[08:41] <profP> Hello.
[08:46] <karjala_> hi
[08:48] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:28] <bryanfrommacau> Hi
[09:29] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:29] <bryanfrommacau> This is going to sound very cheap...but my flash drive is only 1 GB....if I install ubuntu server, and then install mate, will it basically be the same thing?
[09:30] <gordonjcp> I think you'd struggle to install even Ubuntu Server in less than 2GB
[09:30] <alkisg> bryanfrommacau: yes, but you can also use the network installer, https://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads
[09:30] <alkisg> gordonjcp: he means the installation media only
[09:31] <gordonjcp> aha that makes mre sense
[09:31] <bryanfrommacau> a network installer would be great, but that's only for ubuntu, right?
[09:32] <alkisg> No you can select the environment from an installation menu
[09:32] <alkisg> At least that was the case years ago when I tried it...
[09:32] <alkisg> And of course you can put it on the server too
[09:32] <alkisg> *on the pc hard disk
[09:32] <alkisg> (the iso)
[09:32] <bryanfrommacau> Great, I'll give it a try :)
[09:44] <alkisg> bryanfrommacau: just tried it, mini.iso does have an "install ubuntu mate desktop" option
[09:50] <bryanfrommacau> Great, thanks :)
[09:50] <bryanfrommacau> I just realized that this computer has 2GB of RAM (64 bit processor)....is Mate a good choice?
[09:51] <bryanfrommacau> For some reason I was thinking it had more...
[09:51] <alkisg> Sure, mate is fine
[09:52] <bryanfrommacau> Should I stick with the 32 bit version?
[09:53] <bryanfrommacau> I'm just worried that might limit my options for some apps
[09:53] <alkisg> It depends on if you want to run e.g. steam (optimized for 32 bits) or skype (64 bit only)
[09:54] <alkisg> 64bit wastes a bit of ram and is a bit faster, but that's not very significant with 2 gb ram, so just select based on the apps you want
[09:54] <bryanfrommacau> probably don't need skype, mostly office stuff
[09:54] <bryanfrommacau> ok
[11:48] <josh_17-10> Found a bug in a caja interface launched by Thunderbird - is it likely  a caja bug to be reported here https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja or a Thunderbird or Nautilus issue?
[13:13] <rel> Firefox will not load on my Pi
[13:13] <rel> Any suggestions, it keeps giving me a crash report before it even loads.
[13:13] <alkisg> install a previous version
[13:14] <alkisg> Last firefox is broken on pi
[13:16] <rel> alkish Thanks
[13:17] <rel> How would I do thatn alkish?
[13:18] <alkisg> Use <tab> to autocomplete the names in irc
[13:19] <alkisg> alk<tab>
[13:19] <alkisg> Which Ubuntu version?
[13:19] <rel> 14.04
[13:19] <rel> Ubuntu Mate
[13:19] <rel> For the Raspberry PI
[13:20] <rel> alkisg: Thanks didn't know that Tab trick1 :)
[13:20] <alkisg> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=firefox
[13:21] <alkisg> This says that you have either 56 or 28
[13:21] <alkisg> What's the output of this command? apt policy firefox
[13:21] <alkisg> apt-cache policy firefox
[13:22] <rel> alkisg: Firefox 56
[13:22] <rel> alkisg: I got to role back to 28?
[13:23] <alkisg> rel: or find 54 online
[13:23] <alkisg> I think 55 broke it
[13:24] <rel> alkisg: Ok, I'll uninstall it?
[13:24] <alkisg> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/f/firefox/
[13:24] <alkisg> No, you install the old one over the new one
[13:24] <alkisg> Don't uninstall it because it will remove other packages too
[13:26] <alkisg> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/f/firefox/firefox_52.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.12.04.1_armhf.deb
[13:26] <alkisg> This one should do...
[13:27] <rel> Ok thanks
[13:27] <rel> alkisg: Not on my Pi right now, but will do it later.
[13:27] <alkisg> np
[13:31] <alkisg> Or this one (worked for me in 16.04): http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/f/firefox/firefox_50.1.0+build2-0ubuntu1_armhf.deb
[13:33] <alkisg> Remember to run `apt-mark hold firefox` after installing, so that it doesn't auto-upgade back to 56
[13:37] <rel> alkisg: Thanks
[13:37] <rel> alkisg: Was wondering about how to prevent it from auto-updates.
[13:37] <alkisg> np
[13:40] <ricotz> alkisg, please do *not* recommend using old unsupported firefox versions!
[13:42] <ricotz> rel, https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+files/firefox-esr_52.4.1~esr+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_armhf.deb
[13:56] <alkisg> ricotz: please don't upload versions that crash without checking :)
[13:56] <alkisg> That was what was in the archive :)
[13:57]  * alkisg wonders if there's any unit testing at all... for firefox in armhf
[13:58] <ricotz> alkisg, mozilla doesn't support a bunch of archs, so runtime and even compile failures are expected :(
[13:58] <ricotz> alkisg, could you test this one? https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-next/+files/firefox_57.0~b13+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_armhf.deb
[13:58] <ricotz> although firefox 56 received an armhf runtime fix
[13:59] <alkisg> ricotz: sure, I have my rpi open, let me test...
[14:01] <alkisg> ricotz: same, ExceptionHandler::GenerateDump cloned child 29837, ExceptionHandler::SendContinueSignalToChild sent continue signal to child, ExceptionHandler::WaitForContinueSignal waiting for continue signal...
[14:02] <alkisg> +mozilla crash report
[14:02] <alkisg> ricotz: so, apt policy I have firefox 45 (runs), 56 (doesn't), and in the official ports archive there's 50 (runs)
[14:02] <alkisg> ...which one should I be using? Don't tell me 56, it doesn't run...
[14:03] <alkisg> From those, I select 50.
[14:03] <ricotz> I see, this is natively running on raspi1/2/3?
[14:03] <alkisg> Let me check the -esr version, hopefully it doesn't conflict with anything...
[14:03] <alkisg> Yes, native on rpi2
[14:03] <ricotz> without any ssh
[14:03] <alkisg> Yes
[14:03] <alkisg> Without ssh
[14:04] <ricotz> I would strictly recommend firefox-esr 52 if it works
[14:04] <ricotz> for you own safety
[14:04] <alkisg> Testing...
[14:04] <alkisg> Generally mozilla in rpi isn't usable for surfing, so I only have it for emergencies like accessing cups in localhost:631 etc
[14:05] <ricotz> ok
[14:06] <alkisg> Ouch, it's considered a different browser, co-installable, telling me to import bookmarks etc from chromium...
[14:07] <ricotz> yes
[14:07] <alkisg> Firefox 52 (normal) also runs, so I would expect it to... yes, it runs as well
[14:07] <alkisg> And it complains it's out of date :D
[14:07] <ricotz> really? 52.5 is due next week
[14:12] <alkisg> ricotz: do you think it's safe to remove the firefox package and keep firefox-esr (i.e. would ubuntu-mate-desktop package depend on either of those, or only firefox?)
[14:12] <alkisg> Also, are there any localization packages? firefox-lang-el...
[14:13] <ricotz> alkisg, you can add the ppa to receive updates and l10n packages
[14:13]  * alkisg guesses it's not this one: https://launchpad.net/~team-esr/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-esr
[14:13] <ricotz> depend on the dependency chain, you can make firefox-esr the default in the stettings
[14:14] <alkisg> ...but this one: https://launchpad.net/~jonathonf/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-esr
[14:14] <ricotz> no, and no
[14:14] <alkisg> :) which one?
[14:14] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[14:14] <alkisg> ty, testing...
[14:14] <ricotz> the link I gave should already made it clear ;)
[14:14] <alkisg> (it needs some more google page rank :D)
[14:15] <alkisg> It should, but I opted to googling to type less characters, and I fell for it :D
[14:15] <ricotz> right, the jonathonf ppa is a bit problematic
[14:16] <alkisg> 2018-05-01 Firefox ESR 52.8 will be the last release and therefore a switch on 2018-06-26 to Firefox ESR 59.2 will be required. ==> will that one still support flash? and java plugins?
[14:16] <ricotz> this will have to be determined
[14:17] <ricotz> the current nightly is still 58, so a lot of movement until then
[14:18] <ricotz> this is a disclaimer while the security support with cease then
[14:18] <alkisg> ricotz: ty; although for "rel" that was asking, 14.04 build failed in the ppa
[14:18] <alkisg> So he wouldn't be able to use esr anyway
[14:19] <ricotz> only arm64 failed
[14:19] <alkisg> You're right, sorry
[14:22] <alkisg> The only downside I saw so far, it's the firefox icon in mate-panel missing after installing firefox-esr and removing firefox
[14:23] <ricotz> alkisg, of course it has its own desktop-file
[14:23] <ricotz> so you need to renew the link
[14:23] <alkisg> Sure,mate could be using alternatives for that
[14:23] <alkisg> It's the same for binaries, icons, manpages etc
[14:24]  * alkisg doesn't like manually doing per-user things, as in some cases that means they need to be done for thousands of students...
[14:25] <ricotz> you don't use armhf ltsp server/clients though?
[14:26] <ricotz> btw is the 16.04 xorg-hwe stack working on ltsp clients?
[14:27] <ricotz> last time I dared to upgrade ldm didn't came up
[14:38] <alkisg> ricotz: I've written a how-to for rpi on ltsp, and I've troubleshooted it on request a few times, but I'm not using it in any schools,
[14:38] <alkisg> the xorg-hwe stack runs fine, using it in many schools
[14:39] <ricotz> alkisg, let me emphasise that, I have the xorg-hwe on the server and it runs fine, but not on the client
[14:40] <alkisg> I'm using ltsp-pnp, so server=client
[14:40] <alkisg> Clients are p4, dual cores, i3, i5...
[14:40] <ricotz> interesting
[14:40] <alkisg> I only had a few issues with some ancient cards. Really ancient
[14:40] <ricotz> still having ndb/tftp images here
[14:40] <alkisg> Some s3 savage or sis, that came before geforce 400
[14:41] <alkisg> ltsp-pnp is using tftp and nbd as well
[14:41] <alkisg> It just doesn't use a chroot, as it copied the server / as a template
[14:41] <alkisg> (while cleaning it up)
[14:41] <alkisg> We even added a new ltsp GUI tool, called ltsp-manager, in debian experimental a couple of months ago
[14:41] <ricotz> ah so it still have a "static" image to run from
[14:41] <alkisg> Yes it does have a read only image
[14:42] <alkisg> ltsp-manager automates all that via gui, and it also adds user management features
[14:42] <ricotz> will try to have a look at this soon then
[14:42] <alkisg> (e.g. create accounts for 10 classes, each with 20 students)
[16:00] <sara__> hi
[16:00] <sara__> jmd on
[16:00] <sara__> hallo
[19:52] <_ProfP> hi
[20:02] <_ProfP> Running MATE 17.10 on one desktop with two monitors. my main monitor is the right one. so all my desktop icons are placed here
[20:02] <_ProfP> My problem: after very log-on ALL the icons are moved to the left monitor
[20:02] <_ProfP> Any ideas on how to overcome this?
[20:02] <_ProfP> this is what XRANDR says: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25867236/
[20:08] <tom76> hello, can i ask question about a strange ubuntu mate behaviour here
[20:09] <tom76> running ubuntu mate 16 lts since a while.. works great.. since yesterday, i changed my audio to go true HDMI instead of regular analog plug
[20:10] <tom76> after some hours working on the computer.. and afters some standby
[20:10] <tom76> my volume up/down keys ..  the onscreen popup comes up, .. but increasing or decreasing the volume doesnt work anymore .. have to reboot to fix it
[20:12] <tom76> But , i can still use the mouse to increase/decrease the sound
[20:13] <tom76> if i'm in the wrong place to ask (sorry then)
[22:01] <donnie> hi