[00:34] <Kamilion> agaida: is that an amlogic board?
[00:35] <agaida> nvidia jetson tk1
[00:36] <agaida> https://pb.5id.eu/2EwA
[00:39] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: For what it's worth, this is my first *full* release as Release Manager :)
[00:39] <tsimonq2> wxl threw me in 1.5 months before 17.04 so I just kinda had to release with what we had.
[00:40] <tsimonq2> And I'm really happy about 17.10 because I worked hard on enhancing the LXQt "edition" and doing bugfixes all around. Now I also have MOTU so 18.04 should be even better so I don't have to wait for my usual Italian (meaning, not the same timezone...) sponsors :)
[00:42] <tsimonq2> I'll have to have a conversation with gilir about doing a Backports PPA of sorts, I'm also a Kubuntu developer so it might follow that style with some enhancements ;)
[00:43] <Kamilion> tsimonq2: dude, I'm not complaining, I was simply pointing out you were inexperienced at that time.
[00:43] <Kamilion> you've gained a lot of skill since then.
[00:44] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: I know, and I appreciate it ;)
[00:44] <Kamilion> Repetition is the key to learning; and you've been repeating stuff left and right ;)
[00:44] <tsimonq2> hehehehe :)
[00:44] <Kamilion> how do you think I learned Linux From Scratch?
[00:44] <Kamilion> Kept on trying till I ran out of cake.
[00:44] <tsimonq2> A case of <energy drinks> and a weekend? :P
[00:45] <tsimonq2> Oh, gotcha... right... :P :)
[00:45] <Kamilion> try 1998 through 2003 *grin*
[00:45] <tsimonq2> :D
[00:45] <Kamilion> but I STILL know './configure; make; make install' from repeating it SO MANY TIMES on LFS...
[00:46] <Kamilion> Anyway; yeah, it'd be nice if the lxqt PPA got a fresher set of packages for xenial
[00:46] <tsimonq2> I want to be collaborative with gilir so I'll run it by him.
[00:46] <Kamilion> It's a PPA; so "if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces" applies; I'm probably one of the few people even using it.
[00:47] <Kamilion> worst case you can always pop a fresh ppa
[00:47] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[00:47] <Kamilion> if it's too much work, can it. I'll wait for bionic.
[00:47] <Kamilion> if it just works; that makes me happeh.
[00:47] <Kamilion> cause then I don't have to drop my ISO builder VM
[00:48] <tsimonq2> One thing I'm considering is to just wholesale backport Qt 5.9.2 and LXQt 0.12 once everything gets violently kicked down *AHEM* I mean nicely synced from Debian :)
[00:48] <Kamilion> also, the whole reason I didn't release with lxqt for xenial was that darn desktop bug
[00:48] <Kamilion> you saw the screenshots?
[00:48] <tsimonq2> It shouldn't be *too* much work. qtdeclarative has an ABI bump but not much should go wrong...
[00:48] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: Which?
[00:48] <Kamilion> [16:21:27] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/y80bD/155caf7847.png
[00:48] <Kamilion> [16:21:43] <Kamilion> vs http://puu.sh/y7ZUw/21ccb570a5.png
[00:49] <Kamilion> that's 0.10.0 on xenial
[00:49] <Kamilion> doesn't wanna resize the root window when the desktop geometry changes.
[00:49] <Kamilion> 0.11 and 0.12, I havn't seen the issue, so it's been fixed somewhere, somewhen
[00:49] <tsimonq2> O__o
[00:49] <Kamilion> and it's the only thing that really sticks out.
[00:49] <tsimonq2> Interesting...
[00:49] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[00:50] <tsimonq2> All fine here
[00:50] <Kamilion> yeah. Go grab VMWare workstation 14 sometime -- it's free now.
[00:50] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: If you can bisect the commit I'll be happy to get it SRUed in...
[00:50] <tsimonq2> Meh, I'm happy with QEMU ;)
[00:50] <Kamilion> https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-pro.html
[00:50] <Kamilion> doesn't matter what you're happy with
[00:50] <Kamilion> you have to test, still!
[00:50] <tsimonq2> Oh
[00:50] <tsimonq2> True
[00:50] <Kamilion> vmware and vbox are the only non-qemu virtualizers that really 'count'
[00:51] <Kamilion> microsoft will deal with hyper-v, that's their problem
[00:51] <Kamilion> and it all works fine in xen and kvm
[00:51] <Kamilion> (which are both qemu-dm based)
[00:51] <Kamilion> but yeah, you should keep a copy of vbox and vmware workstation *(NOT PRO!) around and fire the ISO up once a month
[00:52] <Kamilion> half the artful ISOs had video corruption in vbox
[00:52] <Kamilion> also, the package to get the external resize to work is 'open-vm-tools-desktop'
[00:53] <Kamilion> there's also open-vm-tools but it wants to pull in dkms for the old vmware shared folders (which isn't needed anymore)
[00:53] <Kamilion> Workstation pro is the pay-for version now; they split it about a year ago
[00:53] <Kamilion> "VMWare Player" is dead, it's now "VMWare Workstation", and "VMWare Workstation Pro" if you want remote connections to ESXi
[00:54] <Kamilion> I have to have pro cause I'm managing ESXi VMs at work
[00:56] <Kamilion> one thing that's super nice though, is the new ESXi Embeddeed Host Client, available from https://labs.vmware.com/flings/esxi-embedded-host-client
[00:56] <tsimonq2> Sure
[00:56] <Kamilion> install it in ESXi, and you get a HTML5 console
[00:56] <Kamilion> no client software needed. \o/
[00:56] <tsimonq2> I don't know much about VM solutions to be honest :)
[00:57] <Kamilion> yeah, it's not lubuntu's target at all
[00:57] <tsimonq2> I know there's QEMU, VBox, Some weird thing GNOME did, and VMsomethingorother
[00:57] <Kamilion> vbox is still qemu based
[00:57] <Kamilion> they use a fork of some kind though
[00:57] <Kamilion> and there's a lot more too
[00:57] <Kamilion> like bochs
[00:57] <Kamilion> but bochs is a legit x86 emulator; not a virtualizor
[00:58] <Kamilion> (virtualizors/hypervisors use hardware features to switch contexts, it can be done in software too (like we used to) but it's slow
[00:58] <Kamilion> qemu can also do software emulation
[00:59] <Kamilion> but if it sees the kvm kernel module loaded, it will prefer to use it over the software (as long as the guest's CPU arch matches the host's, otherwise if you're like, trying to run a MIPS or ARM on an intel box, it'll use software anyway.)
[00:59] <Kamilion> Xen is even more weird; cause it starts up before the kernel does
[01:00] <Kamilion> and then Xen hands it a bunch of PCI devices to manage (including the video adapter) and disappears into the ether; never to be spoken directly to again.
[01:00] <Kamilion> from then on, everything is managed from that first linux kernel to start
[01:01] <Kamilion> the 'domain 0'
[01:01] <Kamilion> hyper-v is similar
[01:01] <Kamilion> then there's all the container stuff
[01:01] <Kamilion> most of that runs under a single kernel image but uses newer linux namespacing features to slice things up
[01:03] <tsimonq2> Huh
[01:03] <tsimonq2> Interesting
[01:07] <Kamilion> i've been messing around with Xen for years
[01:07] <Kamilion> it's what I built into the kamikazi lubuntu ISOs
[01:07] <tsimonq2> Oh cool
[01:07] <Kamilion> well, it's got kvm and lxc too...
[01:08] <Kamilion> turned out qemu-kvm (the package) only added an extra 150KB (cause xen already brought in most of the other qemu stuff)
[01:08] <Kamilion> libvirt will deal with all of them (just not at once)
[01:08] <Kamilion> so I included that too.
[01:09] <Kamilion> the only problem there is, if libvirt notices Xen, it will take over management for it (and then you can't use xen's commandline tools like xl)
[01:09] <Kamilion> so i told systemd to disable it
[01:09] <Kamilion> before rolling the ISO
[01:10] <Kamilion> packages are there; just needs 'systemd enable libvirt-bin' or something like that
[01:10] <Kamilion> er, no, doesn't need to be enabled; just needs to be started. My bad.
[01:10] <Kamilion> oh -- that reminds me.
[01:12] <agaida> and only for the records - i guess that upstream don't test vmware - we are sane people
[01:12] <tsimonq2> hehehehehehehehehehe
[01:12] <Kamilion> "sane people"?
[01:12] <agaida> belive it or not
[01:12] <Kamilion> I must be missing some context there
[01:14] <agaida> Kamilion: if LXQt don't work on vmware - i guess we accept patches, but we will likely not spend an hour on it
[01:14]  * Kamilion tilts head
[01:14] <Kamilion> huh?
[01:14] <agaida> your problem with the ancient lxqt on vmware - your screenshot
[01:15] <Kamilion> There's nothing wrong with xserver-xorg-video-*
[01:15] <Kamilion> xserver-xorg-video-vmware works absolutely fine.
[01:15] <Kamilion> It has been doing so since 12.10
[01:16] <Kamilion> the bug is in LXQT, anything that resizes the xserver geometry.
[01:17] <Kamilion> The easiest way to trigger it is using vmware's "fit guest to window" but there's plenty of other ways
[01:17] <agaida> ok, so you are a LXQt dev? Fine, no clue about - but the problem is not in LXQt - it might be fixed in Qt 5.9
[01:17] <agaida> or not - we will see
[01:17] <Kamilion> including on real hardware -- Nuvoton wpcm450 bmcs will do the same thing.
[01:18] <Kamilion> Wow. Talk about not listening.
[01:18] <Kamilion> It's already been fixed, agaida.
[01:18] <Kamilion> but packages were never re-released for LTS.
[01:19] <Kamilion> Regressions are unacceptable.
[01:19] <agaida> downstream decision - and a sane one - it would be insane to port all the needed things back
[01:20] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/y84KF/a2a2b5ba3f.png
[01:20] <Kamilion> Artful has no problems with any geometry.
[01:20] <Kamilion> But artful is not an LTS release
[01:20] <Kamilion> and I only use LTS releases for my Xen ISOs.
[01:20] <agaida> right - and 0.11.(1,2) is the first version in debian/stable for a reason
[01:21] <agaida> i praised god that 0.10.0 dont go in
[01:21] <Kamilion> huh? I didn't say anything about debian
[01:21] <Kamilion> ... what do they even have to do with anything?
[01:21] <agaida> have a look at the packaging
[01:21] <Kamilion> as far as I knew, lxqt was coming from the lubuntu folks
[01:21] <agaida> and into the changelogs
[01:21] <agaida> hihihi- good joke
[01:22] <Kamilion> joke?
[01:22] <Kamilion> I'm not kidding.
[01:22] <Kamilion> it first appeared in canonical's PPAs, then canonical repos.
[01:22] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: agaida is the Debian maintainer for LXQt.
[01:22] <tsimonq2> It was in Debian first.
[01:22] <tsimonq2> :)
[01:22] <Kamilion> I didn't even know there were debian packages available.
[01:22] <tsimonq2> Now you do. :P
[01:23] <Kamilion> tsimonq2: "it was in debian first", "we didn't release 0.10.0 in debian", "look at my 0.10.0 screenshots and the brokeness"
[01:23] <agaida> and the guy who throw his packaging 2015 at Debconf into debian - that was the first packages
[01:23] <Kamilion> so then how was it in debian first if 0.10.0 wasn't there, and my screenshots are of 0.10.0 on ubuntu 16.04?
[01:24] <Kamilion> or are you just talking about building .debs?
[01:24] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: Debian Sid =/ Debian Stable
[01:24] <Kamilion> that means very little to me.
[01:25] <tsimonq2> My point is, LXQt was in the repos between Debian releases.
[01:25] <agaida> you should learn the basics - ubuntu take the sid packages
[01:25] <Kamilion> mind using numbers instead of toy story?
[01:25] <Kamilion> sid? that's... 9.0, right?
[01:25] <tsimonq2> Before the next Debian was released, it was put into Sid, which is "Unstable"
[01:26] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: People upload to Sid where it automatically migrates to "Testing" (staging area for next Debian release) after a certain amount of time.
[01:26] <agaida> you should really learn the basics - sid (sid is dangerous, still in development, unstable is the development branch or distribution of debian)
[01:26] <Unit193> All uploads (basically) go to unstable, there's a transition period then they're in testing, which is the staging area for the next stable.
[01:26] <Kamilion> I don't use debian though, it doesn't have PPAs.
[01:26] <Unit193> No, the dangerous one is experimental.
[01:26] <tsimonq2> agaida: "sid is dangerous" hehehehehehe
[01:27] <agaida> also called recursive acronym
[01:27] <Kamilion> as far as I'm concerned, all of debian is dangerous because their packages are so far out of date.
[01:27] <Kamilion> which, changed with jessie, but I never messed with jessie outside of the raspberry pi 2 images.
[01:27] <tsimonq2> agaida: OH hah :)
[01:27] <Unit193> Kamilion: Ubuntu is derived from Debian, thus you shouldn't use Ubuntu because of the same fact.
[01:27] <Kamilion> Pfft
[01:27] <agaida> tsimonq2: so you spend your time getting outdated packaging :D
[01:27] <Kamilion> So, then where do all these magic ubuntu patches that actually make things work come from, Unit193?
[01:28] <tsimonq2> Kamilion: Sometimes Ubuntu but most of the time Debian.
[01:28] <tsimonq2> agaida: hehehehehehehe
[01:28] <Unit193> This is all more fitting for #lubuntu-offtopic though.
[01:28] <Kamilion> Reguardless; I make heavy use of PPAs
[01:28] <Kamilion> and until debian has something similar, I'll be on canonical's repos.
[01:28] <Unit193> Kamilion: Interestingly, those patches and other delta is why Ubuntu packages can get even years out of date.
[01:29] <Kamilion> I've not had that problem in years, Unit193
[01:29] <Kamilion> not since 12.04
[01:29] <Kamilion> 14.04 had a modern version of python3, and since then, everything has been new enough.
[01:29] <Kamilion> 13.10 was a pain in my neck
[01:30] <Kamilion> Still is, since I have one 13.10 machine left
[01:30] <Kamilion>  18:30:24 up 752 days, 20:18
[01:31] <Kamilion> last of my xen servers that lacks the new 'xl' toolstack.
[01:32] <Kamilion> thankfully, this is it's last month before the hardware gets pitched on the junk pile and replaced with a modern E5 and a fresh kamikazi
[01:33] <Kamilion> oh -- actually. I have one 12.04 VM left, running a murmurd 1.0 server for Battlefield 2: Project Reality, as their python2.3 mumble library can't connect to newer versions, and it was too much of a pain to rebuild the old murmurd packages for 16.04.
[01:33] <Kamilion> that's the only real versioning problem I've had in the last 3 years.
[01:34] <Kamilion> So all in all, canonical's teams have been doing a really awesome job at keeping ubuntu's tagline true... Linux for human beings.
[01:36] <Kamilion> Kamikazi's "just booted" on a rediculous amount of hardware now... Mobile Robots, massive servers ( https://files.sllabs.com/files/images/biggest_kamikazi.png ), tiny tablet PCs, if it's got an amd64 compatible chip in there, I've probably booted kamikazi on it (or could)
[01:36] <Kamilion> https://files.sllabs.com/files/images/runningwildfromalivecd.png
[01:36] <Kamilion> INCEPTION before the movie.
[01:38] <Kamilion> I mean, heck.
[01:38] <Kamilion> https://files.sllabs.com/files/images/maverick-panel.png
[01:38] <Kamilion> I still have screenshots from 2012 of talking to wxl in here. I even use the same IRC theme.
[01:38] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/y85tH/72dec1641e.jpg
[01:40] <Kamilion> hassle-free for years.
[01:41] <Kamilion> papercut bugs, at the most.
[01:43] <Kamilion> well, okay. I'm not happy with where gnome-disks went with it's gnome3 UI and the GINORMOUS titlebar crap that drags in.
[01:44] <Kamilion> Speaking of which -- has anyone elected to solve that for lxqt?
[01:45] <Kamilion> gnome-disk-utility doesn't seem to be included with lubuntu-next artful
[01:46] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/y85Py/f54baa3f6a.png
[01:47] <Kamilion> I never thought I'd say this, but LXterminal looks a heck of a lot better than gnome-disk-utility
[08:51] <Haf> hi
[08:51] <Haf> how do i i instal lubuntu?
[08:52] <Haf> via usb?
[17:53] <Mastus> What's going on, isn't there a calculator and a cd burning sw installed as default?
[17:53] <Mastus> And some e-book SW is?
[18:45] <xangua> Don't remember if by default but you can install brasero
[22:12] <ifais> hello there!
[22:13] <ifais> Is anyone non-afk ?
[22:14] <wxl> !ask | ifais
[22:20] <ifais> Well, I tryied today to install Lubuntu. The pc is old and I want to experiment with it. Its a Pentium 4 with 1.5Gb RAM , CPU 2.4 , 200GB hard disk. The thing is that is not support USB-stick and I can only install from the Dvd-drive. The first time I install it and the PC was loading Lubuntu just fine, then I messed around a bit & removing start menu loosing pics of the icons etc. So cause I am newbie I decide to to reinstall it. I h
[22:21] <ifais> luck dvd-rom seems to stuck
[22:21] <wxl> define stuck
[22:21] <ifais> I change the wire and the dvd-rom but no luck either..
[22:22] <ifais> there is no moving
[22:22] <wxl> so you mean there's no additional progress?
[22:22] <ifais> yes
[22:23] <ifais> the mouse point stuck too
[22:23] <wxl> you're trying to install it or you're trying to load the live session?
[22:23] <ifais> the live session load just fine
[22:23] <ifais> i want to install it
[22:25] <wxl> i would recommend the alternate session
[22:25] <wxl> you don't have a lot of ram and the standard installer may be using it all up
[22:25] <ifais> I used that too
[22:25] <wxl> also note that DVDs are SLOOOOOW
[22:26] <ifais> the thing is that I did once
[22:26] <ifais> i install it
[22:26] <ifais> I dont understand why I cant the second one
[22:26] <ifais> I beleive that is the cd rom(dvd)
[22:27] <ifais> drive
[22:27] <ifais> it is old and thats why is stuck during the progress
[22:28] <wxl> did you check the hashes?
[22:28] <ifais> what is that "?
[22:28] <ifais> I am a newbie
[22:28] <wxl> !md5
[22:28] <wxl> ^^^
[22:28] <ifais> nope
[22:29] <wxl> if you don't do that you can't verify that the download is not corrupted
[22:29] <ifais> I see.
[22:29] <wxl> and you should also check the integrity of the copied image at the grub screen ("Check disc for defects")
[22:30] <ifais> I did that
[22:30] <ifais> I download and the earlier version... I will try that too
[22:31] <ifais> 14.04
[22:31] <wxl> you must do both
[22:31] <ifais> ok, I will try it
[22:33] <ifais> thx for yr time