systemctl [06:09] good morning desktoppers [06:37] good morning [06:37] hi oSoMoN, didrocks [06:38] hey jamesh [06:38] how are you? [06:39] good. I got my snapd/polkit branch working, so I'm hoping we can keep pushing that forward. [06:40] It implements only enough to let you run "snap login" without sudo, which is a start. [06:42] yeah, reading that on the forum :) [06:42] let's see what answers we'll get [07:19] good morning desktopers [07:19] hey oSoMoN jamesh [07:19] Morning seb128 jamesh oSoMoN didrocks [07:20] hey flexiondotorg, how are you? [07:20] hey flexiondotorg, how are you? [07:20] Very well thanks. Had a long weekend away. Sunshine and boats :-) [07:21] ok, indicator-messages should now be off the iso with those changes [07:21] remaining is indicator-applications [07:21] onboard doesn't have a good upgrade story [07:21] (basically, no systray/indicator on G-S) [07:22] I can patch it easily so that the "auto-detect" shows up the systray [07:22] look for a "onboard" extension [07:22] and only show systray if no extension is installed [07:22] (standard upgrade) [07:22] that way, I can dowgrade the recommends on indicator-application to recommends [07:22] shouldn't be hard [07:22] BUT [07:22] there is update-notifier as well which deps on it [07:23] (I meant "downgrade indicator-application to suggests") [07:23] and on update-notifier, as it's C, it's harder to make a runtime dep detection… [07:23] it's not because they use libappindicator that they need a renderer for it [07:24] we should enable https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/615/appindicator-support/ [07:24] does it use the same dbusmenu stack? [07:25] to communicate [07:25] ? [07:25] I think that protocol is common to unity & kde [07:25] I don't think it's dbusmenu specific? [07:25] libappindicator pull dbusmenu to communicate over dbus (I thought we switched to the gtk/glib menu at some point, though?) [07:26] and dbusmenu is pulling part of the libunity stack [07:26] could be, but that's orthogonal to the renderer/indicator-application [07:26] or are you talking about getting ride of dbusmenu from the iso now? [07:26] my point was that we could have clients using libappindicator still [07:26] I'm talking about getting ride of most of the unity stack/dee and such dbusmenu from the iso [07:26] and the rendering in the shell done by that extension ^ [07:26] k [07:27] I though you were talking about indicator-application [07:27] sorry, as a source package [07:27] wasn't clear enough [07:28] well indicator-application is just the applet rendering appindicator icons right? [07:28] I mean it's a one binary source and that can go to universe easily [07:28] correct, but the source package is libindicator, which provides that libs, which has this long trail of deps [07:29] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application [07:29] I was talking about [07:29] let me look at the libs [07:29] oh that, yeah [07:29] sorry, read the results the wrong way, not enough coffee :p [07:29] np :-) [07:29] and this libindicator vs libappindicator [07:29] grrr, afer all those years :p [07:29] ahah [07:30] so yeah, talking about libappindicator [07:30] libappindicator depends on libindicator and libdbusmenu [07:30] yeah [07:31] it's another of those tradeoff discussion [07:31] libappindicator is used by a bunch of packages in main [07:31] so either we drop its use and regress a bit more the unity session [07:31] or we keep them building with it [07:32] which is low space on the iso but more unmaintained code we carry on the iso [07:32] yeah, how can we come to a conclusion on this? Would be great to have a discussion with involved parts [07:32] though the code is mostly stable and low maintainance [07:32] (and patches) [07:32] but still technical debt [07:32] I don't really care about the space vs the patch/diff maintainance on apps [07:33] step 1 is to list it on the wiki [07:33] one we think the wiki list is complete then we can have the discussion [07:34] with interested parties (including Mark?), on what we do from unity7 [07:34] yeah, I guess that, with the list of packages on the iso at least as example of regression vs perf [07:34] yep [07:34] seb128: maybe we'll be more productive doing a HO (like tomorrow), together and go to the list? [07:34] tomorrow sounds good, +1 [07:35] let's do that :) [07:36] cool [07:57] morning all [07:58] hey willcooke [07:58] hi didrocks! Is part 2 of your tutorial out soon? Want to reshare, but I think it would be good for them to have just a little more [07:58] in other news... I built a PPA! (thanks kenvandine for the help) [07:59] willcooke: I can publish it in a few minutes, let me do a last typo reread :p [08:00] didrocks, woot [08:00] willcooke, seems one debhelper regressed 7 hours ago. I just grabbed a proposed fix so in theory can test your branch proper now [08:00] duflu, afternoon! [08:00] willcooke, and happy Wednesday [08:01] duflu, I dont think we'll merge it yet, spoke to s_eb128 about it yesterday. I think speaking to upstream PAudio for a "real" fix is the right thing to do atm [08:01] yo [08:01] duflu, I'll talk about it some more in the meeting [08:01] morning Laney [08:02] willcooke, OK nevermind. BTW I noticed a new feature highlighted in bold here. Seems to be very timely - http://www.android-x86.org/releases/releasenote-7-1-rc1 [08:02] duflu, but if you're interested: https://launchpad.net/~willcooke/+archive/ubuntu/gdm-nobluetoothaudio [08:02] willcooke, ta but I was trying to do the proper thing and test the branch directly [08:03] duflu, ah right. Thx [08:03] hey willcooke Laney, how is u.k today? [08:03] rainy [08:03] which is great [08:03] :) [08:03] wonder if it's raining as much for you that it is here [08:03] lol [08:03] :p [08:04] My grass might turn green again [08:04] ooooooh! Software update notifications on the lock screen, I like that [08:05] Welcome to the world of upstream shell collaboration :) [08:06] \o/ [08:07] hey seb128 [08:08] not raining here, we had enough yesterday for a week ... [08:08] how are you? [08:09] willcooke: just git push, should be up in few seconds [08:09] didrocks, merci [08:09] didrocks, can I suggest a link from pt 1 to pt 2 and vice versa? [08:10] ah, I have done pt2 to pt1 [08:10] I can add from pt1 to pt2, one sec [08:12] Umm, I no longer have a mouse on the login screen (but Gnome Shell does). Is that a feature? [08:13] willcooke: link pushed [08:13] thx didrocks [08:13] yw [08:13] duflu, hum. Bluetooth mouse? [08:13] No, USB. It's visibly powered but no cursor in gdm [08:14] OTOH I am testing a custom gdm [08:14] duflu, testing here [08:15] But Bluetooth audio is fixed :) [08:15] Forget it, unless the problem occurs in official builds [08:21] duflu, yeah, mouse works here. [08:22] Cosmic rays [08:22] Moving on... [08:22] :) [08:22] * willcooke goes to try the auto connect fixes [08:22] "switch-on-connect" [08:27] duflu, bah, no good. Could be this particular speaker though [08:28] BT and USB hotplugging works great for me now. The USB part drove me crazy for years and I guess BT is a big deal for others [08:28] Strangely also fixed a separate USB DAC problem... somehow [08:30] hehe [08:32] so, toggling the speaker on and off in the control panel seems to work well, just powering off the speaker causes a bit of a lock up and eventually switches back to the internal speaker (probably fair enough, since there isn't a handshake, it's just OFFFFFF) [08:33] powering the speaker back on doesnt re-connect automatically [08:33] I'll test with another speaker, since this one is super-cheapo [08:33] Setting up gdm3 (3.24.2-1ubuntu5) ... [08:33] dpkg-query: package 'ubuntu-session' is not installed and no information is available [08:33] willcooke, Yeah bouncing bluetooth doesn't seem to be robust after a few attempts. But it's seemingly getting better. I think this is as good as it's ever been [08:33] /o\ [08:34] duflu, it's a clear improvement in my book [08:34] found another missing icon [08:36] duflu, new speaker - a Sony one - works perfectly!!! [08:36] I can also say "It's a Sony" [08:37] willcooke: by what time you need the demo ready? End of day or before? [08:37] andyrock, EOD is fine for me [08:37] and good morning [08:37] hi! [08:37] kk thanks [08:37] :) [08:38] duflu, lulz.. this cheapo one... "protable": http://imgur.com/a/9WUE0 [08:44] didrocks, soo.. rebuilding those blender files for the help movies, I left it runinng for 3 days and it never finished. Can't tell if it's broken, or if it just takes a long time to run. Do we upload the videos as binaries. or are they built in LP? [08:47] willcooke: right now, they are all pre-built [08:47] distributed with the source [08:47] didrocks, oki, that's probably good. Do you have a machine in the cloud somewhere that I could set to work on them? [08:47] I'm not sure I can stand the fan noise any more :D [08:48] willcooke: I don't, maybe you can try canonistack? [08:48] didrocks, nod [08:51] willcooke: jibel: FYI, the gdm3 simple patch is uploaded to favor X11 sessions over wayland when no default is set [08:51] (still in proposed) [08:51] didrocks, nice one, thanks! You got to the bottom of it then? Just gdm prefers Wayland? [08:52] willcooke: yep, when there has been no session selected, which still makes me wondering for "your" case [08:52] as you did select "ubuntu" on purpose and not "ubuntu on wayland" [08:55] didrocks, ah right. I'll do another fresh install (maybe tomorrow) and try again [09:01] didrocks, okay, I'll try it. I'll install the package at the end of a fresh installation and before first login [09:02] jibel: this is gdm3 3.24.2-1ubuntu6 [09:18] didrocks, hi, added thunderbird-gnome-support to Breaks of ubuntu-session? [09:22] ricotz: urgh, was probably not enough coffee, wanted recommends [09:22] * didrocks checks [09:24] ricotz: correct, more coffee was needed. Thanks for spotting it! uploaded. [09:25] didrocks, it was hard to miss here due suggested package removals [09:26] ricotz: yeah, I guess ;) [09:26] (I've already removed it here to test in a G-S session) [09:39] willcooke, oops. Your fix works permanently as the new file doesn't uninstall [09:39] duflu, heh, yay [09:39] duflu, I've made a mess of that branch now by hacking the changelog, so if we decide to use it I'll make a nice clean one. [09:40] willcooke, it's fine. bzr doesn't make history very discoverable after a merge [09:41] so should I consider putting something in the postrm file as well? [09:42] willcooke, probably? Although I thought debs had better config file management...? [09:42] "bzr log -n0" will show all your sins [09:43] Yes, but my point was nobody looks there too much [09:43] (assuming you consider the process of software development to be a sin) [09:44] sinners use spaces :) [09:45] willcooke: The gdm user's home directory is already removed in the postrm [09:45] (when purging) [09:45] Laney, the file lives in /var/lib/gdm3/.config/pulse [09:45] (or something like that) [09:46] I know, that's the home directory [09:46] /var/lib/gdm3 is gdm user's home [09:46] oh [09:46] as Laney pointed :) [09:47] the moral of this story is that I will ask someone who knows what they are doing to help me if we decide to actually go with this workaround [09:47] willcooke, I'm looking at the upstream docs for how to do it. Gimme a sec [09:48] Laney, btw - we just had our Bluetooth meeting. Decision is that seb128 will speak to upstream and see if we can get a proper fix in place. If that doesn't go anywere we can reconsider the proposed work-around and do it properly [09:49] k, that sounds right to me [09:49] OK, that didn't work. But anyway willcooke there is https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PerfectSetup/ [09:50] blimey, I remember reading that page yeeeears ago [09:51] is ESD still a thing? [09:51] oh, no, it says about replacing esd with pulse [09:52] Hmm, yes. If you kill and restart the gdm pulseaudio then the user's own one gets priority and works [09:52] Or maybe that's a race [09:53] I think thats not going to work perfectly. a11y would be unavailble at the lock screen then [09:53] or, if you killed the users pa on lock, then music would stop playing when you locked the machine [09:56] willcooke, did you say you saw the mention of the problem on Arch wiki? [09:56] duflu, yeah. This debian wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser/a2dp [09:56] then links to this arch wiki: [09:57] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:Bluetooth_headset#GDMs_pulseaudio_instance_captures_bluetooth_headset [09:59] I wonder if there is an a11y problem at all. Before today Pulse would default to the PC speaker or whatever is plugged in to that. I doubt a11y users could have been using BT in GDM if they wanted to [10:00] Although I forgot about static priorities and don't remember testing booting with the device on previously [10:00] AIUI, the Pulse settings are system wide, so.. if you logged in, paired the headset/speaker, logged out again - then it /might/ try and use it at greeter - so maybe it's possible? [10:01] quite a lot of guess work there ^ :) [10:01] willcooke, no I don't think we use that mode and it's mildly not recommended https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/SystemWide/ [10:02] That should solve it tho [10:04] Anyway, I feel terrible. Time to try this new medication... [10:13] didrocks, better check gnome-session again, the changelog mentions unity-session and you touched ubuntu-session [10:15] * didrocks *sighs*, ok no more upload apart from that fix today :/ [10:15] willcooke: I'm still not sure whether we'll be able to convince Gustavo to go fully macaroon-less for local snapd auth, but I've got a working first stab at polkit integreation for snapd: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3581 [10:16] didrocks, having things reviewed helps ;) [10:16] ... before pushing it [10:16] ricotz: yeah, especially when doing too many things at the same time :p [10:16] this essentially just lets snapd do what we use snapd-login-service for [10:16] well, at least it's a minor typo, not breaking people compared to other issues ;) [10:17] (gnome-session has too many binary packages, easy to scroll up and be in a different one) [10:20] * didrocks did a debdiff + bzr diff this time [10:31] jamesh, sorry was otp [10:31] reading [10:32] jamesh, ah nice one! [10:45] What's the wayland tag for bugs again? Is it just "wayland"? I had a feeling there might have been a different one [10:45] "wayland" [10:45] thx seb128 [10:45] yw [10:49] jamesh: hope you manage to get buy in for that work [10:49] & hi! [10:51] Laney: I do too. It sounds like there is a desire to tighten up the API security a bit, so hopefully they'll see this as part of it. [11:05] * Laney nods [11:51] willcooke, it's wayland but apport adds the tag wayland-session if wayland is running [11:53] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wayland-session [12:04] seb128, what do you think about using wayland-session instead of wayland for the official tag [12:04] ? [12:04] and merge both lists [12:05] either way is fine to me, just pick whatever you think is easier [12:05] but maybe check with jbicha as well [12:08] I'd keep wayland-session, easier to change the official tag than updating and releasing apport [12:08] jbicha, what do you think? ^ [12:12] I think it's good to have 2 different tags [12:13] one tag is because the user happens to be running wayland but doesn't mean the problem is specific to wayland [12:15] so someone has to review the bugs tagged wayland-session and add the wayland tag if the problem is specific to wayland [12:16] yes [12:17] jbicha, why not use 1 tag for wayland eg wayland-session and remove the ayland-session tag if it is not specific to wayland? [12:17] I don't see any benefit in having 2 lists for wayland [12:18] it's like the 'amd64' tag; it's useful to know what architecture someone is running but it's rare for the bug to be because they're using amd64 [12:18] very few bugs are because of Wayland but we still want to know whether the user is running Wayland [12:20] it's only because Wayland is not the default yet that the number of wayland-session bugs is so small, and maybe someone triaged some of those to remove the tag too (but that's needless busywork) [12:23] jibel, one list doesn't let you make the difference between triaged bugs which are confirmed to be wayland specific (=bugs to look at for us) and the stack of incoming reports from users on the wayland session (need triaging) [12:24] seb128, that's fine as long as someone triage them. Several bugs tagged wayland-session seem wayland specific and are not tagged wayland. These bugs are useful to help with the decision to go or not go with wayland [12:28] didrocks, just to confirm, with latest gdm3, autologin, the session is running ubuntu-x11 [12:30] \o/ [12:35] jibel, fair point, we should triage them regularly [12:49] Can anyone work out where the heck this icon is coming from? http://imgur.com/a/r5CLa [12:49] seb128: is it worth proposing your evolution change upstream? and remember to do it for e-d-s too :) [12:49] I'm pretty sure it's called "audio-headset" and I've looked at all the ones on disk, and none of them match [12:52] willcooke: it's probably from adwaita-icon-theme [12:53] I opened up gtk3-icon-browser and looked for it, then I ran apt-file search audio-headset [12:54] willcooke, looks like it's from adwaita [12:54] willcooke, /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/24x24/devices/audio-headset.png [12:55] thanks! [12:56] so, related to that, you can see on that screenshot the missing icon - IMO a direct copy / symlink to that headset one is good enough. So do I need to try and fix that in Adwaita, or can we bodge it at an Ubuntu level? [12:57] Could I add that to, say, Humanity [12:58] willcooke: please check if installing adwaita-icon-theme-full makes a difference === didrocks1 is now known as didrocks [13:00] jbicha, will do, and thanks for the point to the icon browser, very useful indeed [13:01] jbicha, I guess I can try to upstream them, technically what upŝtream does is a bit better but in practice it shouldn't make a difference, I'm just unsure "we have tools parsing that file which are not smart enough to understand variables" is a good justification [13:19] didrocks: kenvandine: I made a change to the gdm3.config - want to review it? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu/revision/421 [13:20] * Laney goes to lunch [13:21] Laney, we had wanted to do the check based on ubuntu-session being installed, not for all users of gdm3 [13:21] based on our original discussion [13:22] but i guess if ubuntu-session isn't installed, users won't have their session set to ubuntu [13:24] jbicha, full icon theme doesn't help, and I dont see it in icon browser [13:24] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696402 [13:24] Gnome bug 696402 in general "Missing Headphones icon in sound settings" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [13:24] makes mention of the headset one, and says its in gnome-icon-theme (comment #7) [13:25] grr,ignore that. I'm looking for handsfree [13:25] which is says is to come [13:28] Laney: +1 on the change. It covers all cases we discussed together and I like it better than previous implementation. My only nitpick is that you revert if people reselected "lightdm" since last week as you compare with your own version, but I guess this is fine :) For backport, maybe compare with 3.24.2-1ubuntu7~ rather? (if people backported it to xenial), minor nitpick :p [13:33] willcooke, what's the issue with that headset icon? doesn't represent the device well? [13:33] willcooke, also you are investigating the missing icon for handsfree? [13:33] rather the handsfree icon is missing. I think it could just be a copy of the handsfree one. I can't find a "real" one anywhere. [13:33] *headset [13:33] handsfree could be a copy of headset [13:34] jibel: yo, got time for a hangout this afternoon about desktop testing? [13:34] (seems two words begining with the same letter is more than my brain can handle) [13:35] willcooke, that's sort of what was suggested in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1130137 [13:35] Ubuntu bug 1130137 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Better sound settings icons" [Low,Confirmed] [13:35] wfm [13:36] popey, sure, when? [13:36] popey, just add something to my calendar [13:36] seb128, so would that "fix" be in Ubuntu? [13:36] willcooke, ideally upstream but we could add the symlink to our package meanwhile [13:38] seb128, ack, thx [13:38] jibel: kk [13:54] kenvandine: yeah, but I don't think that can work properly if the check isn't in ubuntu-session itself [13:56] didrocks: yeh, but I was worried about previous versions not working properly [13:56] not sure about the ~, what's the idea there? [13:56] Laney: like for a lot of upgrade story, if someone backport the same version to a ppa, like ~ppa1, we don't want to remigrate after this [13:57] Laney, ok, +1 from me then [13:57] but again, that's in the case people backport the stack (to xenial), not sure if you care, I don't that much [14:01] nod, I think that makes sense [14:30] how can I disable the snap plugin of gnome-software? [14:30] delete it [14:31] :) ok [14:33] jibel: if you're using Artful, you can look up GNOME Software in GNOME Software and turn off Snappy support [14:33] or just uninstall gnome-software-plugin-snap [14:34] ... [14:34] Laney: btw, the gnome software icon isn't the ubuntu one (I didn't check why yet), did you notice? [14:35] IIRC, there was an onlyshowin=ubuntu [14:36] it shows up as Ubuntu Software in 'Ubuntu' but not in 'Ubuntu on Wayland' [14:37] the icon isn't Ubuntu Software though [14:37] which was the point made in the trello card [14:37] actually I see both [14:37] oh, I don't [14:38] only one entry "ubuntu-software" [14:38] jbicha, ah thanks. Sounds better. [14:38] but with upstream icon [14:38] k, well it'll only work in a session called ubuntu [14:38] as told: [14:38] $ echo $DESKTOP_SESSION [14:38] ubuntu [14:38] k [14:38] the snap plugin seems to have a huge negative impact on performance of gnome-software [14:39] if you want to debug it that would be welcome [14:39] yep, will do :) [14:51] jibel, on what actions? startup? search? [14:52] willcooke: how do you import bug reports to trello automatically? [14:52] I don't see a tag [14:52] didrocks, add "desktop-trello-import" tag and then tell me the project name [14:52] package name [14:53] whatever it's called [14:53] the thing [14:53] :) [14:54] willcooke: the things are: gdm3 gsettings-desktop-schemas gnome-software [14:54] :) [14:54] didrocks, same bug for all of them? [14:54] looks like gnome-software was the right one [14:55] https://trello.com/c/nUBUEkyG/188-bug1703849-gnome-software-doesnt-show-ubuntu-icon-in-the-ubuntu-session [14:55] willcooke: no, it's 3 different bugs I wanted to attach [14:55] didrocks, that will appear as 3 different cards [14:55] is that ok? [14:55] willcooke: as I expect, they are 3 different things :) [14:55] willcooke: yes [14:55] kk [14:56] thx! [14:56] seb128, search for sure, maybe startup but I don't have any data and startup is already really slow just with debs because it refreshes the package cache [14:56] didrocks, https://trello.com/c/fX8lP0VF/189-bug1703326-lock-screen-wallpaper-is-a-plain-blue-screen [14:57] willcooke: doesn't do assignement matching, I'm soooooooooooooooooooo disappointed :) [14:57] didrocks, hm, the gdm3 one isnt being found, got a bug number?> [14:57] didrocks, its on my todo list [14:57] :) [14:57] willcooke: it's fix released, maybe you don't import them? (it was just for tracking) [14:57] ah [14:57] oki, [14:57] --force to the rescue [14:57] ahah :) [14:58] yay! [14:58] https://trello.com/c/1wEWXt9p/190-bug1703601-use-ubuntu-x11-as-default-session [14:58] merci beaucoup ! [14:58] bien sur [17:15] * willcooke found the kids easters eggs in the cupboard. Now they are mine. [17:15] nom [17:20] is it your fault they didn't find them just because they were hidden on the top shelf way in the back? they had their chance [17:22] I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about [17:22] :D [17:23] but you're right, out of sight out of mind. [17:23] fossfreedom: Budgie doesn't actually need the 'mutter' binary package, does it? (it doesn't have that dependency on Debian) [17:29] jbicha - hmm - no it shouldn't need it [17:29] done a test on the live ISO - removed mutter logged out and logged back in successfully [17:30] fossfreedom: does today's live iso boot to Budgie or to GNOME Shell? [17:30] gnome-shell is still installed. [17:31] I note - there is a mistake in our seeds [17:32] we have mutter listed in the desktop seed [17:32] see my comment on LP: #1703685 [17:32]