[06:43] <Jupiter123> how is ubuntu different from mint?
[06:44] <Jupiter123> though mint is based on ubuntu, what differentiates it from ubuntu?
[06:44] <Jupiter123> and are mint's update policies prudent?
[06:46] <alkisg> Jupiter123: mint doesn't follow the debian policy in package management
[06:47] <alkisg> E.g. they just modify whatever they want in /etc, breaking other packages and updates
[06:47] <Jupiter123> alkisg: but, mint has both versions. One based on Debian and the other one based on Ubuntu.
[06:48] <alkisg> Yes, it does the same in both versions :D
[06:48] <alkisg> So neither Debian developers nor Ubuntu developers like that very much
[06:48] <Jupiter123> what is flawed in their update policy?
[06:48] <alkisg> They could just create a "flavor", instead of trying to hack their own "distro"
[06:48] <Jupiter123> please educate me.
[06:48] <alkisg> For example, they go and write mint in /etc/os-release
[06:49] <alkisg> So the next update prompts "hey administrator, you modified that file, but now there's an update, do you want to overwrite it?"
[06:49] <Jupiter123> why it tops the distrowatch rankings?
[06:49] <alkisg> And the administrator replies "wth? I never touched that file"
[06:49] <alkisg> Because it has good themes :)
[06:49] <alkisg> And because many linux users have more enthousiasm than knowledge
[06:49] <Jupiter123> then, it is not as secure as ubuntu?
[06:49] <Jupiter123> or debian.
[06:50] <alkisg> They also block some updates, thus lowering security
[06:50] <alkisg> So yeah
[06:51] <Jupiter123> what about other ubuntu derivatives like elementary and zorinos?
[06:51] <Jupiter123> do they also have a similar policy?
[06:52] <alkisg> Long story short, "real" distros have their own repositories and don't depend on other repositories
[06:52] <Jupiter123> ok.
[06:52] <alkisg> Mint depends on ubuntu's repositories
[06:52] <Jupiter123> I am using ubuntu mate.
[06:52] <alkisg> And has an "overlay" for its own
[06:52] <alkisg> So, avoid distros that aren't real distros, and rely on other distro repositories
[06:52] <alkisg> MATE doesn't have its own repositories, it's a proper flavor using ubuntu's repositories
[06:52] <Jupiter123> what exactly do you mean by real distros?
[06:53] <alkisg> The ones that do the work
[06:53] <alkisg> Instead of others that want to offer a theme etc on top of the work of others
[06:54] <Jupiter123> but ubuntu also is based on debian
[06:54] <alkisg> Yes, but it has its own repositories
[06:54] <alkisg> That means it maintains the versions it ships by itself
[06:54] <Jupiter123> ok
[09:11] <sigurdson> Anyone know how to add Klite codec's pack or any good codec pack so i can play files in VLC?
[11:09] <CrazyTux> what to do when the OS freezes suddenly?
[11:10] <CrazyTux> why ubuntu has this problem of random freezing?
[11:16] <alkisg> CrazyTux: run `dmesg` and check for errors there
[11:17] <alkisg> It doesn't freeze for most people here....
[11:17] <CrazyTux> well, since the installation it never froze. Today was probably the first time it did.
[11:21] <CrazyTux> I hope it will not happen again.
[11:22] <diogenes_> CrazyTux, doesn't it also happen on win and mac?
[11:23] <CrazyTux> diogenes_, I have stopped using Windows.
[11:24] <diogenes_> I stopped also but what I am talking about is that it happens everywhere
[11:24] <diogenes_> doesn't depend on OS in most of the cases
[11:25] <CrazyTux> ok
[11:26] <CrazyTux> does it happen on Mint?
[11:36] <CrazyTux> diogenes_, could it be because of some plugins installed in Firefox?
[11:36] <CrazyTux> the OS froze when I was browsing on Firefox.
[11:38] <diogenes_> everything can be
[11:38] <CrazyTux> ok
[12:22] <nemo> So I was reading:
[12:22] <nemo> http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_an_Ubuntu_Xenial_installation
[12:23] <nemo> which was making me rethink my current transition of all my ubuntu 14.04 machines to devuan
[12:23] <nemo> (currently is only my father in law's computer)
[12:23] <nemo> oh. and the living room one
[12:23] <nemo> What I was wondering was.  As currently packaged in ubuntu xenial, would MATE function fine with systemd stripped?
[12:25] <nemo> (they have instructions there for xfce, but not mate)
[12:38] <mate|1477> quit
[12:38] <reeb> Hello :D anyone using finger print reader ?  good program to use ?
[12:40] <reeb> This is for a Dell latitude e6400.
[14:43] <imexil> Hi, I've just upgraded 17.04 to 17.10 and now the different layouts are gone. I even needed to install mate-tweak. But I can no longer set up mutiny. does 17.10 need additional packages to offer the different themes?
[14:43] <imexil> layout = mutiny, cupertino, redmond
[14:43] <marosg> they are all in mate-tweak
[14:44] <imexil> let me log out and in again.
[14:44] <marosg> I installed 17.10 and mate-tweak was there, maybe something to do with upgrade path?
[14:46] <imexil> must be. I only get GNOME2 and Traditional. Nothing else.
[14:47] <alkisg> imexil: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=redmond.layout&mode=exactfilename&suite=zesty&arch=any
[14:47] <alkisg> Same for artful
[14:48] <alkisg> I.e. the file you're looking for comes from the "ubuntu-mate-default-settings" package
[14:48] <alkisg> Install it...
[14:48] <imexil> yes that package was missing actually. Strange this since I had 17.04 on mutiny
[14:49] <alkisg> imexil: were you using a ppa, like e.g. for some mate newer version?
[14:49] <alkisg> PPAs cause upgrade issues...
[14:50] <imexil> I had PPAs but not mate specific ones IIRC
[14:50] <imexil> also keyboard locale is borked. Says its correct Norwegian but is actually US
[14:50] <alkisg> Strange then. You could check the upgrade log and report the bug, if you feel like it
[14:51] <alkisg> sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
[14:51] <alkisg> And reset all mate keyboard settings
[14:51] <alkisg> I don't know why all DEs want to implement their own keyboard handling in broken ways, when xorg implements it correctly...
[14:52] <imexil> I simply removed Norwegian and added it again which fixed it
[14:53] <imexil> still no mutiny or any other Panel (as I see it is called correctly)
[14:53] <alkisg> ls /usr/share/mate-panel/layouts
[14:55] <imexil> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25667353/
[14:56] <alkisg> And you open mate-tweak and you don't see those?
[14:56] <imexil> exactly
[14:56] <alkisg> Did you try logout/login, after you installed the mate settings package?
[14:56] <imexil> where would I find the upgrade log
[14:56] <imexil> yes
[14:57] <imexil> let me do a restart just to be on the safe side
[14:57] <alkisg> ok
[15:00] <imexil> Only Gnome2 and Traditional still
[15:02] <imexil> also it seems it is missing quite a lot of the features mentioned in the https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-artful-beta2/ notes
[15:02] <imexil> like I don't have the session indocator
[15:02] <imexil> *indicator
[15:03] <marosg> stupid question - does it report 17.10 in /etc/os-release ?
[15:04] <imexil> NAME="Ubuntu"
[15:04] <imexil> VERSION="17.10 (Artful Aardvark)"
[15:04] <imexil> ID=ubuntu
[15:04] <imexil> ID_LIKE=debian
[15:04] <imexil> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu Artful Aardvark (development branch)"
[15:04] <imexil> VERSION_ID="17.10"
[15:06] <imexil> I might have found something in the log.
[15:08] <imexil> here is my apt.log and there is some problems with mate-tweak indeed: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25667443/
[15:09] <imexil> Line 639ff
[15:20] <imexil> OK I did a apt --reinstall ubuntu-mate-desktop and now I can choose all Panel types but no effect what so ever. Neither after restart
[15:21] <imexil> Also still no Session menu etc.
[15:28] <imexil> Looks like the upgrade must have borked out in the middle but didn't really report this. I'm running apt upgrade now and let's see if that will fix it.
[16:40] <imexil> Right after some iterations with synaptic, it seems to be resolved. Looks like broken upgrade was the reason. As to why ... hard to tell now. Anyway I'm good to go now.
[18:22] <TaZeR> i cant wait for ubuntu 20!
[18:30] <ouroumov_> TaZeR, 20 ?
[19:19] <nemo> ouroumov_: presumably whatever ubuntu is released in 2½ years? ☺
[21:01] <TaZeR> yes i think it will be a revolutionary version
[21:02] <TaZeR> just because developers will try extra hard to make that number special
[21:02] <sixwheeledbeast> why 20? or 20.04?
[21:13] <TaZeR> 20.xx however they number it