=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
=== maclin1 is now known as maclin
[06:21] <didrocks> good morning
[06:35] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[06:35] <didrocks> hey duflu
[06:37] <seb128> good morning desktopers, and happy friday
[06:37] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
[06:37] <seb128> re didrocks
[06:37] <duflu> Happy Friday seb128 (he says while balancing a heat pack on his sore head)
[06:37] <duflu> How are you?
[06:38] <didrocks> re seb128
[06:39] <seb128> I'm good, it's friday, weather is nice (sunny but not too hot) and I'm playing tennis tonight!
[06:51] <seb128> duflu, bug #1705369 ... can we reliably tell in a video card/gpu is connected to something?
[06:51] <ubot5> bug 1705369 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 17.10 boots to black screen when using Nvidia drivers (on a desktop with an Intel GPU)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705369
[06:51] <willcooke> morning all
[06:51] <seb128> hey willcooke! how are you?
[06:51] <duflu> seb128, yes we did it in Mir, and any display server has to do it. Just takes effort
[06:51] <duflu> Hi willcooke
[06:52] <seb128> duflu, ok, I was unsure if the system always had enough informations from the card/driver to tell e.g if there is a monitor connect to the vga output
[06:53] <didrocks> we did it as well in Nux
[06:53] <didrocks> maybe just blacklist unconditionnally nvidia drivers?
[06:53] <seb128> I mean the display server does what it can with the info it has
[06:53] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[06:54] <seb128> didrocks, the dual gpu case is a bit tricky
[06:54] <didrocks> yeah, I think
[06:54] <willcooke> didrocks, I added MATE to that list
[06:54] <didrocks> like "which one took over"
[06:54] <willcooke> that list = trello card for themes
[06:54] <didrocks> willcooke: you didn't lie, clicked on the tab, so it added :p
[06:54] <didrocks> willcooke: good one, if you come on with any other…
[06:55] <didrocks> s/so it/was/
[06:55] <seb128> who knew that themes would be a so trendy topic in 2017
[06:55] <didrocks> it's the nice thing!
[06:55] <willcooke> didrocks, I'll have a think :)  Also, I'm just rebuilding that snap having moved it to the desktop launcher
[06:55] <didrocks> now, about that input system which needs theming… :)
[06:55] <didrocks> willcooke: ah, you are handling the cleanup of that snap?
[06:56] <seb128> :-p
[06:56] <didrocks> so, moving to the cloud parts
[06:56] <duflu> seb128, it's "easy". Just standard KMS logic for detecting if there is a monitor connected
[06:56] <willcooke> didrocks, welllllllllllll.  Lemme see if I can make it work first - I might have questions
[06:56] <didrocks> sure :)
[06:56] <didrocks> willcooke: once we'll add all the themes, think about running "snapcraft update" or snapcraft will never pick the new definition
[06:56] <willcooke> didrocks, ack
[06:56] <didrocks> (but if we changed the remote code, it will pick it, which has interesting side-effects)
[06:56] <willcooke> and thanks for looking at that didrocks, seb128
[06:56] <didrocks> snapcraft should really just tell you to refresh?
[06:57] <didrocks> …*
[06:57] <didrocks> yw!
[06:57] <seb128> np!
[06:57] <seb128> didrocks, how does it tell that code has changed?
[06:57] <didrocks> seb128: it doesn't, but source: https://github.com/…
[06:58] <didrocks> so, it always pull
[06:58] <didrocks> however, the part definition is cached
[06:58] <didrocks> I had the issue once when I changed the remote code (the make parameters to be passed) and thus, the parts definition
[06:58] <didrocks> got a lot of bug reports because people were rebuilding their snap without refreshing the remote part
[06:59] <didrocks> and so, failure to build
[06:59] <seb128> right
[06:59] <seb128> it's a bit tricky
[06:59] <didrocks> yep
[06:59] <didrocks> it should cache everything, included pointed resources
[06:59] <didrocks> or nothing
[06:59] <didrocks> not half of the thing
[06:59] <seb128> hitting the internet at every build to check if the parts are outdated would be suboptimal as well
[07:00] <didrocks> yeah, that's why caching more could be an answer
[07:00] <didrocks> then, it can hit the Internet, in the background
[07:00] <didrocks> so that next command tells you "you have new stuff to refresh"
[07:00] <didrocks> that would be an improvement already IMHO
[07:00] <willcooke> log a bug, I'm sure Sergio will help
[07:01] <didrocks> willcooke: it's logged, discussed
[07:01] <didrocks> on the backlog list
[07:01] <willcooke> oh cool
[07:01] <didrocks> we even discussed it last october again IIRC
[07:01] <willcooke> I'll go speak to Sergio and see if he'll do us a solid ;)
[07:02] <didrocks> willcooke: that's why, even if we add those new themes, people not using the platform snap and rebuilding a snap locally (we won't have that issue on b.snapcraft.io) may still miss the themes in
[07:02] <didrocks> I prefer to be explicit about gotchas we can encounter :)
[07:14] <willcooke> Can someone in an Xorg gnome-shell recreate this?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1705458
[07:14] <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1705458 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Mouse clicks pass through to window underneath" [Undecided,New]
[07:14] <willcooke> It feels like one of those "only me" bugs again
[07:16] <didrocks> willcooke: can't reproduce, indeed
[07:16] <willcooke> :)
[07:17] <didrocks> however, I have some other interesting bug
[07:17] <didrocks> like, if I reduce the window
[07:17] <didrocks> the popup goes a little bit over
[07:17] <didrocks> on the bottom
[07:17] <didrocks> but what's after is cut
[07:18] <didrocks> I guess it's because the popupover isn't its own X window
[07:23] <willcooke> bah, today it's gone.  Even though I could re-create it after reboots yesterday
[07:25] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - polite reminder, could you update the newsletter GDoc today please?  I can post to Wordpress if needed, but Laney also has an account I think
[07:30] <willcooke> didrocks, confirmed I think: http://imgur.com/a/4FgtF
[07:30] <andyrock> good morning
[07:31] <jibel> talking about weird bugs, bug 1705459 is annoying. Has anyone seen it with another app?
[07:31] <ubot5> bug 1705459 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Cannot switch to another workspace when an sqlitebrowser window is open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705459
[07:31] <willcooke> hey andyrock
[07:31] <didrocks> willcooke: yeah
[07:31] <didrocks> willcooke: I think it's the X window size at max (+ transparent borders)
[07:32] <didrocks> jibel: never (yet)
[07:43] <willcooke> didrocks, logged: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1705647
[07:43] <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1705647 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "File Open popover only shows half the popover" [Undecided,New]
[07:45] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[07:46] <seb128> hey andyrock jibel flexiondotorg
[07:48] <didrocks> (confirmed)
[07:56] <jibel> morning seb128
[08:01] <Laney> beeeeeeeeee gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodddddd
[08:02] <didrocks> heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Laneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[08:02] <seb128> goooooood moooorrrning Laney
[08:05] <Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqtxl4Qc_7A
[08:08] <seb128> heh
[08:08] <seb128> Laney, how are you today?
[08:14] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:14] <Laney> good thanks, happy it's friday!
[08:14] <Laney> you?
[08:15] <seb128> same, friday and tennis day!
[08:16] <Laney> seb128 Federer
[08:18] <seb128> haha
[08:27] <Trevinho> morning guys
[08:28] <Trevinho> I need your publishing powers for https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2874
[08:29] <seb128> hey Trevinho
[08:29] <Trevinho> hey seb128 how are you?
[08:29] <seb128> the guy who only says hello to us when he needs something :-)
[08:29] <seb128> Trevinho, I'm good! you?
[08:30] <Trevinho> Good... Working in a seaside pine forest today :)
[08:30] <seb128> nice
[08:30] <seb128> Trevinho, what's that .upgrade doing?
[08:32] <Trevinho> seb128: it's updating the default settings for an user that has already installed unity
[08:33] <Trevinho> so basically if the profile has already been created the settings are updated
[08:33] <Trevinho> basically a migration script
[08:33] <Trevinho> compiz-style
[08:33] <seb128> k
[08:34] <seb128> Trevinho, published
[08:34] <Trevinho> ta
[08:34] <seb128> yw
[08:51] <seb128> could somebody try this to me on artful
[08:52] <seb128> on the gdm screen (either before log in, or lock screen and click "use different user")
[08:52] <seb128> type a wrong password and when the error is displayed hit "esc" directly on your keyboard while it's still on screen
[08:53] <seb128> do you end up with a password entry on top of the user description as well?
[08:54] <andyrock> seb128: checking
[08:55] <andyrock> seb128: yep
[08:56] <seb128> andyrock, thanks
[08:58] <seb128> jamesh, nice snapcraft post about desktop needs!
[08:58] <jamesh> seb128: thanks.  Is there anything you'd like me to add?
[08:59] <jamesh> I tried to start each task with what we need rather than railroad it to a particular solution.
[09:01] <seb128> jamesh, I think you covered the important topics, I'm looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu//+bugs?field.tag=snap-desktop-issue but I'm not sure other things are worth mentioning
[09:02] <seb128> jamesh, we eventually need to resolve bug #1583250 at some point, not sure if that's worth putting on the list though
[09:02] <ubot5> bug 1583250 in Snapcraft "upstream use of build-time defined PREFIX or DATADIR incompatible with snaps relocation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583250
[09:02] <didrocks> jamesh: yeah, that one needs to be listed in ^
[09:02] <seb128> jamesh, we currently build our GNOME snaps with an hacked prefix=/snap/$name/current/usr and use organize
[09:03] <seb128> to move things back to the right location
[09:03] <didrocks> I heard that snap location are different on other distros
[09:03] <didrocks> so the same snap would fail
[09:03] <seb128> but that makes things depends on /snap to be the location
[09:03] <didrocks> better to have it said before :)
[09:03] <seb128> which seems is not true on other distros
[09:05] <jamesh> seb128, didrocks: I'll add that.
[09:06] <didrocks> thx! :)
[09:07] <seb128> jamesh, thanks
[09:15] <jamesh> didrocks: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/ubuntu-desktop-team-priorities/1397 <- does that look okay?
[09:16] <didrocks> jamesh: on the themes, you can maybe reference our google doc?
[09:16] <jamesh> sure.
[09:16] <didrocks> thx
[09:17] <seb128> jamesh, on the relocation the snappy team position is that "/snap" is an implementation detail and could change and that we shouldn't rely on it
[09:17] <seb128> and it's change on e.g fedora I think
[09:17] <seb128> because it's against the fhs and they put it under /run or something
[09:19] <didrocks> but the "prefix" hack which is required with many upstream projects were the only recommendation they can give at the time
[09:19] <jamesh> seb128: maybe we suggest people get their app working with strict confinement then? :)
[09:19] <jamesh> who cares where the snap appears on the host file system if it is at /snap inside the sandbox?
[09:20] <jamesh> (or is it also under /run in the sandbox on Fedora?)
[09:20] <seb128> jamesh, you mean?
[09:20] <didrocks> jamesh: it's not in /snap, it's in /snap/<snap_name>/current/
[09:20] <didrocks> on ubuntu
[09:20] <seb128> didrocks, which is under /snap :p
[09:20] <didrocks> and somewhere else on other distros
[09:20] <seb128> jamesh, I don't think the sandbox does magic to remap it as /snap
[09:20] <didrocks> correct, but still depends on snap_name and path
[09:21] <jamesh> didrocks, seb128 was saying that snapd on fedora doesn't put snaps under /snap/<package>/current.  I was wondering whether that was only on the host file system, or also in the sandbox
[09:21] <jamesh> didrocks: since a strict confined snap won't see the host file system anyway
[09:21] <didrocks> jamesh: ah, I guess we only talk about the sanbdox
[09:21] <didrocks> jamesh: well, snap isn't like that
[09:21] <didrocks> if you snap run --shell
[09:21] <didrocks> you will see /snap/*
[09:21] <didrocks> you just can't access to other directories
[09:22] <didrocks> apart from /snap/<your_snap_name>/<your_version>
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks, well, the question is to know if fedora patches snappy to not create a /snappy on the fs but use /run/snappy what is the dir in the sandboxes env?
[09:23] <seb128> is that /run/snappy as well
[09:23] <seb128> or is the sandbox relocating to /snap?
[09:23] <didrocks> only zygmunt can answer to that I guess
[09:23] <seb128> right
[09:24] <seb128> because if the sandbox relocates than the prefix to /snap works
[09:24] <didrocks> for anything running apparmor, what you see outside is what yo uhave inside
[09:24] <didrocks> due to how the tech work
[09:24] <didrocks> (paths should be the same, apparmor is outside the sandbox and path-based)
[09:24] <didrocks> I don't know if they have clever tricks for fedora
[09:25] <seb128> I guess not
=== carlolo is now known as clobrano
[09:33] <didrocks> willcooke: mind looking at https://trello.com/c/9cYd1a02/201-add-more-themes-in-desktop-part-and-gnome-platform last comment and giving a ack/nack?
[09:36] <willcooke> didrocks, wow.  I thought it would be bigger, but not that much bigger.
[09:37] <immu> currently its using my laptop's internal mic
[09:37] <willcooke> So, I suggest we keep a base version as we have, and an "expanded" one which you've just built?
[09:37] <immu> oops
[09:38] <didrocks> willcooke: hum
[09:38] <didrocks> willcooke: then, people will complain "my snap does work, no this one doesn't"
[09:38] <immu> hey willcooke :)
[09:38] <didrocks> and we will keep getting into those discussions
[09:39] <didrocks> so it's either we add them, or none
[09:39] <didrocks> IMHO
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: thoughts? ^
[09:39] <willcooke> didrocks, thats a good point, but "all" seems too big to me
[09:39] <didrocks> willcooke: we took the popular ones, not all
[09:39] <didrocks> mate alone is a +35M
[09:39] <seb128> willcooke, didrocks, it's a "can't win" situation
[09:40] <didrocks> +1
[09:40] <seb128> willcooke, having 2 versions put us back where we are today, you can bundle thems but snap author don't do it
[09:40] <didrocks> and so, those tweets will keep coming
[09:40] <seb128> the equivalent post change is going to be "they picked the version with less depends to avoid the cost"
[09:40] <seb128> and we still are in the same situation
[09:40] <didrocks> exactly
[09:41] <didrocks> this is the reason why we argued for theme snaps with seb128 to be the proper solution
[09:41] <didrocks> which requires what is on our gdoc to be implemented
[09:43] <didrocks> this is the additional list we took: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25138289/
[09:43] <didrocks> you can see there isn't even elementary theme
[09:44] <didrocks> (so it's +9 themes compared to what we have today)
[09:50] <willcooke> kk
[09:51] <willcooke> so I feel like that extra size is probably too much, wdyt?
[09:51]  * didrocks feels it too, also increased build time
[09:51] <seb128> willcooke, size is a bit much but I would rather be concerned by the triple build time
[09:52] <willcooke> ack
[09:52] <didrocks> platform snap would be ok IMHO as it's only in one spot, BUT I feel the inconsistency between "bundling everything" experience and using the platform will give strange messages
[09:52] <seb128> we could find a way to improve the build time issue
[09:52] <seb128> but not the size one
[09:52] <didrocks> (at extra maintenance cost)
[09:53] <willcooke> So how about just: Mate, arc, numix?
[09:53] <seb128> the first one is 35M by itself
[09:53] <didrocks> until we get to the next request?
[09:54] <willcooke> humm, maybe not worth it then
[09:54] <didrocks> which was already what happened when shipping ambiance/radiance + adwaita dark & white
[09:54] <alexarnaud> Hello all :) !
[09:54] <seb128> hey alexarnaud
[09:54] <didrocks> morning alexarnaud
[09:54] <alexarnaud> seb128, didrocks: how are you?
[09:54] <didrocks> alexarnaud: good, thanks, yourself?
[09:54] <seb128> good, you?
[09:54] <alexarnaud> good :)
[09:58] <didrocks> willcooke: so, we just archive that card for now? I can push to a branch if needed.
[09:58] <alexarnaud> I've a little question. Hui Wang tells on the pulseaudio-discuss ML that Ubuntu has a GUI to handle jack selection when the jack plug works for input and output. What is the name of the GUI? Where can I find it ?
[09:58] <alexarnaud> https://www.mail-archive.com/pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org/msg17876.html
[09:58] <willcooke> didrocks, oki thanks for looking in to it - useful stats
[10:01] <immu> alexarnaud, i also have realtek sound and a dell alienware14 laptop
[10:03] <immu> upon plugging in the headphone jack no sound output is present
[10:03] <immu> but upon plugging in the headset i get full bass filed soundoutput
[10:04] <alexarnaud> immu: do you see the pop-up? Do you know its name?
[10:04] <immu> nope i don't see other then a popup sound bar type notification
[10:05] <immu> none i just tried
[10:05] <immu> in windows i get asked what have i plugged in
[10:07] <alexarnaud> immu: As I understand you don't have the wanted behavior.
[10:07] <alexarnaud> https://www.mail-archive.com/pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org/msg17902.html
[10:07] <alexarnaud> What is the process to discuss technical stuff with Hui Wang ?
[10:08] <seb128> alexarnaud, email him?
[10:08] <seb128> or report a bug on launchpad
[10:09] <immu> i had filed a bug but after something the discussion dried up
[10:09] <alexarnaud> immu: are you on the pulseaudio-discess ML?
[10:09] <immu> Realtek ALC3661
[10:09] <alexarnaud> seb128: thanks, good idea.
[10:09] <immu> alexarnaud, Realtek ALC3661
[10:10] <immu> i had filed a bug on launchpad and bugzillaaa
[10:11] <seb128> alexarnaud, the corresponding code is https://code.launchpad.net/~diwic/unity-settings-daemon/what-did-you-plug-in/+merge/206915
[10:11] <alexarnaud> seb128: thanks :) !
[10:12] <seb128> alexarnaud, GNOME has a similar feature but different implementation so things are worth re-testing on artful
[10:12] <seb128> alexarnaud, yw
[10:13] <seb128> alexarnaud, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-settings-daemon-team/unity-settings-daemon/trunk/files/head:/plugins/media-keys/what-did-you-plug-in/
[10:14] <alexarnaud> thanks again :).
[10:17] <davidcalle> didrocks: no more GDocs tutorials, everything has been converted to MD, just merged the last one \o/
[10:18] <didrocks> davidcalle: excellent! My md parser didn't need any change thus?
[10:18] <didrocks> or missing features ?
[10:18] <didrocks> compared to the gdoc one
[10:20] <davidcalle> didrocks: I think we have a (reasonably small) list of bugs yet to file (mostly line breaks handling I think, but we discussed that already), and no missing features, no
[10:20] <didrocks> sweet!
[10:20] <didrocks> the line breaks handling was a tradeoff if you remember our discussion
[10:20] <davidcalle> I do, and I explained it to the rest of the docs team
[10:20] <didrocks> good :)
[10:23] <immu> alexarnaud, do you have ALC3661
[10:23] <immu> ?
[12:19] <flexiondotorg> seb128 Thanks for helping alexarnaud. He is discussing this feature with MATE developers.
[12:19] <flexiondotorg> seb128 alex has a specific interest in a11y and this would be a useful feature for his organisation :-)
[13:16] <seb128> flexiondotorg, yw
[14:24] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, did the gedit snap got published?
[14:26]  * kenvandine double check
[14:26] <kenvandine> +s
[14:27] <kenvandine> seb128, whoops... i had forgotten to publish it after the manual review was approved :)
[14:27] <kenvandine> seb128, it's in edge now
[14:27] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:27] <kenvandine> seb128, i'm going to push them all to stable today
[14:27] <kenvandine> after a round of testing
[14:28] <seb128> nice
[14:28] <seb128> what is the list of apps you published?
[14:30] <kenvandine> gedit, gnome-sudoku, quadrapassel, gnome-dictionary, gnome-calculator, and gnome-clocks
[14:30] <kenvandine> working on gnome-maps now
[14:30] <kenvandine> also have wip of gnome-contacts
[14:30] <kenvandine> folks issues iirc
[14:31] <kenvandine> i had to backport libchamplain this morning for gnome-maps
[14:33] <seb128> thanks
[15:11] <kenvandine> seb128, any opinions about adding gjs to the platform snap?
[15:15] <jackpot51> All, I am trying to merge patches to gnome-initial-setup and gnome-control-center for supporting encrypted home. So far, no one has commented on the patches.
[15:15] <jackpot51> Please take a look and comment here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1699216
[15:15] <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1699216 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Encrypted home support" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
=== czajkows1i is now known as czajkowski
=== JanC is now known as Guest32366
[17:16] <Laney> night all
[17:19] <seb128> kenvandine, I think I would be -1 on gjs but need to look at what GNOME does and think a bit more about it
[17:19] <seb128> night Laney & desktopers
[17:21] <kenvandine> seb128, i had avoided adding gjs