[00:07] <Unit193> I should likely respond to something...But words are hard!
[00:23] <bluesabre> Word.
[02:45] <flocculant> bluesabre: I'll be about tonight - might need a bunch of pings :p
[02:45] <bluesabre> :)
[02:45] <flocculant> :)
[02:45] <flocculant> cos it's 3:45 and I'm now awake :(
[02:45] <bluesabre> That's really dang early
[02:46] <flocculant> yup 
[02:47] <flocculant> woohoo - ppa's at bionic :)
[02:53] <bluesabre> flocculant: updated the agenda for tomorrow, feel free to add anything else you might be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[02:53] <bluesabre> Will send the announcement in a few
[02:54] <flocculant> ok
[02:55] <flocculant> bionic updates - all from our ppa's :D
[02:57] <bluesabre> beginning of cycle is always fun with copying ppa packages
[02:57] <bluesabre> there's probably an easier way :\
[02:57] <Unit193> I just re-upload, it's pretty easy.
[02:58] <bluesabre> yeah
[02:58] <bluesabre> Time consuming though
[02:58] <bluesabre> Finally fixed the -settings package
[02:58] <Unit193> debuild -tc -sa -S && bppackage ../*.dsc -l ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce4-gtk3 -b  and it's done.
[02:59] <bluesabre> That would be the easier way I didn't know about :D
[02:59] <Unit193> I thought you meant literally copying the package forward.
[02:59] <flocculant> is there a way to know how many 'people' are downloading from a ppa?
[02:59] <bluesabre> dget; cd; dch -i; cd ..; dput
[03:00] <bluesabre> flocculant: Unit193 has some method to get stats
[03:01] <flocculant> could be useful to know how many 
[03:01] <flocculant> might be closer to 'testers' than 'I report on trackers' :D
[03:02] <flocculant> because that's apparently 4 ...
[03:02] <flocculant> :D
[03:05] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/z29kjW3pJKkweByGIZrP keep in mind this includes builds installing them.
[03:05] <Unit193> ..It also sometimes miscounts.
[03:06] <flocculant> Unit193: ta - and ack
[03:07] <flocculant> after meeting and I push testing mail - might be useful to check a week or so after
[03:07] <Unit193> I'm, uh. likely going to let bluesabre push to PPAs. :3
[03:08] <bluesabre> :)
[03:08] <flocculant> :)
[03:09] <Unit193> Bionic is around for 3 years, I don't really want to commit to keeping them up to date/functional/backporting for that long. :3
[03:09] <flocculant> lol
[03:23] <bluesabre> Our official PPAs promise no support
[03:25] <bluesabre> And if they are mostly for our use or testing, not sure it's necessary to keep them up to date unless somebody in the team has a need for them
[03:26] <bluesabre> Anyhoo, up too late, night all
[03:29] <flocculant> night night
[06:52] <ninetls> bluesabre: gtk_container_get_children produces a list which I should free. also it implemented using the same gtk_container_foreach.
[06:52] <ninetls> it makes empty list and then call foreach, in each callback call it adds child to the list
[09:47] <bluesabre> ninetls: yup, was just a quick one-liner example
[10:20] <Unit193> bluesabre: You see the archive is open?
[10:21] <bluesabre> Unit193: indeed!
[10:21] <Unit193> bluesabre: You going to do the uploads I had pending in my head?  I can't remember them. :D
[10:21] <bluesabre> Unit193: I'll probably get some uploads in tonight
[10:21] <Unit193> :3
[10:21] <bluesabre> pa-plug
[10:21] <bluesabre> you mentioned desktop recently
[10:21] <bluesabre> also going to discuss at the meeting this evening
[10:22] <Unit193> Ah right.
[10:27] <ochosi> some changes to the default settings may also be worth discussing
[10:27] <ochosi> e.g. a shortcut in whiskermenu to report a bug against xfce or something
[10:28] <Unit193> https://xfce.org/getinvolved
[10:28] <ochosi> and with shortcut i mean something like an action
[10:29] <ochosi> search action
[10:29] <Unit193> That's a bit harder, unless you know which precise package.  Also, that might become more "interesting" with the infra changes upstream, and the fact this release will be 3 years.
[10:29] <ochosi> yeah, but we'll need some redirects there anyhow, but you're right...
[10:30] <ochosi> anyway, was just a thought, maybe we have other good ideas for additional default actions
[10:30] <ochosi> and pleeease, let's discuss the xfwm4 alt-tab default (those huge previews really don't work well imo)
[10:31] <Unit193> In the past, distros have pointed at thir own trackers so as not to "spam" upstream with what could be packaging bugs or bugs in old releases long since fixed.
[10:31] <Unit193> (Which huge previews?)
[10:32] <bluesabre> the alt-tab image previews with xfwm
[10:33] <ochosi> yeah, a "lp #1234" shortcut may also be helpful
[10:33] <ochosi> ooops :)
[10:34] <Unit193> Yeah wasn't sure if I had a non-default setting, or if we defined "huge" differently.  I'm presuming "show window preview instead of icon" is selected.
[10:36] <ochosi> yeah, that is currently selected
[10:37] <ochosi> but tbh based on the feedback from my work colleagues (i've rolled out xubuntu within my company/team) it's not helpful
[10:37] <Unit193> \o/
[10:37] <Unit193> And yeah, I either use this, or list mode.
[10:38] <ochosi> if the window-preview mode could be bound to a different shortcut that could also be helpful
[10:38] <Unit193> not sure it's worth it.
[10:41] <bluesabre> Yeah, I prefer the icon only mode or list mode
[10:42] <bluesabre> I have a few folks where I work (including  3/5 of our web team) using xubuntu :)
[10:46]  * Unit193 is sure bluesabre does https://i.imgur.com/snLplqq.jpg
[11:04] <bluesabre> Nah, more like "I use this. You use this."
[11:05] <ochosi> :)
[11:05] <ochosi> we could almost do that meeting now
[11:05] <ochosi> almost everyone is here now
[11:05] <ochosi> flocculant?
[11:05] <ochosi> :)
[11:06] <akxwi-dave> :-) he'll be hiding
[11:07] <slickymasterWork> yey meeting adjourned \o/
[11:07] <Unit193> Everyone hides from meetings.
[11:43] <knome> sure.
[11:49] <knome> the time might be a bit too late for me this time
[13:17] <flocculant> ochosi: new job - mon - thursday not available between 7:15 and 5:30, finish early on Friday
[21:37] <bluesabre> evening all
[21:40] <flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
[21:42] <ochosi> hey
[21:43] <flocculant> hi ochosi 
[21:44] <flocculant> hope knome turns up so I can corrall you all :p
[21:44] <ochosi> :)
[21:45] <flocculant> I might be a bit slow - so I will 'but' to slow you all down :D
[21:45] <bluesabre> :D
[21:46] <flocculant> but ...
[21:46] <flocculant> a bit like that :p
[21:47] <bluesabre> !team | Meeting in 13 minutes, swing by if you want to pitch in :)
[21:59] <bluesabre> Who put this? "there's a phuny-thing, but could you please log this meeting to the ubuntu wiki ? so other's can go and read about artful aardvark 17.10."
[21:59] <bluesabre> :D
[21:59] <flocculant> could have been slickymaster 
[22:00] <flocculant> or me :p
[22:00] <slickymaster> lol
[22:00] <flocculant> sean - burt is this guy ...
[22:00] <slickymaster> his nick is yselnne
[22:01] <flocculant> I will obv remember that 
[22:01] <bluesabre> hm
[22:01] <bluesabre> :D
[22:01] <bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[22:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 27 22:01:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:01] <flocculant> bluesabre: got fot it :D
[22:01] <flocculant> for :D
[22:01] <bluesabre> Who's around?
[22:01] <ochosi> o/
[22:01] <flocculant> me !!!!!!!!!!!
[22:02] <flocculant> o/
[22:02] <bluesabre>  #chair ochosi flocculant slickymaster Unit193
[22:02] <flocculant> :(
[22:02] <bluesabre> #chair ochosi flocculant slickymaster Unit193
[22:02] <meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre flocculant ochosi slickymaster
[22:02] <slickymaster> can't say I'm not, now
[22:02] <bluesabre> :D
[22:02] <bluesabre> Sneaky
[22:02] <flocculant> gah
[22:02] <bluesabre> Anybody else want a chair ;)
[22:02] <flocculant> ...
[22:03] <bluesabre> Let's get started then
[22:03] <bluesabre> #topic Open action items
[22:03] <bluesabre> (and there are none)
[22:03] <bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
[22:03] <flocculant> bluesabre: 
[22:03] <bluesabre> #info Blueprints are up: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-development
[22:03] <bluesabre> #info The archive is open
[22:03] <bluesabre> #info PPAs are ready
[22:03] <bluesabre> #info Feature Definition Freeze on November 30th: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureDefinitionFreeze
[22:04] <flocculant> can I jump in right at the start
[22:04] <bluesabre> flocculant: go for it
[22:04] <flocculant> make a statement and then we can all go 'argue' mode
[22:04] <flocculant> ok ... so
[22:05] <flocculant> we has bugs
[22:05] <flocculant> we has isues
[22:05] <flocculant> we has xfce doing stuff
[22:05] <flocculant> we has xfce doing stuff for the other year
[22:05] <flocculant> and year
[22:05] <flocculant> WE have 6 months 
[22:06] <flocculant> to count for 3 years
[22:06] <flocculant> can we PLEASE decide soon
[22:06] <flocculant> then we can ALL test 
[22:07] <flocculant> that is the Xubuntu 18.04 QA statement
[22:07] <flocculant> akxwi-dave's not done this 3 year lie
[22:07] <flocculant> I have
[22:07] <flocculant> not again.
[22:07] <flocculant> Full Stop.
[22:08] <flocculant> bluesabre: thanks ;)
[22:08] <bluesabre> Cool, good discussion material :D
[22:08] <Unit193> Right, so 4.13 is a *development* release, by the name alone it really shouldn't be in an LTS.
[22:08] <flocculant> :D
[22:08] <bluesabre> yes
[22:08] <bluesabre> Discussion
[22:08] <bluesabre> so one sec
[22:09] <bluesabre> #info Roadmap (all blueprints at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-roadmap)
[22:09] <bluesabre> Anything else we want to #info?
[22:10] <bluesabre> (for announcements)?
[22:10] <flocculant> not from me :D
[22:10] <ochosi> me neither
[22:10] <slickymaster> nothing here also
[22:11] <bluesabre> Allllrighty, onwards :)
[22:11] <bluesabre> #topic Discussion
[22:11] <flocculant> soory ;)
[22:12] <bluesabre> We'll move things around a bit
[22:12] <ochosi> i vaguely remember we've been there before with 4.12
[22:12] <bluesabre> #subtopic Xfce 4.13/4.14
[22:12] <flocculant> I'll wait now - but I have points here
[22:12] <bluesabre> Agreed that 4.13 is development and we definitely don't want a lot of dev-y things in there
[22:13] <bluesabre> But I also think there are some things that are more stable now than in the 4.12 branch
[22:13] <bluesabre> Thunar was *stable* and a nightmare
[22:13] <Unit193> We're Ubuntu based, means we have PPAs.  Lets use them, then we can have updates all cycle and not be stuck with 4.13.2 when 4.13.6 was released months ago.
[22:13] <flocculant> point
[22:13] <ochosi> yeah, PPAs make a lot of sense
[22:13] <slickymaster> yep
[22:14] <flocculant> do we have somewhere we can 'point' and call that IT
[22:14] <Unit193> Thunar has out of tree plugins, the new version has no capability for them.  It's also at this point something that "if it works, don't touch it" in my mind. :D
[22:14] <bluesabre> Yes, Thunar was the extreme example, I don't want the dev version :D
[22:14] <ochosi> i also agree with bluesabre, some things are more stable/maintained in the devel cycle. plus it's quite hard to really fully assess the stability of the components
[22:14] <flocculant> can we just now chuck in gtk3
[22:15] <bluesabre> At the same time, we also already have some gtk3 components that are dev-level
[22:15] <Unit193> Yeeah..
[22:15] <flocculant> what do we have there we can use and force through ppa?
[22:15] <Unit193> bluesabre: As a slight reminder, don't touch libxfce4ui.
[22:16] <bluesabre> Unit193: sure thing
[22:16] <flocculant> can I just make an important point - especially from 'out' view
[22:16] <bluesabre> flocculant: We have our ~xubuntu-dev PPAs which are about as official as we want to get
[22:16] <bluesabre> -staging can be a safe place to land bug fixes before they land in SRUs
[22:16] <flocculant> what are we talking about that we expect tobe gtk3 in 18.04
[22:17] <bluesabre> That's what this discussion is about :D
[22:17] <flocculant> bluesabre: cabn we ignore ppa ftm
[22:17] <bluesabre> Yes.
[22:17] <flocculant> yea yea - so what?
[22:17] <bluesabre> So focusing...
[22:17] <flocculant> give me a list :D
[22:17] <Unit193> Panel plugins are generally low impact.
[22:18] <bluesabre> And we already have most of them
[22:18] <bluesabre> xfce4-notifyd is stable now
[22:18] <flocculant> pa for the most part is drop in
[22:18] <bluesabre> yes
[22:19] <bluesabre> and moreso soon
[22:19] <flocculant> :)
[22:19] <bluesabre> exo is stable
[22:20] <bluesabre> xfce4-settings is dev, but stable (haven't heard otherwise), but probably going to hold until the rest of xfce core is ready
[22:20] <ochosi> xfpm will get another release
[22:20] <ochosi> and is also stable
[22:20] <flocculant> what I would like to do for testing this stuff is quit4e simple, run artful - add this ppa
[22:20] <bluesabre> Right
[22:21] <flocculant> can we do that?
[22:21] <bluesabre> Want to nail down what we want before I start uploading to a PPA
[22:21] <bluesabre> and to the archive
[22:21] <bluesabre> Might be a discussion that goes for a few days
[22:21] <flocculant> that's you're calls
[22:21] <ochosi> yeah, i'd say we should first get the list
[22:21] <flocculant> nd that's fine
[22:21] <flocculant> a
[22:22] <bluesabre> But definitely glad to start the discussion
[22:22] <flocculant> I want to be able to say run artful - add this ppa
[22:22] <bluesabre> flocculant: yes, and we will have that
[22:22] <flocculant> cool
[22:22] <ochosi> bluesabre: we could have two "levels" of PPAs for artful
[22:22] <ochosi> so we can start with 2 lists
[22:22] <flocculant> if qa has that then we can push forward
[22:23] <Unit193> I've been pushing everything to xfce4-gtk3.
[22:23] <ochosi> one that we're confident about, a second one that we're less confident about
[22:23] <bluesabre> or we don't push for the things we don't trust
[22:23] <flocculant> Unit193: a weeklyish of numbers on that ppa would be helpful
[22:23] <ochosi> yeah, but the whole "trust" thing is tricky
[22:24] <Unit193> ochosi: +1
[22:24] <Unit193> I don't trust xfpm past 1.4.4 :3
[22:24] <ochosi> why's that?
[22:24] <bluesabre> so we could possibly have xubuntu-dev/stable and xubuntu-dev/experimental if we want to go that route
[22:24] <flocculant> qa position is simple - we'll test - if we have #'s thats great
[22:24] <flocculant> point
[22:24] <ochosi> yeah, something like that
[22:24] <Unit193> Tried it out, didn't exactly go so well, reverted.
[22:25] <flocculant> important point
[22:25]  * flocculant waits
[22:26] <bluesabre> Unit193: thoughts on the 2-ppa system?
[22:26] <Unit193> bluesabre: Eg, I always push to experimental, wait for someone to tell me to copy over?
[22:26] <flocculant> #if 'we' have some clue as to something that might land in ppa which could kill everything off - we can use the tracker to point testers to it
[22:26] <flocculant> eg
[22:26] <bluesabre> primary target those who want to test things for us
[22:26] <flocculant> DON@T UOGRADE warning :p
[22:27] <Unit193> bluesabre: I kind of need something to guide me so I don't go "Oh new $package, uhh...Where the heck does this go?  No clue, I'll just pop it in my repo for now." and forget.
[22:27] <flocculant> but that takes some communication - whiche even though we're hours apart we're quite good at
[22:28] <bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I think that's a good idea. experimental can be a landing place for all those
[22:28] <ochosi> i think everything can go to experimental
[22:28] <flocculant> my position is a single ppa if poss
[22:28] <flocculant> ochosi: ack
[22:28] <ochosi> and the things that are on our whitelist for bionic go to staging
[22:28] <flocculant> dev'y peeps
[22:29] <bluesabre> flocculant: the stable ppa would be the way to go for that, and we can have specific calls for testing for items in exp if needed
[22:29] <ochosi> another trivial one is xfce4-volume-pulse. i ported it recently
[22:29] <flocculant> can we not point people to experimental and stagin?
[22:29] <flocculant> bluesabre: surely we need them to do 'breaky' stuff?
[22:30] <flocculant> ppa-purge always worked for me
[22:30] <flocculant> mmm
[22:30] <Unit193> ochosi: I've seen it, but in light of pa-plug does it matter?  I'm presuming it doesn't do alsa, so you'd not be able to do volumeicon-alsa+xfce4-volumed anymore? :P
[22:30] <ochosi> true
[22:30] <bluesabre> flocculant: for staging/exp, we can do the same as we do for SRUs, add -proposed, install the package, remove -proposed
[22:30] <flocculant> could we not
[22:31] <bluesabre> If we keep the processes the same, it's easier for contributors coming from anywhere in ubuntu
[22:31] <flocculant> stuff we really want = staging, not too sure = exp ?
[22:31] <ochosi> yup, that would be my thought
[22:31] <flocculant> I'd love to make it simple for testers
[22:31] <bluesabre> -staging is for updates we plan to land in the archive soon
[22:31] <flocculant> and then it's simpler for us
[22:31] <bluesabre> usually for already released series
[22:32] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so add a ppa?
[22:32] <bluesabre> But glad to do what we can to help qa
[22:32] <flocculant> dude
[22:32] <flocculant> we'll test what you give us :)
[22:32] <bluesabre> (sorry, everybody is really rapid fire right now)
[22:32] <flocculant> ye
[22:32] <flocculant> a
[22:33] <bluesabre> Not used to having meetings with multiple attendees :D
[22:33] <flocculant> take 5 
[22:33] <flocculant> catch up on consensus
[22:33] <flocculant> :)
[22:33] <ochosi> should we start a piratepad for the two lists of components though?
[22:33] <bluesabre> ochosi: sounds good to me, want to start that?
[22:33] <flocculant> ochosi: ie staging and defintes? 
[22:33] <ochosi> i mean we can do that in parallel to this meeting and keep it open
[22:33] <ochosi> flocculant: yup
[22:33] <flocculant> also
[22:34] <flocculant> what xfce possibles do we want to have - and are they stable enough?
[22:35] <flocculant> is the other one
[22:35] <ochosi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/PyIIYsyIfn
[22:35] <Unit193> What I'm reading here: "There will be multiple PPAs, for different things due to different levels of desire and testing needs." and what I'm interpreting that as: "Unit193 will always upload to experimental, people can copy over what's needed" :P
[22:35] <Unit193> ochosi: That's not a piratepad, fyi.
[22:36] <ochosi> potato potato
[22:36] <bluesabre> Unit193: yes. experimental where all packages can land
[22:37] <Unit193> I can live with that.
[22:37] <Unit193> I can also point my package tracker thingy at it.
[22:37] <bluesabre> and stable where approved (we will ship in bionic/oldstable) packages will be copied to when approved
[22:39] <bluesabre> Good to have that agreed on
[22:40] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to create "stable" and "experimental" PPAs
[22:40] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to create "stable" and "experimental" PPAs
[22:40] <Unit193> Basically, as long as we don't confuse flocculant or Unit193, we're good!
[22:40] <Unit193> What happens with xfce4-gtk3?
[22:40] <bluesabre> Yup
[22:40] <bluesabre> I'm not sure yet what we do with our existing PPAs
[22:40] <flocculant> Unit193: :)
[22:41] <bluesabre> I think -gtk3 still has a purpose, staging may no longer with stable
[22:41] <Unit193> flocculant: Also, whatever you want from me, please ask.  I'm generally accommodating enough, but I can't read minds. :3
[22:42] <bluesabre> :)
[22:42] <Unit193> bluesabre: -staging was pre-SRU stuff, xfce4-gtk3 is what experimental sounds like.
[22:42] <flocculant> bluesabre: can we back set 'fairl unused ppa's to artful' assuming then that someone like me would just sety it to Steve Majors?
[22:42] <flocculant> if I wanted to
[22:42] <bluesabre> flocculant: I really have no idea what that sentence means
[22:43] <flocculant> so all our 'we want this stuff tested' was at right version
[22:43] <flocculant> bluesabre: Steve Majors was the 6 Million Dollar Man 
[22:44] <bluesabre> flocculant: I know what that is, but nothing more :D
[22:44] <flocculant> oic failr  - fairly unused
[22:45] <bluesabre> We'll have the new PPAs only running artful and bionic, and will drop a when c starts
[22:45] <flocculant> so - I'd move to bionic cos I update daily - not monthly
[22:45] <bluesabre> So we have everything running the env we want
[22:45] <flocculant> k - I think that's the same thing :D
[22:45] <bluesabre> Unit193: I think we can drop the -gtk3 ppa in favor of experimental then
[22:46] <flocculant> yea
[22:46] <flocculant> that's my position
[22:46] <bluesabre> Unit193: you want the task to decomm that PPA (after copying over)?
[22:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: I can do that, if you put it as blocked by yours.
[22:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: certainly :)
[22:47] <bluesabre> #action Unit193 to decommission the xfce4-gtk3 ppa in favor of experimental
[22:47] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to decommission the xfce4-gtk3 ppa in favor of experimental
[22:47] <flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 ochosi - what I would like from qa pov - is anything that's likely 18.04 bound in one place
[22:48] <flocculant> if themesis a pain - then I'll make 1 exception :D
[22:48] <bluesabre> That's where we're heading with this plan :)
[22:48] <flocculant> I thought so :D
[22:49] <flocculant> I just ned something concretish to tell peopl
[22:49] <flocculant> e
[22:49] <flocculant> or akxwi-dave does - cos all tasks :p
[22:49] <bluesabre> flocculant: I'll also add a new template for xfpanel-switch to grab our new panel plugins to make it easier for artful users to get set up
[22:49] <ochosi> noice
[22:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: you wanto hold fire there
[22:50] <flocculant> cos defaults ....
[22:50] <bluesabre> Yeah, we can't replace panel defaults in an already created session, so that's the next best thing for the panel
[22:51] <flocculant> bluesabre: but we can have new defaults? or the whole world is on dos6 :D
[22:51] <flocculant> if only 
[22:52] <ochosi> could ask testers to create new sessions too, if it's not just about panel settings
[22:52] <bluesabre> yeah
[22:52] <ochosi> s/sessions/accounts/
[22:52] <flocculant> xubuntu council - I would like us to loom at defaults
[22:52] <flocculant> bah
[22:52] <flocculant> s/loom/look
[22:53] <bluesabre> technically we have new defaults available in the daily ppa and can land them in exp/stable when we make them
[22:53] <flocculant> yea but testing
[22:53] <flocculant> we've already had 2 weeks of the time we never get :D
[22:54] <bluesabre> I'm not sure what the question is :D
[22:54] <Unit193> Log out, flip to TTY, rm -rf ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml then log back in.
[22:54] <flocculant> anyway - point was leave defaults till that discussion
[22:54] <flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
[22:54] <bluesabre> gotcha
[22:54] <Unit193> Right, and here's where the daily PPA is nice, so as not to confuse with experimental.
[22:54] <flocculant> yea
[22:54] <flocculant> I think we need 2 for sure
[22:55] <flocculant> definites/mm reallys 
[22:55] <flocculant> whichever way we look - we've got freezes to work with
[22:56] <bluesabre> Yep
[22:56] <flocculant> MY point is that - if we've got less ppa's to get people loooking
[22:56] <flocculant> tghen we tghen arrow in on issues
[22:56] <bluesabre> Correct
[22:57] <bluesabre> And we don't miss things by running things that won't be included in bionic
[22:57] <bluesabre> like all the -gtk3 bits of xfce
[22:57] <flocculant> rather than me seeing something on ppa785 and akxwi-dave seeing the sqame thing on 364 - but same package
[22:57] <bluesabre> Yup
[22:58] <flocculant> yea cool
[22:58] <bluesabre> So we'll get that straightened out quickly
[22:58] <flocculant> 2 ppa's for the whole cycle wou;ld be great for me
[22:58] <flocculant> people ppa
[22:58] <flocculant> kev ppa
[22:58] <bluesabre> And we'll work on the list for the next few days
[22:58] <ochosi> yup
[22:58] <flocculant> type thing
[22:58] <bluesabre> Anything else we want to discuss?
[22:59] <flocculant> bluesabre: this is topic 1 :S
[22:59] <bluesabre> Concerns, team deadlines, etc?
[22:59] <ochosi> from my side that's the main part
[22:59] <Unit193> Q: ...Does that mean we'll have to put daily builds in experimental? :/
[22:59] <bluesabre> Unit193: I think daily should stay in daily
[22:59] <flocculant> goodgood job it's one topic :D
[22:59] <Unit193> Good, I don't want those. :3
[22:59] <bluesabre> They might be months away from any release
[23:00] <flocculant> oh what
[23:00] <bluesabre> flocculant: The topics I had were Dev/QA Coordination, Artful -> Bionic testing PPAs, Package updates: Xfce 4.14 components, PulseAudio Plugin, StatusNotifier Plugin ... and we've smashed them all together :D
[23:00] <bluesabre> flocculant: the daily things
[23:01] <bluesabre> #action bluesabre, ochosi, and Unit193 to review xfce component list for stable/experimental
[23:01] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre, ochosi, and Unit193 to review xfce component list for stable/experimental
[23:01] <flocculant> ththatbah
[23:02] <flocculant> sao 
[23:02] <bluesabre> Just so we have it on the todo
[23:02] <flocculant> terminal in bionic hangs and kills irssi
[23:02] <flocculant> seemingly :p
[23:02] <bluesabre> :)
[23:03] <bluesabre> Anything else?
[23:03] <flocculant> cos oh what - was me doing an 0_0
[23:03] <bluesabre> :D
[23:03] <flocculant> nee to think there - not meeting thing, just you 2 and qa
[23:04] <flocculant> s/nee/need
[23:04] <ochosi> i'll need to leave quite soonish
[23:04] <Unit193> bluesabre: Sidebar after meeting?
[23:04] <ochosi> anything else i can contribute to tonight?
[23:05] <flocculant> ochosi: just quickly 
[23:05] <bluesabre> Unit193: sure thing
[23:06] <flocculant> ochosi: I notice that shimmer stuff comes through rapid - and I kind of know to go look at changelog and ignore 'translation' but how would berty using the ppa have a clue?
[23:07] <ochosi> you mean the shimmer PPA?
[23:07] <flocculant> everyone needs to obviously be aware that berty is just some person - for the logs
[23:07] <flocculant> ochosi: yea
[23:08] <ochosi> tbh i'm not even sure anymore what's inside these days, i build everything from git...
[23:08] <bluesabre> Those are daily builds, so not much can be determined just by the package
[23:08] <ochosi> icon theme and greybird?
[23:08] <ochosi> or more?
[23:08] <flocculant> I also see words in xfce-dev about ignore anything languagishy
[23:08] <ochosi> yeah, we discussed ignoring it in the git log on the web frontend
[23:08] <flocculant> as it stands
[23:09] <ochosi> anything else will be hard/impossible/meaningless
[23:09] <flocculant> non-ppa - check changelog - some words
[23:09] <ochosi> for greybird there can be needed changes, but we can try to push them through the new PPAs instead of the shimmer PPA
[23:10] <ochosi> and the icon theme should come through xubuntu-artwork anyhow
[23:10] <flocculant> ppa- check changelog - ha ha ha ha ha ha - do what buddy, do one, no information her
[23:10] <flocculant> e
[23:10] <flocculant> I know - I'll go off if I care and find it
[23:10] <bluesabre> I would just look at the release pages to see what's new, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases, https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/releases, not a ton of activity on either besides fixes
[23:11] <ochosi> exactly
[23:11] <bluesabre> We can probably add links to the PPAs for things that are less clear (like artwork)
[23:11] <ochosi> i try to write meaningful release messages though
[23:11] <ochosi> so all changes should be reflected there in a "management summary"
[23:11] <flocculant> bluesabre: that works for you beCAUSE YOU KNOW git
[23:11] <flocculant> sorry for odd caps
[23:11] <bluesabre> flocculant: that's not gitty, it's paragraphy :D
[23:11] <flocculant> :d
[23:11] <ochosi> this is really a *management* summary
[23:12] <ochosi> anyone can read and understand
[23:12] <ochosi> and if you don't know what certain widgets are, it'll be hard to explain in text anyway..
[23:12] <ochosi> at least you can google with those release notes
[23:12] <flocculant> I always end up at some random lp page log knowing that a + is soimething added and a - is a loss
[23:13] <flocculant> and that mostly all the shimmer stuff is + random language - random langauge
[23:14] <bluesabre> yeah, stay away from the commits :)
[23:14] <bluesabre> it's not meant to be understandable
[23:14] <flocculant> omg the Sapnish guy forgot the word for toilet - never mind someone will remember in the end
[23:14] <ochosi> the two links above don't go to commits (if you haven't clicked yet)
[23:14] <flocculant> bluesabre: ack - but only way to see ppa changes :D
[23:15] <ochosi> yeah, that's a feature request for PPAs :)
[23:15] <bluesabre> flocculant: right, but there is nothing we can do with that, lp limitation
[23:15]  * bluesabre shrugs
[23:15] <bluesabre> Anything else?
[23:17] <Unit193> I think my stuff is after-meeting?  Not entirely sure.
[23:17] <bluesabre> Uploads?
[23:17] <Unit193> Varies.
[23:18] <flocculant> bluesabre: yea - understood that :p
[23:18] <bluesabre> We can just do it after then :)
[23:18] <bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
[23:18] <ochosi> ok, if there's nothing else where you need my direct input i'll be on my way
[23:18] <flocculant> nothing more here 
[23:18] <bluesabre> pleia2: sorry for stealing you meeting slot...
[23:18] <bluesabre> #action pleia2 to schedule next meeting
[23:18] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule next meeting
[23:18] <bluesabre> #endmeeting
[23:18] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 27 23:18:58 2017 UTC.  
[23:18] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2017/xubuntu-devel.2017-10-27-22.01.moin.txt
[23:19] <bluesabre> Thanks all
[23:19] <bluesabre> Good discussion!
[23:19] <bluesabre> :D
[23:19] <Unit193> G'night, people going to sleep!
[23:19] <Unit193> bluesabre:
[23:19] <Unit193> Sync'd xfce4-clipman-plugin, xfce4-diskperf-plugin, xfce4-mount-plugin, and xfce4-weather-plugin from Debian.
[23:19] <Unit193> We've already got..0.11.5? of exo, so I guess we'll roll development on that.  Pull in new garcon?  Is it stable?  We're already rolling development on libxfce4ui, but it's not really changed a whole lot since it supports gtk2/gtk3 and has been since prior releases.
[23:19] <Unit193> sn-plug I'm all for, been using it since shortly after it came out.  It only specifically replaces indicator-application though.  Is there any specific config we'd like to use with this?
[23:19] <Unit193> pa-plug I personally haven't been using, but this would replace indicator-sound and xfce4-volumed.  This leaves us with indicator-messages in xfce4-indicator-plugin.
[23:19] <Unit193> Now in regards to the package tracker thingy dohicky.  It currently tracks Debian/Xubuntu, Xubuntu-staging/artful, and Xfce4-gtk3/artful PPAs.  Am I the only one that uses this?  Not a problem if I am, mind you.
[23:19] <Unit193> I'd also ask about indicators, specifically in regards to the namespacing and such, but I don't think anyone else knows more either.  I'm kind of upstreamish in Debian, so I suppose technically I should try to answer, but I don't know everything.  I don't know specifically where Ubuntu stands on this.  indicator-sound is the Ubuntu one, ayatana-indicator-sound is Debian's, etc.
[23:19] <Unit193> And, have I convinced any Xubuntu assets to migrate to Launchpad's git this cycle? :3
[23:19] <Unit193> I don't think I want to mention Xubuntu Core, I wince when I see it listed in the blueprint.
[23:20]  * bluesabre is overwhelmed
[23:20] <Unit193> Sorry. :3
[23:22] <bluesabre> Unit193: Great on the syncs!
[23:22] <bluesabre> Unit193: re: libxfce4ui, what's the blocker on it currently?
[23:24] <ochosi> i think it needs a release
[23:24] <ochosi> that's the blocker
[23:24] <ochosi> eric already pushed the fix for the showstopperish issue that was lingering inside (if i'm not mistaken)
[23:25] <Unit193> ochosi is correct, the current version causes all sorts of issues.  We don't want that.
[23:25] <ochosi> i can easily release a new version though
[23:25] <ochosi> not tonight, but tomorrow
[23:25] <Unit193> ochosi: That last patch is incomplete, though.
[23:26] <ochosi> hrm
[23:26] <Unit193> (Easily fixed.)
[23:26] <bluesabre> Gotcha, so if we get a good release (fully fixed and patched) we can push it to exp and then maybe stable later
[23:26] <ochosi> yeah, then let's get it fixed and released tomorrow
[23:26] <bluesabre> garcon is fine for exp for now
[23:26] <ochosi> i looked into the abyss a little with xfpm today, it needs a lot of code cleanup (@bluesabre: still remember parole from back in the day..?)
[23:27] <ochosi> but functionally it is ok
[23:27] <ochosi> only tried to get rid of some notification code
[23:27] <Unit193> bluesabre: Right, but it's already there so I'm talking Bionic.
[23:27] <ochosi> that'll take a bit longer, but i think it'll be a nice improvement over 1.4.4
[23:27] <bluesabre> Unit193: sn-plug,  symbolic icons and menu primary seem like good defaults
[23:28] <bluesabre> ochosi: cool
[23:28] <ochosi> for missing symbolic icons please submit issues on github, i'll add them to elementary-xfce where needed
[23:28] <bluesabre> I think it falls back gracefully
[23:28] <bluesabre> but yeah
[23:29] <bluesabre> thanks ochosi 
[23:29] <ochosi> still
[23:29] <bluesabre> Unit193: pa-plug will be getting some more tweaks soon to bring it up and past ind-sound, hopefully will convert you ;)
[23:30] <bluesabre> Unit193: I forgot about the package tracker, but did use it back in the day
[23:30] <bluesabre> And this should be an active cycle, so I expect that it will be handy again
[23:33] <bluesabre> Unit193: re: indicators, any idea if there are plans to pull the ayatana ones back into ubuntu (and replace the existing with transition packages)? I'd imagine there's actually bugs being fixed in ayatana land
[23:34] <Unit193> bluesabre: No clue in regards to Ubuntu, no.  There's no transitional packages/symlinks so far though.
[23:34] <Unit193> xfce4-indicator-plugin in Debian uses ayatana now though.
[23:34] <bluesabre> Unit193: any pain associated with moving projects from bzr to git in lp? git's got a bit more oomph and flexibility
[23:35] <bluesabre> Neat
[23:35] <Unit193> I'm not entirely sure how well the seed would handle it, but the only thing is bug metadata.
[23:35] <ochosi> one thing to keep in mind with sni plugin is LTS upgrades
[23:35] <ochosi> (and now i'm really out)
[23:36] <bluesabre> nighty ochosi
[23:36] <bluesabre> Unit193: that could be reason enough to maybe only do the things that have bug tracking disabled for now
[23:37] <bluesabre> Unit193: and for core/base, was thinking I might take a look at them and refresh the packages
[23:37] <bluesabre> and we can have knome do the poking
[23:37] <bluesabre> Fun cycle ahead :)
[23:38] <Unit193> bluesabre: By that I mean if someone used bzr commit --fixes=174562  then that's lost, but otherwise painless.
[23:38] <bluesabre> oh
[23:38] <bluesabre> That's pretty painless then
[23:38] <bluesabre> I've never used that
[23:38] <bluesabre> :D
[23:38] <bluesabre> Didn't know it existed
[23:39] <bluesabre> Thanks for all the feedback Unit193 :)
[23:40] <bluesabre> Going to go grab dinner now, will update the meeting notes tonight
[23:40] <bluesabre> bbl
[23:43] <Unit193> http://piratepad.net/xubuntu-dev so that's what I'm reading as responses.