[09:52] Morning peoples, critters and everything else [13:17] Do I want to upgrade to artful today? [13:34] I'm a bit concerned about the printer issue in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes [13:38] oh yuck [13:43] I'm not sure if that will affect me [13:44] And waiting for the systemd folks to decide whose fault it is could take awhile. [13:44] hehe [13:51] * waltman decides to go for it. [13:51] report back with pencil and paper [14:04] jedijf: It's a shame I don't have my ham license! [14:14] waltman: ugh, yeah, got to the end of that printer bug where I see them forward it upstream to systemd /o\ [14:14] I do find them to be responsive to bug reports, just don't always have the answer I want to hear [14:14] waltman: https://tcf.pages.tcnj.edu/ should have a ham cram again [14:16] re Artful, there's apparently an Nvidia issue so I don't plan to upgrade the desktop until 18.04. Laptop booted back into Unity :} [14:17] oh, that would be bad. [14:19] even if I'm using the closed-source driver? [14:19] Not sure, I haven't gone looking for the details, just repeating omgubuntu [14:21] had a migraine yesterday afternoon, so once I got home all I did was take naprosyn and benadryl and collapse [14:24] omgbuntu? [14:25] never mind, just found it. [14:27] Seems like a cool site [14:29] yeah, they and webupd8.org are good sources for ubuntu news [14:29] or webupd8 was, because they haven't had any new posts since August :/ [14:34] Still unpacking packages. [14:44] I haven't even rebooted yet, but someone the install unmapped my capslock->ctrl setting. [14:53] OK, time to reboot. Wish me luck! [14:54] lick! [14:54] s/lick/luck/ [15:12] Printing works. Nvidia driver works. New window manger: will take some getting used to. [15:27] ok good. [15:28] I'm actually used to gnome from having it at work on the Fedora boxen. Had to add some Unity shortcuts (Ctrl-Alt-T) to make it worth using. Did Ubuntu include those by default? [15:31] I somehow had the old desktop setup in a 2x2 grid. Doesn't seem possible now without an extension. [15:32] Oh, the vertical workspace thing. Yeah, I miss that [15:32] You get 3 desktops in a vertical setup. You can't add a 4th without running gnome-tweak-tool. [15:33] Having 3 desktops without any obvious way to add a 4th seems like a terrible design decision to me. [15:33] No, you get additional ones automatically by having a window open on the bottom-most. It adds a blank, cf andriod panels [15:33] Wait, every time you add one on the nth screen, it adds an n+1st? [15:33] But having to scroll vertically is a stupid pita and bad design decision for a desktop [15:33] yes [15:34] I liked my grid! [15:34] I was really confused where that 3rd window came from. [15:34] Yeah, I mean there are four arrow keys for a good reason! [15:35] on macOS I can use ctrl-1, ctrl-2, ctrl-3, etc to switch between desktops. [15:35] oh, I've always used ctrl-alt-arrow [15:35] tor is also broken, but I don't feel like trying to fix that atm. [15:46] Another odd thing. Sometimes when I start an application from the command line, the window appears partially behind my terminal. Is there a setting to have them always appear on top? [15:57] Apparently the only way is to drill down 6 levels in dconf-editor. Is this a joke? [16:06] Say what you want about Unity, but at least for me it mostly stayed out of my way. Gnome seems to actively have it out for me. [17:38] lol opposite world [17:38] i want UNITY back says waltman [17:40] let's see, we have mate, cinnamon.....time for oregano? legacy_unity [17:56] Xubuntu [18:21] I had no strong opinions on unity [18:21] I basically just use my window manager to manage a few terminal windows and chrome. [18:22] I save all my GUI stuff for the mac. On Linux I'm all about the command line. [19:22] I just installed ubuntu a few years ago when Unity was already standard. I'd experimented with gnome and kde a little years ago, but for a long time I'd just used windowmaker debian. [19:23] My only real issue with unity was fonts, but I finally found a solution that worked ok for me. [19:24] 18.04 should be bashful bear [19:25] I posted my issue to the forums, but so far no response. [19:46] Speaking of updates, Apple still hasn't provided one for KRACK on any of its platforms. === jedijf is now known as jedijf[p] === jedijf[p] is now known as jedijf [21:32] Turns out it's a *feature*! https://major.io/2015/07/06/allow-new-windows-to-steal-focus-in-gnome-3/ [21:42] More fun -- I don't have a kvm, so when I wanted to work on my mac this afternoon on the big monitor, I swapped over the keyboard and monitor connection. When I came back just now, it had killed my entire X session! [22:11] waltman: You could use synergy [22:16] Hmm, maybe. Or maybe Gnome could just not kill my entire session. [22:16] That tweak didn't work for me btw, and it's not clear to me how I'm supposed to install third-party extensions. [22:17] Also unclear to me is how much of this mess is stock gnome vs changes ubuntu's made. [22:17] I can verify that on my stock gnome3 if I launch something from the terminal it jumps to front. [22:18] that's on Arch [22:18] for everything? [22:18] I only tried a few things, but I couldn't find an exception [22:18] I tried gedit (a gnome application), spotify, and the qt interface for pass to see if qt vs. gtk made a difference [22:20] what does it say when you run "gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences focus-new-windows"? [22:21] 'smart' [22:21] huh. [22:21] jonathan@demasi:~$ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences focus-new-windows [22:21] 'smart' [22:21] Maybe someone in arch fixed it? [22:22] I changed it from 'smart' to 'strict' at the recommendation of that page, but it didn't help. [22:22] did you log out and back in? [22:22] no. [22:22] Might be a cached setting set at login [22:22] that page said it would take effect immediately. [22:22] also with systemd, logging out has a tendency to kill things [22:23] like my tmux session [22:23] but who knows? it seems like I was logged out when I disconnected my monitor. [22:23] seems like people are reporting issues with more than one display [22:24] do you have just one monitor? [22:24] under unity it never cared if I unplugged my monitor [22:24] Yes. And sometimes I've got 0 monitors plugged in. [22:24] like this afternoon. [22:25] I may very well be switching to a different wm, because I really hate this. [22:25] gnome3's working for me fine when i add/remove an additional display, power on/off add'l display, etc. i'm willing to bet this is an ubuntu thing; one of the reasons i didn't stick with it very long is they tend to overpatch [22:25] i3wm is the way to go [22:26] I don't want tiles. I just want the windows I create to stay where they are, and to be on top and with focus when I create them. [22:27] like every other wm I've ever used in 25+ years of using gui operating systems. [22:28] I mean, I'm sure I could eventually tweak it to a state when I'm ok with it, but the default settings just seem idiotic. [22:28] Anyhow, I need to run out. Sorry for all my whining.