[04:17] <RAOF> What's the shiny new way to get gpg-agent handling ssh-agent duties and disabling gnome-keyring's ssh-agent?
[04:34] <jbicha> RAOF: the second part, disabling gnome-keyring's ssh handling should be as simple as unchecking it in gnome-sesion-properties
[04:35] <jbicha> but it looks like gnome-session-properties doesn't know how to handle our "ubuntu:GNOME" session, it sees OnlyShowIn-GNOME … etc and doesn't show since it's not exactly GNOME
[04:36] <jbicha> gnome-session-properties is unique to Ubuntu; upstream dropped it years ago
[05:26] <jibel> morning
[05:32] <didrocks> good morning
[05:38] <jibel> salut didrocks
[05:38] <didrocks> bon week-end jibel ?
[05:38] <jibel> didrocks, ça a été et toi?
[05:39] <didrocks> oui oui, très bien :)
[06:20] <duflu> Good morning Europe
[06:20] <duflu> Welcome to Eurovision
[06:20] <duflu> I mean, Monday
[06:21] <didrocks> hey duflu
[06:21] <duflu> Hey didrocks... that font issue is very hard to see. But I made a screenshot in the end
[06:23] <duflu> Oh!
[06:23] <duflu> didrocks, run 'weston-info' and it reports 'subpixel_orientation: unknown', which is the same problem we had in Mir
[06:23] <duflu> Hence it will default to greyscale
[06:25] <duflu> The 'unknown' is coming from libdrm, which is coming from the kernel
[06:25] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:25] <duflu> Hi seb128
[06:25] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good w.e?
[06:26] <duflu> Yeah going OK. Weekend was too short to keep up with life in general. You?
[06:27] <didrocks> duflu: with the new theme (coming today), you will see it way more easily
[06:27] <duflu> Cool
[06:28] <duflu> I think
[06:28] <duflu> didrocks, does weston-info report unknown for you too?
[06:28] <duflu> seb128, Yeah going OK. Weekend was too short to keep up with life in general. You?
[06:28] <seb128> w.e was good, nice weather, managed to catch up on sleep and relax
[06:28] <duflu> Perfect
[06:32] <didrocks> duflu: indeed, it does
[06:32] <didrocks> but only for my external monitor
[06:32] <didrocks> which doesn't display the panel
[06:32] <duflu> didrocks, yeah I suspect the font rendering code is identical between X and Wayland. Only the parameters (known subpixel order etc) are different
[06:32] <didrocks> the one displaying the panel has:
[06:32] <didrocks>         subpixel_orientation: horizontal rgb, output_transform: normal,
[06:33] <duflu> didrocks, same - I have external monitors only here
[06:37] <duflu> I suspect either Xorg guesses HRGB, or the Xorg drivers are more capable at retrieving the subpixel order (from EDID?), or the Xorg drivers also just guess
[06:38] <duflu> Guessing HRGB would usually be correct
[06:43] <flexiondotorg> Morning duflu didrocks seb128
[06:45] <duflu> Hi flexiondotorg
[06:47] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg
[07:52] <Tribaal> hi all! Looks like I lost my gnome session login capability this morning (libmutter segfaults, AFAICT). Is that a known issue? How can I help?
[07:53] <Tribaal> dmesg has https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25463848/
[07:56] <Tribaal> and syslog doesn't help much more (https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25463865/). I'm on 17.10, up-to-date as of this morning
[07:57] <didrocks> Tribaal: yeah, known issue, it's fixed in mutter master. jbicha will either do an update with .92 or a snapshot IIRC
[07:57] <Tribaal> didrocks: ok, thanks a lot. Then I guess I'll work on i3 this morning :p
[08:03] <Laney> ahoy
[08:04] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:04] <didrocks> how was your week-end?
[08:08] <Laney> hey didrocks!!!!
[08:08] <Laney> it was most enjoyable
[08:09] <Laney> went swimming in the river on saturday, and then yesterday an architecture tour by bike followed by climbing
[08:09] <Laney> you?
[08:13] <didrocks> sounds nice! We just went from some walks, which were nice :)
[08:22] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:22] <seb128> didrocks, Tribaal, jbicha did that snapshot this w.e but if you get a new segfault today maybe it's a regression in the snapshot?
[08:22] <seb128> Tribaal, what version of the lib do you have?
[08:24] <Tribaal> seb128: 3.25.91+20170902~ce515c5-1ubuntu1 (https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25463935/)
[08:24] <seb128> so yeah it's the snapshot
[08:25] <seb128> Tribaal, would be useful to report the bug using apport if you have a report in /var/crash
[08:26] <pitti> bonjour tout le monde ! /me retourne au travail après 3 semaines de vacances :)
[08:27] <seb128> salut pitti, comment ça va ? tu as passé de bonnes vacances ?
[08:29] <pitti> seb128: oui, merci, c'était très bien !
[08:29] <Tribaal> seb128: no report in /var/crash :/
[08:30]  * Tribaal tries to re-login
[08:30] <didrocks> seb128: are you sure it was a snapshot? I skimmed over the changelog quickly and didn't find a ref to it
[08:30] <didrocks> but didn't check the git hash
[08:30] <didrocks> hey pitti! Sounds like your trip was really nice :)
[08:31] <pitti> didrocks: indeed it was; we've seen a loooot, it was quite intense; I'm glad I wrote a diary and sorted/tagged the photos right away every day :)
[08:32] <seb128> didrocks, changelog has "  * New upstream git snapshot (LP: #1714330)"
[08:33] <Tribaal> seb128: yeah, nothing in /var/crash
[08:33] <seb128> weird
[08:33] <didrocks> seb128: ah, I was expecting to see an explicit line about it :)
[08:33] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, doesn't seems something you want to tackle post-holidays :)
[08:34] <seb128> didrocks, it's one, but it's not in the top changelog entry since he did the snapshot to debian and then remerged/uploaded to ubuntu on top
[08:35] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:35] <Laney> what's up
[08:35] <seb128> it's monday!
[08:35] <seb128> grey monday after a sunny w.e
[08:36] <Laney> you should be a poet
[08:36] <seb128> :p
[08:37] <seb128> pitti, I just looked at your photos, seems like a fun trip you had :-)
[09:08] <seb128> Trevinho, hey
[09:16] <seb128> suspend on lid close is so annoying
[09:16] <seb128> and hexchat reconnecting after resume is as well
[09:20] <seb128> Laney, you might know that, what helper script do we use for missing codecs install? (or what binary is needed for that to work)
[09:22] <Laney> gstreamer-codec-install (gstreamer1.0-packagekit)
[09:23] <seb128> Laney, thanks, the reporter from bug #1711067 seems to have it missing
[09:23] <Laney> that should be seeded
[09:23] <Laney> maybe I forgot to do it
[09:24] <seb128> it's not in the manifest
[09:24] <Laney> ok, let me add it
[09:24] <seb128> thanks
[09:24] <Laney> it'll need promoting please
[09:24] <seb128> sure
[09:25] <seb128> Laney, promoted
[09:25] <duflu> seb128, BTW totem/gstreamer's container support is poor even when it is installed. I strongly recommend native mpv instead, or native ffmpeg players like mplayer, vlc etc
[09:25] <Laney> thanks!
[09:26] <seb128> duflu, what do you mean "container"?
[09:26] <duflu> seb128, those file extensions
[09:26] <seb128> gstreamer should handle those no?
[09:26] <duflu> seb128, should yes, but it's very buggy
[09:26] <seb128> :-/
[09:26] <duflu> best to use ffmpeg-based apps instead
[09:27] <seb128> well we can't default to ffmpeg bases player for codec/patent reasons
[09:27] <duflu> I know
[09:27] <duflu> I know so well :/
[09:27] <seb128> so it's still worth trying to make the totem experience as good as we can
[09:27] <seb128> but yeah thanks for pointing out that other players do a better job :-)
[09:27] <duflu> seb128, yeah I am. But wonder how many more weeks I should devote to totem
[09:28] <seb128> what else would you work on if you stopped focussing on totem?
[09:29] <duflu> seb128, medium term I would look into libinput
[09:30] <seb128> duflu, what totem issues do you work on atm? the clutter refreshing the UI elements when it shouldn't?
[09:30] <duflu> seb128, yeah just that at the moment, but other apps like gnome-apps benefit from the same fixes. I'll write it up in the report tomorrow
[09:30] <duflu> like gnome-maps
[09:31] <seb128> yeah, I saw that
[09:31] <seb128> well anyway feel free to move to improve libinput if you think it would be more beneficial overall
[09:31] <seb128> totem seems to be in a good enough shape after all the work you put this cycle
[09:31] <duflu> seb128, interestingly it seems clutter-gtk is better at embeded GL than the GTK GL widget
[09:32] <seb128> they are fixing things for gtk4
[09:33] <duflu> Newer isn't always better. The issue I'm working on now is actually a regression introduced in 2009
[09:33] <duflu> Just nobody noticed for a while
[09:33] <seb128> right, I saw the bug comments
[09:34] <seb128> we did stay away from clutter in Ubuntu default install for a while
[09:34] <duflu> seb128, anyway, I hope to come up with multiple apps improved and new knowledge to fix more apps/shell in future
[09:34] <seb128> but yeah, shame that nobody noticed at the time it was added
[09:34] <duflu> The learning is valuable
[09:34] <seb128> that's the right spirit :-)
[09:38] <duflu> seb128, in _theory_ totem could get the same file support as ffmpeg if we omitted all software plugins other than gstreamer-libav. That should replace them all with ffmpeg
[09:38] <seb128> right
[09:39] <seb128> andyrock, hey, I think bug #1714489 is for you
[09:40] <Laney> is it intentional that you can't disable the default-enabled extensions?
[09:40] <duflu> seb128, if Marco comes on later, or someone else, it's worth noting there's still a lingering regression from the Gnome 3.25 update: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1714295
[09:40] <andyrock> seb128: I'll take a look
[09:41] <seb128> andyrock, thanks
[09:41] <seb128> duflu, jbicha knows about the issue I think
[09:41] <duflu> Cool. But of course he does
[09:44] <andyrock> seb128: sorry about that. I actually read somewhere in the gettext docs that this was allowed
[09:44] <andyrock> maybe it's allowed on the python-side but not on lp
[09:45] <seb128> could be
[09:52] <andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-manager/fix-1714489/+merge/330150
[09:53] <seb128> andyrock, it might be worth reporting a bug against launchpad still
[09:54] <andyrock> let me check if update-notifier presents the same problem
[09:55] <andyrock> mmm nope
[09:56] <andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-notifier/ngettext-livepatch/+merge/329982
[09:56] <andyrock> seb128: I'm wondering if this one is going to create the same problem
[09:57] <andyrock> better ask #ubuntu-translators
[10:00] <seb128> andyrock, or #launchpad
[10:00] <duflu> seb128, I missed that part of history - what was wrong with clutter in the past?
[10:00] <duflu> Just performance?
[10:01] <seb128> yeah, it was buggy and not performant for a long time
[10:01] <duflu> Well, I'm not seeing proof that's totally resolved but will get to the bottom of it :)
[10:02] <seb128> thanks
[10:02] <seb128> andyrock, in that case you don't have a number though so the syntax seems to make sense to me
[10:03] <duflu> Interesting they use frame clocks similar to my final work on Mir
[10:04] <andyrock> seb128: mmm not sure lp/gettext is smart enough to parse the string and realize if there is a number or not
[10:09] <seb128> andyrock, well ngettext should have singular/plural strings
[10:10] <seb128> "
[10:10] <seb128> It is also possible to use this function when the strings don’t contain a cardinal number:
[10:10] <seb128> puts (ngettext ("Delete the selected file?",
[10:10] <seb128>                 "Delete the selected files?",
[10:10] <seb128>                 n));
[10:10] <seb128> In this case the number n is only used to choose the plural form. "
[10:10] <seb128> but yeah unsure if you can use the argument for only one of the two variants
[10:11] <andyrock> before merging the suggested fix let me experiment a little bit
[10:14] <andyrock> seb128:  also becuase the fix is wrong
[10:16] <seb128> ah?
[10:24] <seb128> hum
[10:25] <seb128> did that maintenance on the mailing lists made @-desktop get the moderation emails sent to the list?
[10:25] <duflu> OK, dinner time. If someone could push bug 1709166 along that would be great :)
[10:26] <seb128> duflu, enjoy
[10:26] <seb128> I'm going to try to have a look to that one
[10:27] <seb128> I was sort of hopping somebody else would do some sponsoring but that doesn't seem to happen atm
[10:40] <jbicha> good morning
[10:52] <amano> jbicha, filed the gnome-games ffe as requested. And did some bubblewrap crusading.
[10:52] <k_alam> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1714876
[10:52] <jbicha> the Release Team isn't the blocker for bubblewrap, it's the Security Team
[10:53] <jbicha> but as of today gnome-desktop doesn't work with bublewrap, see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/785963 ( I haven't tried the suggested patch there yet )
[10:57] <jbicha> seb128: I think this diff isn't worth keeping any more: https://patches.ubuntu.com/libg/libgnome/libgnome_2.32.1-5ubuntu1.patch
[10:58] <amano> (always heartwarming to read hadess' subtle comments on bug trackers)
[10:59] <seb128> jbicha, or looking at it the other way it's not important enough that it needs to be changed, that delta can stay there in state
[11:01] <jbicha> it's less work to sync than to merge and it's unclear to me that the Ubuntu diff is even right or that we even care that much about libgnome now
[11:02] <seb128> it's even less work to not sync, merge or change it since it's deprecated and doesn't need any work :-)
[11:03] <seb128> you should better focus on trying to resolve those gnome-shell 3.25 update issues that spend efforts on past libs...
[11:03] <seb128> but anyway, if you want to sync it and keep an eye for potential fallout that's fine with me
[11:11] <jbicha> seb128: it ftbfs
[11:12] <jbicha> I did the mutter git snapshot as requested although it might need libgudev to be hinted through artful-proposed to fix the bug
[11:12] <seb128> thanks for that
[11:13] <seb128> need to drop offline for a bit for testing and lunch, bbl
[11:13] <jbicha> s390x is holding up artful migrations
[11:13] <seb128> :-/
[11:13] <Laney> not any more
[11:13] <seb128> #debian-gnome backlog suggests the update still has issues
[11:13] <seb128> as does the log from here earlier
[11:14] <seb128> Tribaal couldn't log in
[11:14] <seb128> brb
[11:14] <Tribaal> Yeah, libmutter segfaults here
[11:15] <Tribaal> (and no /var/crash entry unfortunately)
[11:27] <Trevinho> seb128: hey seb... Sorry I had to leave my car to the repair shop. And it took more than expected 😑
[11:28] <Trevinho> Other than that they will not fix it soon...
[12:43] <jbicha> I've delayed adding e-d-s's installed-tests to its autopkgtest because it's flaky but it doesn't seem too bad in Debian so let's see
[12:43] <jbicha> https://ci.debian.net/packages/e/evolution-data-server/unstable/amd64/
[13:05] <amano> jbicha, hadess just commited a thumbnailing fix to gnome-desktop upstream
[13:06] <seb128> amano, that doesn't change the fact that the new component needs security review/mir which is not likely to be this cycle
[13:07] <amano> :/
[13:10] <jbicha> amano: don't be too sad, we still have new libseccomp hardening. (But those commits don't fix the Debian/Ubuntu bubblewrap issue)
[13:30] <andyrock> seb128: I asked on #launchpad
[13:30] <andyrock> they said that that the change with update-notifier should work
[13:31] <andyrock> if there will be the same problems with the translations
[13:31] <andyrock> it's launchpad fault
[13:32] <seb128> andyrock, if it's launchpad fault do they plan to fix it?
[13:35] <andyrock> cjwatson seb128 I think so, otherwise I'll just change it to "1 livepa...
[13:35] <seb128> k
[13:35] <andyrock> should I go with "1..."
[13:35] <andyrock> ?
[13:36] <seb128> what is 1? what you currently have?
[13:37] <andyrock> A Livepatch update
[13:37] <andyrock> in other places we have "1 livepatch update"
[13:37] <seb128> sorry I don't follow
[13:38] <seb128> 1 is A?
[13:38] <seb128> can you pastebin what you suggest using?
[13:38] <seb128> that's probably easier :-)
[13:38] <andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rqjxEK3e/
[13:43] <andyrock> seb128: ^^^
[13:43] <seb128> andyrock, right, that one should work for sure
[13:43] <andyrock> kk I'll update the branch right now
[13:43] <seb128> thanks
[13:50] <andyrock> seb128: I've been also working on dash-to-dock notification badges  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wMWPc5Vo/badge_small.png https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WfSztWrQ/badge_normal.png https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/IDabQktv/badge_big.png
[13:51] <seb128> andyrock, nice! is that just visuals or is that connected to some backend already?
[13:51] <andyrock> it's in css the graphic so should be themable (colors, shape, etc.)
[13:51] <andyrock> i'm wokring on the backend
[13:52] <seb128> great
[13:52] <andyrock> using UnityAPI Launcher
[13:52] <seb128> is that what Trevinho recommended?
[13:52] <andyrock> seems like it became "the standard"
[13:52] <andyrock> it's what we were using
[13:52] <seb128> I don't remember now, he said there was a launcher one which was not unity specific?
[13:52] <seb128> great
[13:52] <andyrock> plank is using the same
[13:52] <seb128> just a name change iirc right?
[13:53] <andyrock> we can keep the name
[13:53] <andyrock> if we don't want to update all the application using
[13:53] <andyrock> or we can support multiple names
[13:53] <andyrock> I would suggest to at least support the old name
[14:00] <andyrock> looks like plasma supports the API too
[14:00] <andyrock> cairo-dock
[14:00] <andyrock> etc.
[14:00] <seb128> great
[14:10] <apw> didrocks, hey ... it is right that the pre-enabled ubuntu-dock/indicator extensions do not appear as enabled in gnome-tweak, and cannot be switched off ?
[14:14] <amano> I think that's the intended behaviour. Just apt purge them
[14:15] <andyrock> it looks buggy
[14:16] <andyrock> I guess it's gnome-tweaks-tool that fails to deal with them
[14:18] <jbicha> yes, GNOME Tweaks can't handle GNOME Shell mode extensions but we think that may be more of a GNOME Shell bug
[14:19] <jbicha> also, I don't think GNOME Shell supports disabling mode-enabled extensions
[14:27] <tjaalton> hum, after upgrade gdm runs X and logins fail
[14:28] <seb128> tjaalton, what gdm version do you have?
[14:28] <jbicha> tjaalton: when was the last time you had restarted after upgrade? is this your first time with gnome-shell 3.25.91?
[14:28] <tjaalton> 3.25.90.1-0u2
[14:28] <tjaalton> been a while, maybe a week or more
[14:29] <jbicha> does the systemd journal give you interesting errors?
[14:30] <tjaalton> not that I can see
[14:33] <tjaalton> ah, nevermind
[14:38] <tjaalton> nope, it's still failing for my user, gnome-shell segfaults
[14:38] <tjaalton> gdm is fine now
[14:45] <jbicha> can you chck the journal again?
[14:46] <jbicha> for instance I had https://bugzilla.gnome.org/786660 but apparently it's rare since I haven't heard any one else mention it
[14:52] <tjaalton> segfault in libmutter
[14:55] <tjaalton> _cogl_onscreen_free assertion fail
[14:58] <tjaalton> huh, and now it works
[14:58] <tjaalton> after a reboot'
[14:58] <tjaalton> go figure
[15:08] <jbicha> seb128: could you look over LP: #1714821 ?
[15:08] <seb128> I saw it earlier
[15:08] <seb128> what sort of input do you want?
[15:09] <seb128> I'm unsure if we wanted it for bluetooth only
[15:09] <seb128> iirc it does local webdav sharing and that can be enabled from the default install (it prompts to install the packages needed ondemand)?
[15:09] <jbicha> it only has 1 feature left: webdav but historically we didn't install the apache binaries for that feature to even work
[15:09] <seb128> but we had the ui there
[15:10] <seb128> and clicking the box would prompt to install the needed packages
[15:10] <jbicha> nobody ever added support for it to install those packages on demand
[15:10] <seb128> unsure how useful that is though
[15:10] <seb128> ah
[15:10] <seb128> so it was indicated as a label?
[15:10] <jbicha> anyway, gnome-user-share doesn't provide a gui any more any way, the gui is now in gnome-control-center
[15:10] <seb128> I think I remember the dialog told you what was needed
[15:10] <seb128> k
[15:11] <seb128> and is the gcc gui hidden if the backend is missing?
[15:11] <seb128> in any case it seems like we should sync the new g-u-s and makes g-c-c install that package when somebody tries to enable the feature
[15:11] <seb128> so I think syncing is fine
[15:12] <seb128> if the release team ack the ffe
[15:12] <jbicha> gcc hides the gui if gnome-user-share isn't installed; it's not smart enough yet to know that it still needs those missing dependencies
[15:13] <jbicha> by default, the Sharing panel will be pretty empty, just "Computer Name" and "Screen Sharing" (and screen sharing won't work with wayland!)
[15:15] <jbicha> if you install openssh-server, you'll get a Remote Login option; if you install gnome-user-share, you get File Sharing, and I think rygel adds Media Sharing
[15:16] <seb128> we can look at doing better there next cycle
[15:16] <seb128> but it's pretty minor so nothing to worry about for now imho
[15:17] <jbicha> yeah it's not a problem, we have reasons for not installing all of that by default
[16:31] <seb128> jibel, those statements conflict no?
[16:31] <seb128> "I mean, if, after boot, I select wayland, then on next logins, the wayland session always starts whether I select X or Wayland."
[16:31] <seb128> and
[16:31] <seb128> "1. Boot your system
[16:31] <seb128> 2. Select Xorg
[16:31] <seb128>   -> Xorg session starts
[16:31] <seb128> 3. Logout and select Wayland
[16:31] <seb128>   -> Wayland session starts"
[16:31] <seb128>  
[16:32] <seb128> jibel, in the 3 steps description your next login is different from your first one
[16:32] <seb128> (the bug description states that it's the same when reversing xorg/wayland order, for those reading only IRC)