[00:01] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Yes there are several issues with these asus T100* transformerbooks
[00:02] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but X server, wifi and sound worked almost out the box for me
[00:03] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I think I know a fix for your problem. If I'm correct, it's a very common problem with ACPI DSDTs being customised only for Windows by the manufacturers. It's so comon I've written an article about it which contains some shell commands to apply a workaround. Read  http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
[00:05] <dax> 23:41 < TJ-> can we preemptively protect #ubuntu-discuss, if it hasn't been already?
[00:06] <dax> yes, if y'all consider it necessary, but he's not hitting enough of the namespace that i'd assume he's gonna hit here
[00:06] <dax> if it does start up, anyone with an ubuntu/member/* cloak can do: /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-discuss, then /mode #ubuntu-discuss +rq $~a
[00:06] <dax> to do the same thing me and Unit193 have been doing
[00:08] <TJ-> dax: it looked like the spammer might be cycling through all the channels. When they do that the generally hit all channels eventually :)
[00:09] <dax> we'll see. he's stopped for a bit, either out of boredom or because he's getting a fresh batch ready, who knows
[00:09] <Sveta> TJ-: clearly the solution is for you to apply to ubuntu membership :)
[00:10] <dax> +r probably wouldn't be a terrible idea since y'all are pretty much all identified with nickserv, but i'd rather not set it unilaterally just yet
[00:11] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: I also read somewhere about acpi_osi, I'll try your script to see if there are any changes (microSD, suspend, jack detection, auto brightness, etc ..)
[00:14] <TJ-> Sveta: I've avoided that for 12 years; I'm not going to start now
[00:17] <daftykins> he's a maverick! he doesn't always do things the conventional way, but boy does he get the job done ;)
[00:17] <Sveta> TJ-: what are the drawbacks from your perspective?
[00:18] <Sveta> daftykins: :)
[00:18] <TJ-> I prefer being indepedent
[00:18] <Sveta> membership involves a cabal of some sort? or you prefer to not be affiliated with a particular entity, even if these entities do not limit you?
[00:21] <TJ-> I prefer being indepedent
[00:23] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: no improvement with acpi_osi=Windows 2015, but got few more to try :)
[00:25] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: you have got double-quotes surrounding that option haven't you? check with "cat /proc/cmdline"
[00:25] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: without them the option is not correct
[00:26] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I'd generally stick with the latest version the DSDT OSI claims. It'll enable the most functionality. Have you thought of testing a mainline 4.14 release candidate kernel incase there are improvements there?
[00:27] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Nope I didnt try 4.14 and indeed the option is not passed
[00:29] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: OK, let's get acpi_osi fixed first. It fixes so many things
[00:29] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: "pastebinit /etc/default/grub"
[00:30] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="fbcon=rotate:3 acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows 2015\""
[00:31] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: well that is correct! You say it isn't shown by "cat /proc/cmdline"
[00:31] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: did you do "sudo update-grub" before rebooting?
[00:31] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: the script did yes
[00:32] <TJ-> hmm, check it added it to the grub config with "grep acpi_osi= /boot/grub/grub.cfg"
[00:32] <Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820338/
[00:33] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: looks like the grub.cfg doesn't have it.
[00:33] <Drunkhawk91> nope indeed it did not
[00:33] <TJ-> do "sudo update-grub"
[00:34] <TJ-> then "pastebinit <( grep acpi_osi /boot/grub/grub.cfg )"
[00:34] <Drunkhawk91> empty document for pastebinit, no output from grep
[00:34] <Drunkhawk91> he doesn't want to pass the option
[00:35] <TJ-> Hmmm!
[00:35] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: find /boot -type f -name grub.cfg"
[00:36] <TJ-> I'm wondering if yours is in the EFI SP under /boot/efi/
[00:36] <Drunkhawk91> /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg
[00:36] <Drunkhawk91> /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[00:36] <TJ-> Hmmm, so, "grep -n acpi_osi /boot/grub/grub.cfg /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg"
[00:37] <Drunkhawk91> nowhere
[00:38] <TJ-> when you run update-grub do you see it list a bunch of kernel versions etc it's adding?
[00:39] <TJ-> In your fiddling about to get the initrd to include the DSDT is it possible you've broken the generating scripts in /etc/grub.d/ ?
[00:40] <Drunkhawk91> he found /boot/vmlinuz-4.13.0-16-generic boot/initrd.img-4.13.0-16-generic and added two boot menu entry for EFI firmware conf
[00:40] <TJ-> I think I recall seeing mention of /etc/grub.d/05_acpi or some-such.
[00:40] <TJ-> oh, hang on. Is this Secure Boot?
[00:40] <Drunkhawk91> I remove xx_acpi from grub.d
[00:41] <Drunkhawk91> I got secure boot disabled in BIOS
[00:42] <TJ-> but you're using the -signed files. I *think* the problem could be that grub.cfg has to also be signed to be used
[00:43] <TJ-> I'm not sure if GRUB drops that requirement if SB is disabled but you're using the signed version
[00:43] <Drunkhawk91> it's strange because i add the option fbcon=rotate:3 and it appears in cat /proc/cmdline
[00:44] <Drunkhawk91> I added it manually in /etc/default/grub
[00:44] <TJ-> yes, that is very strange
[00:46] <TJ-> right, let's be silly. Edit /etc/default/grub yourself, add "debug" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX  *after* the acpi_osi settings, do "sudo update-grub", and then see if that was added with "grep -n debug /boot/grub/grub.cfg /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg"
[00:49] <Drunkhawk91> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="fbcon=rotate:3 acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows 2015\" debug"
[00:49] <Drunkhawk91> no debug either
[00:50] <Drunkhawk91> this line must be wrong
[00:51] <TJ-> there must be something in the /etc/grub.d/ scripts failing to copy the value correctly for some reason. I've never come across this before
[00:52] <Drunkhawk91> I don't remember having modify any script except adding xx_acpi (removed now)
[00:53] <Drunkhawk91> I'll try remove my fbcon=rotate:3 and update to see
[00:54] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: before you do that... show us "pastebinit <( grep GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX /etc/grub.d/* )"
[00:54] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I want to check if there's any code referring to that variable that shouldn't be there
[00:54] <Drunkhawk91> Even if I comment the whole line it doesn't update correctly
[00:55] <Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820418/
[00:55] <TJ-> the scripts in /etc/grub.d - 10_linux specifically, use that
[00:55] <TJ-> errr... you're missing 10_linux!
[00:56] <Drunkhawk91> i got 10_linux_proxy
[00:56] <TJ-> is this ubuntu 17.10 ?
[00:56] <Drunkhawk91> yes
[00:57] <TJ-> Not sure where that came from but I cannot find it in any package in 17.10
[00:58] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: what does "apt list grub-common" report
[00:58] <Drunkhawk91> grub-common/artful,now 2.02~beta3-4ubuntu7 amd64  [installé]
[01:01] <TJ-> this is the list of files in that package: note 10_linux, and no 10_linux_proxy. You've changed something on there at some point, which means grub can no longer generate its config.  https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/amd64/grub-common/filelist
[01:02] <TJ-> hmmm, does "grub_customizer" ring any bells?
[01:03] <Drunkhawk91> yes!
[01:03] <TJ-> Grrrr
[01:05] <TJ-> do you see anything like this (bug report for customizer) https://bugs.launchpad.net/grub-customizer/+bug/1518495
[01:05] <Drunkhawk91> I will ban this kind of package, I knew it could be a bad idea
[01:05] <TJ-> :) please do, it makes our job 10x harder
[01:10] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: nope no errors
[01:12] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: well, you need to figure out where installing grub_customizer moved your 10_linux too, and get it back. Try removing grub_customizer and if 10_linux doesn't reappear do "sudo apt-get --reinstall install grub-common"
[01:27] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-:had a backup folder in /etc/grub.d/ with all grub.d/ scripts, /boot/grub/ and /etc/default/grub
[01:27] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: aha!
[01:27] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: should i manually remove all the _proxy scripts?
[01:28] <TJ-> If grub_customizer was installed using apt I'd use that to *purge* it too
[01:28] <TJ-> else you'll get the system in a mess
[01:31] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: it didn't clean /etc/grub.d/
[01:32] <TJ-> Drunkhawk91: crap package!
[01:32] <TJ-> you'll have to remove all those weird bits, then to be sure "sudo apt-get --reinstall install grub-common"
[01:52] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: it was a mess, it didn't want to update-grub but I reinstalled grub properly
[01:52] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: I have acpi passed to /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[01:52] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: rebooting
[01:59] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: still no improvements ACPI Error: 3 table load failures, 8 successful (20170531/tbxfload-246)
[02:00] <TJ-> is acpi_osi showing up in /proc/cmdline now
[02:00] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but my dumb grub mistakes are solved, thank you for that :)
[02:00] <Drunkhawk91> yes
[02:00] <TJ-> :)
[02:00] <TJ-> how's the SD card reader?
[02:00] <Drunkhawk91> no detection
[02:00] <TJ-> Hmmmph
[02:01] <Drunkhawk91> mmc2: card never left busy state
[02:01] <Drunkhawk91> had these errors before using modified DSDT too
[02:02] <TJ-> sounds more likely the linux driver for that chip isn't complete then
[02:02] <TJ-> show us another "pastebinit <( dmesg )"
[02:03] <Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820670/
[02:04] <TJ-> does the card work in other devices?
[02:04] <Drunkhawk91> yes
[02:05] <TJ-> it looks, from my searches, that this could be a kernel regression sometime in the last 5 months or so, judging by other reports
[02:05] <Drunkhawk91> hmm i have a doubt now, it worked on my phone but never worked on this computer (in windows 10)
[02:07] <TJ-> The commit description in this seems to offer an explanation of what might be happening https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fa.linux.kernel/7MsrntjpRnM
[02:12] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-:maybe that's why some users use patched kernels for all this laptop issues https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1700679#p1700679
[02:14] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but far too hard for me, I'll learn more about kernels and patches before doing anything stupid
[02:15] <TJ-> have you tested suspend/resume now you have acpi_osi set? that is one of many things that setting should fix
[02:16] <Drunkhawk91> yes, it can suspend but wifi disabled (no more wlan0) when resume
[02:17] <TJ-> check /var/log/syslog for clues on that
[02:19] <TJ-> Volker mentioning CONFIG_PMIC_OPREGION in the last post in that thread rather confirms what I thought from that patch I referenced - PMIC is Power Management Integrated Circuit.
[02:20] <TJ-> so it looks like the IC maker hasn't published the datasheet for that IC and the driver writers are having to guess
[02:21] <Drunkhawk91> best option seems to wait calmly so
[02:22] <Drunkhawk91> at least I got wifi, touchpad, touchscreen, audio (speakers only) and X working
[02:27] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Anyway, thanks a lot for your time and help! Learn many things today :)
[02:28] <TJ-> hang on!
[02:28] <TJ-> I'm reading the DSDT and I just spotted a possible reason
[02:29] <TJ-> line 8989... the behaviour of  SDHC depends on the value of OSID. I suspect that is set based on the OSI
[02:30] <Drunkhawk91> can we know the expected OSI value or we have to try them all?
[02:32] <TJ-> line 16086 has the INIt() function, there you'll see how the OSI name affects the value it sets in OSYS, and you'll see how the highest value is set for the latest version of Windows
[02:32] <TJ-> if we can correlate whether OSID gets set based on an OSYS value we can figure out which path that code will be taking, and possibly change the OSI to make it take the other path
[02:38] <TJ-> Can't see anything setting that value, only testing it.
[02:38] <TJ-> must be set from somewhere else
[02:39] <TJ-> OSID looks like it could be a bit flag because I only see tests for values 1 2 4 8
[02:45] <TJ-> I'm convinced that's it. If you read the SDHC's ABUF and WBUF resources you'll see they are quite different
[02:46] <TJ-> different GPIO pin lists
[02:46] <TJ-> and _CRS() returns one or the other based on OSID
[02:48] <Drunkhawk91> other T100* users are using acpi_osi command line option
[02:48] <Drunkhawk91> with Windows2012 as osi name
[02:48] <Drunkhawk91> https://github.com/jonpry/t100_patches
[02:49] <Drunkhawk91> but it might not be the same exact model
[02:54] <TJ-> right. you could try it, but if they've coded Windows 2015 in it and we can see it sets the highest value of OSYS that will almost always means the most functions are enabled
[02:54] <TJ-> And I've read hundreds of DSDTs; I used to specialise on the ACPI code in the kernel about 10 years ago
[03:01] <TJ-> From my brief reading of the DSDT it looks to me like the wrong PMIC setup is being run, and possibly the wrong GPIO settings (via the ABUF/WBUF configs)
[03:01] <TJ-> I have to go now, it's past 4am!
[03:01] <TJ-> I've got a T300CHI here but not had any problems with it
[03:03] <Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Have a good night and thank you again for everything!
[04:21] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:24] <lotuspsychje> hows the night been Bashing-om
[04:24] <lotuspsychje> artful rush already over?
[04:45] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. been slow over all . a couple of interesting posts though . Yaeh the initial shock is wearing off on artful :)
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> kk
[06:06] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:14] <ducasse> morning all
[06:16] <Bashing-om> ducasse: WB :)
[06:17] <lordievader> Hey ducasse , Bashing-om
[06:18] <lordievader> How are you guys?
[06:19] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: As I am on irc .. can not be too bad :) You got a big day planned ?
[06:20] <lordievader> Some meetings, not much more ;)
[06:22] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Personal interaction .. can be a good thing - make a good day .
[06:23] <ducasse> hiya lordievader, Bashing-om - how are you guys today?
[06:23] <lordievader> Doing good here, ducasse :)
[06:25] <ducasse> incredibly foggy here, the world outside is just a grey blur
[06:26] <lordievader> Good reason to keep the curtains closed ;)
[06:26] <Bashing-om> ducasse: All the more reason to irc :)
[06:34] <ducasse> Bashing-om: yep, i'm certainly staying inside, at least :)
[06:36] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Fur Baby does not want to get the paws wet anyway .
[06:38] <ducasse> Bashing-om: mine neither. just as well, being grey she would just disappear in the fog, worrisome if she wanders onto the road
[06:45] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Perish the thought !
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & lordievader
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: cool :p https://akademy.kde.org/sites/akademy.kde.org/files/2016/akademy2016-tshirt.png
[06:53] <lordievader> :)
[06:53] <lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
[06:53] <jink> 'sup, kids? :)
[06:53] <lotuspsychje> yow daddy
[06:53] <ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje
[06:53] <jink> Heh.
[06:53] <ducasse> \o jink
[06:53] <jink> o/ ducasse
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> !beaver
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> yayyyy
[06:56] <EriC^^> morning all
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[06:56] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[06:56] <EriC^^> how's it going?
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> the next LTS to bug out
[06:57] <lotuspsychje> great here mate bout you EriC^^ ?
[06:57] <dax> hey look we got a release schedule
[06:57] <EriC^^> doing good, just woke up
[06:57] <lotuspsychje> dax: where?
[06:57] <EriC^^> bionic beaver, nice :D
[06:58] <dax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseSchedule (and #u+1 topic)
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> ah tnx mate
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> lets autojoin again
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> dax: at wich step, daily images will be available?
[07:00] <dax> when the toolchain gets uploaded they'll start generating and getting put in pending. if it's like last cycle, we'll then be waiting a few days for all the autotest failures to get fixed, and then it'll get moved to current and linked in +1
[07:00] <lotuspsychje> cool
[07:01] <dax> (pending and current referring to the subfolders of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ )
[07:05] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-dubbed-as-the-bionic-beaver-launches-april-26-2018-518186.shtml
[07:08] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: is the build-essential stuff also on the iso?
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: i think all is there, to make a working broadcom with the restricted-extras
[07:09] <ducasse> sounds reasonable
[07:09] <lotuspsychje> !info build-essential
[07:09] <lotuspsychje> optional hmm
[07:09] <dax> the package list for the livecds is at e.g. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/artful-desktop-amd64.manifest
[07:10] <ducasse> ah, brilliant - thanks
[07:11] <ducasse> nah, no build stuff
[07:12] <dax> gcc's in there. build-essential isn't.
[07:12] <lotuspsychje> ah
[07:12] <dax> i assume there's some other place to get that list, i don't see it in the folder for the final release isos
[07:12] <ducasse> i only looked for build-essential and make
[07:12] <dax> i think someone pointed me at it once but no idea where it was :)
[07:27] <lotuspsychje> nite nite Bashing-om
[07:29] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Good nite lotuspsychje and all .. take care see yall on the flip :)
[07:29] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: https://www.deviantart.com/art/i3-on-Manjaro-Oct-2017-711589839
[07:32] <dax> oh, there are .manifests in the final release folders, i must have scrolled past them :\
[07:35] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: not to my taste, but... :)
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> bbl work guys :p
[07:43] <ducasse> dax: the manifest should include all packages on the iso, right? i'm a bit confused here...
[10:13] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[10:17] <EriC^^> heya BluesKaj
[10:17] <EriC^^> o/
[10:18] <BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^    \o
[11:59] <BluesKaj> ok Bionic Beaver chainloader is in the repos
[15:36] <nicomachus> I'm really not a fan of gnome requiring me to go to a website to update my extensions.
[15:37] <nicomachus> And the popups that say "This extension is out of date" or whatever won't open the link in Firefox. It has to be in done in Chromium AFAICT
[15:38] <oerheks> huh? i usually ignore those messages ..
[15:39] <nicomachus> then your gnome extensions are out of date. lol
[15:39] <oerheks> "your flash is out of date, jaba jaba"
[15:39] <nicomachus> no, not flash. gnome extensions.
[15:39] <nicomachus> extensions.gnome.org
[15:39] <nacc> yeah
[15:40] <nacc> nicomachus: i *think* it's hard to do anything else though
[15:40] <nacc> nicomachus: i guess they could be snaps
[15:40] <oerheks> oh.. is this new in 17.10?
[15:40] <nacc> but that's still an open feature
[15:40] <nacc> oerheks: it's a gnome thing
[15:40] <nacc> the distro ships some extensions (iirc)
[15:40] <nicomachus> oh, now I see why it didn't work with firefox. I forgot you have to have a stupid BROWSER EXTENSION to do it. which I installed in Chromium but not Firefox.
[15:40] <nacc> but the SRU process gates those packages getting updated
[15:40] <nicomachus> nacc: there *has* to be a better way.
[15:40] <nacc> and the upstream updates are usually not bugfixes
[15:40] <nacc> they are new versions
[15:40] <nacc> nicomachus: don't run gnome?
[15:41] <nacc> much like ... everything .. gnome wants their own flow to all distros
[15:41] <nacc> just like go and go-get
[15:41] <nicomachus> nacc: ha, I guess that's a solution
[15:41] <nacc> or python and pypi
[15:41] <nacc> everybody does this meta-distribution stuff these days
[15:41] <nacc> which makes being a distro *really* hard
[15:41] <nicomachus> I've gotten to like gnome though. as much as my rice/unixporn friends talk crap all day.
[15:42] <nacc> nicomachus: yeah, the UX is overall pretty nice
[15:43] <nicomachus> after I spent some time on it. haha
[15:43] <nacc> yeah
[15:43] <nicomachus> stock gnome isn't so great. gnome with a few key extensions and tweaks is excellent.
[15:45] <nacc> nicomachus: yep
[15:45] <nacc> nicomachus: but that you can have a tweakable stock everywhere is good, imo
[15:45] <nacc> nicomachus: ship a good base, let users do stuff to do it locally
[15:54] <nicomachus> nacc: I can agree with that.
[15:55] <nacc> nicomachus: esp. for 17.10
[15:55] <nacc> nicomachus: i expect we'll see, hopefully, a bit more of a default tweaked experience in 18.04
[15:55] <nacc> the big thing for 17.10 was just gettig folks migrated successfully, i think
[16:09] <nicomachus> I'm still on 16.04
[16:09] <nacc> nicomachus: ah gnome ubuntu?
[16:09] <oerheks> 17.04 here .. my unity
[16:09] <nicomachus> but switched over to Gnome about 6 months ago
[16:10] <nacc> oerheks: when do you plan to upgrade?
[16:10] <nicomachus> because I knew it was coming, so figured I might as well jump in.
[16:10] <nacc> nicomachus: tbh, i saw this coming a while ago and jus tinstalled gnome ubuntu from the get go :)
[16:10] <oerheks> nacc, not, i will prepare an other machine to get known to gnome3
[16:10] <nacc> oerheks: ah ok :)
[16:10] <oerheks> somehow i refuse to upgrade
[16:10] <nicomachus> I just installed the gnome-desktop package or whatever it was.
[16:10] <nacc> nicomachus: yeah
[16:11] <oerheks> when i read about systemd hardening ...
[16:12] <oerheks> example: https://github.com/konstruktoid/hardening/blob/master/systemd.adoc
[16:12] <oerheks> highly interesting
[16:20] <nicomachus> my new moto x4 has some cool gesture controls. You can just wave your hand over the locked phone to have it show the lock screen and any notifications. I can't figure out how to get more gesture controls, though.
[16:20] <nicomachus> there must be a way to add more functionality to that...
[16:21] <TJ-> The implication being the camera is always watching you?
[16:22] <nacc> TJ-: :)
[16:23] <nacc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsntlJZ9h1U
[16:24] <nacc> the anthem of an older and newer generation (the latter just don't know it)
[16:24] <TJ-> what's that?
[16:25] <nacc> Private Eyes by Hall & Oates
[16:25] <nacc> "Private Eyes ... are watching you"
[16:25] <nacc> "they see your every move"
[16:26] <TJ-> Ahhh. I don't touch youtube and I find videos very wasteful of bandwidth and low on information content :)
[16:26] <TJ-> To me, a few words speak a thousand pictures :)
[16:26] <nacc> TJ-: :)
[16:26] <nacc> if i had a better way to make a song play on your system, i'd use it :)
[16:27] <TJ-> You managed it ina few words :)
[16:28] <TJ-> Trouble is, they're not private eyes in the threat sense... they're potential passing the data over the network to some entity where you have no control of what happens to it.
[16:28] <nacc> yep
[16:28] <nacc> and they presumably are also storing it
[16:29] <nacc> which means there is biometric-esque data somewher in the cloud
[16:29] <TJ-> You have to assume that
[16:31] <TJ-> slightly off-topic, but on my Android-based (LineageOS) PDAs (I refuse to call them 'smart' or 'phones'!) I have AFWall+, Android Firewall installed. I only allow applications I know require network access. I also have it pop-up 'toast' notications whenever it blocks access. That is *very* revealing the extent of un-necessary network access by so many applications.
[16:31] <nacc> TJ-: interesting!
[16:31] <TJ-> We have open-source, we need the same for open-data - as in, we, the user/owner, are in control of it
[16:34] <TJ-> Back in the late '90s I proposed one of my inventions/devlopments to the UK government - a nationwide federated identity scheme which had the subject in total control of who could access which aspects of the data stored on them (using cryptography, timed/count based access, and so forth). Unfortunately it never got anywhere because there was no foresight. The last few years we've finally got something
[16:35] <TJ-> like it with federated ID checks, but it's opaque to the subjects and they have no control over the data held on them
[16:37] <TJ-> I had written the entire thing so it was a real/live demonstration. The techies could see the benefits but the bearuacrats stymied the whole thing. I had the feeling then it was partially due to those in power not wanting to give control to the citizens. Since then that feeling has become reality in almost every country. Sleepwalking into the scenario in Orwell's '1984'
[17:19] <nicomachus> daftykins: this makes it all worth it: https://i.imgur.com/ZEIf3Y3.png
[17:23] <daftykins> nicomachus: heh, i don't see it the same way
[17:24] <MYounis> Hello everyone!
[17:24] <MYounis> Is greig and Fallen here? I treid making the Live Pendrive with Ubuntu as per the turorial on Ubuntu's site. Also tried setting nomodeset in boot. and also in grub file in live pendrive.
[17:24] <MYounis> Still the laptop stucks at the black screen after grub.
[17:25] <daftykins> as you can see the topic states this is not a support channel, so queries in #ubuntu please
[17:26] <MYounis> daftykins I think something is messed up there too.
[17:26] <MYounis> I don't see any users there
[17:27] <nicomachus> MYounis: there's over 1000 people there.
[17:27] <nicomachus> MYounis: /join #ubuntu
[17:27] <dax> they're not identified to nickserv and #ubuntu is +r
[17:28] <dax> !register
[17:28] <dax> or see the multiple messages in the -unregged channel you ended up in.
[17:28]  * nicomachus wonders why this channel isn't +r tbh
[17:29] <dax> nicomachus: because it isn't getting spam attacks and nobody with access to it (which is all cloaked ubuntu members plus some people) is sufficiently convinced/motivated to do it pre-emptively
[17:30] <MYounis> Ok thanks.
[17:34] <dax> MYounis: (you can also ask in #freenode (or probably also in here)) if you have questions, I'm about to wander off so -unregged probably won't be much help
[17:38] <MYounis> thanks dax
[19:42] <nicomachus> I've been using this phone pretty much ALL day and it's at 48% battery. :D
[19:42] <nicomachus> 3h 0m 12s of screen time
[19:43] <nicomachus> 1h 6m 8s of Pokemon GO (high battery usage), which includes 31m 43s of GPS usage
[19:46] <oerheks> i am seriously afraid of pokemon .. Poke-Phobia
[19:46] <oerheks> :-D
[19:46] <oerheks> no, i suffer Chrometophobia
[19:47] <nicomachus> it's a good time
[19:48] <oerheks> There is always someone who helps me with that, thanks.