[09:34] !isitoutyet [09:34] Nope, it's not out yet. Check back on Thursday! [09:34] ..ohhhh [09:34] what is not out, ubot5 ? [09:35] .. clever marketing === kostkon_ is now known as kostkon [12:09] Good afternoon [12:10] Hey folks [15:22] evening all [17:05] good lord, what a day on #ubuntu... [17:05] mmm? [17:05] do tell :) [17:08] 12:06 < lfowlr> do you even understand it's ouput? [17:08] when nacc asked for a full dmesg [17:08] 12:04 < ironhoof> I am ubuntu 14.04 and after using -reinstall in the package [17:08] manager I now have 2 init, dbus daemons, and 2 upstarts is [17:09] there a way to correct this? [17:09] that's just.... what? how does that even happen? [17:15] that lfowlr character just lost any attention from me by calling someone 'idiot' for the 2nd time [17:17] I just want to get my scrobbling from mpd set up. :( [17:19] librefm works fine. Lastfm? Noooooooo [17:19] mpd <3 [17:19] that's normally my attitude but right now I'm just ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [17:21] like, mpdscribble is trying to create 2 journals at /var/cache/mpdscribble/lastfm.journal and then a pid file at /var/run/mpdscribble.pid but it doesn't have permissions for /var/ [17:22] and then Last.fm is failing at a handshake somewhere. It almost looks like it's trying to POST to turtle.libre.fm but that's the URL for libre.fm. Last.fm should be post.audioscrobbler.com [17:23] WAIT [17:23] I GOT IT [17:23] OMG [17:23] nicomachus: ironhoof could have been on a host that had LXD or Docker container(s) running in which case process list may well show multiple instances [17:23] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [17:31] nacc has a patience I can't match [17:32] nicomachus: ironic, because i'm really impatient these days [17:32] what does that mean for me? lol [17:32] heh [17:33] i just... [17:33] "it's an infamous ubuntu error" [17:33] what [17:40] nacc: I'm just going to start responding to incomplete thoughts with incomplete thoughts [17:41] lol [17:41] :) [17:42] lfowlr is a write-only bot :) [17:42] :D [17:42] Typical young Indian call-centre persona though [17:43] Bangalore [17:44] oh? "answers now"? [17:45] he seems to think he knows a lot, but actually knows very little... [17:45] TJ-: yep [17:47] ducasse: so he's ripping off my entire support style, drat! [17:47] ;D [17:47] The type of person that sees a firetruck and thinks there can only be a fire [17:47] 12:45 < lfowlr> nacc: i don't want your "help" [17:47] well, that's the end of that, I suppose. [17:48] how dare you help someone in a support channel! [17:48] good [17:48] I guess I do wonder if someone was to have reasonably asked "apport reported an issue, how do I find the report it generated, or the bug it filed"? [17:48] Sounded to me like the system failed to shutdown cleanly, maybe neeed a hard power-off. That can cause the empty "Your system crashed" popups at first log-in [17:48] is there a straightforward answer to that? [17:48] I have zero sympathy for people that refuse to actually read what people are telling them [17:48] TJ-: ah that's a good point [17:49] nacc: if apport reports and issue, there's a button for "more info" or something like that I believe [17:49] nacc: I don't know if there's a centralized log of those or not. somewhere between dmesg, syslog, and /var/log/* [17:49] isn't there a 'details' button in those popups? [17:49] tgm4883: right, but presuming they did report and then closed the popup? [17:49] nacc: originally, apport would redirect to bugs.launchpad.net to show the report, but since that was changed to go to errors.ubuntu.com that is no longer done, because LP doesn't get the report [17:49] I think that's the issue. How do you find it again after you close the popup? [17:49] * nacc has noted most apport-filed bugs don't get responses when triaged [17:49] (for server) [17:49] nacc: well then they could do it next time it pops up [17:49] tgm4883: true [17:50] tgm4883: replication can't be the only solution [17:50] tgm4883: but that might end up being a new report (in theory) [17:50] nicomachus: why not? [17:50] i'm not sure how smart apport is [17:50] nacc: nope, apport is pretty smart [17:50] TJ-: ah that makes sense (the bugs -> errors change) [17:50] tgm4883: oh ok [17:50] nacc: errors.ubuntu.com groups them all together [17:50] tgm4883: because what if you don't know what caused it? there's no log somewhere that just tracks apport? [17:50] dupes are detected usually and grouped [17:51] nicomachus: you mean like "apport.log"? [17:51] oh, yea, that. :D [17:51] /var/log/apport.log should track [17:51] I wonder where a log file called apport.log might be :) [17:51] -rw-r----- 1 root adm 0 Oct 17 07:35 /var/log/apport.log [17:51] Assuming if you have an error, that populates [17:52] that's what I was looking for. [17:52] tgm4883: I wonder, is it always empty, empty only if reports aren't filed, or contains all crashes even if not reported [17:52] TJ-: all of mine are empty [17:52] Then again, I don't get those types of errors [17:53] I have some from today [17:53] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760722/ [17:53] never saw a popup for those though. [17:53] nicomachus: are you on 17.10 ? [17:53] TJ-: no. 16.04 [17:54] nicomachus: right, so not due to the 'we don't report pre-release bugs' then [17:54] I've been using my laptop for work too much lately to go onto a beta release. [17:54] looks like at some point you may have checked the Ignore button for those "this executable already crashed 2 times, ignoring" [17:55] possible. I was crashing that program left and right all day yesterday. [18:19] Did foca disappear or has just gone very quiet? [18:20] he's a bit slow to respond. [18:22] I thought my connection had died [18:23] hehe the most irritating thing about support [18:25] I may have to go, but I'm suspecting 1 of several possibilities. wifi driver issue (dropping frames - famous in iwlwifi - Intel wifi devices), conflicting entries for both /etc/network/interfaces and NetworkManager, or some other service relied upon has been systemctl disable-d by the user. [18:26] oh intel, how far you've fallen [18:27] :/ [18:28] if it's currently got NM running pastebin the entire /var/log/syslog or better still "journalctl -u NetworkManager.service" [18:34] TJ-: looks like a realtek driver for the ethernet [18:35] or e1000 - don't know which he's using [18:35] I've never even seen anything buy iwlwifi for intel [18:36] what is e1000e [18:36] nicomachus: that's the ethernet driver [18:36] nicomachus: as opposed to wifi driver [18:36] I guess I just don't see that many ethernet related issues these days. It's always the wifi driver [18:37] :> [18:38] iwlwifi is the common core for all Intel wifi devices [18:38] e1000e is the Intel wired gigabit ethernet driver [18:38] that's what I have on my embedded wifi device here. [18:38] iwlmvm usually depends on iwlwifi for most modern chipsets [18:53] TJ-: you caught that before my SSH connection caught up. :D [19:32] :-) [21:00] Oh no :( Just discovered yet another headache we're going to hit once 17.10 is released, with Wayland compositor as the default. It doesn't/can't support screenshots - not built into the protocol or server/ [21:01] O_O [21:01] how on earth was that looked over? [21:02] well you know... gnome devs, wayland devs, systemd, mostly employed by Red Hat. monoculture, monolithic software. "I don't need it so you can't have it" [21:04] TJ-: hrm, i'm running Xwayland and it just took a screenshot with printscreen or the screenshot app [21:05] TJ-: is the compositor you mentioned a different component than Xwayland itself? [21:06] Xserver will, but pure Wayland doesn't support it [21:07] I just found out reading commentary by a developer that's created a really neat screenshot capture tool and has no way to support pure Wayland/Weston whatever the implementation is called [21:09] you've got the Xserver in the loop so it's the same as if Wayland compositor weren't there: see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html [21:11] TJ-: hrm, how does oen drop Wayland out of the loop? I am on relatively stock 17.10 [21:11] err, drop Xserver out of the loop [21:12] I've not investigated that :) [21:12] oh [21:12] so not really a problem in ubuntu then [21:12] :) [21:12] (at least for 17.10)? [21:13] From what I've read though, the default is either Wayland+WaylandX, or Wayland with Xserver as an alternative (rather like we had/have upstart or systemd) [21:14] I hope not, but I think it'll rear its head as we move on. I did some reading up on what the chances are and discussions by the devs. It seems the way-off future possibility is a newer compositor called way-cool, with 2 components, a root with clients such as the composer, where a capture tool could plug itself into the pipeline [21:15] My terminology may be way off but basically the current all-in-one design didn't envisage any support for screen capturing [21:17] interesting [21:17] TJ-: but has an actual Ubuntu user hit that issue? [21:17] TJ-: or is it purely an upstream wayland discussion? [21:19] No, I was pointing out we'll start to see that kind of issue in the future when users have the option to drop the Xserver part. So it's useful to have in-mind if a user complains they cannot screenshot this could be the reason (we sometimes ask for screeshots and the bot has a factoid on where to post them) [21:20] TJ-: true [21:20] like we used to ask for pastebinit's and not realise the user was on an older release that didn't install it as part of ubuntu-minimal [21:20] TJ-: I guess my perspective is for 17.10, that's ont going to be possible in "ubuntu" [21:20] the user will have had to done something beyond what is shipped [21:20] and maybe it will be solved by 18.04 [21:21] Oh, and they do - you should know that by now :D [21:22] TJ-: sure, but i'm happy to note it as unsupported :) [21:46] * TJ- wipes brow... this is uphill work [21:47] TJ-: i believe linuxlove is an old, now often ignored user [21:47] i don't have the ip logs handy, but it seems familiar [21:50] it feels that way :) [23:39] oh gawd, ignoo spamming -devel +1 and . now [23:40] where are the ops when you need 'em?! [23:40] iron maiden, never bought a record of that music [23:40] oh, feel free to report in #ubuntu-ops [23:41] :) [23:41] .. wait [23:41] I love your wordgame, that you need an ops :-D [23:42] unban daftykins please [23:42] XD [23:44] * TJ- is hiding from linuxlove! [23:45] Don't fear the Penguin, sir [23:45] oh that's a user? ;) [23:47] TJ-: deserves more than a cookie .. pass an apple pie :) [23:48] I've got a freezer still with 2 drawers full of apple pies made last autumn. Trying to eat them up before converting this year's apple crop into more pies [23:48] time to get brewing some cider :) [23:48] daftykins: yeah, been trying to help him decide how to dual-install Windows for what seems like 24 hours but is more like 4 hours. [23:49] sheesh :) [23:49] going round the houses and back to what I said originally, so I'm staying mum now [23:49] TJ-: Can the apples this year ! .. Can make up pies on-demand :) [23:51] It's easier to make 200 pies ina single day and freeze them. Did that 2 days last year and had almost 400 in the freezer [23:53] O_O [23:54] yup, that's how my eyes and my tummy look after I've been at them :) [23:54] TJ-: Canning: Some one taught me the easy way .. in the cook stove oven !