=== BrAsS_mOnKeY is now known as g2 [07:03] tried to make usb boot for 14.04, didn't work. now when i try to move that file from downloads to trash, it says pemission denied. how do i fix this? [09:17] hello any one around [09:17] !ask [09:17] Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience [09:17] hi hateball and thanks [09:17] i'm struggling with a wifi dongle [09:18] lubuntu sees it but i cannot connect to any wifi enable network [09:19] its a TOTOLINK N150UA which has standard RA Link hardware, any help? [09:21] https://askubuntu.com/questions/457061/ralink-mt7601u-148f7601-wi-fi-adapter-installation check about firmware [09:24] funny u should bring that up, that is the exact same guide i followed last night [09:24] the dongle works in windows so its not defective [09:25] oh btw on which version is lbunutu based? ubuntu version? [09:33] i use rt3072 with 10.04 and 14.04. [09:34] check logs [09:35] i created a vm of lubuntu, i noticed at the install it asked for 3rd party installation [09:35] i didnt tick that box, could that be a factor? [10:15] kd: which exact chipset is it? [10:16] kd: and which release/kernel are you using? [10:26] hateball : http://www.totolink.net/sub/product/detail.asp?product_num=100037 [10:27] im using lubuntu 17.04 x86 [10:28] kd: I was thinking more along the lines of "lsusb" [10:28] ok hang [10:31] i can see available wifi networks but cant connect to them , please help me [10:32] s10gopal: what make & model is it? [10:32] s10gopal: your wifi device? [10:32] Bus 001 Device 003: ID 148f:7601 Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapte [10:33] r [10:34] s10gopal: this link was posted before you joined: https://askubuntu.com/questions/457061/ralink-mt7601u-148f7601-wi-fi-adapter-installation [10:34] check that page about firmware [10:34] tried [10:34] not working [10:35] hateball : bus 001 device 003: id 148f:7601 RAlink Technology MT7601U [10:36] kd : you can see availabe networks ? [10:36] s10gopal yup [10:36] same with me , but i cant connect to them\ [10:36] me neither [10:37] it tries to connect but fails [10:37] are you guys using Network-Manager? [10:37] no whats that? [10:37] no [10:37] kd: and when you try connecting, run "dmesg" after and see if there's any interesting info [10:37] nm is the default network manager for Ubuntu [10:38] ok [10:38] i will try it [10:38] if it's a removable USB device you can also unplug and replug it, then run "dmesg" to see if it complains about any missing firmware or so [10:39] it is a dongle [10:39] im using it in a vm now [10:39] to troubleshoot wifi i find it helps to stop network-manager and then configure the device on the command line - errors are logged to /var/log/syslog - so it helps to find why the error occurs - but for instructions to do that you have to google [10:41] ok i will try [10:41] bbl [10:41] done [10:41] i am getting error link is not ready [10:42] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25526863/ [10:43] back [10:44] i can see available wifi networks but cant connect to them , http://paste.ubuntu.com/25526863/ [10:44] s10gopal_: sure, you'll have to configure it on the commandline, using iwconfig and the ip utility [10:45] ok , but how ? i am noob [10:46] iwconfig ens33 no wireless extensions. wlx20e81600ef50 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:off/any Mode:Managed Access Point: Not-Associated Tx-Power=20 dBm Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Power Management:off enp0s29f7u7u3 no wireless extensions. lo no wireless extensions. gopal@gopal-desktop:~$ ip utility Object "utility" is unknown, try "ip help". [10:46] . [10:46] first you configure it, then you bring it up with "ip link set wlan0 up" and you can bring it down with "ip link set wlan0 down" [10:46] ok, not wlan0 but ens33 [10:46] configure mean ? [10:46] how ? [10:48] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WiFiHowTo [10:49] it says "unsupported version" at the top of that page but the content all seems valid [10:49] Using the command Line ? [10:50] yes, if network-manager can't make it work then your only friends are google and the cmd line :) [10:50] s10gopal_: ens33 seems to be your ethernet [10:51] and wlx20e81600ef50 your wifi [10:51] lspci dont show wifi [10:51] of course it wont, as it is USB [10:51] sure because its a usb device [10:51] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25526900/ [10:52] s10gopal_ kd: when buying wifi gear always choose those with an Atheros chipset, your life will be easier [10:52] I personally try to get Intel, but if that's not an option I go for Atheros as well [10:53] Even Broadcom works decently these days [10:53] ralink/mediatek... nothing but pain [10:53] i should follow this Ralink's RT2500 ch or Rakink's RT61 [10:53] can you please remote control my pc and do it ? [10:54] hateball: years of doing wifi meshing in the field taught me 2 things: 1) googles that can see radio waves will be indispensable, 2) always choose Atheros [10:54] *goggles (not googles) [10:55] :D [10:56] hateball: for example I have a top of the range Thinkpad here on my desk but its Intel wifi does not have Master mode, so it can only connect not provide an AP - nothing you'd notice until you need it :) [10:58] not working i tried [10:59] same [10:59] wlx20e81600ef50: link is not ready [ 2065.038836] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlx20e81600ef50: link is not ready [10:59] venzen: Sure, I was talking from purely client pov [11:00] I have an intel 7260 in my desktop and it is excellent [11:00] sudo gksu echo "blacklist hostap" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-orinoco bash: /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-orinoco: Permission denied [11:00] hateball: sure, when they work they're reliable, agreed [11:01] s10gopal_: you cant sudo echo, you'll need to use tee [11:01] also.. sudo gksu is not a thing [11:02] s10gopal_: oh dear, you are very noob. nothing wrong with that but you're in for a world of pain trying to do commandline to solve wifi problems... [11:02] s10gopal_: i suggest buying a different wifi adapter [11:02] cant [11:02] and i need to fix it today else my dad will be angry [11:03] plz remote acess my computer and fix it [11:03] access [11:04] s10gopal_: i'm going to give you a series of commands to type on the commandline, follow them in the exact sequence. If they don't solve your problem then its a driver issue and you'll have to google [11:04] ok [11:04] ok to start: what is the name of your wifi device? type: ip addr show [11:04] or can i install driver ? i have driver in cd buy it says target not set like that [11:05] gopal@gopal-desktop:~$ ip addr show 1: lo: mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000 link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 ::1/128 scope host valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2: ens33: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DOWN group [11:05] your wifi device should start with a "w" [11:06] wlx20e81600ef50: mtu 1500 qdisc mq state DOWN group default qlen 1000 link/ether da:65:bf:4f:8b:fd brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff [11:06] i think its wlx20e81600ef50 as pointed out by hateball earlier [11:06] ok [11:07] sudo ip link set wlx20e81600ef50 down [11:07] done [11:08] sudo apt-get install iw [11:08] already installed [11:09] sudo ip link set wlx20e81600ef50 up [11:09] done [11:09] sudo iwlist wlx20e81600ef50 scan [11:09] does it show anything? [11:10] something http://paste.ubuntu.com/25526968/ [11:11] mine is ESSID:"Home" [11:11] ok, good, please wait a few minutes [11:12] but i can see wifi networks using gui too and it show them tooo [11:14] s10gopal_: sure but sometimes Network-Manager (that drives the GUI) messes up with some cards, that's why we're getting under the hood [11:14] follow this answer: https://askubuntu.com/questions/138472/how-do-i-connect-to-a-wpa-wifi-network-using-the-command-line [11:15] remember that your wifi device is not called wlan0 but wlx20e81600ef50 [11:15] before doing this i should removed saved info using gui ? [11:15] no need, the GUI has been stopped right? [11:15] ? [11:16] s10gopal_: you can run: sudo service network-manager stop [11:16] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Dwext Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant Failed to open config file '/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf', error: No such file or directory Failed to read or parse configuration '/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf'. [11:17] yes, you have to create the conf file with: sudo nano /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf [11:18] put your SSID and password in there like in the linked answer [11:20] how to save and exit nano ? [11:20] i know vi editor only [11:20] s10gopal_: also, copied and pasted and called the device wlan0 - you have to replace wlan0 with wlx20e81600ef50 [11:20] Ctrl+X [11:20] you can use vi instead... [11:21] lso, copied and pasted and called the device wlan0 - you have to replace wlan0 with wlx20e81600ef50 ? [11:21] yes [11:23] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Dwext Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument [11:24] s10gopal_: please pastebin the contents of /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf [11:24] venzen : sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Dwext Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Invalid argument [11:24] s10gopal_: please pastebin the contents of /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf [11:24] network={ ssid="Home" psk="Bsnl@243009" } [11:25] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25527019/ [11:26] that's fine but you should change your password because you posted it in public :) [11:26] ok, the issue might be wext... hold on [11:28] try: [11:28] ? [11:28] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Dnl80211 [11:28] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Dnl80211 Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant [11:28] you see i changed the driver in the last option -D [11:28] wow [11:29] Successfull [11:29] you're pulling my leg [11:30] now get a dhcp address [11:30] sudo dhclient wlx20e81600ef50 [11:30] but it is blinking [11:30] correct [11:30] now ? [11:31] yep [11:31] disconnect mobile and try wifi again ? [11:31] you don't have to disconnect mobile [11:31] what does iwconfig say? [11:32] run: iwconfig [11:32] sudo dhclient wlx20e81600ef50 // still blinking [11:32] wlx20e81600ef50 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:off/any Mode:Managed Frequency:2.462 GHz Access Point: Not-Associated Tx-Power=20 dBm Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Power Management:off [11:32] its not associated [11:32] hmmm [11:33] try: [11:34] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Datmel [11:34] should i close this terminal running dhclient ? [11:35] yes, you can Ctr-C or close it [11:35] sudo wpa_supplicant -B -iwlx20e81600ef50 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -Datmel Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant wlx20e81600ef50: Unsupported driver 'atmel' [11:36] oh dear, well try some of the drivers shown by: wpa_supplicant -h [11:37] wpa_supplicant -h wpa_supplicant v2.4 Copyright (c) 2003-2015, Jouni Malinen and contributors This software may be distributed under the terms of the BSD license. See README for more details. This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the OpenSSL Toolkit (http://www.openssl.org/) usage: wpa_supplicant [-BddhKLqqstuvW] [-P] [-g] \ [-G] \ - [11:37] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25527065/ [11:39] ? [11:39] ok, we've tried them all (nl80211 and wext) and dhclient didn't manage to get an address from your AP, so this is what netowork-manager also failed on [11:39] sorry, it looks like this device is not going to work with Linux [11:40] but it is supported [11:40] what is the name of the USB device (make and model) [11:40] on its cover [11:40] tb 0143s [11:40] venzen: 148f:7601 [11:40] can we do one last thing ? [11:41] I mean like Totolink or whatever [11:41] s10gopal_: and what version of Ubuntu are you running? [11:41] terabyte 802 wifi network adapter [11:41] 17.04? [11:41] 17.04 [11:41] but it also dont work on lubuntu [11:42] who manufactures it? [11:42] chinease [11:42] name of the company? [11:42] terabyte [11:42] terabyte co ltd [11:42] ok wait [11:43] a moment [11:43] s10gopal_: are you on 4.10-33 now? kernel wise [11:43] i think [11:43] this file should be default exist on your system /lib/firmware/mt7601u.bin [11:43] 4.10.0-33-generic [11:43] as well as /lib/modules/4.10.0-33-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u/mt7601u.ko [11:44] and... then things should magically work [11:44] and I suppose they do, since you can actually scan networks [11:45] cd /lib/modules/4.10.0-33-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u/mt7601u.ko bash: cd: /lib/modules/4.10.0-33-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u/mt7601u.ko: Not a director [11:45] i wonder if its not something in the wifi router setup? Like an odd choice of security like WEP or such? [11:46] s10gopal_: you can do ls rather than cd [11:46] Should I use a tiling desktop? If so, which one? [11:47] got output [11:48] plz see this make log when i install drivers http://paste.ubuntu.com/25527116/ [11:48] what is the output? [11:48] i think it can help [11:49] """ls /lib/firmware/mt7601u.bin /lib/firmware/mt7601u.bin "" [11:50] that log shows it never compiled [11:50] but if you have the two files that hateball mentioned you should be fine [11:50] in read me , it say do something [11:50] but i dont know what it says [11:51] pastbin the readme [11:51] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25527125/ [11:52] " gopal@gopal-desktop:~$ ls /lib/modules/4.10.0-33-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u/mt7601u.ko /lib/modules/4.10.0-33-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/mediatek/mt7601u/mt7601u.ko" [11:53] the readme says it only supports kernel 2.4 and 2.6 - that's very old - we're at kernel 4.4 already, so that build package won't work [11:53] s10gopal_: i've gotta go, sorry we couldn't make it work [11:54] in fact we're at 4.10 :p [11:54] in 17.04 [11:54] what should i do ? switch to old ubuntu ? [11:54] No, trade your dongle for another one with atheros chipset [11:54] bye thx for help [11:54] hateball: oh, right... i'm with the old 16.04 swamp fossil still [11:54] !hwe | venzen [11:54] venzen: The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack [11:54] hateball : can't [11:54] :D [11:55] s10gopal_: great, good luck [11:55] s10gopal_: Then there's not much any of us can do [11:55] ubottu: thanks [11:55] You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-) [11:55] hateball : any idea what i can do ? [11:55] ubottu: you're grand! [11:55] s10gopal_: trade your dongle for another one with atheros chipset [11:56] cant , and i am from india [11:56] s10gopal_: Intel will also work [11:56] i dont think these dongle are available , and intel is very costly [11:56] The point is ralink/mediatek have absolutely terrible linux support [11:56] https://askubuntu.com/questions/555957/what-to-do-if-wifi-can-scan-networks-but-cant-connect ? [11:57] you can also look for broadcom, which for the most part works well [11:57] hateball: my experience too [11:57] like today, its 99% there but no cigar [11:58] and on my dongle it works on linux 2.4 or later , even it works on windows 7 [11:59] s10gopal_: some products just don't work - with lots of googling you might find a solution but that's hard work - the best is to exchange that USB device for one that has a different chip [12:00] but all models available in india have same chip [12:01] https://www.flipkart.com/search?q=usb%20wifi&otracker=start&as-show=on&as=off [12:01] tell your dad you spent a lot of time with helpful Linux guys and that they say the particular chipset is problematic in Linux even though the company advertises Linux support on the box [12:02] thx you [12:02] you help me alot [12:03] and also spend your precious time on this problem [12:03] It seems strange if only one exact chipset was allowed for sale in India [12:03] s10gopal_: if you can get an Edimax wifi dongle - that should also have an RTlink chipset but they tend to work out the box [12:05] venzen: dunno about that, first hit on flipkart seems to use RTL8188CUS [12:05] and I am pretty sure I've thrown such a card in the trash [12:05] maybe it had EU on the end, but no matter [12:05] s10gopal_: if its any consolation, I have Lubuntu 16.04 on this top-of-the range thinkpad and Linux doesn't even see the touchpad (mouse) - I have to plug in a USB mouse into a $2K laptop - not because of Linux but because these manufacturers design for Windows [12:07] s10gopal_: While not really the place for it, maybe you could ask in #ubuntu-in if someone knows of a USB dongle that works out of the box [12:08] good idea [12:08] ok [12:08] The other option is ##hardware but then you'd need to find someone that uses both linux and lives in India [12:08] thx [12:08] s10gopal_: could you just run an ethernet cable between your pc and the router - and not use wifi? [12:09] cant [12:09] modam is not near computer [12:10] is the signal ok by the pc? [12:10] ethernet can run up to 100m [12:10] yes [12:11] ok guys i have to go, bitcoin is having a market bowel movement [12:11] bye [12:16] [12:52] s10gopal_ kd: when buying wifi gear always choose those with an Atheros chipset, your life will be easier hi venzen, im back. what brands do you recommend i buy [12:17] That's hard to say really [12:18] TP-Link has Atheros in *some* of their products [12:18] and to make it more funny they can change chipset when they release v2 or v3 or so of a thing [12:18] ah [12:18] So you'll really need make sure what you are getting [12:19] so how do i get my one going? [12:19] else i have to buy a new one it seems >.< [12:19] Well you have the same as s10gopal and well... that's a no-go [12:19] kd https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Category:Wireless_adapter [12:20] or... [12:20] !hcl [12:20] For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection [12:21] hateball what is strange is with my dongle i have linux drives from their site [12:21] yet i cant get it going [12:22] kd: Yes, but they are made to compile against an old kernel [12:22] and you arent supposed to need to, after kernel 4.2 or 4.4 [12:22] yet... the drivers do not work [12:22] I have the same experience with the old realtek, same crap [12:23] dang [12:23] some chipsets drivers even get removed from the kernel for being too poor [12:23] so... that's why it's cheaper (for total sanity) to get atheros or intel [12:23] on what kernel version is lbuntu 17 based on? [12:25] 4.10 [12:28] hateball i found a better list : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported [12:29] it's not very comprehensive [12:30] and also quite outdated [12:33] :/ [12:33] i guess im gonna have to get a pci card [12:33] https://www.rebeltech.co.za/243-wireless [12:34] i'm just readin through s10gopal's dmesg output... his eth device has driver r8169 ... that seems to be the RTlink driver, no? [12:35] Yes [12:35] nothing strange with that, as his wifi chipset is usb [12:35] r8169 actually works well [12:35] ok, sure, but then as his wifi devices connects to his router: [12:36] wlx20e81600ef50: send auth to 1c:5f:2b:4a:fe:8a (try 1/3) [12:37] wlx20e81600ef50: authenticated [12:37] wlx20e81600ef50: aborting authentication with 1c:5f:2b:4a:fe:8a by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING) [12:37] so the drivers seem fine and the device authenticates, but something else goes wrong [12:38] yea, poor firmware goes wrong probably [12:38] i know right [12:38] you can of course try loading the module and disabling things like wifi-n [12:38] yeah [12:38] that's hit and miss [12:39] Like I said, lower total cost of sanity to just get something that works properly :p [12:39] what IRC client would you recommend? i'm using the default Pidgin app right now but it's not highlighting messages with my name [12:40] Surely that is configurable [12:41] kd: i found this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/457061/ralink-mt7601u-148f7601-wi-fi-adapter-installation#554278 [12:41] have you tried that? [12:42] yes [12:42] last night [12:42] and again today [12:42] and the outcome? no change? [12:42] i noticed when i installed lubuntu on vm today at the screen where it asks to download upgrades while downloading [12:43] it asks to download and installed 3rd party drivers [12:43] it did mention wifi [12:43] yeah same outcome [12:43] If you have Lubuntu in a VM... why are you passing through the USB device? [12:43] oh-hooo [12:43] And not just using the hosts network [12:44] hateball because the pc i have lbuntu installed is a p4 desktop at home [12:44] im at work now [12:44] http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi/ take firmware from git [12:44] JohnDoe_71Rus: Are you just posting random links? [12:45] check firmware size and version [12:45] iwlwifi has absolutely nothing to do with mediatek chipsets [12:46] indeed [12:46] some times in distrib not all functional firmware, there link to git [12:47] also i have fibre at home and my p4 has 100mb and is incompatable with router [12:47] router only gigabit lan [12:48] gigabit port perfect work with 100mb card [12:49] not on my pc for some reason [12:49] connects fine with my adsl router that is 100mb native [12:52] hateball 4.10 is that ubuntu 14? [12:52] kd: 4.10 is the kernel used in Ubuntu 17.04 [12:53] ko [12:53] ok [12:53] kd: sometimes auto-negotiating fails for network interfaces, you could try forcing 100mbit [12:54] how do i do it on lbuntu [12:54] i dont see options at editing wired connection 1 [12:55] kd: as you might be aware the ubuntu versions are determined by year and month of release, the kernel version has a different scheme - major number 4 minor number 10 and then a release number after that like 4.10.62 [12:56] kd: you can it using "ip" but I have forgot the syntax [12:56] ip link set eth0 something something iirc [12:56] can also do it using ethtool if that is installed [12:56] conceivably one can install an old 2.6 kernel version in a modern ubuntu release but some things won't work - notably hardware drivers [12:57] kd: see this for examples https://www.shellhacks.com/change-speed-duplex-ethernet-card-linux/ [12:58] sudo ip link set eth0 up|down [12:58] or just good old sudo ifip dev eth0 [12:58] venzen: we're talking about forcing speed/duplex [12:58] correction: sudo ifup dev eth0 [12:58] to troubleshoot issues with a switch/router [12:58] and idown [12:59] ifdown - i'm losing the ability to type coherently [12:59] you guys are a wealth of knowledge [13:00] that last link i have to install ethtool [13:00] but i cant cause i cant connect to router >.< [13:03] kd: you can go to the 17.04 package repo and download the ethtool .deb package on a nother host. Then copy it to the lubuntu host and use sudo dpkg -i ethtool_xyz.deb to manually install [13:03] just make sureon the package page that it has no other dependdencies - you should download those too and install before ethtool [13:05] kd: https://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/ethtool [13:05] kd: well it is possible with "ip" as well, I just dont remember [13:05] read the manpage :p [13:06] no dependencies (your system already has libc6) [13:06] ok (: [13:06] hateball: that might be simpler [13:09] i looked at the man page is dawnting [13:10] wht about ip-link command === demophobia_ is now known as demophobia [13:12] kd ip is a modern utility that does a lot of network related stuff: address and feature configuration (e.g. link speed) and routing, etc [13:18] btw - i just checked the ip manpage and there doesn't seem to be a command to set link speed - it'll have to be ethtool - which is what i've always used [13:19] could be [13:20] * venzen takes a hit from the bong and reminisces... [13:20] i've been using Lubuntu for 6 years and love it [13:20] lightweight. no matter how powerful a machine i use i always opt for Lubuntu [13:20] i discovered lubuntu last week [13:21] and alreayd loving it [13:21] i started this week and i'm liking it more than macOS at the moment, and, frankly, liking this $80 Dell more than a >$800 surface pro 4 [13:21] so sick of stupid problems like the screen dimming when i open a dark app [13:21] * hateball primarly uses KDE Plasma :o [13:22] its how i remember Gnome in the early 2000s - Ubuntu Unity just started resembling MacOS too much - making assumptions and trying to serve me up helpful things - which is really annoying in truth [13:22] this $80 dell lubuntu seems faster than that surface pro 4 too [13:23] demophobia: sure, i really enjoy not having a fancy desktop weighing down the whole system [13:24] hateball: i've used KDE at times but have always returned to Gnome and Gtk for various reasons [13:24]