| oerheks | !isitoutyet | 09:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ubot5 | Nope, it's not out yet. Check back on Thursday! | 09:34 |
| oerheks | ..ohhhh | 09:34 |
| oerheks | what is not out, ubot5 ? | 09:34 |
| oerheks | .. clever marketing | 09:35 |
| === kostkon_ is now known as kostkon | ||
| lordievader | Good afternoon | 12:09 |
| BluesKaj | Hey folks | 12:10 |
| EriC^^ | evening all | 15:22 |
| nicomachus | good lord, what a day on #ubuntu... | 17:05 |
| daftykins | mmm? | 17:05 |
| daftykins | do tell :) | 17:05 |
| nicomachus | 12:06 < lfowlr> do you even understand it's ouput? | 17:08 |
| nicomachus | when nacc asked for a full dmesg | 17:08 |
| nicomachus | 12:04 < ironhoof> I am ubuntu 14.04 and after using -reinstall in the package | 17:08 |
| nicomachus | manager I now have 2 init, dbus daemons, and 2 upstarts is | 17:08 |
| nicomachus | there a way to correct this? | 17:09 |
| nicomachus | that's just.... what? how does that even happen? | 17:09 |
| ducasse | that lfowlr character just lost any attention from me by calling someone 'idiot' for the 2nd time | 17:15 |
| nicomachus | I just want to get my scrobbling from mpd set up. :( | 17:17 |
| nicomachus | librefm works fine. Lastfm? Noooooooo | 17:19 |
| ducasse | mpd <3 | 17:19 |
| nicomachus | that's normally my attitude but right now I'm just ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 17:19 |
| nicomachus | like, mpdscribble is trying to create 2 journals at /var/cache/mpdscribble/lastfm.journal and then a pid file at /var/run/mpdscribble.pid but it doesn't have permissions for /var/ | 17:21 |
| nicomachus | and then Last.fm is failing at a handshake somewhere. It almost looks like it's trying to POST to turtle.libre.fm but that's the URL for libre.fm. Last.fm should be post.audioscrobbler.com | 17:22 |
| nicomachus | WAIT | 17:23 |
| nicomachus | I GOT IT | 17:23 |
| nicomachus | OMG | 17:23 |
| TJ- | nicomachus: ironhoof could have been on a host that had LXD or Docker container(s) running in which case process list may well show multiple instances | 17:23 |
| nicomachus | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:23 |
| nicomachus | nacc has a patience I can't match | 17:31 |
| nacc | nicomachus: ironic, because i'm really impatient these days | 17:32 |
| nicomachus | what does that mean for me? lol | 17:32 |
| nacc | heh | 17:32 |
| nicomachus | i just... | 17:33 |
| nicomachus | "it's an infamous ubuntu error" | 17:33 |
| nicomachus | what | 17:33 |
| tgm4883 | nacc: I'm just going to start responding to incomplete thoughts with incomplete thoughts | 17:40 |
| nicomachus | lol | 17:41 |
| daftykins | :) | 17:41 |
| TJ- | lfowlr is a write-only bot :) | 17:42 |
| daftykins | :D | 17:42 |
| TJ- | Typical young Indian call-centre persona though | 17:42 |
| TJ- | Bangalore | 17:43 |
| daftykins | oh? "answers now"? | 17:44 |
| ducasse | he seems to think he knows a lot, but actually knows very little... | 17:45 |
| tgm4883 | TJ-: yep | 17:45 |
| daftykins | ducasse: so he's ripping off my entire support style, drat! | 17:47 |
| daftykins | ;D | 17:47 |
| tgm4883 | The type of person that sees a firetruck and thinks there can only be a fire | 17:47 |
| nicomachus | 12:45 < lfowlr> nacc: i don't want your "help" | 17:47 |
| nicomachus | well, that's the end of that, I suppose. | 17:47 |
| daftykins | how dare you help someone in a support channel! | 17:48 |
| tgm4883 | good | 17:48 |
| nacc | I guess I do wonder if someone was to have reasonably asked "apport reported an issue, how do I find the report it generated, or the bug it filed"? | 17:48 |
| TJ- | Sounded to me like the system failed to shutdown cleanly, maybe neeed a hard power-off. That can cause the empty "Your system crashed" popups at first log-in | 17:48 |
| nacc | is there a straightforward answer to that? | 17:48 |
| tgm4883 | I have zero sympathy for people that refuse to actually read what people are telling them | 17:48 |
| nacc | TJ-: ah that's a good point | 17:48 |
| tgm4883 | nacc: if apport reports and issue, there's a button for "more info" or something like that I believe | 17:49 |
| nicomachus | nacc: I don't know if there's a centralized log of those or not. somewhere between dmesg, syslog, and /var/log/* | 17:49 |
| ducasse | isn't there a 'details' button in those popups? | 17:49 |
| nacc | tgm4883: right, but presuming they did report and then closed the popup? | 17:49 |
| TJ- | nacc: originally, apport would redirect to bugs.launchpad.net to show the report, but since that was changed to go to errors.ubuntu.com that is no longer done, because LP doesn't get the report | 17:49 |
| nicomachus | I think that's the issue. How do you find it again after you close the popup? | 17:49 |
| * nacc has noted most apport-filed bugs don't get responses when triaged | 17:49 | |
| nacc | (for server) | 17:49 |
| tgm4883 | nacc: well then they could do it next time it pops up | 17:49 |
| nacc | tgm4883: true | 17:49 |
| nicomachus | tgm4883: replication can't be the only solution | 17:50 |
| nacc | tgm4883: but that might end up being a new report (in theory) | 17:50 |
| tgm4883 | nicomachus: why not? | 17:50 |
| nacc | i'm not sure how smart apport is | 17:50 |
| tgm4883 | nacc: nope, apport is pretty smart | 17:50 |
| nacc | TJ-: ah that makes sense (the bugs -> errors change) | 17:50 |
| nacc | tgm4883: oh ok | 17:50 |
| tgm4883 | nacc: errors.ubuntu.com groups them all together | 17:50 |
| nicomachus | tgm4883: because what if you don't know what caused it? there's no log somewhere that just tracks apport? | 17:50 |
| TJ- | dupes are detected usually and grouped | 17:50 |
| tgm4883 | nicomachus: you mean like "apport.log"? | 17:51 |
| nicomachus | oh, yea, that. :D | 17:51 |
| TJ- | /var/log/apport.log should track | 17:51 |
| tgm4883 | I wonder where a log file called apport.log might be :) | 17:51 |
| tgm4883 | -rw-r----- 1 root adm 0 Oct 17 07:35 /var/log/apport.log | 17:51 |
| tgm4883 | Assuming if you have an error, that populates | 17:51 |
| nicomachus | that's what I was looking for. | 17:52 |
| TJ- | tgm4883: I wonder, is it always empty, empty only if reports aren't filed, or contains all crashes even if not reported | 17:52 |
| tgm4883 | TJ-: all of mine are empty | 17:52 |
| tgm4883 | Then again, I don't get those types of errors | 17:52 |
| nicomachus | I have some from today | 17:53 |
| nicomachus | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760722/ | 17:53 |
| nicomachus | never saw a popup for those though. | 17:53 |
| TJ- | nicomachus: are you on 17.10 ? | 17:53 |
| nicomachus | TJ-: no. 16.04 | 17:53 |
| TJ- | nicomachus: right, so not due to the 'we don't report pre-release bugs' then | 17:54 |
| nicomachus | I've been using my laptop for work too much lately to go onto a beta release. | 17:54 |
| TJ- | looks like at some point you may have checked the Ignore button for those "this executable already crashed 2 times, ignoring" | 17:54 |
| nicomachus | possible. I was crashing that program left and right all day yesterday. | 17:55 |
| TJ- | Did foca disappear or has just gone very quiet? | 18:19 |
| nicomachus | he's a bit slow to respond. | 18:20 |
| TJ- | I thought my connection had died | 18:22 |
| daftykins | hehe the most irritating thing about support | 18:23 |
| TJ- | I may have to go, but I'm suspecting 1 of several possibilities. wifi driver issue (dropping frames - famous in iwlwifi - Intel wifi devices), conflicting entries for both /etc/network/interfaces and NetworkManager, or some other service relied upon has been systemctl disable-d by the user. | 18:25 |
| daftykins | oh intel, how far you've fallen | 18:26 |
| nicomachus | :/ | 18:27 |
| TJ- | if it's currently got NM running pastebin the entire /var/log/syslog or better still "journalctl -u NetworkManager.service" | 18:28 |
| nicomachus | TJ-: looks like a realtek driver for the ethernet | 18:34 |
| TJ- | or e1000 - don't know which he's using | 18:35 |
| nicomachus | I've never even seen anything buy iwlwifi for intel | 18:35 |
| nicomachus | what is e1000e | 18:36 |
| nacc | nicomachus: that's the ethernet driver | 18:36 |
| nacc | nicomachus: as opposed to wifi driver | 18:36 |
| nicomachus | I guess I just don't see that many ethernet related issues these days. It's always the wifi driver | 18:36 |
| daftykins | :> | 18:37 |
| TJ- | iwlwifi is the common core for all Intel wifi devices | 18:38 |
| TJ- | e1000e is the Intel wired gigabit ethernet driver | 18:38 |
| nicomachus | that's what I have on my embedded wifi device here. | 18:38 |
| TJ- | iwlmvm usually depends on iwlwifi for most modern chipsets | 18:38 |
| nicomachus | TJ-: you caught that before my SSH connection caught up. :D | 18:53 |
| oerheks | :-) | 19:32 |
| TJ- | Oh no :( Just discovered yet another headache we're going to hit once 17.10 is released, with Wayland compositor as the default. It doesn't/can't support screenshots - not built into the protocol or server/ | 21:00 |
| daftykins | O_O | 21:01 |
| daftykins | how on earth was that looked over? | 21:01 |
| TJ- | well you know... gnome devs, wayland devs, systemd, mostly employed by Red Hat. monoculture, monolithic software. "I don't need it so you can't have it" | 21:02 |
| nacc | TJ-: hrm, i'm running Xwayland and it just took a screenshot with printscreen or the screenshot app | 21:04 |
| nacc | TJ-: is the compositor you mentioned a different component than Xwayland itself? | 21:05 |
| TJ- | Xserver will, but pure Wayland doesn't support it | 21:06 |
| TJ- | I just found out reading commentary by a developer that's created a really neat screenshot capture tool and has no way to support pure Wayland/Weston whatever the implementation is called | 21:07 |
| TJ- | you've got the Xserver in the loop so it's the same as if Wayland compositor weren't there: see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html | 21:09 |
| nacc | TJ-: hrm, how does oen drop Wayland out of the loop? I am on relatively stock 17.10 | 21:11 |
| nacc | err, drop Xserver out of the loop | 21:11 |
| TJ- | I've not investigated that :) | 21:12 |
| nacc | oh | 21:12 |
| nacc | so not really a problem in ubuntu then | 21:12 |
| nacc | :) | 21:12 |
| nacc | (at least for 17.10)? | 21:12 |
| TJ- | From what I've read though, the default is either Wayland+WaylandX, or Wayland with Xserver as an alternative (rather like we had/have upstart or systemd) | 21:13 |
| TJ- | I hope not, but I think it'll rear its head as we move on. I did some reading up on what the chances are and discussions by the devs. It seems the way-off future possibility is a newer compositor called way-cool, with 2 components, a root with clients such as the composer, where a capture tool could plug itself into the pipeline | 21:14 |
| TJ- | My terminology may be way off but basically the current all-in-one design didn't envisage any support for screen capturing | 21:15 |
| nacc | interesting | 21:17 |
| nacc | TJ-: but has an actual Ubuntu user hit that issue? | 21:17 |
| nacc | TJ-: or is it purely an upstream wayland discussion? | 21:17 |
| TJ- | No, I was pointing out we'll start to see that kind of issue in the future when users have the option to drop the Xserver part. So it's useful to have in-mind if a user complains they cannot screenshot this could be the reason (we sometimes ask for screeshots and the bot has a factoid on where to post them) | 21:19 |
| nacc | TJ-: true | 21:20 |
| TJ- | like we used to ask for pastebinit's and not realise the user was on an older release that didn't install it as part of ubuntu-minimal | 21:20 |
| nacc | TJ-: I guess my perspective is for 17.10, that's ont going to be possible in "ubuntu" | 21:20 |
| nacc | the user will have had to done something beyond what is shipped | 21:20 |
| nacc | and maybe it will be solved by 18.04 | 21:20 |
| TJ- | Oh, and they do - you should know that by now :D | 21:21 |
| nacc | TJ-: sure, but i'm happy to note it as unsupported :) | 21:22 |
| * TJ- wipes brow... this is uphill work | 21:46 | |
| nacc | TJ-: i believe linuxlove is an old, now often ignored user | 21:47 |
| nacc | i don't have the ip logs handy, but it seems familiar | 21:47 |
| TJ- | it feels that way :) | 21:50 |
| TJ- | oh gawd, ignoo spamming -devel +1 and . now | 23:39 |
| daftykins | where are the ops when you need 'em?! | 23:40 |
| oerheks | iron maiden, never bought a record of that music | 23:40 |
| oerheks | oh, feel free to report in #ubuntu-ops | 23:40 |
| daftykins | :) | 23:41 |
| oerheks | .. wait | 23:41 |
| oerheks | I love your wordgame, that you need an ops :-D | 23:41 |
| oerheks | unban daftykins please | 23:42 |
| daftykins | XD | 23:42 |
| * TJ- is hiding from linuxlove! | 23:44 | |
| daftykins | Don't fear the Penguin, sir | 23:45 |
| daftykins | oh that's a user? ;) | 23:45 |
| Bashing-om | TJ-: deserves more than a cookie .. pass an apple pie :) | 23:47 |
| TJ- | I've got a freezer still with 2 drawers full of apple pies made last autumn. Trying to eat them up before converting this year's apple crop into more pies | 23:48 |
| daftykins | time to get brewing some cider :) | 23:48 |
| TJ- | daftykins: yeah, been trying to help him decide how to dual-install Windows for what seems like 24 hours but is more like 4 hours. | 23:48 |
| daftykins | sheesh :) | 23:49 |
| TJ- | going round the houses and back to what I said originally, so I'm staying mum now | 23:49 |
| Bashing-om | TJ-: Can the apples this year ! .. Can make up pies on-demand :) | 23:49 |
| TJ- | It's easier to make 200 pies ina single day and freeze them. Did that 2 days last year and had almost 400 in the freezer | 23:51 |
| daftykins | O_O | 23:53 |
| TJ- | yup, that's how my eyes and my tummy look after I've been at them :) | 23:54 |
| Bashing-om | TJ-: Canning: Some one taught me the easy way .. in the cook stove oven ! | 23:54 |
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