[07:33] <Mister_Q> Morning guys
[07:33] <Mister_Q> popey, wanna do the follow up hangout this week?
[13:51] <mhall119> czajkowski: wow, evman.io is fantastic!
[13:52] <czajkowski> yes
[13:52] <czajkowski> :D
[13:52] <czajkowski> makes my life very simple
[13:53] <czajkowski> https://devrel.net/tools/evman-event-management-tool-devrel-teams
[14:09] <mhall119> ugh, why does it have to be ruby
[14:13] <czajkowski> lol
[14:13] <czajkowski> thats what Laurent said
[14:13] <czajkowski> but he's been submitting back features and has his own version running
[14:18] <ahoneybun> does anyone know when the list for CC voting will be out?
[14:39] <mhall119> ahoneybun: it's usually pretty soon after mark short-lists candidates
[15:04] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I have a slight feeling I will be short-listed
[16:19] <ahoneybun> popey: so my prof at my Microsoft Server class does not use Ubuntu because of the Amazon spyware
[16:20] <ahoneybun> just wanted to share that
[16:20] <popey> What do they use ahoneybun ?
[16:21] <ahoneybun> well for server he uses CentOS but he has Windows on Desktop
[16:21] <ahoneybun> but has the WSL I think
[16:21] <popey> and he is worried about spyware?
[16:21] <ahoneybun> I told him the flavors don't have the amazon stuff
[16:22] <popey> Neither does Ubuntu
[16:22] <ahoneybun> he says it's against the GPL
[16:22] <popey> what is?
[16:22] <ahoneybun> it's on the ISO so it is shipped
[16:22] <ahoneybun> shipping spyware
[16:22] <popey> well, it's okay to be wrong
[16:24] <ahoneybun> the Unity spyware is still shipped I think tbh
[16:28] <ahoneybun> popey: where can I get the package list?
[16:28] <ahoneybun> cdimage does not have the desktop image just server
[16:29] <popey> the online search feature that you fondly call spyware, was disabled in 16.04
[16:29] <popey> so perhaps they're using an older release
[16:30] <popey> but from 16.04 onwards there is no online search. It can be re-enabled.
[16:30] <popey> There _is_ an Amazon icon in the launcher by default, but that is literally a shortcut to their website with a tag in the url, nothing more.
[16:30] <popey> you could boot a vm of a clean install to show what's installed.
[16:31] <popey> but i know for sure that it was removed in 16.04 because I was one of the people lobbying for it. So I remember it quite vividly.
[16:32] <ahoneybun> disabled =/ not installed
[16:33] <hggdh> ahoneybun: you have control over it; it is *not* enabled by default.
[16:33] <popey> ahoneybun: to be clear, what is your definition of "spyware"?
[16:33] <hggdh> and it is a long way from being spyware
[16:34] <hggdh> or, better, what is the prof's definition of spyware?
[16:35] <popey> To be 100% clear. The online search feature in the dash is _off_ by default in 16.04 and beyond.
[16:35] <pleia2> by the haters definition of spyware, most of the internet is spyware (search engines, social media, etc)
[16:35] <hggdh> ^ indeed
[16:35] <popey> The online search which searched stores for relevant things is _not_ installed in 16.04 and beyond
[16:35] <pleia2> based on observation, these are people who already dislike Ubuntu for whatever reason and are just looking for an excuse
[16:36] <popey> so ahoneybun it's both disabled (no traffic leaving your machine when you search in the dash) and it's not installed (no information transmitted to amazon or whoever) by default.
[16:36] <pleia2> (including our free software luminaries, who have long hated Canonical and the commercialization of Linux)
[16:37] <popey> http://imgur.com/a/czMSP this is the default in 16.04
[16:38] <popey> http://imgur.com/a/7v7oB this is what happens if you flip the online search on in 16.04
[16:38] <popey> It doesn't search amazon (or the other stores - it wasn't only amazon, contrary to popular opinion) even if you turn it on
[16:40] <popey> ahoneybun: It's certainly an interesting discussion to have. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
[16:40] <popey> Unfortunately much of it is well ingraned, so once someone has that perspective, shifting it is hard.
[16:43] <hggdh> cognitive bias is expected. Once one accepts something as a tautological truth, changing opinions is difficult
[16:44] <hggdh> but it always irks me when a so-called professor does not keep updated with the developments
[16:44] <popey> I'm sure if I was a professor I couldn't be expected to keep up with everything :)
[16:45] <hggdh> no, not with everything, it is rather difficult, if not impossible. But if I, as a professor, state something, I should at least try to  make sure it is up-to-date
[16:46] <hggdh> and not based on old hearsay
[16:47] <czajkowski> if a prof is calling that spyware, I'd question his ability to be a prof tbh, clearly doesnt know what he's talking about
[16:47] <czajkowski> well at least if you're going to say something make sure your facts were correct
[16:48] <hggdh> when I was teaching, I would say "I do not know" if I did not know something; in some cases, this might end as a project, to find more
[16:49] <hggdh> (involving the class)
[16:50] <ahoneybun> czajkowski: reading stallman
[16:50] <ahoneybun> but I don't question his ability
[16:51] <czajkowski> ahoneybun: who is ?
[16:51] <ahoneybun> my prof
[16:51] <ahoneybun> tbf Stallman is on the very end of extream
[16:51] <ahoneybun> *extreme
[16:51] <hggdh> RMS is a true visionary. Pretty much as all true visionaries, his position is at one extreme
[16:52] <ahoneybun> spyware I think would be anything that sends data out to a 3rd party
[16:52] <ahoneybun> but that makes any Google product/service as one
[16:52] <hggdh> visionaries are important (but not always correct)
[16:53] <hggdh> spyware should be anything that collects data without (1) clearly informing it is doing so; (2) clearly informing what it will be used for; (3) not offering you a way to decline
[16:53] <ahoneybun> tho I'm sure all Canoncial employees are done hearing about the spyware thing lol
[16:54] <hggdh> yes, it will be going on for a long time. But then this is true on pretty much anything Canonical does, since there is this bad blood
[16:55] <ahoneybun> czajkowski: tbf he teaches Microsoft Server anyway
[16:55] <hggdh> and, by extension, with Ubuntu
[16:55] <ahoneybun> but does use CentOS and such
[16:56] <hggdh> which is owned by RH...
[16:56] <ahoneybun> and?
[16:58] <hggdh> I am always surprised that people see CentOS (or Fedora) as something independent from RH, and see Ubuntu and see Ubuntu as "what Canonical wants"
[16:59] <ahoneybun> I did not say that
[17:00] <hggdh> I know.
[17:00] <ahoneybun> CentOS for him is much better then Ubuntu Server
[17:00] <ahoneybun> as Companies use RH and SUSE more
[17:02] <hggdh> and Oracle Linux, pretty much forced on anyone that deploys Oracle on Linux
[17:02] <hggdh> (which, BTW, still carries (c) from RH)
[17:03] <ahoneybun> yea we talked about that
[19:07] <inetpro> talking about the search stuff being disabled, why would I get the following on a minimal 16.04 server installation?
[19:07] <inetpro> Aug  8 20:53:57 localhost.localdomain /usr/lib/snapd/snapd[8060]: retry.go:61: DEBUG: The retry loop for https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/metadata finished after 4 retries, elapsed time=40.001806181s, status: Post https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/metadata: net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while awaiting headers)
[19:08] <hggdh> (which, BTW, still carries (c) from RH)/join #ubuntu-communitycouncil
[19:08] <hggdh> sigh
[19:08] <inetpro> obvously on a private network with no direct connectivity, hence why it is failing
[19:09] <popey> inetpro: snapd looking for updates
[19:10] <inetpro> and if I don't use snapd?
[19:10] <popey> inetpro: one for http://forum.snapcraft.io/ perhaps?
[19:10] <mhall119> it'll still look
[19:10] <mhall119> same as update-manager
[19:10] <popey> you can uninstall snapd if you dont use it
[19:12] <inetpro> is there a good reason to have snapd installed by default?
[19:12] <popey> yes, so people can install snaps :)
[19:13] <inetpro> ok, let me rephrase... could there be a good reason to have snapd installed on a typical web server
[19:14] <popey> sure, if the owner wanted to install snaps of applications on it :D
[19:14] <popey> nextcloud, postgresql, other databases etc
[19:14] <popey> which will only work if you open the firewall to the store, currently
[19:15]  * inetpro clearly needs to explore snapd a little more
[19:30] <inetpro> ansible xenial-servers -m apt -sKa "name=snapd state=absent purge=yes"
[21:40] <ahoneybun> popey: OpenHelp would be a good platform for it
[21:40] <ahoneybun> that https://popey.com/blog/posts/ubuntu-community-hub-proposal.html
[21:40] <ahoneybun> GNOME docs people are going to be there
[21:44] <ahoneybun> also I think this can go: https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/