[05:32] <didrocks> good morning
[05:33] <jibel> morning didrocks
[05:41] <jamesh> hi didrocks
[06:08] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[06:09] <didrocks> hey jibel, jamesh
[06:12] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel
[06:12] <oSoMoN> hey jamesh
[06:12] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:12] <didrocks> hey oSoMoN!
[06:12] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[06:12] <seb128> hey jamesh oSoMoN didrocks
[06:12] <oSoMoN> jibel, bien les vacances?
[06:13] <didrocks> re seb128
[06:21] <jamesh> I snuck a talk proposal for linux.conf.au in yesterday just before the deadline.  Let's see how that goes
[06:22] <seb128> what's the topic?
[06:22] <jamesh> confined apps on the Ubuntu Desktop
[06:23] <seb128> nice
[06:23] <oSoMoN> just snaps, or will you compare existing solutions?
[06:24] <jamesh> oSoMoN: I was thinking of contrasting it a bit with the existing .deb packaging, but mostly about snaps
[06:25] <jamesh> the conf isn't until January, and I don't know if the proposal will be accepted.  At this point, it is just a few paragraphs of abstract
[06:34] <jibel> salut oSoMoN , très bien, 2 semaines aux seychelles à rien faire :) et toi?
[06:35] <oSoMoN> jibel, très bien aussi
[07:13] <duflu> jamesh, man, planning life ahead almost 5 months :)
[07:14] <duflu> Not that they give you any other option...
[07:25] <jamesh> duflu: well, I'd want to go to the conf anyway.
[08:04] <willcooke> morning
[08:04] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:04] <didrocks> feeling better today ?
[08:05] <willcooke> hi didrocks, yeah pretty much cured today. Bit tired still
[08:05] <didrocks> :( what was it? do you know?
[08:05] <willcooke> Felt a bit like flu, aches and pains, being hot and cold at the same time, headache, tired, etc
[08:06] <didrocks> urgh
[08:06] <seb128> hey willcooke, how are you? feeling better? had a good w.e?
[08:07] <seb128> I see you already replied
[08:07] <willcooke> hey seb128! :)
[08:07] <seb128> good to see you are almost over it
[08:14] <oSoMoN> hey willcooke, welcome back to the world of the living
[08:15] <willcooke> :) thanks oSoMoN
[08:31] <willcooke> jibel, morning, hope you had a relaxing holiday!  Potential new use case to add to the testing plan, and not sure how we can do it, but... people are reporting that leaving a GNOME Shell session running for days at a time instead of powering off at the end of the day causes crashes.  Could you add that to your list of things to look in to?
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> good morning desktoppers
[09:07] <seb128> heey chrisccoulson how are you?
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, I'm not too bad thanks. Quiet day today (the kids are at their nan's house) :)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> how about you?
[09:09] <oSoMoN> good morning chrisccoulson
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> hi oSoMoN
[09:09] <oSoMoN> chromium-browser 60.0.3112.78 on your list for today?
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, yeah
[09:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I'm good thanks! Lucky you to have a quiet day, no such luck here :-/
[09:40] <seb128> I understand what GNOME designers mean by "distraction free"
[09:40] <seb128> I'm not even being distracted by things I would like to know about, I'm missing the messaging menu icon and the badges on the launcher for e.g unread irc messages
[09:41] <seb128> I wonder how other GNOME users deal with not missing messages&such
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, I miss that too
[09:43] <oSoMoN> seb128, same here, I find I often miss IRC highlights because of missing indicator/launcher badges
[09:46] <didrocks> seb128: there is no glib bzr branch that we maintain, only source package (just double checking before going ahead)?
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, that's right, glib is in sync most of the time so a branch would keep getting outdated
[09:47] <didrocks> makes sense! Thanks :)
[09:47] <seb128> better to get your change through Debian if you can
[09:47] <seb128> I think L_aney might get annoyed if it gets out of sync :p
[09:48] <didrocks> yeah, but I need to experiment first (fortunately it will only be a cherry-picking)
[09:48] <didrocks> or do you want to sponsor it in debian ?
[09:48] <didrocks> I don't have upload rights there, and the patch isn't a cherry-pick yet
[09:48] <didrocks> (the ones from desrt)
[09:50] <seb128> I think it's fine to distro patch and send to L_aney a note/msg about it
[09:50] <seb128> I didn't commit to pkg-gnome for a while, I don't even have checkouts or anything configured on that box
[09:50] <didrocks> sounds sensible to me, so yeah, will do!
[09:50] <seb128> I could look at that but it's going to take more efforts that it's worth and they might find it inappropriate that I do that since I'm unactive
[09:50] <seb128> thanks
[09:51] <seb128> I should start doing some work again there
[09:51] <didrocks> sure
[09:53] <ouroumov> Hello, not sure if this is the right place to talk about this, but I've just spend a lot of time to sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.
[09:53] <seb128> ouroumov, hey, #ubuntu-devel might be a better channel if the topic is about Ubuntu and not desktop specific
[09:53] <ouroumov> Thanks
[10:41] <seb128> does anyone has gnome-tweak-tool installed on artful?
[10:41] <seb128> do you get a launcher icon for it?
[10:42] <willcooke> seb128, any extensions installed for the launcher, or just the thing on the left in Activities?
[10:43] <seb128> willcooke, left in activities, menu in the top left panel, alt-tab
[10:43] <seb128> no extensions
[10:43] <seb128> the icon is right in the dash though
[10:44] <willcooke> seb128, confirmed, I get the "missing icon" icon.  The black box and red circle thing
[10:44] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[10:46] <seb128> willcooke, reported as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-tweak-tool/+bug/1709058
[12:01] <muktupavels> didrocks: did you use original desrt patches or patches that I updated?
[12:02] <muktupavels> didrocks: I found few problems with patches
[12:02] <didrocks> muktupavels: yeah, I'm pinging desrt as well. Did you get something similar?
[12:03] <muktupavels> yes, dconf-editor always used default value and I had also criticals
[12:03] <muktupavels> see my comments
[12:03] <muktupavels> criticals is because of missing null check
[12:03] <didrocks> and that's why it's reverting to default overriden value?
[12:04] <muktupavels> patch "gsettings: cleanup default value lookup" had missing null check and after it gsettings always was using default value
[12:04] <muktupavels> it is just using default
[12:04] <didrocks> ahah :)
[12:04] <didrocks> good finding
[12:04] <didrocks> I was about to dig into it
[12:04] <muktupavels> please test with patches that I attached
[12:04] <didrocks> then, after refreshing my session and restarting my browser (just to post feedback), I saw your post :)
[12:04] <didrocks> yeah
[12:04] <muktupavels> they are same with problems fixed
[12:04] <didrocks> doing
[12:08] <didrocks> muktupavels: building, let's see how it goes :)
[12:08] <didrocks> muktupavels: thanks for keeping an eye on this!
[12:09] <muktupavels> didrocks: I just want see this finally merged in glib
[12:10] <didrocks> yeah, we used GUADEC to give another example on why this is important for GNOME
[12:11] <didrocks> muktupavels: but be patient, first time we talked about it with desrt was in… 2010! (for Ubuntu Netbook) ;)
[12:11]  * didrocks is glad this is moving forward
[12:20] <muktupavels> didrocks: that is long time...
[12:21] <muktupavels> didrocks: suffix vs. prefix; what do you prefer? I prefer to use prefix, but desrt added it as suffix.
[12:22] <jbicha> good morning
[12:22] <oSoMoN> hey jbicha
[12:22] <seb128> hey jbicha
[12:24] <jbicha> I like the symbolic app icons in the top bar :)
[12:25] <didrocks> muktupavels: I don't have any strong opinion. suffix is great because you see first the key, which is what you are really interested in
[12:25] <seb128> jbicha, is anyone not liking them?
[12:25] <didrocks> hey jbicha
[12:25] <jbicha> did_rocks doesn't ;)
[12:25] <didrocks> well, for consistency reason :p
[12:25] <seb128> what we don't like is the mix of symbolic and colored icons displayed there
[12:25] <seb128> the idea is nice
[12:26] <seb128> the implementation makes it impossible to have consistency
[12:26] <seb128> unless you own all the apps or have a way to enforce that apps use a symbolic icon
[12:26] <didrocks> even if we had symbolic icon for our themes and GNOME apps
[12:26] <seb128> and we have neither of those
[12:26] <didrocks> I would still be against due to 3rd parties which can't follow them
[12:26] <jbicha> it would be nice to at least have the default install fully support that feature, but it's a downside to Ubuntu shipping more apps that aren't core GNOME than other distros
[12:26] <didrocks> (trademark issue and such…)
[12:27] <seb128> jbicha, then it would look good until you install an app not included in the default set, it still somewhat sucks
[12:27] <seb128> like install chrome and there you are
[12:27] <seb128> or eclipse
[12:27] <jbicha> "app developers: if you want your app to look good on Ubuntu, you should add a symbolic icon"
[12:27] <seb128> right, do that and see how many do it and how long it takes
[12:28] <jbicha> the symbolic icons are more clear because of how tiny the icon is there
[12:29] <jbicha> if we override that to color now, we may never switch
[12:29] <seb128> no need to try to convince me that the idea is good
[12:29] <seb128> I'm just saying that in practice you get a mix of monochrome and colored icon
[12:29] <seb128> and it looks weird
[12:29] <jbicha> I honestly don't think most users will care about some icons being colorful there
[12:29] <seb128> I don't think most users will care about all icons being colorful there
[12:29] <seb128> :-)
[12:29] <jbicha> I haven't heard complaints about it…
[12:30] <seb128> I bet you are not going to hear any about using the colored ones either
[12:30] <seb128> that's not the sort of details users go complain about
[12:31] <seb128> oh, using hexchat atm and the icon is colored :p
[12:32] <jbicha> yeah, it's not important enough for me to fight for, I was just sharing my opinion :)
[12:32] <jbicha> didrocks: I'm uncomfortable with turning the 'gnome-session' package into a metapackage like you proposed in your blog
[12:33] <didrocks> jbicha: I don't mention it as a metapackage, I just mention it as giving the "gnome" session
[12:33] <didrocks> which is the upstream default
[12:33] <didrocks> where/if you want to add more GNOME apps is up to you I think, adding deps
[12:33] <didrocks> (need to reboot to test the glib patch, brb)
[12:34] <jbicha> well I guess that's strictly true, but it wouldn't really be the upstream default without a settings override package
[12:34] <jbicha> bye…
[12:34] <seb128> jbicha, do you have any clue about why tweak doesn't have an icon matching under wayland?
[12:36] <jbicha> seb128: I'm not sure yet, I wonder if that broke when the app was renamed recently?
[12:37] <seb128> jbicha, could be, I didn't try it before the rename
[12:37] <seb128> the rename was in 3.25?
[12:37] <jbicha> yes, 3.25.4
[12:38] <didrocks> muktupavels: works perfectly well
[12:38] <didrocks> will report that on the bug :)
[12:38] <seb128> jbicha, right, it's fine in 3;24
[12:38] <seb128> I just downgraded the deb
[12:38] <jbicha> didrocks: well I guess that's strictly true (about gnome-session), but it wouldn't really be the upstream default without a settings override package
[12:38] <didrocks> tried on wallpaper key
[12:38] <didrocks> jbicha: no, we are going to ship per-desktop override
[12:38] <didrocks> which is exactly what I'm trying right now
[12:38] <didrocks> + g-s mode
[12:39] <didrocks> so you will have upstream default, withot a settings override package :)
[12:39] <jbicha> oh
[12:39] <didrocks> without*
[12:39]  * didrocks is excited about providing this
[12:47]  * didrocks is giving more tests, bbl
[12:54]  * didrocks sees override cleanup opportunity
[13:05] <muktupavels> didrocks: do you know how to contact desrt so he could look at updated patches? Or we need just wait?
[13:05] <didrocks> muktupavels: I did contact her by telegram, she answered she will have a look today or tomorrow to it
[13:06] <darkxst> hey desktopers!
[13:06] <darkxst> its taken years to get those per-session overrides ;)
[13:06] <didrocks> yeah, it's nice to see them happening :)
[13:07] <didrocks> just a note: it's per-desktop overrides, which is even better for us)
[13:19] <didrocks> question for the audience
[13:20] <didrocks> so, to minimize our repeated per-desktop overrides, I propose we put most of our override to "ubuntu-base"
[13:20] <didrocks> that we, we can share overrides between Unity and GNOME-Shell, ubuntu session
[13:20] <didrocks> so, we would have:
[13:20] <didrocks> DesktopNames=ubuntu:ubuntu-base:GNOME for GNOME shell, ubuntu session
[13:21] <didrocks> DesktopNames=GNOME for vanilla GNOME shell
[13:21] <didrocks> and DesktopNames=Unity:ubuntu-base for Unity
[13:21] <didrocks> (just to avoid overriding the themes twice or more for deratives for gtk themes, default fonts and such)
[13:21] <didrocks> wdyt?
[13:23] <jbicha> didrocks: vanilla GNOME should use Adwaita, right?
[13:24] <darkxst> didrocks, the majority of the overrides we had, were going back to upstream defaults
[13:25] <darkxst> i.e reverting the unity overrides
[13:25] <darkxst> there were a few things like wallpapers etc, but not a lot
[13:26] <didrocks> jamesh: jbicha correct, and non ubuntu font and such
[13:26] <didrocks> this is why I was thinking putting those overrides on "ubuntu-base"
[13:26] <didrocks> and leave upstream's default
[13:26] <didrocks> (not for all overrides, but only for those making sense ofc)
[13:27] <didrocks> like no debian-specific integration changes
[13:28] <Laney> morning
[13:28] <darkxst> hey Laney
[13:29] <oSoMoN> hey Laney
[13:29] <didrocks> hey Laney, how is debconf?
[13:29] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[13:30] <Laney> hi darkxst oSoMoN didrocks seb128
[13:30] <Laney> I'm tired!
[13:30] <Laney> but debconf is good so far
[13:30] <Laney> nice to see old faces again
[13:31] <Laney> how's it going here?
[13:34] <seb128> Laney, busy as usual :-)
[13:34] <didrocks> yepppppp! preparing changes to be released daily next week!
[13:37] <jbicha> seb128: how should we handle the switch to mozjs52? discuss it in tomorrow's meeting?
[13:37] <seb128> jbicha, otp, replying in a bit
[13:40] <darkxst> seb128, jbicha I would suggest landing it against the current 3.24 pacakges (apart from gjs ofc)
[13:41] <darkxst> not that I have tested it yet, gnome-shell should need just a few patches
[13:42] <darkxst> other gjs apps only really need patches if you want to quieten the log spew
[13:43] <didrocks> testing gdm now
[14:03] <seb128> jbicha, can you give some details on what is needed for the transition?
[14:04] <jbicha> seb128: we need the new gjs version (associated with GNOME 3.24) and the mozjs52 binaries will need to be promoted to main instead of mozjs38
[14:05] <darkxst> that would gjs associated with 3.26
[14:05] <jbicha> yes, thanks!
[14:06] <jbicha> GNOME 3.24 stuff works with the new gjs/mozjs except there's a lot of warnings output like seen on comment #3 of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/785568
[14:06] <darkxst> gnome-shell needs some other patches
[14:06]  * darkxst must sleep, final leg back home tomorrow!
[14:07] <jbicha> good night!
[14:08] <darkxst> I will try and follow up on any questions that arise in the meeting!
[14:13] <darkxst> night all!
[14:14] <seb128> jbicha, k, meeting done
[14:14] <seb128> jbicha, we should have the discussion about GNOME 3.24 vs 26 at the same time maybe?
[14:14] <jbicha> ok, Will suggested in Trello we discuss 3.26 in tomorrow's meeting
[14:15] <seb128> right, that was the meeting I was in
[14:15] <seb128> we reviewed the trello board for feature freeze
[14:26] <seb128> jbicha, it looks like there is nothing special/problematic about GNOME 3.26 right?
[14:28]  * kenvandine is thinking the unity8-calendar snap interface should just be renamed to calendar or eds-calendar and remove the sync-monitor bits
[14:32] <jbicha> seb128: my biggest concern is the new shell for gnome-control-center but it hasn't landed as default yet so maybe that won't be an issue
[14:33] <seb128> jbicha, I talked to Bastien about it at GUADEC and it didn't sound like it was going to land this cycle
[14:33] <didrocks> what isn't going to land? (back after crashing gdm with pure css! :))
[14:35] <jbicha> didrocks: the new shell for gnome-control-center for 3.26
[14:37] <seb128> didrocks, the g-c-c new design
[14:37] <didrocks> oh right
[14:37] <jbicha> it sounds in #control-center (on GNOME IRC) like it would be an easy distro-patch if we wanted the old one still for 3.26 if they do switch
[14:37] <seb128> right
[14:38] <seb128> didrocks, if you want to help testing the new version Bastien said that would be welcome ;-)
[14:38] <jbicha> the new design works, but there are likely to be a few issues because hardly anyone has used it yet
[14:38] <didrocks> seb128: not in the coming 2 weeks though, especially with the other changes I have to make
[14:38] <jbicha> it's available in the gnome3-staging ppa for artful, just run gnome-control-center-alt to try it
[14:38] <didrocks> but afterwards, no worry
[14:39] <didrocks> we have some incoming patches for sound and panel though
[14:39] <didrocks> we'll see
[14:39] <seb128> didrocks, right, I was expecting that
[14:39] <seb128> jbicha, thanks
[14:40] <didrocks> seb128: not sure if you answered on the "ubuntu-base", fine by you?
[14:40] <didrocks> (better name welcomed, but "ubuntu-common" doesn't sound fancy)
[14:40] <seb128> didrocks, oh, I did but you were off IRC I think
[14:40] <jbicha> GNOME 3.26 also has a tracker2 transition but that doesn't seem that disruptive either (rebuild of rdepends done in the staging ppa already)
[14:42] <seb128> there is a new tracker?
[14:42] <seb128> anyway we don't use tracker so I don't think we care
[14:43] <jbicha> yes, it doesn't seem like an issue at all :)
[16:51] <seb128> jbicha, is there still vala 0.36 build failures to deal with? the trello card doesn't make it easy to see what is needed, the ppa listed has most of its packages superseeded by archive versions
[16:53] <jbicha> seb128: I've been keeping the ppa up-to-date, stuff shows up as superseded because I use 'backportpackage' because it's easy
[16:54] <seb128> jbicha, so what needs work is what failes to build in that ppa current view?
[16:55] <jbicha> but I guess the Desktop Team isn't that interested in the remaining packages, I forwarded the ibus/libkkc patches to Debian
[16:55] <jbicha> I'll go ahead and mark it as done
[16:55] <seb128> jbicha, thanks
[16:59] <willcooke> night all, see you tomorrow
[17:34] <jbicha> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/785956
[18:12] <kenvandine> jbicha, yeah we discussed that at guadec
[18:56] <oSoMoN> night all