[01:15] <gamerchick02> i was trying to be funny. didn't work. whoops
[01:15] <greg-g> delayed humor is hard
[01:16] <greg-g> async humor, I guess
[01:27] <jrwren> bonsoir greg-g
[01:46] <greg-g> my neighbor in petaluma, who spent a year or something in France in high school made fun of the french speaking canadians and their "american french" accent :)
[01:56] <gamerchick02> delayed humor is hard. i need to update. then i'm going to bed. see ya'll tomorrow night!
[02:25] <jrwren> i imagine the difference between canadian french adn french french is not like the diff between NE USA english and London english, but more like the difference between Louisiana English and northrn england english.   :)
[02:53] <cmaloney> greg-g: French Canada gets no love
[06:52] <Scary_Guy> because French Canadians loves no one
[11:08] <cmaloney> Good morning
[11:20] <rick_h> Morning
[12:32] <mrgoodcat> morning
[12:33] <mrgoodcat> i think i am about to embark on my first kivy project this evening
[13:38] <rick_h> sounds like a party
[13:38] <rick_h> wasn't brousch all into kivy for a bit?
[13:39] <brousch> I was a core developer for a few years
[13:39] <rick_h> there you go
[13:42] <brousch> Lack of accessibility is really why I stopped. With Kivy, you don't get any of the platforms' built-in accessibility features
[13:43] <brousch> So it's OK for specialty apps and games, but not good for more serious apps
[13:47] <_stink__> mrgoodcat: i just started one also
[14:09] <mrgoodcat> mine is going to be a pi monitored keggerator
[14:09] <mrgoodcat> :)
[14:15] <rick_h> hah, awesome
[14:16] <jrwren> native apps all the way.
[14:16] <jrwren> I made a little native app and showed it to a buddy and of course he had to show me his app. Mine started about 5X faster than his react native app.
[14:17] <jrwren> non-native app frameworks are a joke. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should do something.
[14:18] <rick_h> I think if it speeds up the dev time of a keggerator then by all means
[14:19] <greg-g> yeah, I'm not sure a keggerator app needs the best app store reviews ;)
[14:19] <rick_h> not going to argue for main apps, if you're going after users in an ecosystem you have to buy into the ecosystem beliefs
[14:20] <brousch> mrgoodcat: I did a demo of kivy on rpi a few times
[14:21] <brousch> How are you installing it?
[14:23] <brousch> I liked http://kivypie.mitako.eu/
[14:43] <jrwren> oh yeah, for rpi stuff and personal stuff, use what works.
[14:44] <cmaloney-exile> hola
[14:44] <jrwren> I was just astounded in this case because the startup time was noticable. Like, to the point that I'd think twice about launching the app because the startup time was slow.
[14:44] <rick_h> cmaloney-exile: exile?
[14:45] <cmaloney-exile> Yeah, can't ssh into my remote machine
[14:45] <rick_h> cmaloney-exile: oic, doh
[14:45] <cmaloney-exile> I'm at Mid Michigan for an interview for JoDee
[14:45] <cmaloney-exile> hanging out in their library
[14:48] <brousch> cmaloney: Let JoDee know that we went to the Veen Observatory last night as part of George's Space Camp. His mind was blown at least 3 times.
[14:48] <cmaloney-exile> That's awesome!
[14:48] <cmaloney-exile> Let me guess: Saturn's rings
[14:49] <cmaloney-exile> Jupiter's red spot
[14:49] <cmaloney-exile> and the moon
[14:49] <brousch> close
[14:49] <cmaloney-exile> moons of jupiter?
[14:49] <brousch> Saturn's rings and titan, Jupiter and 4 moons (couldn't quite make out the red spot), and a ring nebula
[14:49] <cmaloney-exile> Oh wow
[14:49] <brousch> Then ISS flyover
[14:50] <cmaloney-exile> <3
[14:50] <greg-g> niiiice
[14:50] <cmaloney-exile> Will let her know
[14:51] <brousch> They even let him rotate the dome
[14:56] <cmaloney-exile> That's awesome!
[14:56] <mrgoodcat> brousch: we aren't actually sure how it will work yet
[14:56] <mrgoodcat> we just got the hardware in yesterday
[14:56] <mrgoodcat> so we're in the playing/planning phase right now
[14:57] <mrgoodcat> out of curiosity, what sorts of problems made you switch away from kivy and what did you switch to?
[14:58] <brousch> Accessibility was really the big one. I watched too many talks about how hard it is for disabled people to use inaccessible apps.
[14:58] <mrgoodcat> also jrwren is there a native app framework you'd recommend? i've played with qt a bit but tbh i haven't done much ui work
[14:58] <mrgoodcat> what about kivy made accessibility hard?
[14:59] <brousch> For mobile, I would go native for that platform. For a kegerrator used by you, kivy is great
[14:59] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: there is only ios and its cocoatouch there. :p
[14:59] <jrwren> QT is pretty terrible at accessibility too, from what I've heard. Maybe fine on win/mac, but terrible on linux
[15:02] <mrgoodcat> does kivy not work with screen readers or something?
[15:06] <brousch> If it does, it just by chance
[15:06] <jrwren> isn't kivy a layer on something else too?  SDL or something?
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> its a layer on top of many other things
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> it supposedly chooses the best thing depending on your environment
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> so you can launch it without x and it will write directly to the framebuffer if need be
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> if i understand correctly
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> which i likely don't :)
[15:09] <mrgoodcat> SDL is listed as a provider. along with pygame, pil, gstreamer, gles, glew, etc...
[15:11] <jrwren> oh, its opengl.
[15:11] <jrwren> that is why no accessibility
[15:11] <mrgoodcat> on startup my hello world app claims to be using sdl2 for Text and Window objects, and img_tex, img_imageio, img_dds, img_sdl2, img_gif (img_pil, img_ffpyplayer ignored) for Image objects
[15:11] <jrwren> GLES2 does run everywhere, so it makes for a nice abstraction layer.
[15:12] <mrgoodcat> [INFO   ] [GL          ] Using the "OpenGL ES 2" graphics system
[15:22] <brousch> Yeah, it runs everywhere, but the widgets are all custom components
[17:51] <notlikethesoup> hi mrgoodcat
[18:53] <mrgoodcat> hi
[20:24] <brousch> for cmaloney https://zachholman.com/posts/javacript-haters