[06:50] <chesedo> morning all
[07:08] <nlsthzn> Goeie more Suid Afrika
[07:09] <inetpro> goeiedag nlsthzn, chesedo, en die res van die aardbolbewoners 
[07:13] <nlsthzn> *yawn* :)
[07:20] <chesedo> nlsthzn: that's how i'm feeling
[07:20] <nlsthzn> feels like this is my current state of being :/ day in and day out... oh well :p
[07:28] <ebusuku> join #django
[08:08] <nlsthzn> \o/ CPU cooler and 8 giggle-bits more RAM arrived... this system will be going down soon :p
[09:16] <chesedo> nlsthzn: how does the new giggles feel?
[09:17] <nlsthzn> sweet :) - and the temps are looking good :)
[09:18] <chesedo> nlsthzn: did you stress test it?
[09:19] <nlsthzn> going to give it some time for everything to settle... then I will give it some gas
[09:20] <chesedo> oh, what is the standard soft used for testing these days?
[09:20] <nlsthzn> not sure in linux... will look into it (push comes to shove I will just push a game or something
[09:50] <nlsthzn> :( Starcraft Remastered doesn't want to start
[09:50] <nlsthzn> gives a wine error about running in 256 colors >.<
[10:15] <nlsthzn> well, with the same CPU load two hours ago I was seeing temperatures 20 degC higher than now... so that is a win in my books :D
[10:15] <nlsthzn> Cooler Master FTW :D
[11:32] <Kilos> hi guys ill try be awake for tonights meeting
[12:15] <chesedo> hi oom Kilos
[12:16] <Kilos> hi chesedo and other lurkers
[12:16] <Kilos> oh an inetpro 
[12:16] <Kilos> hi ebusuku 
[12:16] <ebusuku> Hi Kilos
[12:17] <Kilos> wonder who that is
[12:17] <Kilos> you new here?
[12:17] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn 
[12:17] <ebusuku> not really, just have not been here is a couple yrs
[12:17] <Kilos> hahaha
[12:18] <nlsthzn> hey uncle Kilos :)
[12:18] <ebusuku> s/is/for
[12:18] <Kilos> well welcome back then
[12:18] <ebusuku> :)
[12:19] <Kilos> hows ahab land behaving nlsthzn 
[12:19] <nlsthzn> hot as hell and twice as humid... other than that same old
[12:19] <nlsthzn> and ZA land?
[12:19] <Kilos> still cold here and windy month now
[12:21] <nlsthzn> ah yes, good old August :)
[14:32] <SugarHigh> waar is oom Kilos ?
[15:34] <Kilos> SugarHigh hi there
[15:34] <Kilos> who are you
[15:34] <Kilos> was napping sorry
[15:36] <SugarHigh> ekke is 'totimkopf'
[16:03] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:34] <SugarHigh> is Delphi gewild in ZA?
[16:41] <MaNI> there is a small market for it, not nearly as large as other languages
[17:30] <paddatrapper> SugarHigh: Dis nou wat die skole moet gebruik
[17:30] <SugarHigh> paddatrapper: lekker!
[17:31] <SugarHigh> ek dink dat Delphi (Object Pascal) baie cool is
[17:35] <chesedo> SugarHigh: do not get me started on delphi...
[17:36] <SugarHigh> chesedo: wat is fout met Delphi
[17:36] <chesedo> having been forced to use a 10year old version for school grew a massive dislike for me
[17:36] <SugarHigh> lol
[17:37] <chesedo> although oddly enough, I do like C++ very much
[17:37] <SugarHigh> chesedo: welke weergawe Delphi?
[17:38] <MaNI> don't see why that should be odd, despite a lot of people making a lot of noise that you should hate C++ it's actually a very powerful widespread and successful language
[17:38] <MaNI> that is constantly improving.
[17:39] <chesedo> we used Delphi 2003 in the year 2014 - i think that was
[17:39] <chesedo> SugarHigh: the bit more verbose version is that I already knew VB, and some PHP, JS and C++ and then felt that it was cribling
[17:40] <chesedo> delphi and C++ are quite similar - the delphi docs even have most examples in both langs
[17:40] <SugarHigh> chesedo: are you sure it wasn't crippling just because it was a new language for you?
[17:45] <chesedo> SugarHigh: my original rant -> http://disq.us/p/hwzz39
[17:46] <MaNI> why did they got o java to begin with, they should have just stuck with pascal :/
[17:47] <SugarHigh> chesedo: they *could* have saved money by using lazarus + free pascal
[17:48] <SugarHigh> ah, wait the money is in retraining teachers
[17:48] <chesedo> or just go with Python
[17:48] <SugarHigh> whose idea was it to go Delphi? what is ZA's affinity with Delphi?
[17:49] <chesedo> well it seems that my original ranting was premature... 
[17:51] <MaNI> If I had to venture I guess I'd say that they couldn't find anyone who both knows java and is willing to take a lowly teacher salary
[17:51] <SugarHigh> aw
[17:51] <MaNI> before they jumped to Java pascal was what schools used, there are a bunch of "teacher level" people around who know enough pascal to pretend they are teaching people but not enough to be a programmer
[17:52] <SugarHigh> ah I see MaNI 
[17:52] <MaNI> so going back to Delphi means they may actually be able to find some teachers as opposed to no teachers at all
[17:52] <MaNI> (but just a guess)
[17:54]  * chesedo cannot find a version of that article with the comment restored
[17:54] <MaNI> I don't personally believe that people in the early stages of learning programming should go near UI at all, they should have just stuck to pascal - which was anyway originally intended to be a good language for teaching
[17:55] <chesedo> MaNI: for your FET phase (grade 10-12) i remember working in the gui a lot
[17:56] <chesedo> last year and a half was focused on OOP
[17:56] <SugarHigh> when I was in grade 10-12 (in the US) we just did Turbo Pascal
[18:00] <MaNI> yeah was only TP for us also
[18:06] <superfly> chesedo: when's the meeting?
[18:06] <superfly> (in relative time)
[18:06] <chesedo> superfly: in 24mins
[18:06] <superfly> phew, OK, I didn't miss it
[18:06] <chesedo> and hi, how goes superfly
[18:07] <superfly> hey chesedo, I'm doing well thanks.
[18:07]  * chesedo just finished preparing for it
[18:07] <Kilos> woohoo hi superfly im still awake but ready to doze
[18:07] <Kilos> haha
[18:07] <chesedo> SugarHigh and MaNI: did you goes do version 7?
[18:08] <SugarHigh> I don't remember, I think it was under 5
[18:08] <superfly> Kilos: you can't doze now, it's only 11:08! :-P
[18:08] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:09] <Kilos> freezing and dark here man
[18:09] <chesedo> wiki mentions its last version (version 7) as also being know as Borland Pascal which is the 2003 version i mentioned
[18:09] <Kilos> all good superfly ?
[18:09] <superfly> Kilos: yes, yes
[18:09] <MaNI> yeah I can't honestly remember what version we were on
[18:09] <Kilos> great
[18:09] <superfly> chesedo: I still have my original Turbo Pascal 7 stiffy disks. Even moving across the world wasn't going to stop me from keeping them
[18:10] <MaNI> I learnt pascal/delphi at home from my father while I was still in primary school as well - so it's a blur which version I was using where
[18:10] <MaNI> it was probably 7
[18:11]  * chesedo now wonders if our progressive school system is still on 7 too
[18:11] <superfly> Just remember... the guy who made Turbo Pascal and Delphi went on to create C# and .NET
[18:11] <MaNI> honestly it would be sufficient, at a school level I think teaching some of the basic logic constructs is far more important than being on the leatest and greatest
[18:12] <superfly> Python is a much better teaching tool
[18:12] <MaNI> as I said before letting beginners anywhere near a UI is actually a giant mistake
[18:12] <superfly> ^^ exactly
[18:13] <chesedo> in the middle east, they teach recursive functions at grade 7 and also not GUIs allowed if irc
[18:13] <chesedo> s/not/no/
[18:14] <MaNI> sounds right
[18:15] <chesedo> MaNI: by "basic logic constructs", do you mean some basic boolean logic too?
[18:15] <superfly> From the Wikipedia page on Turbo Pascal: Bill Gates saw the success of Turbo Pascal "in very personal terms, and 'couldn't understand why [Microsoft's] stuff was so slow. He would bring in poor Greg Whitten [programming director of Microsoft languages] and yell at him for half an hour.' He couldn't understand why Kahn had been able to beat an established competitor like Microsoft."
[18:15] <chesedo> lol
[18:16] <superfly> The only reason .NET is any good is because Microsoft (literally) bought the guy who wrote Turbo Pascal and Delphi.
[18:19] <MaNI> Was mostly thinking just your general - while loops, switch statements, recursion and so on mostly.
[18:19] <chesedo> MaNI: right...
[18:19] <MaNI> I'd love to see discrete math and/or formal logic be school subjects in place of some of the other less useful stuff that is tought, but thats a whole other subject ;)
[18:20] <MaNI> *taught
[18:20] <SugarHigh> MaNI: do you think discrete math and formal logic should replace calculus in high schools??
[18:22] <MaNI> I think there is a good argument for it, especially formal logic. I think a proper grasp of formal logic would equip the average person to deal with all sorts of things that life requires in a better way, including seeing through the simple tricks that politicians tend to use to manipulate them.
[18:22] <SugarHigh> :D
[18:22] <SugarHigh> yes, my country could use a healthy dose of that
[18:23] <MaNI> https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ - we should be indoctrinating all children with this sort of stuff - hehe
[18:28] <chesedo> MaNI: with the use of social media (and vast sharing of opinions) in the next gen, i would think that it would be very important
[18:29]  * chesedo puts his racing fingers on
[18:30] <chesedo> Maaz: start meeting about Ubuntu Monthly Meeting - August 2017
[18:30]  * Maaz gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[18:30] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Welcoming and Introduction
[18:30] <Maaz> Current Topic: Welcoming and Introduction
[18:30] <chesedo> Welcome all and thank you for joining in on our 'renewed' monthly meeting
[18:30] <chesedo> As usual, our bot maaz does the minutes, so please introduce yourself to it using `Maaz: I am <firstname lastname>` eg.
[18:30] <chesedo> Maaz: I am Pieter Engelbrecht
[18:30] <Maaz> chesedo: Alrighty
[18:31] <Kilos> Maaz I am Miles Sharpe
[18:31] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[18:31] <chesedo> inetpro Kilos superfly MaNI SugarHigh theblazehen paddatrapper  londoner ^
[18:31] <paddatrapper> chesedo: thanks
[18:31] <paddatrapper> Maaz: I am Kyle Robbertze
[18:31] <Maaz> paddatrapper: Sure
[18:31] <chesedo> paddatrapper: np
[18:31] <superfly> Maaz: I am Raoul Snyman
[18:31] <Maaz> superfly: Righto
[18:31] <londoner> Maaz: I am Paul Romano
[18:31] <Maaz> londoner: Alrighty
[18:32] <Kilos> hi londoner and everyone else
[18:32] <chesedo> psychicist: you might wanna join too
[18:32] <chesedo> Today's agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20170822
[18:32] <Kilos> nag them all chesedo 
[18:32] <chesedo> Any last minute additions are welcome
[18:32] <chesedo> Kilos: i will have to find my nagger first... :P
[18:33] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed All happy with agenda
[18:33] <Maaz> Agreed: All happy with agenda
[18:33] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Review minutes of previous meeting 
[18:33] <Maaz> Current Topic: Review minutes of previous meeting
[18:33] <chesedo> previous meeting minutes is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20170523
[18:33] <superfly> sjoe been ages since the last meeting
[18:33] <chesedo> I will try to be as quick today too :D
[18:33] <paddatrapper> superfly: yeah we kinda forgot the last couple...
[18:34] <chesedo> superfly: yip, we've been missing
[18:34] <chesedo> "forgot"
[18:34] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed All happy with previous minutes
[18:34] <Maaz> Agreed: All happy with previous minutes
[18:34] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Next Steps
[18:34] <Maaz> Current Topic: Next Steps
[18:34] <Kilos> i been sleeping too
[18:34] <chesedo> Anyone needing help on any next steps activities?
[18:35]  * inetpro \o/
[18:35] <inetpro> Maaz I am Gustav H Meyer
[18:35] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure
[18:35] <inetpro> hello everybody
[18:35] <Kilos> lo pro
[18:35] <chesedo> aka: trello, launchpad IDs, mailing list, etc
[18:35] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed No new Next Steps
[18:35] <Maaz> Agreed: No new Next Steps
[18:36] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Events 
[18:36] <Maaz> Current Topic: Events
[18:36] <superfly> I need to kinda "hand over" the mantle of the website to someone, or someoneS preferably
[18:36] <chesedo> upcoming events for the next month are:
[18:36] <chesedo> - Deep Learning Indaba: 11-15 September 2017 (Johannesburg) -> http://www.deeplearningindaba.com/
[18:36] <paddatrapper> that does look interesting... Pitty it's in Joberg
[18:36] <chesedo> superfly: right, will cover under Misc...
[18:36] <superfly> chesedo: ack
[18:37] <chesedo> Is anyone organising anything else or knows of any other upcoming events?
[18:37] <paddatrapper> pyconZA is first week of October, still a while
[18:38] <chesedo> paddatrapper: the same one as here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/UpcomingEvents
[18:38] <chesedo> *?
[18:38] <paddatrapper> chesedo: that's the one
[18:38]  * chesedo have been forgotting to update that too
[18:38] <chesedo> paddatrapper: awesome
[18:39] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed No other events to add
[18:39] <Maaz> Agreed: No other events to add
[18:39] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Miscellaneous
[18:39] <Maaz> Current Topic: Miscellaneous
[18:39] <chesedo> superfly: syn
[18:40] <chesedo> i have not taken another look at the ubuntu edu project since exams
[18:40] <superfly> Right, so I'm on the other side of the world now, and it makes it difficult to co-ordinate with people, so I'm looking for volunteers to take over the website.
[18:40] <chesedo> nor know of any Ubuntu-for-Hope updates
[18:41] <chesedo> superfly: were is it currently at?
[18:41] <chesedo> hardware wise?
[18:41] <inetpro> I don't think there's a need to rush into moving the site
[18:42] <inetpro> unless someone is willing to host and maintain it for us for free
[18:42] <Kilos> take over as in maintain or move superfly 
[18:42] <chesedo> at least it is static - so light weight...
[18:43] <superfly> Kilos: maintain it
[18:44] <Kilos> there you go inetpro 
[18:44] <Kilos> ty superfly
[18:44] <chesedo> superfly: that would be just the bazaar branch right?
[18:44] <superfly> chesedo: it's currently hosted on a box at FrogFoot because it's the same box that hosts the CLUG website. tumbleweed organised it all.
[18:45] <chesedo> superfly: what does maintain currently involve?
[18:45] <superfly> chesedo: essentially yes. but sorting out hosting would probably also be good (I don't mind hosting it on a VPS of mine), and getting some sort of "control" over the domain name itself (Canonical I think owns the domain name and controls the DNS, so we'd need to talk to them if we move the hosting)
[18:45] <chesedo> copying over changes to the box?
[18:46] <superfly> chesedo: checking merge proposals on LP, deploying to the box
[18:46] <superfly> making sure information on the site is up to date, etc
[18:46] <chesedo> paddatrapper and inetpro: you game?
[18:46] <paddatrapper> can that deploy not be automated using a webhook to something?
[18:46]  * chesedo can be one of the volunteers too
[18:46] <paddatrapper> chesedo: Not currently, sorry
[18:47] <chesedo> paddatrapper: np
[18:47] <inetpro> chesedo: between you and me I'm sure we can handle it
[18:47] <chesedo> superfly: pro and i are it :D
[18:48] <Kilos> cool 
[18:48] <Kilos> ty superfly for looking after us for so long
[18:48] <chesedo> yip, ty superfly
[18:49] <superfly> I'm happy to still be around, I just don't have the time to spend on the site (and I'm in the wrong timezone)
[18:50] <chesedo> then last misc, the mini meetings have also gone stale... did you guys find it helpful/interesting?
[18:51] <chesedo> superfly: we don't keep doom in the chan so that you can stay around :P
[18:51] <Kilos> superdoom isnt strong enough
[18:51] <Kilos> hes a tough bug
[18:51] <chesedo> lol, that too
[18:52] <pavlushka> Maaz: I am Pavel Sayekat
[18:52] <Maaz> pavlushka: Alrighty
[18:52] <Kilos> hi pavlushka 
[18:52] <pavlushka> o/ 
[18:52] <superfly> chesedo: I'm sorry, you're not getting rid of me! :-P
[18:52] <pavlushka> ;)
[18:52] <Kilos> dont you dare think of leaving superfly 
[18:52] <Kilos> ever ever ever
[18:52] <superfly> Kilos: I won't ever
[18:53] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed Mini meetings are dead for now
[18:53] <Maaz> Agreed: Mini meetings are dead for now
[18:53] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Next meeting
[18:53] <Maaz> Current Topic: Next meeting
[18:53] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed Next meeting is 26 September 2017 @ 20:30
[18:53] <Maaz> Agreed: Next meeting is 26 September 2017 @ 20:30
[18:53] <chesedo> Maaz: topic Elect chairperson for next meeting 
[18:53] <Maaz> Current Topic: Elect chairperson for next meeting
[18:53] <chesedo> any oldies game for next chair?
[18:54]  * chesedo is available too
[18:54] <Kilos> i would like to thank the young guys for stepping up and doing so much for us
[18:54]  * inetpro will skip 
[18:54] <Kilos> and inetpro for always being there
[18:54] <chesedo> inetpro: i will just have to arrange for Oct... exams again...
[18:54]  * inetpro still has too much to catch up with at work
[18:55] <paddatrapper> I _should_ be free
[18:55] <chesedo> inetpro: np, wil see to find someone in next one then
[18:55] <chesedo> ty paddatrapper, will remember
[18:55] <inetpro> paddatrapper: \o/
[18:55] <chesedo> all good if i take Sept then
[18:55] <Kilos> yip
[18:56] <paddatrapper> cool
[18:56] <chesedo> Maaz: agreed chesedo to chair next meeting
[18:56] <Maaz> Agreed: chesedo to chair next meeting
[18:56] <chesedo> Maaz: end meeting
[18:56] <Maaz> Meeting Ended
[18:56] <Maaz> Minutes available at json: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-08-22-18-30-05.json :: txt: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-08-22-18-30-05.txt :: html: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-08-22-18-30-05.html
[18:56] <inetpro> thanks chesedo
[18:56] <chesedo> oh, and thank you all for attending
[18:56] <chesedo> yw inetpro
[18:56] <Kilos> thank you chesedo and all attendees
[18:56] <pavlushka> Good day everyone :)
[18:58] <chesedo> night pavlushka
[18:58] <pavlushka> night chesedo :)
[18:58] <Kilos> ok guys be good
[18:58] <Kilos> night all . sleep tight
[18:59] <paddatrapper> thanks everyone
[18:59] <chesedo> ja well, night all too
[18:59] <paddatrapper> Kilos: night
[18:59] <Kilos> night frogboots
[18:59] <Kilos> rest well and work hard all of you
[18:59]  * pavlushka thinks so day was wrong ^^
[18:59] <Kilos> night superfly or happy lunch time
[19:00]  * pavlushka meant the whole day though
[19:00] <Kilos> pavlushka normally when we greet at night we say good evening
[19:00] <Kilos> and good night for going to bed
[19:01] <Kilos> good day is a good greeting as well
[19:01] <pavlushka> Kilos: I was bading farewel actually :(
[19:01] <superfly> o/
[19:01] <Kilos> if you say hi then there cant be mistakes
[19:01] <Kilos> aha ok pavlushka 
[19:02] <Kilos> night guys
[19:03] <pavlushka> superfly: I wish eggs on your lunch.
[19:03] <pavlushka> superfly: or I wish you eggs on your lunch.
[19:04] <pavlushka> and every one a pro night :p
[19:37] <theblazehen> Sorry, /me was driving