[04:26] <roasted> is there a download somewhere for the gnome theme 17.10 is using out of the box?
[06:46] <ducasse> roasted: i'm not sure which theme that is as i don't use a de (might be 'ambiance'?), but the package should be available through packages.ubuntu.com and/or launchpad
[12:28] <flux242> what's the default display server in 17.10?
[12:30] <ducasse> wayland, if it is supported by your system and you are talking about the default ubuntu desktop and not another flavor
[12:31] <flux242> what about xubuntu?
[12:32] <ducasse> then xorg, obviously
[12:50] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[12:53] <erle-> Gnome and KDE Wayland
[12:53] <erle-> Mate and Xfce Xorg
[12:54] <roasted> ducasse: yeah, for sure. I'm just having trouble locating it. I can't figure out where it resides on my system despite me obviously having it when I boot into the "Ubuntu" session, but once I go into the "Gnome" session I can't select it or anything. It must reside elsewhere and be hardcoded from the Ubuntu session.
[12:56] <ducasse> roasted: could it possibly be gnome-themes-standard or -data? description says "Adwaita GTK+ 2 theme ...", but...
[12:56] <ducasse> *shrug*
[12:57] <ducasse> erle-: the default for kde is still xorg in 17.10, afaik
[12:58] <erle-> ducasse, thanks for the info
[12:59] <BluesKaj> I set up wayland on this Artful pc with the nouveau driver for nvidia gpu, and it took 5 reboots to get a semi stable desktop,  but widgets didn't work, or yakuake or many system settings , so wayland needs more development for sure.
[13:00] <BluesKaj> on both sides, nvidia and Kubuntu
[13:01] <roasted> ducasse: not sure. I find it weird I can't select it as a theme from the Gnome session. That's what makes me think it must be somewhat hard coded elsewhere.
[13:01] <roasted> ducasse: but then the question comes up, how would I use it and install it? I can't seem to locate a .zip of it.
[13:03] <ducasse> roasted: what do you have under /usr/share/themes? i assume the data files would still live there...
[13:04] <ducasse> then you can use dpkg -S to determine package name
[13:04] <BluesKaj> erle-, there are kwin-wayland packages that will work somewhat on kde/plasma https://community.kde.org/KWin/Wayland
[13:04] <roasted> ducasse: Awaitda, Adwaitda-dark, Ambiance, default, emacs, highcontrast, numix, numix daily, radiance, raleigh.
[13:04] <roasted> sounds like the typical stuff
[13:04] <roasted> not sure if any of those scream "Ubuntu Gnome Shell Theme" to me. But maybe?
[13:07] <ducasse> 'default'? if not, i've always thought the default theme was ambiance, but i could be very misguided there :)
[13:08] <roasted> Default in Gnome session is just... the regular Gnome Shell theme... :P
[13:09] <roasted> just bounced over to the Ubuntu session. The shell theme is Default here as well, but clearly different as it has the orange accents.
[13:10] <ducasse> BluesKaj: isn't ambiance the default ubuntu theme?
[13:10] <roasted> Ambiance is default, but there's a difference between the GTK theme and the Gnome Shell theme (if you were referencing my question)
[13:11] <ducasse> ah, right.
[13:11] <ducasse> maybe ask the wonderful people in #ubuntu-desktop?
[13:12] <roasted> I could. Haven't yet. Figured +1 would be the way to go since it's 17.10 specific. :P
[13:12] <BluesKaj> ducasse, breeze
[13:12] <ducasse> i'm not a de user myself, so i'm a bit lost digging into their innards :)
[13:13] <ducasse> BluesKaj: yes, for plasma, but nvm :)
[13:16] <erle-> Is anyone still using KDE?
[13:16] <ikonia> many people do 
[13:16] <erle-> Even SLED installs you Gnome if you don't explicitly tell otherweise.
[13:17] <erle-> That's what KDE fans keep telling, my feeling is that they have fewer users than Xfce.
[13:18] <ducasse> why is that a suitable question for this channel?
[13:18] <erle-> (don't get me wrong, I also started with KDE in 2001)
[13:18] <erle-> ducasse, you are right, sorry
[13:19] <ducasse> ask in #ubuntu-discuss, there are several people in there who use plasma
[13:35] <BluesKaj> erle-, frankly it doesn't matter if xfce has more users, kde/plasma is a viable and extremely flexible DE and that's is it's biggest problem. It does take time to configure it to one's satisfaction, definitely not for users who expect instant gratification, but I'm sure you're aware of that.
[13:38] <jbicha> roasted: look in /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/
[13:40] <roasted> I see... theme files.
[13:40] <roasted> wonder how I can apply it as my theme of choice in Gnome session
[13:43] <roasted> compressing those items in a .zip and adding it via tweak tool said successful yet did nothing. Eh, was worth a shot. :P
[13:43] <ducasse> :)
[13:58] <erle-> Are there any plans to push btrfs in Ubuntu?
[13:59] <roasted> somewhat doubt it, but maybe
[14:00] <roasted> I haven't been getting the best vibes from btrfs for quite a while, just in terms of issues and certain key dev outlets pulling out.
[14:00] <roasted> I'd bet on Ubuntu pushing ZFS before btrfs, but who knows.
[14:02] <ducasse> +1 on that. btrfs hasn't even really been embraced for lxd (it works, though), where it could be useful
[14:03] <ducasse> i mean, i use btrfs myself, but not on any fs that holds data i care about :)
[14:03] <roasted> I haven't explored the likes of FS's beyond ext4 lately
[14:03] <roasted> I have two software raid arrays on my file server and it's... just fine.
[14:03] <ducasse> zfs is really, really nice
[14:03] <roasted> someday I'd like to tinker with zfs more
[14:04] <roasted> but I struggle with the idea of uprooting something that #justworks right now
[14:04] <erle-> ZFS4Linux is not the same as native ZFS
[14:04] <erle-> what matters is the code, not the on-disk format
[14:04] <roasted> what's different?
[14:05] <erle-> ZFS4Linux does not give Linux automatically the matureness of Solaris' ZFS
[14:05] <ducasse> most of the code is unchanged
[14:05] <erle-> the glue code matters
[14:05] <ducasse> but this is also heading quickly offtopic
[14:05] <erle-> yes
[14:06] <roasted> I'm still struggling with this theme.
[14:06] <roasted> I must be doing something wrong.
[14:12] <BluesKaj> ZFS seems to be directed at very dynamic use and large changes to files and applications etc, almost overkill for the likes of most users
[14:15] <roasted> I understand ZFS can rebuild its array without doing the full sync that traditional raid has to do. Easier on the drives. Makes me wonder/curious/semi interested.
[14:15] <roasted> if one of my 3TB drives would pop I'd be looking at a 20-24 hour resync time where the drives are hounded pretty good...
[14:16] <roasted> why did Jeremy have to bounce after his quick input. I feel like he holds the answer. :<
[14:23] <tosmann> There are 2 things that ZFS differs in in regard to RAID. One is that it actually handles failed volumes better than most, if not all of its competitors using raidz2, raidz3 - the other thing is more important - bit rot. ZFS has built in data retention that keeps bit-rot away. No other FS offers this. As for safety and security goes - I had a 45-disk 50TB JBOD ZFS raidz3 array bork on me (crappy disks) - in total, I lost exactly 0.5 files (1 file got 
[14:23] <tosmann> corrupted so that half the contents were lost). That's how good ZFS is. Wouldn't trust any other FS to my data (that's 25 years of experience with file systems on over 10 distinct platforms to account for!)
[14:26] <roasted> tosmann: for sure. I've had thoughts about doing it, just not sure I'm at the time/place to venture into it more. Wife is flirting with the red zone of going into labor. Don't think she'd take kindly to me saying hang on I'm getting my data synced to the ZFS array, so I'm letting my ext4 mdadm setup in place for now. :P
[14:27] <roasted> it's something I want to tinker with though.
[14:30] <tosmann> congrats on your wife and newborn to be! :) Middle name of newborn "Artsy" ? ;) - but yes, I seriously recommend looking into ZFS. It _is_ a bit slower than other RAID arrays on Linux (while it's much faster on OpenSolaris) - but that's bound to change soon. Just remember - use 2 identical sized partitions on 2 (or more) distinct (and preferably different kinds of) disks.
[14:31] <xan_IT> hi, need help to configure static ip on ubuntu 17.10 server
[14:32] <xan_IT>  /etc/network/interfaces seams not works anymore
[14:32] <tosmann> xan_IT: same problem I went through yesterday!
[14:32] <xan_IT> good, have you found solution?
[14:33] <roasted> tosmann: thanks! 3rd one, and a boy this time! Didn't think I was capable... :P My biggest concerns about it are hardware spec. I have an i3 server, 8GB non-ECC RAM. Storage is 60GB SSD, 1x2TB HDD, 2x1TB (RAID1), 4x3TB (RAID6). If I put the current RAID1 and RAID6 in two separate pools I question if my current hardware is 'good' for ZFS. 
[14:34] <xan_IT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25700371/
[14:34] <tosmann> xan_IT: install the ofipdown package
[14:34] <tosmann> duh
[14:34] <tosmann> ifupdown
[14:34] <BluesKaj> xan_IT, using network-manager?
[14:35] <xan_IT> has only command line ssh
[14:35] <StrangeNoises> man systemd.network
[14:35] <StrangeNoises> caveat: not had to do this myself
[14:35] <xan_IT> so is confirmed that from 17.10 systemd manage network?
[14:36] <ducasse> no, 'netplan'
[14:37] <tosmann> xan_IT: you only need to add the ifupdown package, edit /etc/network/interfaces and it works again. Alternatively, if you have a relatively simple e/n/i configuration, then you could try "netplan ifupdown-migrate" - if you want to try to take the new route of action (i.e. _not_ use ifupdown)
[14:37] <roasted> random "looking forward" question. If I have a 14.04 box, can I leap to 18.04 in place come that day? Or would it hit 16.04 in between?
[14:38] <tosmann> but it's not guaranteed to work...
[14:38] <Faux> roasted: Officially you have to go through 16.04.
[14:38] <xan_IT> thz i try to use the new way :D
[14:38] <roasted> Faux: thought so. thanks <3
[14:38] <xan_IT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25700371/ this is the old configuration
[14:39] <Faux> (In practice, you could try it the other way; it generally works in my experience.)
[14:39] <tosmann> roasted: I've never been able to do an LTS2LTS upgrade and multiple upgrades are a pain (last one, 12.04->14.04 required 12.10, 13.04, 13.10 and then 14.04 ... ) Bound to mess up one's system.
[14:40] <StrangeNoises> netplan seems sensible, if on ubuntu, which of course we are. also has migration from /etc/network/interfaces
[14:41] <tosmann> Pretty much, if a system upgrade from LTS to LTS is supposed to work, the system has to be as vanilla as possible. Never seen a system "vanilla" beyond the first 2 minutes after install...
[14:41] <BluesKaj> xan_IT, remove auto lo and iface lo inet loopback
[14:41] <roasted> tosmann: yeah. I do an obscene amount of backups on my server (nightly rsyncs of raw data to other locations, nightly tar's of /etc and other config dirs, etc) so a rebuild is wicked easy for me. Makes me a little more playful with upgrades since things CAN explode and it won't matter.
[14:41] <StrangeNoises> never heard of it before now. reading. seems to be ubuntu-specific, as opposed to a solution that ought to work on any systemd distro
[14:42] <xan_IT>  sudo netplan ifupdown-migrate
[14:42] <xan_IT> [sudo] password for xan: 
[14:42] <xan_IT> enp1s0: method static is not supported
[14:43] <StrangeNoises> probably best write it by hand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Netplan/Design
[14:43] <ducasse> it doesn't seem to support a whole lot yet, no
[14:43] <StrangeNoises> (useful example config)
[14:44] <tosmann> wonderful - perhaps they only migrate dhcp interfaces :p For now I opted to go with ifupdown on my server - "if it works, I see no reason to break it (with netplan)".
[14:45] <roasted> omg, jbicha!
[14:45] <roasted> you left me hangin bro :P
[14:45] <roasted> Do you know how I can take the default gnome-shell theme from the Ubuntu session (in /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme as you indicated) and apply that to the "Gnome" session (installed from repos) within 17.10?
[14:46] <roasted> I tried to take the files, zip them, and install it in Tweak Tool. Says successful but it's clearly not applying it. Looks like the default gnome shell theme with the heavy gray and blue accents.
[14:46] <jbicha> why don't you just use the Ubuntu session?
[14:47] <BluesKaj> xan_IT add this, auto enp1s0
[14:47] <roasted> truth be told I'm trying to simply avoid the appindicator, jbicha. It's a little broken from what I've seen. Goal was to use Gnome, enable Ubuntu Dock (avoid enabling appindicator), and otherwise theme it to match.
[14:47] <StrangeNoises> wasn't aware the *shell* theme was different
[14:48] <xan_IT> BluesKaj there is already 
[14:48] <StrangeNoises> or wouldn't both appear in the shell theme menu?
[14:48] <roasted> StrangeNoises: in 17.10, the Gnome theme is just listed as Default, but it's clearly the Ubuntu-specific gnome shell theme.
[14:48] <jbicha> roasted: there's not an easy to way to disable one extension https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=783104
[14:49] <roasted> jbicha: right -- that's what I was told. That's why I just spun up the Gnome session (not Ubuntu session) and was adding things back.
[14:49] <BluesKaj> xan_IT, right ok, then make sure your DNS nameservers are still listed in /etc/resolv.conf
[14:49] <jbicha> roasted: as a temporary workaround, you can edit /usr/share/gnome-shell/modes/ubuntu.json to remove the appindicator extension but that will be overwritten whenever gnome-shell is updated
[14:49] <roasted> oh?
[14:50] <roasted> that sounds glorious. I must test this.
[14:50] <jbicha> roasted: I believe there's only 1 app in the default install that uses appindicators (transmission, & error messages from the software updater)
[14:51] <xan_IT> BluesKaj resolv.conf -> nameserver 127.0.0.53
[14:51] <roasted> jbicha: yeah - but nextcloud, dropbox, quassel, and telegram are all ones I use in my own world of "roasted's default install", and all 4 of those act... weird. :P
[14:51] <jbicha> so I don't see why you think appindicator is so broken that it's worth all that work
[14:51] <roasted> jbicha: all it takes is locking the screen and resuming to see where appindicator has issues. :<
[14:52] <jbicha> I don't have that problem ;)
[14:52] <roasted> I'd rather not have it at the moment than have it in that incarnation.
[14:52] <StrangeNoises> appindicators appears to not even show at all in Xorg sessions. that problem's come and gone, but it's present atm
[14:52] <roasted> jbicha: there's no less than a dozen reports on launchpad, github, and upstream to the appindicator extension though.
[14:52] <StrangeNoises> and then yeah even when it works, some things in it don't survive a displaysleep
[14:53] <roasted> some reports suggest it may be an upstream to Qt bug, but who knows. There's a number of squirrely things going on with it.
[14:54] <StrangeNoises> indeed, mostly what i have in mine is enpass and nextcloud clients, and those are both qt
[14:54] <StrangeNoises> :-(
[14:54] <roasted> in the end I'd rather not have it vs deal with it. I tested what I could, reported everything I saw, etc. 
[14:54] <roasted> I could always add it back if I catch wind the reports get updated
[14:55] <roasted> jbicha: I just nuked it from the ubuntu.json file as you recommended. Thank you for that. It'll help for my sanity for now as I tinker with 17.10 more. :D
[14:56] <BluesKaj> xan_IT, so you don't use DNS nameservers?
[14:57] <xan_IT> blueskaj seams, it's strange, ping www.google.com works
[14:59] <BluesKaj> xan_IT, try addding nameserver 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 to /etc/resolve.conf in place of that subnet 127...
[14:59] <ducasse> or set them up in /e/n/i
[14:59] <BluesKaj> err /etc/resolv.conf
[15:14] <xan_IT> BluesKaj seams solved configuring /etc/netplan/01-netcfg.yaml
[15:14] <xan_IT> but i don't know how works :D
[15:14] <xan_IT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25700687/
[15:16] <BluesKaj> not familiar with netplan
[15:16] <ducasse> nobody is yet :)
[15:17] <xan_IT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25700701/
[15:17] <xan_IT> why is so complicated ???
[15:17] <xan_IT> dns are so fun :D
[15:32] <StrangeNoises> grr. really getting tired of my gnome sessions never surviving a display sleep
[15:33] <StrangeNoises> and i mean, right now, *never*
[15:33] <StrangeNoises> though that changes over time
[15:58] <Asad2005> Do i need to remove dash to dock in order to have a working ubuntu dock? and how
[16:00] <StrangeNoises> in the end i removed the dashtodock *package* (ie: gnome-shell-extension-dashtodock) because trying to switch between it and ubuntu dock was crashing, and installed dash to dock from the extensions site instead, and that works fine
[16:00] <StrangeNoises> don't get thunderbird unread mail badges though :-(
[16:28] <StrangeNoises> huh. weird, appindicators have actually shown up in this session. completely randomly
[16:29] <StrangeNoises> only change i did was to upgrade dash to dock to current git master, primarily to get those icon badges. no idea why that should affect appindicators
[16:34] <Asad2005> StrangeNoises: I tried apt-get remove gnome-shell-extension-dashtodock but it returns not installed but still ubuntu dock is not showing and is showing error in extention page
[16:37] <madigens> is there a way to force a wayland ubuntu session? i can't select it from the login screen
[16:40] <ducasse> madigens: do you have nvidia hybrid graphics?
[16:41] <madigens> no, the laptop has some radeon 5xxx igp
[16:43] <ducasse> then i'm not sure, sorry.
[16:48] <jbicha> Asad2005: gsettings reset org.gnome.shell enabled-extensions
[16:48] <jbicha> then you'll need to re-enable any extensions you want
[16:50] <roasted> jbicha: until a future version where one can disable Ubuntu-esque extensions in gnome tweak, is the modes/ubuntu.json editing as you name-dropped earlier the best go-to when utilizing ubuntu-session?
[16:51] <jbicha> roasted: I don't know how to answer that. It's definitely not supported since any future gnome-shell bugfix release will overwrite your modification
[16:51] <roasted> jbicha: but I like that idea, because if I see appindicator come back it's a signal to me that *perhaps* it were updated and i should check it out.
[16:52] <roasted> my goal isn't to go appindicator-free permanently. While I get 17.10 is still being refined, I find it to be an eye-sore with its (current) inconsistent behavior. So I think that might be the best approach for what I'm after.
[16:52] <Asad2005> jbicha: Thank you it worked
[17:20] <adamitsch> Why area select screenshot doesnt work ?
[17:45] <dm_comp> hi, I'm on 17.10 in Files I'm missing the side panel Home Doc Dow etc? 
[18:10] <jbicha> dm_comp: sorry, that feature doesn't work in the default Ubuntu 17.10 desktop
[18:11] <jbicha> dm_comp: maybe I misunderstood, could you post a screenshot?
[18:13] <roasted> isn't there a file somewhere in ~ that controls that?
[18:13] <roasted> /home/user/.config/gtk-3.0/bookmarks in my super quick search
[18:13] <jbicha> dm_comp: click 'Files' in the top bar to open the appmenu and make sure there is a checkbox next to Sidebar by clicking on it
[18:14] <adamitsch> any idea why selective area screenshot doesn't save a photo? 
[18:16] <jbicha> adamitsch: maybe you are affected by LP: #1720262 ?
[18:16] <roasted> hm, weird
[18:16] <roasted> I just hit CTRL W to close a chrome tab and my entire desktop logged out...
[18:17] <roasted> that's only the... 9th or 10th time that's happened with various close-oriented actions delivered via keyboard shortcut
[18:20] <roasted> wonder if that's a wayland thinger... been using that almost full time on this 17.10 rig
[18:21] <adamitsch> jbicha: yes, same problem. But it isn't yet solved? 
[18:22] <jbicha> adamitsch: no, one workaround would be to hide those Actions from the right-click menu but I'm not sure whether that is a good idea…
[18:24] <adamitsch> jbicha: I'll just wait until they fix it. It is useful feature and I find it working on every gnome distribution
[18:26] <jbicha> adamitsch: except it doesn't work on any gnome distribution now but you can still use the keyboard shortcuts
[18:26] <jbicha> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/screen-shot-record.html
[18:32] <adamitsch> jbicha: FML ... I thought you need to hold ctrl as I got used to while using ubuntu mate with custom shortcut. Thanks and sorry for bothering :D 
[18:47] <dm_comp> jbicha: thx! the sidebar was disabled :)
[18:48] <dm_comp> not sure how that happened