[04:30] <Bashing-om> To all a good night o/
[06:00] <ducasse> good morning
[06:24] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:25] <ducasse> hi lordievader, all well?
[06:27] <lordievader> Yes, doing good here. How are you?
[06:29] <jink> BRILLIANT, THANKS FOR ASKING.
[06:29] <jink> Morning, kids. :)
[06:29] <ducasse> all good here as well.
[06:29] <ducasse> \o jink
[06:37] <lordievader> Hey jink
[06:37] <lordievader> Good to hear :)
[11:39] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[18:14] <Bashing-om> We do Monday support :)
[18:30] <oerheks> Yes. the more experienced trolls :-D
[18:33] <Bashing-om> Always that 10% - upper and lower .. we take the bad with the good and move on along :)
[19:35] <brunch> just installed gnome-session-flashback
[19:35] <brunch> pretty good
[19:36] <brunch> but I wonder if the update broke gnome-accounts or if it was the session
[19:38] <daftykins> i think a friend who is trying to hold onto the past uses that :>
[19:38] <brunch> it's quite alright, there's shortcuts for snapping windows
[19:38] <leftyfb> I've been using flashback for years
[19:39] <brunch> what I miss is super-a applicationname
[19:39] <nacc> too many ridiculous users today
[19:40] <daftykins> nacc: oh?
[19:40] <nacc> one got quite pissed off at leftyfb :)
[19:40] <brunch> alt-f2 is a good application launcher though
[19:41] <nacc> for havinng installed eclipse from source because someone in #ubuntu told them to and leftyfb telling them that was unsupported
[19:41] <brunch> if you know the executable name
[19:41] <leftyfb> ;)
[19:41] <leftyfb> brunch: I use gnome-do
[19:41] <brunch> gnome-do?
[19:41] <brunch> wotsdat
[19:43] <leftyfb> brunch: it's a launcher I use
[19:43] <daftykins> all the cool kids clearly stick to packages
[19:44] <brunch> does that require me to click?
[19:44]  * brunch grimaces in disgust
[19:46] <leftyfb> brunch: negative
[19:47] <leftyfb> super+space -> type: firefox -> hit enter
[19:47] <brunch> but that's equal to alt-f2 firefox
[19:47] <brunch> or fir\t
[19:48] <leftyfb> brunch: only if you know the binary name
[19:48] <brunch> I actually like gnome3 quite much
[19:48] <brunch> I just despise mutter
[19:49] <leftyfb> brunch: yes, but we were talking about gnome-session-flashback
[19:49] <brunch> ah yes, the multi-desktop is well done
[19:49] <brunch> just the way I like it
[19:50] <brunch> alt-tabbing among applications works immediatly
[19:50] <brunch> metacity gives fantastic performance
[19:50] <brunch> isn't mate the continuation of this DE?
[19:51] <oerheks> that firefox 52 story ..
[19:51] <oerheks> just walked by
[19:52] <leftyfb> oerheks: you missed the eclipse one. That one was better.
[19:52] <oerheks> i caused the eclips issue with ubuntu-make ..
[19:53] <oerheks> yeah, i ruined many servers and desktops..
[20:01] <leftyfb> jeezus, I thought the eclipse was last month
[20:02] <oerheks> 5 more days .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_W273I2CU
[20:03] <leftyfb> wtf
[20:05] <daftykins> leftyfb: can you ease up on the language in here, please?
[20:05] <oerheks> It is just a constellation
[20:05] <daftykins> obfuscated or not
[20:07] <leftyfb> oh right
[20:07] <leftyfb> :/
[20:09] <daftykins> i myself enjoy replacing all religious names with 'Tux' :)
[22:05] <_Anna_> What's the difference between Oracle's VirtualBox and its ubuntu version?
[22:06] <nacc> _Anna_: dunno, read the changelog?
[22:07] <nacc> _Anna_: i assume oracle's is not free
[22:07] <daftykins> didn't they use some kind of proprietary driver for USB too?
[22:08] <_Anna_> So it's not completly open source? is that why ubuntu guys made their own version?
[22:08] <oerheks> take a read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox/Installation
[22:08] <nacc> _Anna_: it's not their own version
[22:08] <oerheks> licensing
[22:08] <nacc> _Anna_: please do some basic research :)
[22:11] <daftykins> like even a google
[22:11] <nacc> _Anna_: and i don't mean that rudely, but it feels like you didn't look at what is in both optionns
[22:12] <oerheks> i would go for KVM, when your guest is linux
[22:12] <oerheks> much more reliable
[22:12] <nacc> yep, it's pretty easy to use
[22:12] <Bashing-om> \o EriC^^  .
[22:12] <_Anna_> Well, you're wrong. I have searched and I even asked on oracle's chat, but they refused to say.
[22:12] <nacc> and if you dont need VMs but containers, LXD is really handy
[22:12] <nacc> _Anna_: oracle refused to tell you what is in their software?
[22:13] <nacc> _Anna_: so how are we supposed to know?
[22:13] <oerheks> _Anna_, wrong? ... you claim they don't answer, so you are trolling
[22:13] <oerheks> :-D
[22:13] <oerheks>  /ignore
[22:14] <_Anna_> They refused to accept it as theirs. They say it's a fork.
[22:14] <_Anna_> I'm talking about the one someone can get from Software Center vs the one from their site.
[22:14] <nacc> _Anna_: do you understand the Debian Free Software Guidelines?
[22:15] <nacc> _Anna_: or what a distribution is/does?
[22:16] <_Anna_> Yes nacc. Do you always treat others like they are stupid?
[22:16] <nacc> _Anna_: if you understand the above, then I don't understand what you're asking at all
[22:16] <daftykins> it was definitely accurate in this instance
[22:17] <nacc> _Anna_: a) Debian repackages the upstream tarball because the raw orig tarball violates DFSG. b) a distribution's published version is by definition a fork, as it's from some point in time in the past.
[22:18] <nacc> _Anna_: you can see what is in a given srcpkg by `pull-lp-source <pkgname> <version>` if you want
[22:19] <oerheks> sudo lxc-create -t download -n u1 -- -d ubuntu -r artful -a amd64
[22:19] <nacc> oerheks: that's old :)
[22:19] <nacc> oerheks: lxc launch ubuntu-daily:artful
[22:20] <nacc> oerheks: lxc vs. lxd
[22:20] <nacc> lxc- are lxc; `lxc ` are lxd
[22:20] <nacc> oerheks: don't bother learning lxc1 if you don't need to :)
[22:20] <oerheks> thanks, that is where i got flabbergasted.
[22:20] <nacc> and you don't need sudo that way :)
[22:21] <nacc> there are three remotes by defaults (ubuntu: for released versions; ubuntu-daily: for daily builds; and images: for the rest (e.g., debian, fedora)
[22:21] <oerheks> lxc-destroy -n u1
[22:21] <nacc> oerheks: :)
[22:21] <oerheks> Done, sir.
[22:21] <nacc> oerheks: and you can of course give your containers names (just after the image)
[22:22] <nacc> oerheks: and there are shortcuts/aliases (e.g., ubuntu:x is the same as ubuntu:xenial)
[22:22] <oerheks> Yeah, best thing is to do it with stable xenial.
[22:22] <nacc> oerheks:  we just add lxd building support to `git ubuntu`
[22:23] <nacc> oerheks: and i use it multiples times a day -- feel free to ask if you get stuck :)
[22:23] <oerheks> I need a course ... can i somehowe invite you to do that? i will find 10 users or so..
[22:23] <nacc> heh
[22:23] <nacc> i think stefan has done talks online
[22:23] <nacc> (the lxd maintainer)
[22:24] <nacc> i don't use it heavily enough to justify explainning it -- but i can explain the basics of using it and then it's just ... use it :)
[22:25] <_Anna_> I don't care if it is considered a fork or not. And I can't read the code. I'm not a developer or something. I'm a user trying to decide which one to install and why! Someone from the ubuntu team took VirtualBox from Oracle, changed something (oracle guys say they don't know what is changed by ubuntu guys) and then put it on Software Center. Take a look. It says "by ubuntu", not "by Oracle". So the question is: What is changed?
[22:26] <nacc> _Anna_: read the changelog
[22:26] <nacc> _Anna_: as i said?
[22:26] <_Anna_> There is no changelog?
[22:26] <nacc> ...
[22:27] <nacc> _Anna_: `apt changelog virtualbox`
[22:27] <nacc> _Anna_: also, none of this is really for this channel
[22:27] <nacc> _Anna_: i think you wanted #ubuntu
[22:28] <nacc> _Anna_: and again, I feel like you don't undestand what a distribution is? no one "from the ubuntu team" took virtualbox from oracle. 1) debian is the upstream for ubuntu's packages, not oracle. 2) all distributions (except rolling ones) freeze the versions when they do a release. That's what a distribution *is*.
[22:29] <oerheks> the difference is clear...
[22:29] <_Anna_> That command would give me the changes from an older version of the original program to a newer version or the original program. It wouldn't give the changes from the original program to the fork.
[22:29] <nacc> _Anna_: if you want ubuntu support, use the ubuntu package, if you want oracle's support, use the oracle support
[22:29] <nacc> _Anna_: *what* original program?
[22:29] <nacc> _Anna_: if you want to see the differences between the upstream base tarball and the srcpkg, you'll have to read the code.
[22:31] <_Anna_> original = the one from Oracle's site. oracle's guys insist the one on Software Center is a fork. [for which they know nothing(!) about]. Sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology. I'm saying what I've been told.
[22:33] <_Anna_> I was only wondering if there are more or less features and of what kind.
[22:39] <daftykins> sounds a lot like a support query to me
[22:43] <_Anna_> sounds like a fork that it doesn't have to exist?
[22:44] <nacc> _Anna_: ENOPARSE, that question doesn't make sense to me
[22:50] <_Anna_> I don't know what enoparse means.
[22:51] <nacc> _Anna_: i didn't parse your question.
[22:55] <daftykins> how is this query not wrapped up already...
[22:57] <oerheks>  "Error: Not Parsed" (or "Sorry, I didn't understand that.")
[23:00] <_Anna_> let's wrap it up then, daftykins Is support (and where you get it) the only difference? And if yes, then why the ubuntu version still exists if offers practically zero?
[23:01] <daftykins> let's rewind a bit, are you asking this because you tried to get help in its' official channel and they denied it citing "it's ubuntu flavoured! ask them!"
[23:02] <nacc> _Anna_: did you read /topic? this isn't the support channel.
[23:03] <oerheks> Do you need usb2.0 support/pci pass-through? no, use the open source one..
[23:05] <_Anna_> No, I'm asking for support! I've tried both, saw no difference, kept the official and it's working fine now. I just don't understand what is the use of the ubuntu version. The default package manager of ubuntu-mate, Software Boutique, offers the official version straight from oracle's site. I think there is no point in Software Center not doing the same.
[23:06] <nacc> _Anna_: you're asking for support in the non-support channel?
[23:06] <_Anna_> I'm not* asking for support
[23:06] <oerheks> LoLz
[23:06] <oerheks> are you drunk ?
[23:06] <_Anna_> NOT
[23:06] <nacc> _Anna_: ok, you claimed to understand the DFSG earlier
[23:07] <nacc> _Anna_: that is the answer as to why there is an Ubuntu version that is not identical to Oracle's.
[23:08] <_Anna_> You don't even understand what I'm saying and you call me drunk? wtf! Are you always that stupid AND rude?!
[23:09] <oerheks> Yes and Yes. Why are you not reading answers given?
[23:09] <nacc> _Anna_: is your question really why is there an ubuntu version of anything?
[23:09] <nacc> _Anna_: because that's how it reads right now
[23:10] <daftykins> _Anna_: 10 minutes without a response, instead you're fighting :( what a shame
[23:13] <oerheks> let's discuss this :-D
[23:17] <nacc> they have resorted to PM insntead
[23:17]  * oerheks waits for the ban
[23:17] <daftykins> wowzer
[23:47] <daftykins> i'd just like to highlight my favourite bit: "I've tried both, saw no difference, kept the official and it's working fine now"
[23:47] <daftykins> 'no difference' ... 'working fine now'
[23:48] <kenrin> If there is no difference there wouldn't be two versions
[23:50] <nacc> fwiw, this might end up being a policy violation by mate :)
[23:50] <nacc> turns out there is a special welcome app in mate that may enable 3rd party repos by default
[23:50] <nacc> i'm d/l'ing the iso to see
[23:51] <daftykins> kenrin: you have too much faith in FOSS
[23:51] <daftykins> nacc: :O scandal
[23:51] <kenrin> Nah.  I didn't say useful differences,  even a name change is a difference and happens all the time
[23:52] <daftykins> :>
[23:52] <daftykins> g'night \o
[23:53] <pauljw> gnite daftykins