[09:52] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[13:17] <waltman> Do I want to upgrade to artful today?
[13:34] <waltman> I'm a bit concerned about the printer issue in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseNotes
[13:38] <pleia2> oh yuck
[13:43] <waltman> I'm not sure if that will affect me
[13:44] <waltman> And waiting for the systemd folks to decide whose fault it is could take awhile.
[13:44] <pleia2> hehe
[13:51]  * waltman decides to go for it.
[13:51] <jedijf> report back with pencil and paper
[14:04] <waltman> jedijf: It's a shame I don't have my ham license!
[14:14] <pleia2> waltman: ugh, yeah, got to the end of that printer bug where I see them forward it upstream to systemd /o\
[14:14] <pleia2> I do find them to be responsive to bug reports, just don't always have the answer I want to hear
[14:14] <Pennth> waltman: https://tcf.pages.tcnj.edu/ should have a ham cram again
[14:16] <Pennth> re Artful, there's apparently an Nvidia issue so I don't plan to upgrade the desktop until 18.04. Laptop booted back into Unity :}
[14:17] <waltman> oh, that would be bad.
[14:19] <waltman> even if I'm using the closed-source driver?
[14:19] <Pennth> Not sure, I haven't gone looking for the details, just repeating omgubuntu
[14:21] <Pennth> had a migraine yesterday afternoon, so once I got home all I did was take naprosyn and benadryl and collapse
[14:24] <waltman> omgbuntu?
[14:25] <waltman> never mind, just found it.
[14:27] <waltman> Seems like a cool site
[14:29] <Pennth> yeah, they and webupd8.org are good sources for ubuntu news
[14:29] <Pennth> or webupd8 was, because they haven't had any new posts since August :/
[14:34] <waltman> Still unpacking packages.
[14:44] <waltman> I haven't even rebooted yet, but someone the install unmapped my capslock->ctrl setting.
[14:53] <waltman> OK, time to reboot. Wish me luck!
[14:54] <Pennth> lick!
[14:54] <Pennth> s/lick/luck/ <face color="red" />
[15:12] <waltman> Printing works. Nvidia driver works. New window manger: will take some getting used to.
[15:27] <Pennth> ok good.
[15:28] <Pennth> I'm actually used to gnome from having it at work on the Fedora boxen. Had to add some Unity shortcuts (Ctrl-Alt-T) to make it worth using. Did Ubuntu include those by default?
[15:31] <waltman> I somehow had the old desktop setup in a 2x2 grid. Doesn't seem possible now without an extension.
[15:32] <Pennth> Oh, the vertical workspace thing. Yeah, I miss that
[15:32] <waltman> You get 3 desktops in a vertical setup. You can't add a 4th without running gnome-tweak-tool.
[15:33] <waltman> Having 3 desktops without any obvious way to add a 4th seems like a terrible design decision to me.
[15:33] <Pennth> No, you get additional ones automatically by having a window open on the bottom-most. It adds a blank, cf andriod panels
[15:33] <waltman> Wait, every time you add one on the nth screen, it adds an n+1st?
[15:33] <Pennth> But having to scroll vertically is a stupid pita and bad design decision for a desktop
[15:33] <Pennth> yes
[15:34] <waltman> I liked my grid!
[15:34] <waltman> I was really confused where that 3rd window came from.
[15:34] <Pennth> Yeah, I mean there are four arrow keys for a good reason!
[15:35] <waltman> on macOS I can use ctrl-1, ctrl-2, ctrl-3, etc to switch between desktops.
[15:35] <Pennth> oh, I've always used ctrl-alt-arrow
[15:35] <waltman> tor is also broken, but I don't feel like trying to fix that atm.
[15:46] <waltman> Another odd thing. Sometimes when I start an application from the command line, the window appears partially behind my terminal. Is there a setting to have them always appear on top?
[15:57] <waltman> Apparently the only way is to drill down 6 levels in dconf-editor. Is this a joke?
[16:06] <waltman> Say what you want about Unity, but at least for me it mostly stayed out of my way. Gnome seems to actively have it out for me.
[17:38] <jedijf> lol opposite world
[17:38] <jedijf> i want UNITY back says waltman
[17:40] <jedijf> let's see, we have mate, cinnamon.....time for oregano? legacy_unity
[17:56] <teddy-dbear> Xubuntu
[18:21] <waltman> I had no strong opinions on unity
[18:21] <waltman> I basically just use my window manager to manage a few terminal windows and chrome.
[18:22] <waltman> I save all my GUI stuff for the mac. On Linux I'm all about the command line.
[19:22] <waltman> I just installed ubuntu a few years ago when Unity was already standard. I'd experimented with gnome and kde a little years ago, but for a long time I'd just used windowmaker debian.
[19:23] <waltman> My only real issue with unity was fonts, but I finally found a solution that worked ok for me.
[19:24] <waltman> 18.04 should be bashful bear
[19:25] <waltman> I posted my issue to the forums, but so far no response.
[19:46] <waltman> Speaking of updates, Apple still hasn't provided one for KRACK on any of its platforms.
[21:32] <waltman> Turns out it's a *feature*! https://major.io/2015/07/06/allow-new-windows-to-steal-focus-in-gnome-3/
[21:42] <waltman> More fun -- I don't have a kvm, so when I wanted to work on my mac this afternoon on the big monitor, I swapped over the keyboard and monitor connection. When I came back just now, it had killed my entire X session!
[22:11] <jthan> waltman: You could use synergy
[22:16] <waltman> Hmm, maybe. Or maybe Gnome could just not kill my entire session.
[22:16] <waltman> That tweak didn't work for me btw, and it's not clear to me how I'm supposed to install third-party extensions.
[22:17] <waltman> Also unclear to me is how much of this mess is stock gnome vs changes ubuntu's made.
[22:17] <jthan> I can verify that on my stock gnome3 if I launch something from the terminal it jumps to front.
[22:18] <jthan> that's on Arch
[22:18] <waltman> for everything?
[22:18] <jthan> I only tried a few things, but I couldn't find an exception
[22:18] <jthan> I tried gedit (a gnome application), spotify, and the qt interface for pass to see if qt vs. gtk made a difference
[22:20] <waltman> what does it say when you run "gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences focus-new-windows"?
[22:21] <jthan> 'smart'
[22:21] <waltman> huh.
[22:21] <jthan> jonathan@demasi:~$ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences focus-new-windows
[22:21] <jthan> 'smart'
[22:21] <waltman> Maybe someone in arch fixed it?
[22:22] <waltman> I changed it from 'smart' to 'strict' at the recommendation of that page, but it didn't help.
[22:22] <jthan> did you log out and back in?
[22:22] <waltman> no.
[22:22] <jthan> Might be a cached setting set at login
[22:22] <waltman> that page said it would take effect immediately.
[22:22] <waltman> also with systemd, logging out has a tendency to kill things
[22:23] <waltman> like my tmux session
[22:23] <waltman> but who knows? it seems like I was logged out when I disconnected my monitor.
[22:23] <jthan> seems like people are reporting issues with more than one display
[22:24] <jthan> do you have just one monitor?
[22:24] <waltman> under unity it never cared if I unplugged my monitor
[22:24] <waltman> Yes. And sometimes I've got 0 monitors plugged in.
[22:24] <waltman> like this afternoon.
[22:25] <waltman> I may very well be switching to a different wm, because I really hate this.
[22:25] <r00t^2> gnome3's working for me fine when i add/remove an additional display, power on/off add'l display, etc. i'm willing to bet this is an ubuntu thing; one of the reasons i didn't stick with it very long is they tend to overpatch
[22:25] <jthan> i3wm is the way to go
[22:26] <waltman> I don't want tiles. I just want the windows I create to stay where they are, and to be on top and with focus when I create them.
[22:27] <waltman> like every other wm I've ever used in 25+ years of using gui operating systems.
[22:28] <waltman> I mean, I'm sure I could eventually tweak it to a state when I'm ok with it, but the default settings just seem idiotic.
[22:28] <waltman> Anyhow, I need to run out. Sorry for all my whining.