[08:23] <necrophcodr> Is it possible to pass dpkg options to aptitude, like you can apt-get?
[09:18] <soahccc> I'm not very good with kernel related stuff and I had never a problem with it but now is the time I'm afraid. Would there be anything wrong with running 16.04 on a 3.11 driver? I dist-upgraded this server and it can't network anymore and I get ACPI errors in log so I have to assume it's the kernel right?
[09:38] <cpaelzer> soahccc: it is not what is supported/tested so you might run into a random amount of new errors
[09:38] <cpaelzer> soahccc: I'd try the newer kernels if they fixed whatever you are facing as an issue
[09:38] <cpaelzer> soahccc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[09:39] <soahccc> cpaelzer: Well it was a 12.04 system and I just did a do-release-upgrade (to I assume 14.04? iirc it doesn't go straight to 16.04) and it wont "come up". I started rescue system and the only thing I could find were some ACPI warnings and that NTP can't find a host
[09:40] <cpaelzer> soahccc: ah I thought you are on 16.04 given your question of a 3.11 kernel on it
[09:41] <cpaelzer> the ntp message likely just means no network which matches your former statement
[09:41] <cpaelzer> I usually don't give too much on ACPI warnings
[09:41] <cpaelzer> what is your network setup - I rareley had a case where newer kernels dropped support of HW that worked before
[09:41] <cpaelzer> unless that was a USB network with dkms drivers not building or something like ti
[09:41] <soahccc> The thing is I do have 2 identical servers (same hardware) and one is still working on 12.04. I upgraded a few servers (with different hardware) no issues. And those servers actually had a lot of services running on them. My problematic server is a file server and only has nginx and SSH
[09:42] <cpaelzer> soahccc: what you have to find out is why network is not initializing correctly on it
[09:42] <cpaelzer> soahccc: compare the dmesg / syslog on good and bad server in regard to networking
[09:43] <cpaelzer> soahccc: there must be something your upgraded server fails on in regard to networking right?
[09:43] <soahccc> What do you mean exactly by network setup? it's a dedicated server and I haven't done a thing to what the hoster originally configured in /etc/network/interfaces
[09:43] <soahccc> And yes I guess it's networking. I can't reach it via SSH or ping but cron seems to be doing something according to syslog
[09:44] <cpaelzer> soahccc: I meant what type of network card it is, how it was set up before, ....
[09:44] <cpaelzer> soahccc: and in the log I meant that this card somehow has to fail to be brought up correctly
[09:44] <cpaelzer> soahccc: maybe it just changed names
[09:44] <cpaelzer> and the old config doesn't apply anymore
[09:44] <cpaelzer> you'd find that to soem extend by comparing the boot messages
[09:44] <cpaelzer> e.g. as what device it was initialized
[09:46] <soahccc> at least it's the same exact card in both of them: Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 09)
[09:58] <soahccc> cpaelzer: I compared dmesg of the two servers + dmesg of the rescue system and it seems as that the new kernel seemingly doesn't find the card https://gist.github.com/2called-chaos/c86f0c7eaa4a8cbf2521430b9c656dc0
[10:01] <soahccc> I remember there to be issues with r8169 back in the days (and you should use official r8168) but the new one seems to work fine on the rescue system... Oh those realtek cards
[10:07] <soahccc> Okay for some reason, and I assume it was related to those drive issues, r8169 is blacklisted in modprobe blacklist and it's the only one available... Well i guess this problem is fixed :D
[10:07] <soahccc> cpaelzer: thanks anyways :)
[10:50] <hehehe> hey hey
[10:51] <hehehe> have u seen that PIA lifetime subscription is on sale
[10:51] <hehehe> for 49 something
[10:51] <hehehe> but hmm
[10:51] <hehehe> is it truly lifetime?
[10:51] <hehehe> cause its sooo cheap
[12:28] <necrophcodr> Is it possible to pass dpkg options to aptitude, like you can apt-get?
[12:51] <RoyK> necrophcodr: I don't think aptitude is very well supported on newer versions debian/ubuntu
[12:52] <RoyK> things are moving towards apt
[12:52] <RoyK> dunno if that suports dpkg opts, though
[13:04] <necrophcodr> RoyK, I'm aware, but aptitude has more strict dependency handling which I prefer.
[13:14] <hehehe> hi folks
[13:14] <hehehe> for some reason I cant ssh to the box
[13:14] <hehehe> I logged in via kvm, nothing in syslog
[13:15] <hehehe> maybe it something to do with fail2ban jailing sshd?
[13:15] <hehehe> hi _KaszpiR_  :P
[13:45] <hehehe> messup ips
[13:45] <hehehe> in fact works
[13:47] <hhee> good day. how do you usually monitor .conf files changing over time?
[13:48] <hehehe> you could use auditd
[13:48] <hehehe> to monitor changes in files
[13:51] <hhee> hehehe, how can i see previous version of files?
[13:51] <hhee> in etc e.g.
[13:52] <hhee> etckeeper probably
[13:53] <hehehe> i am looking into it
[13:55] <hehehe> i dont know
[13:55] <hehehe> want to eat so maybe will check later
[13:56] <hehehe> auditd does log who accessed file
[13:56] <hehehe> but to log nature of changes to the file
[13:56] <hehehe> maybe sarnold  knows?
[13:56] <hehehe> :)
[13:56] <hehehe> its rather handy feature
[15:43] <madLyfe> nacc: its tuesday!
[15:43] <nacc> madLyfe: heya
[15:45] <madLyfe> your brain ready for a beating? :P
[15:46] <nacc> madLyfe: yeah
[15:50] <madLyfe> how should we start? state the problem first?
[15:50] <nacc> madLyfe: yeah, from the beginning
[15:54] <madLyfe> i have two usb ethernet adapters that are not being recognized by the ubuntu server installer during the network devices check. if i complete the install w/o setting up a network interface and reboot, i can go into the network interfaces file and manually add the adapter. it shows up in the lsusb list. i dont remember if i had to modprobe it first though.
[15:55] <madLyfe> what that means is the modules are there for the thing to work but for some reason there is a disconnect during the installer. i would to remedy that.
[15:55] <nacc> ok, stop there
[15:55] <nacc> when you say you have two usb ethernet adapters, do you mean you have two different ones? or you have two of the same, and neither work, or?
[15:56] <nacc> not knowing if you needed to modprobe something or not is sort of a dealbreaker :) can we figure that out?
[15:58] <madLyfe> i have two different branded usb ethernet adapters. the name of the adapter is different under ubuntu desktop connection details but they seem to show they are using the same r8152, or whatever that was, module.
[15:58] <madLyfe> does the modprobe matter? if i had to do the modprobe it was after the install anyways.
[16:00] <nacc> madLyfe: well, if you had to do it or not, does matter
[16:00] <nacc> madLyfe: to be clear, editign /e/n/i does not make your device recognized, something else does
[16:00] <nacc> madLyfe: and, iirc, you cannot modprobe r8152 in the installer, correct?
[16:01] <madLyfe> ya i think thats correct.
[16:23] <madLyfe> should i try to modprobe the installer again or after install again?
[16:24] <nacc> madLyfe: i would do both, so we know clearly what works and doesn't
[16:25] <nacc> there is to much "seem" in the above to solve the problem
[16:26] <madLyfe> well im installing to a usb drive on my laptop. im showing two ethernet controllers and those are the built in wifi and the onboard lan.
[16:26] <madLyfe> not the connected usb ethernet adapter.
[16:27] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Vd2MF8Ry/irccloudcapture870703048.jpg
[16:27] <nacc> rbasak: powersj: do you have time to do a HO to discuss the testing idea we had? (integration testpoint)
[16:27] <powersj> sure
[16:27] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, that's the server installer?
[16:27] <madLyfe> yep
[16:28] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, and if you go back and drop to a shell, are youa ble to load the module?
[16:29] <madLyfe> her is what this config looks like btw. in case you needed a clearer picture https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ULPHYmqD/irccloudcapture1151996363.jpg
[16:29] <rbasak> nacc, powersj: yes
[16:29] <nacc> rbasak: thanks
[16:30] <nacc> madLyfe: wasn't it a server box before? so you this on your laptop as well?
[16:30] <madLyfe> so 'modprobe r8152'?
[16:31] <nacc> madLyfe: whatever the module was called, yeah
[16:31] <madLyfe> im just testing the installer so i didnt think it matters. just trying to get the installer to recognize the adapter shown in the picture
[16:31] <nacc> madLyfe: sure, just trying to understand
[16:31] <nacc> madLyfe: the more you chnage from what i remember/what you say, the harder it is for me to help :)
[16:32] <madLyfe> yes, this is all for the server.
[16:32] <madLyfe> ya, sorry.
[16:32] <nacc> madLyfe: it's cool
[16:32] <nacc> rbasak: powersj: shall we use the standup?
[16:32] <powersj> sure be right there
[16:33] <madLyfe> i believe this is what we did. actually i have all those pictures saved: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mRQaFwPe/irccloudcapture474510748.jpg
[16:33] <nacc> madLyfe: right, so before and after you modprobe, can you do the `ip link` and show me hte difference, if any?
[16:34] <madLyfe> ya we couldnt get it working from the installer: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HSKOFuXK/irccloudcapture756594906.jpg
[16:35] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/aX5fRVTs/irccloudcapture1437707674.jpg
[17:01] <nacc> powersj: LP: #1714539 created
[17:02] <powersj> nacc: thank you!
[17:02] <nacc> nope, not thate one :)
[17:02] <powersj> lol
[17:02] <nacc> powersj: LP: #1715195
[17:02] <powersj> there we go :)
[17:02] <nacc> powersj: and trello card
[17:06] <docmur> Hey guys, I asked this in the linux channel also
[17:06] <docmur> Hey guys, I bought some new external IP's for my server, I added them to /etc/network/interface and I restarted the interface, here is my ip addr list ( editted ): https://pastebin.com/zfPSBCm3 including the ip r list, now that I can see them shouldn't I be able to ping and ssh to those addresses?
[17:16] <Ussat> So, asterik on Ubuntu...tell me its not all compile source
[17:17] <madLyfe> nacc: i didnt notice anything for the ip link. though, im not sure what im looking for.
[17:17] <madLyfe> modprobe for that module was fatal though
[17:28] <nacc> !info asterisk | Ussat
[17:28] <nacc> Ussat: that?
[17:28] <Ussat> Yes, thanks
[17:29] <nacc> madLyfe: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mRQaFwPe/irccloudcapture474510748.jpg so what env was this?
[17:29] <Ussat> perfect
[17:29] <Ussat> nacc, do I need to modify anything to get that or just apt-get install it ?
[17:30] <madLyfe> that was after a completed server install on the actual server hardware, with usb ethernet adapter.
[17:31] <nacc> Ussat: you need universe installed
[17:31] <nacc> *enabled
[17:31] <nacc> Ussat: then just apt install
[17:32] <nacc> madLyfe: right, so afaict, my conclusion before was still correct ( the one i think you were disputing at EOW). The stock Ubuntu server iso image does not contain the module you need for your USB network adapter in the installer initrd.
[17:32] <nacc> madLyfe: so your solution to fix that is to either use desktop & remove a bunch of packages so that it's server at the end.
[17:33] <nacc> madLyfe: or remaster the server installer ISO
[17:33] <madLyfe> how is it not there if after install i can modprobe it and manually add it to the network interface file?
[17:33] <nacc> *after install* is not the installer environment.
[17:34] <nacc> i'm not sure why that's not clear?
[17:34] <nacc> rbasak: powersj: tests/bin/jenkins-integration-test?
[17:34] <madLyfe> but the module has to be there in the iso for it to then be there after the install completes?
[17:34] <nacc> madLyfe: no.
[17:35] <nacc> madLyfe: or, at least, not necessarily
[17:35] <madLyfe> what kind of sorcery is that?
[17:35] <powersj> nacc: that or a tools dir if you have a collection of stuff that does random things :)
[17:35] <nacc> madLyfe: what do you think you mean by "in the iso"?
[17:35] <powersj> and you could even leave out the jenkins part if you can run it locally
[17:35] <nacc> madLyfe: when I say that, I mean in /lib/modules/ in the installer environment.
[17:36] <Ussat> OK, thanks
[17:36] <madLyfe> i have no idea, i obv dont understand something.
[17:37] <madLyfe> is the needed module just not in the correct location on the iso to be used or soemthing?
[17:37] <madLyfe> something*
[17:37] <nacc> madLyfe: on the iso, is the -extra .deb available? (not avialable to install, but present on the iso)
[17:37] <madLyfe> it has to be there for it to be there after the installer completes. it can just appear out of thin air w/o internet.
[17:37] <nacc> madLyfe: it can be in a package and not present in the installer environment.
[17:38] <nacc> madLyfe: again, be *clear* about what you mean about "be there"
[17:38] <nacc> madLyfe: I'm saying it's not an available module in th einstaller environmnet.
[17:39] <madLyfe> so i just need to get that module to the installer environment for it to use it during install
[17:40] <nacc> madLyfe: *if* that is possible.
[17:40] <nacc> madLyfe: it's also possible for the installer kernel and the to-be-installed kernel to not be the same (I think)
[17:41] <nacc> madLyfe: form the installer, run something like `find / -name 'linux.*extra.*.deb'`
[17:42] <madLyfe> just returned a new line
[17:43] <nacc> madLyfe: so not found
[17:43] <Ussat> nacc, thanks
[17:43] <nacc> madLyfe: do you have an *installed* server image around?
[17:43] <nacc> Ussat: yw
[17:43] <Ussat> That pulls in all the deps etc I assume ?
[17:44] <madLyfe> not currently
[17:44] <nacc> Ussat: yes.
[17:44] <madLyfe> i can run this installer, w/o the adapter(obv), and use that?
[17:44] <Ussat> Making a local (as in on my work system) POC , assuming that goes OK will put it on the esxi cluster in a VM there
[17:45] <nacc> madLyfe: to be sure, 'find / -name 'linux-image-extra.*'`
[17:47] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6XdEjfg8/irccloudcapture1090446043.jpg
[17:47] <nacc> rbasak: powersj: something like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25473445/
[17:48] <nacc> madLyfe: you have a trailing `
[17:48] <nacc> madLyfe: so it is waiting for you to complete the input
[17:49] <madLyfe> just enter again?
[17:49] <nacc> madLyfe: ctrl+C and don't put the ` in
[17:49] <madLyfe> oh
[17:49] <powersj> nacc: that works, only need to add checks for exit codes on failure so Jenkins knows to pass or fail.
[17:50] <madLyfe> ctrl+c isnt doing its job
[17:51] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/plRLSak1/irccloudcapture52227506.jpg
[17:52] <nacc> powersj: if i `set -e` it, that should be sufficient, right?
[17:52] <powersj> nacc: yes
[17:52] <nacc> madLyfe: right, becuase you are *still* in the subshell
[17:52] <nacc> madLyfe: so `<enter>
[17:52] <nacc> it will probably complain
[17:53] <nacc> powersj: thanks
[17:53] <madLyfe> nah it got me to regular command entry. did the last string you posted and it just returned a new line as well
[17:56] <nacc> madLyfe: `ls -ahl /pool/main/l/linux/linux-image*.deb`
[17:57] <nacc> madLyfe: and/or (sorry typo'd above) `find / -name linux-image-extra*`
[17:58] <madLyfe> so not this? ls -ahl /pool/main/l/linux/linux-image*.deb
[17:59] <nacc> madLyfe: either of them
[17:59] <nacc> (hence and/or)
[17:59] <nacc> madLyfe: they give us the same info, i expect
[18:00] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/fUo00FU0/irccloudcapture488449475.jpg
[18:01] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, so do a `dpkg -i /cdrom/pool/main/l/linux/linux-image-extra/4.4.0-87-generic_4.4.0-87.110_amd64.deb; modprobe r8152`
[18:01] <nacc> the dpkg *may* fail, i'm not sure, it depends on the deps
[18:05] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6D9pqmo3/irccloudcapture1293490634.jpg
[18:05] <madLyfe> no idea why it was cutting off text like that
[18:09] <nacc> madLyfe: i forget how to install packages in the installer, you might have to let the installer go a bit further so the env is more setup than where you're at
[18:10] <nacc> powersj: --^ do you recall? this is a .deb that's present on the iso, but not part of the installer env itself
[18:11] <powersj> nacc: trying to add a package to the installer it self or in the target?
[18:11] <nacc> powersj: installer itself
[18:11] <nacc> powersj: in this case, the installer (to use network) needs the -extra package installed so that it can use a specific kernel module in it
[18:14] <powersj> ah, I haven't had to do that before, but busybox doesn't come with much
[18:14] <nacc> yeah
[18:15] <nacc> i think dpkg will 'become' available once the installer env is setup (that hapens right after network)
[18:16] <madLyfe> so this is recognizing the two network interfaces on the laptop, i need to select one to continue?
[18:18] <nacc> madLyfe: yeah, we want to stop after the step after that
[18:19] <madLyfe> k, i dont have a cable plugged into the lan port, but it was trying to find the link they configuring the dhcp.
[18:19] <nacc> right, you can let it just fail to configure networking like you do when you try to use the usb adpater on your server?
[18:19] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WY1HuboW/irccloudcapture1631082337.jpg
[18:20] <nacc> madLyfe: do not configure
[18:20] <madLyfe> k
[18:20] <nacc> madLyfe: and then whenever you can at the next point, stop the installer, and go back to the shell
[18:20] <madLyfe> now its asking for hostname
[18:20] <madLyfe> k
[18:20] <nacc> madLyfe: put whatever for th ehostname
[18:20] <nacc> madLyfe: like i said, we're not going to install yet
[18:20] <nacc> madLyfe: but we want it to setup the installer env
[18:21] <madLyfe> ok at the shell
[18:21] <nacc> madLyfe: `which dpkg`
[18:21] <madLyfe> which: not found
[18:22] <nacc> madLyfe: bah `ls -ahl /usr/bin/dpkg`
[18:22] <madLyfe>  /ush/bin/dpkg: not such file or dir
[18:23] <nacc> madLyfe: was that a typo? (ush)
[18:23] <nacc> madLyfe: hopefully you just undersatnd what i'm trying to do
[18:23] <nacc> madLyfe: is dpkg avialable/
[18:23] <nacc> madLyfe: if it is, we cna try to install the package like before
[18:24] <nacc> madLyfe: if not, go to the next step in the installer and try again
[18:24] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/uIyLCWJm/irccloudcapture946100515.jpg
[18:25] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, so follow what i just said
[18:26] <madLyfe> i just went through the user setup, timezone, and am not at the partitioner. will go back to shell now
[18:27] <madLyfe> still no such file or dir
[18:28] <nacc> madLyfe: can you just run 'dpkg'?
[18:29] <madLyfe> dpkg: not found
[18:29] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, keep going then
[18:32] <madLyfe> partitioning disk and its installing the system now
[18:33] <nacc> madLyfe: ok, i think you can hit cancel (if poss.) and drop to the shell, maybe
[18:33] <madLyfe> lol what is the cancel button?
[18:33] <nacc> madLyfe: i'm wondering now if possibly dpkg is never available in the installer, but in the to-be-installed system (e.g., /target or whatever)
[18:36] <madLyfe> its not letting me alt-f back to get to shell anymore
[18:36] <madLyfe> just continues on with the install if i press that
[18:40] <madLyfe> its at the grub installer right now
[18:57] <madLyfe> so we are kinda back to square 1, nacc?
[18:57] <nacc> madLyfe: i think the simples solution is to just remaster the iso
[18:58] <nacc> madLyfe: basically, modify the initrd on the usb
[19:04] <madLyfe> is that difficult?
[19:05] <nacc> madLyfe: not especially, afaict.
[19:06] <nacc> madLyfe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Initramfs
[19:06] <nacc> i think that's roughly correct
[19:06] <nacc> madLyfe: basically, tkae your existing usb, cp the initrd used by the installer to /tmp
[19:06] <nacc> extract it
[19:06] <nacc> add the one driver you need to the extracted initrd
[19:06] <nacc> recompress it
[19:07] <nacc> and put that initrd on your usb
[19:12] <madLyfe> probably start from ubuntu desktop?
[19:12] <nacc> madLyfe: hrm?
[19:12] <nacc> madLyfe: you need to be on linux to do the above, yes
[19:12] <nacc> madLyfe: it shouldn't matter if you are on desktop or server
[19:12] <madLyfe> ya, just booted up the live usb
[19:29] <madLyfe> downloading the server iso to a clean usb stick from ubuntu desktop, nacc
[19:29] <nacc> madLyfe: wait
[19:29] <nacc> madLyfe: well, i guess that's fine, ok
[19:31] <madLyfe> so i have a usb with the iso on it, a usb with bootable installer on it. can use either.
[19:32] <madLyfe> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WkJArBvq/irccloudcapture235993422.jpg
[19:34] <nacc> you want to use the UBUNTU-SERV one
[19:34] <nacc> madLyfe: so you're going to use the above instructions, using boot/<appropriate initrd>
[19:36] <madLyfe> oh so i didnt really need to download it again since i already have a bootable usb?
[19:38] <nacc> madLyfe: right
[19:42] <madLyfe> ok extracted initrd.gz
[19:42] <madLyfe> but just gave me initrd
[19:43] <madLyfe> extract that as well?
[19:44] <nacc> madLyfe: did you read the wiki page above?
[19:45] <nacc> madLyfe: it's not just a straight gunzip
[19:45] <nacc> madLyfe: you have to use cpio
[19:46] <madLyfe> ya I looked at it but it's pretty foreign stuff to me.. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/20x8LTH0/irccloudcapture1938095891.jpg
[19:53] <nacc> madLyfe: specifically, do this all from the terminal and read the directions starting at 'cd `mktemp -d`...
[19:54] <nacc> madLyfe: honestly, there's quite a bit to learn here
[19:54] <nacc> madLyfe: i've spent about as much time as i can today on it
[19:54] <nacc> madLyfe: i'm sure you can google around and find clear instructions on how to add a module to the initrd
[19:54] <madLyfe> np ty for your help nacc
[20:06] <Ussat> so does anyone know if this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/asterisk/+bug/1458323 is fixed in 17.04 ?
[20:06] <Ussat> I know there is a work around,  but might move thos to 17.04 if its fixed
[20:51] <Ussat> Welp, 17.04 does not have that bug \o/
[21:18] <nacc> Ussat: can you update the bug with that info?
[22:25] <nacc> cpaelzer: while not disallowed, it's weird to see upload tags in your repository (ntp)
[23:08] <Epx998> how to copy a file to a bunch of windows servers hmmm
[23:22] <powersj> nacc: does this look right? Anything special I have to do? `uvt-simplestreams-libvirt sync release=artful arch=amd64`
[23:22] <powersj> xenial works as expected
[23:25] <rharper> powersj: you need to use ~=(rel1|rel2|rel2)
[23:25] <rharper> otherwise, when you sync, it will remove any release that doesn't match your sync criteria ;
[23:26] <rharper> I assume that's what you're looking for (was non-obvious to me a while back as well)
[23:26] <rharper> this is what I use for syncing daily images: uvt-simplestreams-libvirt --verbose sync --source http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/daily "release~(xenial|trusty|zesty|artful)" arch=amd64
[23:27] <rharper> powersj: I think artful might only be in the daily (since it's not yet released)
[23:27] <nacc> yeah, sync literally syncs local to remote, exactly
[23:27] <nacc> as opposed to one-way, which i suppose is to prune dead releases
[23:27] <powersj> rharper: ah interesting! thanks
[23:27] <nacc> and yeah, yhou have to use daily for artful
[23:28] <nacc> it would be nice if uvt wrapped this for us
[23:28] <rharper> nacc: I agree; it's just a passthrough to simplestreams
[23:28] <nacc> rharper: yep
[23:28] <rharper> that said, the uvt wrapper can suggest/warn
[23:28] <rharper> hence the cli rework we've discussed in the past