[07:33] Morning guys [07:33] popey, wanna do the follow up hangout this week? [13:51] czajkowski: wow, evman.io is fantastic! [13:52] yes [13:52] :D [13:52] makes my life very simple [13:53] https://devrel.net/tools/evman-event-management-tool-devrel-teams [14:09] ugh, why does it have to be ruby [14:13] lol [14:13] thats what Laurent said [14:13] but he's been submitting back features and has his own version running [14:18] does anyone know when the list for CC voting will be out? [14:39] ahoneybun: it's usually pretty soon after mark short-lists candidates [15:04] mhall119: I have a slight feeling I will be short-listed [16:19] popey: so my prof at my Microsoft Server class does not use Ubuntu because of the Amazon spyware [16:20] just wanted to share that [16:20] What do they use ahoneybun ? [16:21] well for server he uses CentOS but he has Windows on Desktop [16:21] but has the WSL I think [16:21] and he is worried about spyware? [16:21] I told him the flavors don't have the amazon stuff [16:22] Neither does Ubuntu [16:22] he says it's against the GPL [16:22] what is? [16:22] it's on the ISO so it is shipped [16:22] shipping spyware [16:22] well, it's okay to be wrong [16:24] the Unity spyware is still shipped I think tbh [16:28] popey: where can I get the package list? [16:28] cdimage does not have the desktop image just server [16:29] the online search feature that you fondly call spyware, was disabled in 16.04 [16:29] so perhaps they're using an older release [16:30] but from 16.04 onwards there is no online search. It can be re-enabled. [16:30] There _is_ an Amazon icon in the launcher by default, but that is literally a shortcut to their website with a tag in the url, nothing more. [16:30] you could boot a vm of a clean install to show what's installed. [16:31] but i know for sure that it was removed in 16.04 because I was one of the people lobbying for it. So I remember it quite vividly. [16:32] disabled =/ not installed [16:33] ahoneybun: you have control over it; it is *not* enabled by default. [16:33] ahoneybun: to be clear, what is your definition of "spyware"? [16:33] and it is a long way from being spyware [16:34] or, better, what is the prof's definition of spyware? [16:35] To be 100% clear. The online search feature in the dash is _off_ by default in 16.04 and beyond. [16:35] by the haters definition of spyware, most of the internet is spyware (search engines, social media, etc) [16:35] ^ indeed [16:35] The online search which searched stores for relevant things is _not_ installed in 16.04 and beyond [16:35] based on observation, these are people who already dislike Ubuntu for whatever reason and are just looking for an excuse [16:36] so ahoneybun it's both disabled (no traffic leaving your machine when you search in the dash) and it's not installed (no information transmitted to amazon or whoever) by default. [16:36] (including our free software luminaries, who have long hated Canonical and the commercialization of Linux) [16:37] http://imgur.com/a/czMSP this is the default in 16.04 [16:38] http://imgur.com/a/7v7oB this is what happens if you flip the online search on in 16.04 [16:38] It doesn't search amazon (or the other stores - it wasn't only amazon, contrary to popular opinion) even if you turn it on [16:40] ahoneybun: It's certainly an interesting discussion to have. There's a lot of misinformation out there. [16:40] Unfortunately much of it is well ingraned, so once someone has that perspective, shifting it is hard. [16:43] cognitive bias is expected. Once one accepts something as a tautological truth, changing opinions is difficult [16:44] but it always irks me when a so-called professor does not keep updated with the developments [16:44] I'm sure if I was a professor I couldn't be expected to keep up with everything :) [16:45] no, not with everything, it is rather difficult, if not impossible. But if I, as a professor, state something, I should at least try to make sure it is up-to-date [16:46] and not based on old hearsay [16:47] if a prof is calling that spyware, I'd question his ability to be a prof tbh, clearly doesnt know what he's talking about [16:47] well at least if you're going to say something make sure your facts were correct [16:48] when I was teaching, I would say "I do not know" if I did not know something; in some cases, this might end as a project, to find more [16:49] (involving the class) [16:50] czajkowski: reading stallman [16:50] but I don't question his ability [16:51] ahoneybun: who is ? [16:51] my prof [16:51] tbf Stallman is on the very end of extream [16:51] *extreme [16:51] RMS is a true visionary. Pretty much as all true visionaries, his position is at one extreme [16:52] spyware I think would be anything that sends data out to a 3rd party [16:52] but that makes any Google product/service as one [16:52] visionaries are important (but not always correct) [16:53] spyware should be anything that collects data without (1) clearly informing it is doing so; (2) clearly informing what it will be used for; (3) not offering you a way to decline [16:53] tho I'm sure all Canoncial employees are done hearing about the spyware thing lol [16:54] yes, it will be going on for a long time. But then this is true on pretty much anything Canonical does, since there is this bad blood [16:55] czajkowski: tbf he teaches Microsoft Server anyway [16:55] and, by extension, with Ubuntu [16:55] but does use CentOS and such [16:56] which is owned by RH... [16:56] and? [16:58] I am always surprised that people see CentOS (or Fedora) as something independent from RH, and see Ubuntu and see Ubuntu as "what Canonical wants" [16:59] I did not say that [17:00] I know. [17:00] CentOS for him is much better then Ubuntu Server [17:00] as Companies use RH and SUSE more [17:02] and Oracle Linux, pretty much forced on anyone that deploys Oracle on Linux [17:02] (which, BTW, still carries (c) from RH) [17:03] yea we talked about that [19:07] talking about the search stuff being disabled, why would I get the following on a minimal 16.04 server installation? [19:07] Aug 8 20:53:57 localhost.localdomain /usr/lib/snapd/snapd[8060]: retry.go:61: DEBUG: The retry loop for https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/metadata finished after 4 retries, elapsed time=40.001806181s, status: Post https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/metadata: net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while awaiting headers) [19:08] (which, BTW, still carries (c) from RH)/join #ubuntu-communitycouncil [19:08] sigh [19:08] obvously on a private network with no direct connectivity, hence why it is failing [19:09] inetpro: snapd looking for updates [19:10] and if I don't use snapd? [19:10] inetpro: one for http://forum.snapcraft.io/ perhaps? [19:10] it'll still look [19:10] same as update-manager [19:10] you can uninstall snapd if you dont use it [19:12] is there a good reason to have snapd installed by default? [19:12] yes, so people can install snaps :) [19:13] ok, let me rephrase... could there be a good reason to have snapd installed on a typical web server [19:14] sure, if the owner wanted to install snaps of applications on it :D [19:14] nextcloud, postgresql, other databases etc [19:14] which will only work if you open the firewall to the store, currently [19:15] * inetpro clearly needs to explore snapd a little more [19:30] ansible xenial-servers -m apt -sKa "name=snapd state=absent purge=yes" [21:40] popey: OpenHelp would be a good platform for it [21:40] that https://popey.com/blog/posts/ubuntu-community-hub-proposal.html [21:40] GNOME docs people are going to be there [21:44] also I think this can go: https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/