[01:48] Hold onto your hats. Ubuntu 17.10 is now just days behind the latest Gnome Shell code [05:02] good morning [05:04] o/ didrocks [05:04] hey tsimonq2 [05:50] good morning desktoppers [06:18] Morning didrocks tsimonq2 oSoMoN [06:18] hey flexiondotorg, oSoMoN [06:19] o/ flexiondotorg and oSoMoN [06:19] hey flexiondotorg, didrocks, tsimonq2 [06:22] good morning desktopers [06:22] hey flexiondotorg tsimonq2 oSoMoN [06:22] re didrocks [06:22] o/ seb128 [06:23] Morning seb128 [06:24] Who should I talk to about the nvidia proprietary driver packages? [06:25] They've regressed significantly between 17.10 Alpha 2 and Beta 1. [06:25] Prime simply doesn't work anymore. [06:26] I've had an investigate, got some info. [06:38] flexiondotorg, talk to tseliot [06:38] ty [06:38] yw [06:39] good morning seb128 [07:13] flexiondotorg: can you reproduce the problem and show me your /var/log/gpu-manager.log , please? [07:14] Sure. I've got a couple of meetings and then I'll do more tests. [07:16] The crux of the issue is it is impossible to enable prime. There are no options to enable the nvidia drivers. [07:30] tseliot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25443451/ [07:31] That is what is in /var/log/gpu-manager.log. [07:31] I've just installed updates and there was an update for nvidia-375, so I'm going to reboot and see if anything has changed. === Guest39353 is now known as fredp === fredp is now known as Guest54951 [07:32] I did see this while updating [07:33] Setting up nvidia-375 (375.82-0ubuntu3) ... [07:33] dpkg: error: version '-' has bad syntax: revision number is empty [07:33] INFO:Enable nvidia-375 [07:33] DEBUG:Parsing /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/quirks/put_your_quirks_here [07:33] DEBUG:Parsing /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/quirks/dell_latitude [07:33] DEBUG:Parsing /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/quirks/lenovo_thinkpad [07:33] Loading new nvidia-375-375.82 DKMS files... [07:33] Building for 4.12.0-11-generic [07:33] Building for architecture x86_64 [07:33] Building initial module for 4.12.0-11-generic [07:33] Done. [07:34] flexiondotorg: the nvidia module doesn't seem to be loaded. Also, I don't see your nvidia card in the system (did you disable it from the BIOS?) [07:35] No. I have an nvidia 1080 Ti in a Razer Core connected via Thunderbolt 3. [07:35] good morning all :)! [07:36] good morning alexarnaud === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless [07:42] tseliot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25443484/ [07:42] After update and reboot. [07:43] flexiondotorg: what does your new /var/log/gpu-manager.log look like? [07:44] nvidia-settings is now offering the choice of Intel or Nvidia [07:45] tseliot: Here is the new gpu-manager.log http://paste.ubuntu.com/25443490/ [07:47] So the last update has appeared to resolved the issue I encountered yesterday. [07:50] flexiondotorg: hey, have you pushed the new ambiance gtk theme btw? [07:50] flexiondotorg: I don't see any review on https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/better-destructive-action/+merge/329392, correct? [07:50] didrocks: I'm going to rebase it today. [07:51] flexiondotorg: nice! so all pending branches will be reviewed and package pushed by EOD? \o/ [07:51] I will try. [07:52] I've only got my spare time to work on this. [07:53] flexiondotorg: it looks the same, with nvidia being disabled. If that works, then it's all good [07:58] Yeah, I was able to select nvidia log out/in and all working. [07:59] great [08:02] * Laney nods [08:12] hey Laney, happy friday [08:14] hey seb128, happy friday to you! [08:14] are you well? [08:15] Morning all [08:15] happy friday Laney & davmor2 [08:15] Laney, yes, looking forward getting some more sleep but I managed to get some work done yesterday before going to bed and had an not-too-late morning today so that might be a productive friday :-) [08:15] Laney, you? [08:23] hey didrocks & davmor2! [08:23] seb128: tired too, looking forward to the weekend [08:24] we're supposed to be going to a river or lake or something to go wild swimming, should be fun [08:25] Hey Laney didrocks [08:29] nice [08:44] Trevinho: maybe you would know, the ubuntu font in G-S panel is quite blurry, as you worked on hdpi (but I'm only in 1x), is there any font hinting in the Shell that you know of? [08:45] didrocks: mh, no.... I guess it's because it has a slight shadow [08:45] didrocks: you can check it better by forcing it 2x [08:45] oh, Trevinho is up [08:46] good morning Trevinho :-) [08:46] Trevinho: how can I do this? [08:46] hi seb128, yes :) [08:46] just changing the font size by *2? [08:46] I don't see any shadow that way [08:48] didrocks: mhmh.. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/03ExjSYA/ [08:48] there's shadow, but... might not be very well visible [08:48] Trevinho: you have younger and better eyes than I do :p [08:48] do you know how we can improve this? [08:48] didrocks: maybe younger, not sure if better :-D [08:49] didrocks: it's managed by theme [08:49] Trevinho: is it a css property to disable it? [08:49] Trevinho: rember the shell css is different :p [08:49] didrocks: as for magnifying all up, not sure if you can run gnome-shell nested there with GDK_SCALE=2.. [08:49] yeah, there's a theme node indeed [08:49] let me check which one [08:50] didrocks: here's where is loaded [08:50] https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/EQFegTGS/ [08:50] so... text-shadows: manages it from StLabel [08:51] ah nice! [08:51] let me try to disable it only for the panel [08:51] good morning popey, have you seen jd_strand's questions at https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/chromium-snap-doesnt-work-with-the-nvidia-proprietary-driver/1825/7 ? [08:52] I wonder if there's an easy way for you to test with snapd 2.28 [08:52] didrocks: I guess this one [08:52] #panel .panel-button { [08:52] -natural-hpadding: 12px; [08:52] -minimum-hpadding: 6px; [08:52] font-weight: bold; [08:52] color: #eee; [08:52] text-shadow: 0px 0px 2px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9); [08:52] transition-duration: 100ms; } [08:52] err. sorry for the flooding :| [08:52] Trevinho: yeah, I was on that one [08:52] Trevinho: just trying to see wha tother impacts it has [08:53] Trevinho: and actuallllllllllyyyyyyyyyy no [08:53] :p [08:53] didrocks: mh, it seems here too... mhmh [08:53] let's apply globally first [08:54] hum, no, something is overriding it [08:54] didrocks: might be more local yes [08:55] for example the 'overview' class manages the panel [08:55] Trevinho: no, it's only #panel [08:55] overview is the panel in overview mode [08:57] #panel.solid .panel-button { [08:57] I can at least change the color here :) [08:57] but text-shadow is none [08:57] are you sure the shadow is coming from only that property? [08:58] (.solid is when you have a maximized app or any app touching the top panel) [08:59] Trevinho: confirmed, there is no text-shadow applied to that node, so not that… [08:59] just replace the text-shadow: none with an horrible color [08:59] you will see it's applied [09:00] so, the blur doesn't come from there [09:01] and also way more blurry under wayland [09:01] which is weird [09:01] duflu: hey, any thoughts on this? (fonts is more blurry under wayland in the Shell panel) ^ [09:02] didrocks, I am burried in GDK madness. Can you give more hints as to what you mean? [09:02] ricotz, hey, I’ve got a build of 5.4.1 going in https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/lo-stage/+packages [09:03] duflu: so, wayland session, look at the panel font in the ubuntu session (like date/time entry) [09:03] it's really blurry here [09:03] not that much on X [09:03] Let me check X again [09:04] (the blur is even more visible once we start attaching the gradient from our theme) [09:06] didrocks, Not sure I can see it but I had been suspecting parts of the panel fonts were blurry. That's either a different hinting mode, or lack of subpixel order information. We had the latter problem in Mir (DRM failed to provide it) so I guess X might have been guessing when it wasn't available [09:08] duflu: let me take a screenshot with the new theme, I guess it's really visible there (so that you can confirm) [09:08] didrocks, Confirmed with screenshots - Wayland is missing subpixel info so is doing greyscale [09:09] which is of course a bit more blurry [09:09] I had to zoom into screenshots to see it [09:10] duflu: ah, however, our decorators aren't that blurry, are we giving more font hintings? [09:10] Trevinho: FYI ^ [09:10] * didrocks wonders why his current captures aren't in ~/Images [09:10] didrocks, if ~/Pictures or whatever doesn't exist then they are in ~/ [09:11] well, it's ~/Images in french [09:11] (translated XDG path) [09:11] and not in ~/ [09:11] retrying [09:11] duflu: Trevinho: http://imgur.com/a/I8klB [09:11] Subpixel rendering also seems to have slightly stronger hinting (less vertical blur) but might be in the same hinting level [09:12] we can clearly see that the decoration is "fine", not the panel [09:12] so, missing some hinting info in the Shell? [09:13] didrocks, I think hintint is probably not a contributor. But lack of subpixel definitely is (I can see in my own screenshots) [09:13] duflu: I don't get how the decoration, with the same font size (I think?) is giving a different result [09:14] didrocks, different subpixel order enum passed into the font rendering functions [09:14] ah, that makes sense, so different treatment [09:14] It's blurry on gdm too [09:14] yeah, gdm is actually the Shell [09:14] (same panel, different css class) [09:15] I guess there is no quick way for us to fix this, correct? [09:16] didrocks, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645433 [09:16] Gnome bug 645433 in general "gnome-shell's panel ignores font settings" [Normal,New] [09:19] It's had a patch waiting since 2012 :) [09:19] duflu: I quickly skimmed through it, but yeah, that matches what you were telling [09:19] duflu: unsure the patch fixes it with the followup comments [09:19] That's OK. So long as it's still an open bug [09:19] the patch landed [09:19] though [09:19] in 3.6 [09:24] yeah, it doesn't respect it anymore under wayland, I guess https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1411272 is the good reference [09:24] bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1411272 in gnome-shell "gnome-shell doesn't respect hinting settings under Wayland" [Unspecified,New] [09:25] didrocks, yes seems like the right bug. Where "hinting" means "hinting and subpixel order" [09:26] The extra vertical blur suggests the hinting is different [09:26] duflu: I bet this is quite involved in term of changes and will take time? (I created a trello card anyway so that we can keep an eye on it) [09:26] unfortunately, I find it very glaring with the new theme [09:27] (due to the gradient I guess) [09:28] didrocks, yes I was mostly subconsciously irritated by it. Don't see why it should be a big bug though... most of the code should be common between X and Wayland there. Font rendering is almost always done with software blitting [09:28] I mean I don't see why it should be too hard to fix, but maybe it is [09:29] duflu: ah, if you are hopeful about it and think you can tackle it before release, that's awesome! [09:29] Let me log it as a launchpad bug, I think we'll get people refering to it once I land the new theme [09:29] I hope to have the time in future [09:29] let me target it against gnome-shell, then you can retarget where it fits better (wayland or mutter) [09:30] didrocks, actually there's an old bug I found back in May. You might want to close that and use your new one... [09:31] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/893859 [09:31] Ubuntu bug 893859 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell doesn't support subpixel smoothing" [Medium,Incomplete] [09:31] duflu: which one do you prefer? I can reuse and change the description of the old one if you prefer it that way [09:32] didrocks, I think the old bugs are too old (they don't cover the fact that it works in Xorg) [09:32] duflu: ok, let's close the old one. [09:32] Use a new LP bug and the redhat one [09:34] duflu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/+bug/1714459 [09:34] Ubuntu bug 1714459 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Shell panel font is blurry under wayland" [Undecided,New] [09:34] Fun fun [09:34] thanks a lot for looking at it duflu :) [09:35] (and giving me hints I'm not crazy and my eyes still worth something :p) [09:35] didrocks, no problem. Yes it annoyed me too [09:37] didrocks: mh, not sure then... For sure there's some shadow in the git version I'm using [09:38] Trevinho: look above ^ it's another kind of issues [09:38] not wanted "shadow" at least ;) [09:39] didrocks: ack, I saw that now [09:51] I'm done [09:51] Catch you next week [10:12] oSoMoN: replied to that thread with the data I have.. [10:36] Laney, thanks for your suggestions - I've reworked the two patches; any chance you can pass your eyes over again please ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3/+bug/1703690 [10:36] Ubuntu bug 1703690 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "Add support for Budgie Desktop using GNOME Screensaver" [Undecided,In progress] [10:41] fossfreedom: hopefully later on, have to look at tseliot's patch too but some other things to do first :( [10:49] popey, thanks [10:49] didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1714330 is the multilogin segfault session backtrace [10:49] Ubuntu bug 1714330 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in on_crtc_flipped() from g_closure_invoke() from invoke_flip_closure() from page_flip_handler() from drmHandleEvent()" [Medium,Confirmed] [10:49] jbicha, ^ [10:49] seb128: thx! [10:49] yw [10:50] the upstream bug pointed is fixed in git [10:50] that's not the same report but might be worth testing with current git [10:51] indeed. I won't today, but can add it to next week list [10:51] (big set of patches) [10:51] easier if jbicha makes a git snapshot [10:51] or if we wait for the next tarballs [10:52] yeah, .92 isn't far away [10:58] oSoMoN, hi, ack [10:59] oSoMoN, I assume there are no additional packaging changes compared to the current git tree? [11:03] ricotz, correct [11:07] oSoMoN, ok [11:13] jbicha, hey [11:13] good morning [11:15] jbicha, when you do GNOME updates using meson, can you include a debian/rules snippet like I added to gnome-bluetooth? [11:15] jbicha, [11:15] override_dh_translations: [11:15] ninja -C obj-$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) -pot [11:15] dh_translations [11:16] seb128: you want that for all of main, right? [11:16] jbicha, I've on my todolist to look at the translation tools integration with the new build systems but it's not trivial and meanwhile the workaround would give us working langpacks [11:16] jbicha, those using meson only, but yes [11:16] you need to figure out the manually [11:16] I just got us in sync with Debian on several packages ;) [11:16] don't copy it like that, it's the actual domain [11:17] jbicha, you can diff the pre-meson and new version see if there are strings changes [11:17] I might push that in to Debian since I think an unrecognized override would just be ignored… [11:17] if there are not no need to get the updated template [11:17] k [11:17] put a comment saying it's a temporary hack until dh_translations learn to deal with meson [11:18] since they're getting most of GNOME 3.24 and 3.26 faster than expected, I'm hoping they won't mind [11:18] Trevinho, what's the status of those 2 indicators gcc buildfix landing? [11:19] seb128: do you have a goal of when you want those snippets added by? [11:20] no [11:20] I'm not even sure most projects got strings changes this cycle [11:20] but would be nice to have them as we land 3.26 [11:22] right and meson modules would be mostly likely to be doing 3.25.92 and 3.26 this time (since some modules skip releases) [11:23] jbicha, if you can do to or include those changes when you do updates that would be useful [11:24] jbicha, but let me know if you want me to look list and check which ones are needed [11:24] that's a bit of work but maybe most have no string change [11:24] sure, mostly done with Debian updates this week [11:25] seb128: what about LP: #1688994 since that's not strictly meson? [11:25] Launchpad bug 1688994 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) "dh-translations: cannot build POT without intltool" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688994 [11:26] jbicha, it's on my todolist for a while, just didn't get to it yet [11:26] meson projects don't use intltool but some other stuff doesn't use intltool either [11:26] ok [11:26] do you have an example or non-meson non-intltool? [11:27] gnome-sudoku [11:27] thanks [11:28] btw, LP: #1631750 is a high priority bug for language support [11:28] Launchpad bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631750 [11:28] right [11:28] that broke when we updated to PackageKit1 last year [11:28] still quite some work to do this cycle :-/ [11:30] decision on trying to land a mutter git snapshot in artful or wait until later next week for next tarball release? [11:30] I think it can wait next week [11:31] but if you have the slots to do a snapshot that would be useful [11:31] could avoid a few users to loose work by having their session closing [11:31] if that actually fixes the segfault [11:33] I guess the nice part about a snapshot is if we find any thing that still doesn't work, there are still a few days before 3.26 code freeze for those to get fixed [11:34] too bad mutter isn't using meson yet because making tarballs with meson is pretty easy these days [11:40] hehe [11:41] jbicha, gnome-sudoko should be easy to fix for dh_translations, but unsure how common that case is [11:41] it has a configure.ac with the gettext domain [11:41] but most projects do [11:41] GETTEXT_PACKAGE= [11:41] AC_SUBST(GETTEXT_PACKAGE) [11:41] where gnome-sudoku does [11:41] AC_SUBST([GETTEXT_PACKAGE], [gnome-sudoku]) [11:42] our parser does [11:42] $domain = $1 if /^GETTEXT_PACKAGE\s*=\s*(\S*)/; [11:42] so we can easily add a regexp for the other syntax [11:42] that's sort of what happened with evolution except evolution is cmake and we don't do much cmake now? [11:43] not really, we do cmake as well [11:43] but evolution has the subst using a variable [11:43] like $project_name or something [11:43] and we don't do variables resolution [11:44] that's too complex for our simple tool, we don't want to reimplement a build system parser :-) [11:45] ok [12:02] Trevinho, hey, did you see my ping earlier? [12:02] seb128: hey, no... sorry [12:03] Trevinho, k, no worry, what's the status of the indicator build fixes landing? [12:03] seb128: indicators landing is fine for me, we need to publish it though.. [12:03] that was my question [12:03] seb128: I've no powers for that [12:04] then ping/ask on the channel! :-) [12:04] seb128: and dobey asked something in ubuntu-devel IIRC [12:04] right, let's ignore that cleanup for now, it's not important [12:04] I was just looking at the approved changes when we discussed doing a landing [12:05] seb128: ok, so feel free to publish it... Sorry I didn't pinged you about, I thought you were monitoring the silo :) [12:05] no [12:06] I don't even know what silo that is [12:06] you said you would move them out of the silo that includes unity [12:06] https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2928 [12:06] thanks [12:08] I still have build issue in the unity side instead, but I need a porter box and RT was still working in a chroot... As I only see issues in some archs [12:10] you are still waiting for access to a porter box? [12:20] seb128: I've the access, but not the right chroot to test it [12:20] ah [12:36] didrocks, the app indicator is not always displayed, is it known? [12:37] didrocks: mozjs52 is stuck in artful-proposed because I enabled mandatory build tests which fail on s390x so s390x doesn't build [12:37] didrocks, I mean I've 2 apps in this indicator and sometimes it's there, sometimes not [12:37] we know that s390x doesn't work any way, how do you want to handle this? [12:37] do I need to specific architectures in debian/control? [12:38] jibel, you should ask Trevinho and not didrocks [12:38] he's the one looking after the appindicators integration [12:38] stop bouncing all issues to Didier please [12:41] sorry [12:41] Trevinho, then ^ [12:43] jibel: what are the apps? [12:44] seb128: is there an LP bug for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/786978 ? [12:44] Gnome bug 786978 in plugins "The plugins notifications are displayed untranslated" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [12:44] jbicha, I don't think so, I noticed it myself and worked directly upstream [12:45] Trevinho, synology cloud client and hp systray [12:46] jibel: are they both qt apps, right? [12:48] Trevinho, hp is a qt app, I don't think synology is [12:49] Trevinho, cloud client is a gtk app [12:51] Trevinho, are there any log I could check? [12:51] i'm not getting any indicators either, i should have hexchat there [12:51] there is nothing in the journal regarding this extension [12:53] Trevinho, does it require indicator-application? [12:53] i don't have that installed [12:53] but i do have indicator-messages running [12:53] kenvandine: nope... the extension should do that [12:53] cool [12:54] I'm now working in fractional stuff, but I'll be back to that in next days,, [12:54] ok [12:56] damn, gnome-software is using all 4 cores :/ [13:08] bah, the GNOME updates screwed suspend [13:09] gnome-tweak-tool-lid-inhibtor stopped working it seems [13:09] and the g-s extension to display a suspend button still lists it but it doesn't work [13:10] jbicha, shouldn't that gnome-builder update require a ffe? [13:11] it's unseeded universe so um I thought it didn't need a FFe [13:11] feature freeze applies to the whole archive [13:12] jbicha, if binaries are removed for s390x from artful-release; britney will stop considering a missing build as a regression and the package will become a valid candidate [13:12] it was late because it split out 3 libraries which had to go through the Ubuntu or Debian new queues [13:13] doesn't matter much why it's late, it's still a feature update after ffe :-) [13:13] I'm +1 for the update btw, was looking at versions over lunch and I though it would be good to update [13:13] the libraries were in the NEW queue weeks ago (before Feature Freeze) [13:14] the bad part about the new version is that I disabled terminal because trying to hack it to work with our vte2.91 seemed too much [13:14] so I'll file a FFe if I get that working then I guess [13:15] jibel: you can check which extensions are enabled with alt + f2, "lg", then 3rd tab to ensure you have the extension on [13:16] jibel: you can as well "show error logs" [13:18] didrocks, thanks it's loaded and no error [13:18] Trevinho, bug 1714504 [13:18] bug 1714504 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu) "App indicator is not always displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714504 [13:18] jibel: ok, for Trevinho thus! [13:18] :) [13:19] i guess the app indicator doesn't actually show stuff from the messaging indicator right? [13:19] which i think the legacy tray must have been doing [13:19] yeah, it's only "appindicators" AFAIK [13:19] didrocks: please remove mozjs52/s390x from artful-release per xnox's comment [13:19] kenvandine, hey Ken, how are you? [13:19] that explains why hexchat isn't showing up there [13:19] seb128, hey, good and you? [13:19] kenvandine, I'm good thanks [13:20] kenvandine, did we have new GNOME snaps that got published in the store this week? (for the desktop weekly news) [13:20] jbicha: sorry, didn't see xnox's commenting on this right now? or do you mind, the old comment a week or so ago? [13:20] seb128, gnome-system-monitor [13:20] didrocks: his comment about 8 minutes ago here [13:20] kenvandine, did you get the autoconnect assertion done? [13:20] seb128, i also have branches for all the snaps that add the wayland interface, ready for snap 2.28 release [13:20] seb128, it has 2 votes [13:20] jbicha: did you check rdepends? [13:21] but i don't think it's added yet [13:21] seb128, i've also tested all the snaps, they work with wayland [13:21] with a few tweaks :) [13:21] all in my branches [13:21] great [13:22] i also cleaned up plugs, like some of them had home and network when they didn't really need them [13:22] didrocks: yes the only rdepends is gjs which already had its s390x binaries removed [13:22] jbicha: Could not find binaries for 'mozjs52/None' in artful . Exiting. [13:22] abnd indeed, there is none [13:22] didrocks, i have an eog snap which has thumbnailer issues. I think it's failing to query the mime type [13:23] didrocks, have you seen any snap using desktop helpers that we know successfully queries the mime cache? [13:23] kenvandine: no, I don't think this was ever tested [13:23] ok [13:24] i think i've found a bug, need to keep digging [13:24] it calls a function _can_thumbnail which requires a mimetype arg [13:24] libmozjs-52-0 libmozjs52-dev libmozjs52-0-dbgsym libmozjs52-dev-dbgsym [13:24] which is NULL [13:29] anyone interested in trying out the libreoffice snap, there's an update to 5.4.1 in the edge channel [13:29] I'm not issuing a wider call for testing yet, as I have a few known issues to iron out first [13:29] but it's already fairly usable it seems [13:30] except on wayland where it crashes at startup, that is [13:30] oSoMoN, oh, good, I can include that in the weekly news :-) [13:30]