| jibel | morning | 05:01 |
|---|---|---|
| duflu | Morning jibel | 05:53 |
| duflu | and afternoon | 05:53 |
| duflu | + afternoon jamesh | 05:54 |
| duflu | + morning seb128 | 05:54 |
| jamesh | hi jibel, duflu | 05:54 |
| duflu | et al | 05:55 |
| jibel | hi duflu jamesh and everyone | 05:56 |
| oSoMoN | good morning desktoppers! | 06:10 |
| duflu | Morning oSoMoN | 06:15 |
| oSoMoN | hey duflu | 06:15 |
| didrocks | hey duflu | 06:18 |
| didrocks | welcome back oSoMoN, comment étaient tes vacances ? | 06:18 |
| duflu | Hi didrocks | 06:18 |
| oSoMoN | salut didrocks! très bonnes vacances, je suis paré pour la rentrée :) | 06:22 |
| seb128 | good morning desktopers | 06:46 |
| oSoMoN | good morning seb128 | 06:47 |
| seb128 | lut oSoMoN, wb! bonnes vacances de ce que j'ai lu :-) | 06:48 |
| oSoMoN | oui, excellentes, ça fait du bien! | 06:49 |
| didrocks | re seb128 | 06:49 |
| willcooke | morning | 07:52 |
| duflu | Morning willcooke | 07:53 |
| duflu | All caught up? | 07:53 |
| willcooke | Yeah! | 07:53 |
| willcooke | Doing my ESTA now | 07:53 |
| duflu | Fun fun | 07:53 |
| willcooke | They actually ask for your social media details | 07:53 |
| willcooke | (albeit optional) | 07:53 |
| duflu | willcooke, yeah. BTW I noticed mine was approved but the email never arrived. Had to check the web site | 07:54 |
| willcooke | duflu, good tip, thanks | 07:54 |
| duflu | Strange. It wasn't in spam, or anywhere | 07:54 |
| didrocks | hey willcooke | 07:55 |
| willcooke | morning didrocks | 07:56 |
| seb128 | hey willcooke | 07:58 |
| willcooke | mornng seb128 | 08:00 |
| Laney | yeahhhhhhhhhhh boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii | 08:02 |
| seb128 | hey Laney | 08:04 |
| Laney | hey seb128 | 08:05 |
| Laney | bon weekend? | 08:05 |
| didrocks | hey hey Laney | 08:05 |
| Laney | salut didrocks | 08:06 |
| Laney | how goes? | 08:06 |
| didrocks | good good! Nice to have bearable temperatures for a couple of weeks now :) | 08:07 |
| seb128 | Laney, très bon, et toi ? | 08:07 |
| didrocks | and you? | 08:07 |
| Laney | yeah it was GREAT! | 08:14 |
| Laney | wine tasting at a party, hopefully got some good results | 08:14 |
| Laney | then we helped dig up a tree and accidentally cut through the phone cable | 08:15 |
| Laney | and yesterday climbing/coffee shop/pub | 08:15 |
| didrocks | why waiting for results? I thought you have a lot of different kind of wines but only on French | 08:15 |
| didrocks | so, easy pick :) | 08:15 |
| didrocks | oh? not friday yet? | 08:15 |
| didrocks | argh, phone cable isn't fixed yet I guess? | 08:15 |
| Laney | ohohoh | 08:16 |
| Laney | actually I didn't know which the french one was any more | 08:16 |
| Laney | the test was blind | 08:16 |
| Laney | maybe it did win! | 08:16 |
| didrocks | doesn't change, you would obviously recognize it :p | 08:17 |
| didrocks | (hem, is it a little bit too much for a monday morning? ;)) | 08:17 |
| Laney | :> | 08:17 |
| Laney | there was one that a lot of people didn't like ... | 08:17 |
| didrocks | how many were you to choose this wine? | 08:18 |
| Laney | 20 or so | 08:18 |
| didrocks | waow | 08:20 |
| Laney | it was after people had already had cocktails and beer though | 08:22 |
| Laney | not a very scientific test :P | 08:22 |
| didrocks | ahah | 08:22 |
| Laney | no palate cleansers either | 08:22 |
| didrocks | well, it is scientific… | 08:23 |
| didrocks | the same will happen at the wedding :) | 08:23 |
| duflu | Hmm. Anyone familiar with building GTK? AFAICT an artful system requires the Mir backend be enabled, but that also requires content-hub packages that no longer exist in artful | 08:23 |
| didrocks | so same conditions | 08:23 |
| duflu | ^ alan_g | 08:23 |
| colinl | duflu: I managed to build it last week when working on my patch | 08:23 |
| duflu | colinl, yeah I know it's possible to build but you will get random occasional crashes if the mir symbols are missing | 08:24 |
| duflu | It works long enough for some testing | 08:24 |
| colinl | oh, OK | 08:24 |
| alan_g | duflu: that shouldn't be the case. AIUI the content-hub rdeps were dealt with. | 08:24 |
| duflu | Hmm | 08:24 |
| alan_g | But I didn't touch GTK myself. | 08:25 |
| Laney | hey duflu | 08:25 |
| Laney | how are you building it? | 08:25 |
| duflu | Laney, awkwardly | 08:25 |
| duflu | From git | 08:25 |
| Laney | there's this awesome debian/patches/no_content_hub patch in ubuntu :/ | 08:26 |
| duflu | Ah | 08:26 |
| duflu | Ta Laney | 08:26 |
| duflu | alan_g, yeah the problem is the references to content_hub in upstream git | 08:28 |
| duflu | Laney, sounds like that patch can be proposed to upstream now? | 08:29 |
| alan_g | Makes sense | 08:29 |
| Laney | maybe, probably ask kenvandine when he's around | 08:29 |
| * didrocks reboots for some testing | 08:30 | |
| Laney | does it break copy and paste or something to not have content-hub? | 08:30 |
| alan_g | Laney: only when running on Mir | 08:30 |
| duflu | Laney, more obscure - I have to build without Mir support to work around it which then eventually/randomly crashes on the first reference to a mir symbol (even when not using mir) | 08:30 |
| Laney | alan_g: yeah :P | 08:30 |
| Laney | it just seems weird to commit patches to break stuff | 08:31 |
| duflu | Sad maybe, but not weird to remove code that depends on something that no longer exists | 08:33 |
| alan_g | It does. But how else do you drop things that are no longer relevant? | 08:33 |
| seb128 | duflu, alan_g, Ken re-enabled the mir backend for this cycle but reverted the content-hub code | 08:33 |
| duflu | Fair enough. It all makes sense. Just the usual upstream != ubuntu | 08:34 |
| seb128 | yeah, we should commit those upstream | 08:34 |
| seb128 | or just get the mir backend deleted upstream | 08:34 |
| * Laney shrugs | 08:34 | |
| Laney | if the backend only exists now to please Ubuntu then we should carry it in Ubuntu | 08:35 |
| Laney | in other words - if we delete things upstream because we deleted them in Ubuntu then it's not really an upstream backend is it | 08:35 |
| seb128 | duflu, alan_g, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.22.15-0ubuntu2 | 08:35 |
| seb128 | Laney, ? | 08:35 |
| seb128 | we distro patch sometime to easy work | 08:36 |
| duflu | Yeah sounds reasonable | 08:36 |
| duflu | I just needed educating | 08:36 |
| Laney | the conversation is about deleting content-hub related code in upstream git | 08:36 |
| Laney | because it was removed in Ubuntu | 08:36 |
| seb128 | that's just one option | 08:37 |
| seb128 | upstream can continue building with content-hub also | 08:37 |
| seb128 | that project still exists even if it's not in artful Ubuntu | 08:37 |
| Laney | yes, that's what I'm talking about | 08:38 |
| seb128 | building with content-hub? | 08:38 |
| Laney | how it's not clear that this patch should be committed upstream | 08:39 |
| seb128 | well that patch is an hack | 08:39 |
| seb128 | whatever is commited upstream requires for upstream to decide on a direction | 08:39 |
| seb128 | not do workarounds based on Ubuntu availability | 08:39 |
| seb128 | imho | 08:39 |
| didrocks | hum, another package not updated in vcs | 08:40 |
| Laney | I think we're in violent agreement? | 08:40 |
| ricotz | oSoMoN, hi, please don't forget to push your libreoffice changelog change | 08:40 |
| didrocks | ok, retesting, bbiab | 08:44 |
| oSoMoN | ricotz, hey, done | 08:47 |
| willcooke | hey oSoMoN wb! Good hols | 08:47 |
| willcooke | ? | 08:47 |
| oSoMoN | hey willcooke! yeah, great time off! | 08:48 |
| ricotz | oSoMoN, thx | 08:49 |
| seb128 | Laney, I think we are in agreement yes, I just don't think your "if the backend only exists now to please Ubuntu then we should carry it in Ubuntu" is true, it's quite the opposite, we have no interest to maintain it in Ubuntu but the Mir team still showed interested and maybe they want to keep having it upstream | 08:49 |
| seb128 | Laney, or the statement is true but the backend is not to please Ubuntu | 08:49 |
| Laney | seb128: ok, I'll explain what I meant by that, but it's not to start an argument | 08:50 |
| Laney | at that point I thought that people were trying to argue for committing the no_content_hub patch upstraem | 08:51 |
| Laney | so I was saying that if we just commit it then we're saying that content-hub not being available in Ubuntu is good enough reason to break copy and past in the upstream Mir backend | 08:51 |
| Laney | in which case the Mir backend really would exist only for Ubuntu's benefit, and if we just do whatever we want to it because of Ubuntu's requirements then maybe it would be better to have it as a distro patch | 08:52 |
| seb128 | right | 08:52 |
| seb128 | I understand what you mean | 08:52 |
| seb128 | it's just the way you worded it made it sound like we were not working upstream | 08:53 |
| Laney | nah, it would have been working upstream but not in the nicest way :P | 08:53 |
| seb128 | it sounded a bit like the usual "Ubuntu doesn't work upstream as usual" | 08:54 |
| seb128 | which would be unfair to say | 08:54 |
| seb128 | but yeah, I agree with you | 08:54 |
| seb128 | either that backend needs to be properly maintained or deprecated | 08:54 |
| Laney | like you'd want to do --without-content-hub or something to do it properly | 08:54 |
| Laney | but I think we probably should just carry this patch and at some point deprecate -> remove the backend | 08:54 |
| Laney | assuming nobody upstream wants to maintain it | 08:55 |
| willcooke | ESTA approved - that was pretty quick | 08:57 |
| willcooke | duflu, also no email though | 08:57 |
| duflu | Yeah I waited a week or two before getting curious | 08:58 |
| oSoMoN | didn't get an e-mail either, had to check back | 08:58 |
| jibel | ouch control-center crashed when I paired a new device :/ | 09:00 |
| Laney | hey willcooke | 09:01 |
| oSoMoN | is it a known bug that the poweroff button in the menu doesn't do work any longer? | 09:04 |
| seb128 | new g-c-c has quite some segfault | 09:04 |
| seb128 | oSoMoN, do you have an extension like the suspend button one? | 09:04 |
| oSoMoN | seb128, indeed | 09:09 |
| oSoMoN | I didn't remember I had installed it | 09:09 |
| seb128 | I had the issue with it | 09:09 |
| oSoMoN | uninstalling the extension did the trick | 09:10 |
| oSoMoN | interestingly, displaying the poweroff dialog made vlc quit/crash | 09:10 |
| oSoMoN | no crash file | 09:11 |
| oSoMoN | looks like vlc exits properly when the dialog is displayed | 09:12 |
| oSoMoN | [0000001d1f13d6a8] core playlist: stopping playback | 09:12 |
| oSoMoN | QObject::~QObject: Timers cannot be stopped from another thread | 09:12 |
| jibel | i've this problem where gnome-software uses 100% cpu. Any information I could collect while it is in this state? | 09:12 |
| Laney | jibel: install debug symbols, attach to it with gdb, get a backtrace with all threads (t a a bt) | 09:13 |
| Laney | also, hi! | 09:13 |
| Laney | (also, back in a minute) | 09:13 |
| didrocks | urgh, I forgot to take a coffee this morning | 09:14 |
| didrocks | was heading down testing this patch + add another one | 09:14 |
| didrocks | let's fix that | 09:14 |
| jibel | Laney, Hi, okay | 09:14 |
| didrocks | jibel: current iso doesn't boot or it just me? | 09:28 |
| didrocks | (nor live session or ubiquity-dm for me) | 09:28 |
| didrocks | (I mean the /pending from today, trying /current now) | 09:30 |
| jibel | didrocks, I didn't check the results this morning, let me check | 09:36 |
| didrocks | hum, /current is stuck at boot as well, it could be boxes/kvm/qemu as well… | 09:37 |
| jibel | didrocks, current work and yesterdays' image too | 09:38 |
| jibel | works* | 09:38 |
| jibel | didrocks, the image hangs on boot with qxl | 09:38 |
| didrocks | jibel: oh, new regression, or known? I didn't get any issue but installed my vm a long time ago… | 09:39 |
| jibel | didrocks, known | 09:39 |
| didrocks | let me try chaning session, I'm currently under wayland | 09:39 |
| didrocks | thx jibel for confirming :) | 09:42 |
| jibel | didrocks, it boots fine | 09:43 |
| jibel | didrocks, VMs don't work very well under wayland. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Wayland_problems#Not_all_keys_can_be_sent_to_a_remote_desktop_or_a_virtual_machine | 09:46 |
| jibel | for me it's a showstopper, I cannot type anything especially with a french kb layout | 09:46 |
| didrocks | jibel: yeah, I tried on Xorg just in case, same issue, so probably the QXL thing you told | 09:46 |
| jibel | didrocks, the boot issue is bug 1711358 | 09:47 |
| ubot5` | bug 1711358 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "20170817 - ISO hangs on boot on qemu with splash screen enabled and qxl graphics driver" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711358 | 09:47 |
| * didrocks opens | 09:47 | |
| jibel | Laney, not very useful output http://paste.ubuntu.com/25513564/ | 09:51 |
| Laney | weird | 09:52 |
| Laney | it found the symbols? | 09:52 |
| jibel | apparently not and I get this warning warning: Could not load vsyscall page because no executable was specified | 09:53 |
| Laney | I would run it like $ gdb -p $(pidof gnome-software) /usr/bin/gnome-software | 09:54 |
| jibel | ah | 09:56 |
| jibel | /usr/bin/gnome-software (deleted) | 09:56 |
| jibel | s maybe g-s behaves like this because its been upgraded under its own feet | 09:56 |
| jibel | Laney, no difference if I specify the executable. And the running process does not match the executable on disk | 10:00 |
| Laney | it was upgraded? | 10:01 |
| Laney | never tried to get debug symbols in such a situation | 10:01 |
| Laney | maybe you can get the matching dbgsym packages and get gdb to use them somehow ... | 10:01 |
| Laney | there's some code in gnome-software that's meant to prompt you to restart in this situation, it's not meant to misbehave | 10:02 |
| jibel | Laney, apparently so. the process was running since sept. 6th same day than last upgrade of g-s | 10:02 |
| jibel | g-s was not running any ui, just the bakground process was running. And it started running crazy after reloading its list of packages this morning | 10:03 |
| jibel | i'll downgrade and re-upgrade to see if I can reproduce | 10:04 |
| didrocks | FYI, current gnome-session postinst (in release pocket) fails until GNOME Shell migrates (currently autopkgtest running in proposed). I just added a || true for now in gnome-session to have it not failed until the migration. I'll then later on remove this and add a versioned dep. | 10:47 |
| didrocks | (next upload is staged in bzr, so don't push a new gnome-session until the current one migrates from proposed to the release pocket) | 10:52 |
| popey | huh, just filed bug 1716377 which is probably what didrocks is talking about | 11:35 |
| ubot5` | bug 1716377 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css doesn't exist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1716377 | 11:35 |
| seb128 | popey, looks like it, it should already be fixed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.25.90-0ubuntu4 | 11:39 |
| ubot5` | Ubuntu bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] | 11:40 |
| popey | ok | 12:20 |
| jdstrand | seb128: hi! | 12:47 |
| jdstrand | seb128: after apt-get upgrading (after not doing it for a while) I noticed the hplip-gui's icon is in the upper right instead of a drawer in the lower left (that's cool), but the icon is teensy. what package would I file a bug against for this? | 12:49 |
| seb128 | jdstrand, hey | 12:50 |
| seb128 | jdstrand, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+filebug | 12:51 |
| jdstrand | seb128: thanks | 12:54 |
| seb128 | jdstrand, yw | 12:56 |
| jdstrand | seb128: fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+bug/1716392 | 13:07 |
| ubot5` | Ubuntu bug 1716392 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu) "icon for hplip-gui and dropbox are very small" [Undecided,New] | 13:07 |
| jackpot51 | jdstrand: is your screen HiDPI? | 13:11 |
| jdstrand | jackpot51: it is | 13:23 |
| jdstrand | I should mention that | 13:23 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, i guess we shouldn't be uploading snaps to the store with wayland or desktop interfaces yet right? | 13:24 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: you can, snapd will just ignore them | 13:25 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: ignore the missing interfaces | 13:25 |
| kenvandine | they were automatically rejected | 13:25 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: it will install the snaps themselves fine | 13:25 |
| kenvandine | should i request manual review? | 13:25 |
| kenvandine | yeah, that's what i was thinking | 13:25 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: yes. I can make sure the review tools are updated for the new interfaces (I thought I already did that...) | 13:25 |
| kenvandine | thx | 13:26 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, done, thanks! | 13:26 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: ok, for now just ping me. I remember I did fix the review tools but didn't request a store sync yet cause there were other unrelated changes I wanted to make | 13:28 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: I ran the review tools again and think you have to re-request a manual review | 13:37 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, done | 13:39 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: ok, approved | 13:40 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, i guess i requested the review of the latest upload, which was i386 | 13:42 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, what's the easiest way to get the amd64 upload approved? upload a rebuild? | 13:42 |
| kenvandine | or can i just request a manual review on the older revision? | 13:42 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: request a manual review again | 13:43 |
| jdstrand | yeah, on the older revision | 13:43 |
| kenvandine | jdstrand, done, sorry about that :) | 13:44 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: yuo needed a snap decl for the dbus name. what I normally do is grant that and re-run the tools to make sure I got it right, but because of the unknown interfaces, it went back to you | 13:44 |
| kenvandine | i'm going to need to ask for auto-connect for gnome-logs to logs-observe | 13:45 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: done | 13:46 |
| kenvandine | thx again | 13:46 |
| jdstrand | kenvandine: yes, please ask in the forum | 13:46 |
| kenvandine | will do | 13:46 |
| didrocks | jackpot51: hey, FYI, I may add the distro logo to GDM as fedora did (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/gdm/blob/master/f/org.gnome.login-screen.gschema.override) via an override. I don't know if you are taking our ubuntu-settings package or not, but if you do, you would either replace the distro logo or ship your own override. | 13:47 |
| didrocks | (still have to figure out the correct size and match for it) | 13:48 |
| jackpot51 | Thanks didrocks, we are already setting that gsetting in pop-default-settings | 14:39 |
| jackpot51 | We don't install ubuntu-settings, although I wilp be keeping track of those settings for good defaults. These are our gsetting overrides: https://github.com/system76/pop-default-settings/blob/master/debian/pop-default-settings.gsettings-override | 14:43 |
| * kenvandine should really update hexchat-indicator to use app indicator instead of the messaging indicator | 15:43 | |
| seb128 | to do what? display an indicator when you have msgs? | 15:44 |
| kenvandine | i really miss the indicator | 15:44 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 15:44 |
| seb128 | I miss having a decent IRC client | 15:44 |
| seb128 | the hexchat UI is crap :-/ | 15:45 |
| * kenvandine hugs hexchat :) | 15:45 | |
| seb128 | it doesn't work for me | 15:45 |
| kenvandine | yeah... but it's the best i've found | 15:45 |
| seb128 | compared to xchat-gnome where it was easy to see which channels have ping/activity | 15:45 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 15:45 |
| kenvandine | i loved xchat-gnome | 15:45 |
| kenvandine | i just can't live without the indicator | 15:47 |
| kenvandine | it's killing me! | 15:47 |
| ahayzen | Hi, not sure if this has been noticed in the fit & finish styling fixes for 17.10. In Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 with dash to dock visible, when an app is maximised (eg Firefox) the title does not centre with the clock. http://imgur.com/a/5cJ47 Does this also occur in Ubuntu 17.10 or has it been fixed? If not would it be possible when maximised for the title be aligned to the monitor centre? (and should I report a bug somewhere?) | 15:55 |
| xnox | ahayzen, depends which of the two behaviours are considered buggy =) | 15:57 |
| xnox | :-P | 15:58 |
| ahayzen | the title not being centred when maximised :-) | 15:59 |
| ahayzen | as in monitor centred | 15:59 |
| ahayzen | but guess there could be an argument that it should be window centred as it could look funny with certain content | 15:59 |
| didrocks | ahayzen: please report a bug. I'm unsure we can fix this easily TBH, (as it's the dock pushing it more right) | 16:01 |
| didrocks | ofc, in intellihide, no issue :) | 16:01 |
| ahayzen | right, which project should i report it against? :-) | 16:02 |
| didrocks | ahayzen: I think we need to move the date in that case, so, gnome-shell | 16:02 |
| didrocks | (gnome-shell package in launchpad) | 16:02 |
| Laney | that's going to look weird | 16:04 |
| didrocks | yeah, I'm unsure what should be done | 16:04 |
| didrocks | moving the window decorator or app is weird as well | 16:04 |
| didrocks | doesn't seem to have any good answer of the correct behavior | 16:05 |
| Laney | indeed, and not really even possible with apps that draw their own titlebar | 16:05 |
| didrocks | correct | 16:05 |
| ahayzen | i think the biggest problem is older apps that use the title though, most apps that use a gtkheader/draw their own don't have a title | 16:06 |
| Laney | they often put other information there | 16:07 |
| Laney | identifying information for the current 'view' | 16:07 |
| seb128 | let's put the date on the right | 16:09 |
| seb128 | that solves it ;-) | 16:09 |
| ahayzen | i've reported bug 1716432 to track the issue :-) | 16:11 |
| ubot5` | bug 1716432 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "With dash to dock enabled, title in window is not centred aligned to clock when the window is maximised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1716432 | 16:11 |
| * didrocks reboots for a last gdm test and then off | 16:21 | |
| * Laney has the dentist | 16:27 | |
| Laney | back later on | 16:28 |
| seb128 | Laney, good luck | 16:43 |
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| willcooke | night all | 17:46 |
| jackpot51 | didrocks, I modified pop-default-settings so that all the pop-session items should be installable alongside ubuntu-session and ubuntu-settings without overriding those gsettings | 18:27 |
| Laney | survived | 18:48 |
| immu | hi all | 19:00 |
| sil2100 | !dmb-ping | 19:01 |
| ubot5` | bdmurray, BenC, cyphermox, infinity, micahg, rbasak, sil2100: DMB ping. | 19:01 |
| sil2100 | Eh, we need to get c-yphermox and i-nfinity off the list | 19:02 |
| bdmurray | sil2100: only half of that statement is truee | 19:02 |
| sil2100 | Ah, the vote ended? | 19:03 |
| sil2100 | Woohoo, I didn't see the official announcement yet | 19:03 |
| === CrazyMelon is now known as CrazyLemon | ||
| === musalbas- is now known as musalbas | ||
| === dkessel_ is now known as dkessel | ||
| === andyrock_ is now known as andyrock | ||
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