[03:38] <lotuspsychje> morning guys
[03:38] <oerheks> heya lotus
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: early or late?
[03:43] <oerheks> cannot sleep, again..
[03:44] <oerheks> reading the news, if no-one filed a sexual complaint, you mean nothing in Hollywood
[03:46] <lotuspsychje> easzero: welcome
[03:58] <lotuspsychje> !info jupyter
[06:04] <EriC^^> morning all
[06:04] <oerheks> heya eric
[06:05] <EriC^^> hey oerheks
[06:06] <oerheks> new Star Wars-trilogy comming, without those silly Skywalkers \0/
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[06:07] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> i never liked starwars
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> did you check jungle 2017 EriC^^
[06:10] <EriC^^> nope saw the trailer
[06:10] <EriC^^> scary shit
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> based on real story lol
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> gonna watch it also
[06:11] <EriC^^> cool
[06:11] <EriC^^> google banned like 4 accounts for me
[06:12] <EriC^^> i even made the robot take 4mins between each move he does, woke up to a banned account
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> yeah you said that
[06:12] <oerheks> :-(
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> their pretty smart
[06:12] <EriC^^> the problem is that they want a phone number for new accounts
[06:12] <lotuspsychje> they got much time at google, after a swim in their pool
[06:13] <EriC^^> yeah, how'd they figure out the last one though, it literally is making a comment every 30mins or more
[06:13] <EriC^^> lol
[06:14] <EriC^^> when i spammed the fuck out of them, i got 400 pages retrieved in like 6hours
[06:14] <EriC^^> i have to spam them
[06:14] <EriC^^> xD
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:47] <ducasse> good morning all
[06:49] <immu> ducasse, good morning
[06:49] <immu> hey anyone running untiy7 on 17.10?
[06:49] <immu> unity7
[07:02] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & immu
[07:03] <immu> lotuspsychje, hey all
[07:04] <ducasse> brrr, so cold :(
[07:05] <immu> how many as asked before are thinking or at least trying to set Unity7 on ubuntu1.10 :)
[07:06] <immu> *17.10
[07:06] <immu> hey eric
[07:08] <jink> Silly GUI morons. :P
[07:09] <immu> jink meaning
[07:09] <immu> i don't think you have any idea of how good Unity7 is
[07:11] <immu> i am going to run unity7 on17.10 and report bugs for eventual support in 18.04
[07:12] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:13] <EriC^^> hey immu
[07:13] <immu> hey how do u doing
[07:13] <immu> u prayed your friday prayers
[07:13] <EriC^^> i'm christian (technically) and agnostic in reality
[07:15] <lotuspsychje> not unity on artful here
[07:15] <EriC^^> i recently learned how to make tortillas
[07:15] <EriC^^> it's so easy
[07:15] <lotuspsychje> how are you lordievader
[07:15] <EriC^^> i think i dreamt at night about making some
[07:15] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:16] <lordievader> lotuspsychje (IRC): Doing good here, how are you?
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> mycroft make tortilla
[07:16] <EriC^^> haha
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> great here
[07:16] <EriC^^> when will it happen!
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> soon :p
[07:16] <EriC^^> lol
[07:16] <lotuspsychje> IOT is comming to us
[07:16] <ducasse> EriC^^: oh - can you give me the link to that pizza video you were talking about? i've been having homemade pizza urges lately :)
[07:17] <EriC^^> ducasse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCAPjIVOdJw
[07:17] <EriC^^> about the tortilla's i found 2 insanely easily and quick to make recipes
[07:17] <ducasse> EriC^^: brilliant, thank you kind sir!
[07:18] <EriC^^> get tortilla bread, put hot dog in it, wrap it, put a tooth pick, fry it in oil on both sides, put some ketchup and mustard in a bowl and dip in it and eat
[07:18] <jink> immu: I just don't care for GUIs.  I don't usually run Ubuntu Desktop (Server only).  And it's easy flamebait. :>
[07:19] <EriC^^> it's delicious, then for desert, get a tortilla bread, put nutella on it, put a banana in it and wrap it and eat
[07:19] <EriC^^> takes like 5mins to make them both, and it's very good
[07:19] <EriC^^> ducasse: no problem!
[07:19] <immu> your choice jink as you like it
[07:19] <ducasse> jink: no x server at all, just tty?
[07:20] <jink> ducasse: I run Windows, mostly.  Company policy.  And on a VPS, it makes no sense to run X.
[07:21] <EriC^^> even at home you're not allowed to run linux?
[07:21] <lordievader> Auch, Windows.
[07:21] <EriC^^> (that might sound stupider than i think it sounded)
[07:21] <jink> lordievader: Ssssst.
[07:21] <jink> EriC^^: I don't own a computer.  Just my work laptop.
[07:21] <immu> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/unity-7-continuation-call-for-developers-and-supporters/736/5
[07:21] <EriC^^> jink: oh
[07:22] <jink> EriC^^: No offence taken, btw. :)
[07:22] <ducasse> jink: oh, no - that's pretty obvious, i'd say. so you _do_ use a gooey - windows.
[07:22] <jink> ducasse: :P
[07:22] <immu> we need windows for certain things
[07:22] <ducasse> jink: all you need is a tty and tmux :-P
[07:22] <immu> and its better to have a backup
[07:22] <immu> brb
[07:22] <immu> after an hour mate
[07:22] <jink> Last time I used X was some 15-20 years ago, fvwm 1 on FreeBSD. :P
[07:23] <jink> immu: Take your time.  I'll be here for at least another 8 hours.
[07:23] <lordievader> ducasse (IRC): You mean ssh and tmux ;)
[07:23] <immu> sure all
[07:23] <ducasse> lordievader: not necessarily, no :)
[07:23] <jink> ducasse: It's screen, since I haven't made the move to tmux, yet, but sure.  That'll work.
[07:24] <ducasse> jink: i loved fvwm, kept using 1.24r for years and years
[07:24] <jink> :D
[07:24] <jink> Light, fast, awesome.
[07:25] <jink> On Windows I use Cygwin, and I bound a terminal to a hotkey.  Then ssh from there to wherever, and command-line perl awk shell, the works.
[07:28] <lordievader> No Bash on Windows (or however it is called).
[07:28] <lordievader> ?
[07:38] <ducasse> is that wsl (windows subsystem for linux), or is that a different beast?
[07:42] <lordievader> Oh, yeah. That's the one.
[08:14] <jink> lordievader: Windows 7, so, not yet.  Well, Cygwin bash, but not "native".
[08:16] <lordievader> Ah, I see.
[08:32] <jink> https://i.imgur.com/iAuvvCY.jpg
[10:52] <Sveta> https://askubuntu.com/questions/559060/fast-pdf-reader-that-remembers-the-last-viewed-page
[10:52] <Sveta> someone nom it for a bounty or something?
[10:53] <Sveta> i'm personally looking for a pdf viewer with continuous scrolling that remembers the last page that i opened, and is not okular or evince.  mupdf does not have continuous scrolling.
[10:53] <Sveta> so it's similar to that question, but i also need continuous scrolling..
[11:15] <immu> yo amigos
[11:28] <jink> 'sup immu? :)
[11:48] <immu> back
[11:53] <immu> jink, how u doing
[11:53] <immu> hi ducasse EriC^^ have your seen bluecasse
[11:56] <jink> Fine, at work. :)
[11:58] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:00] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
[12:00] <jink> Hi BluesKaj.
[12:00] <BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, jink
[12:00] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[12:00] <jink> . · o ( is het al weekend? )
[12:01] <ducasse> g'morning BluesKaj \o
[12:01] <BluesKaj> fine here, some snow and cold , wintery , how about you, lordievader
[12:01] <BluesKaj> Hey ducasse
[12:01] <lordievader> Rain.... further more, doing good.
[12:10] <EriC^^> hi immu
[13:07] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[13:08] <BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
[13:09] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
[13:10] <BluesKaj> got an arctic blast here last night
[13:10] <pauljw> :) same here, was 53F last evening and woke up to 27F this morning... brrr...
[13:20] <BluesKaj> bright sunshine and clear cold air
[13:22] <BluesKaj> the cold to a certain point doen't bother me much
[17:28] <EriC^^> !ping
[17:45] <oerheks> Hi EriC^^
[17:45] <oerheks> please be save, S.A. is crazy
[17:49] <EriC^^> hi oerheks
[17:51] <oerheks> i am looking at a special bike, silly pricing, bicycle for a wheelchair .. https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-bakfietsen/m1223114177-bakfiets-rolstoelfiets-van-raam.html
[17:57] <BluesKaj> where are the bike's control/handlebars to steer it
[17:58] <nacc> BluesKaj: first pciture is disassembled, it seems
[17:58] <nacc> BluesKaj: it's a nnormal fiet
[17:58] <nacc> BluesKaj: so directly abovd behind the platform/ramp
[17:58] <nacc> *above and behind
[17:59] <nacc> relative to the front of the bike
[17:59] <nacc> 3/9 is a better view
[17:59] <BluesKaj> yeah, but that's out of kilter to my eye
[17:59] <nacc> only in the first photo
[17:59] <nacc> (at least, to me)
[18:00] <nacc> oerheks: pretty impressive :)
[18:09] <oerheks> Yes, the steering bar needs some work
[18:09] <oerheks> but the rest is sound, he says
[18:09] <oerheks> i don' t need it, but i think i can make someone happy, else i buy it myself.
[18:13] <oerheks> this one is 6 years old or so, new ones look like this.. https://www.vanraam.com/nl-nl/onze-fietsen/rolstoelfietsen
[18:14] <BluesKaj> yeah, that's more practical for the driver
[19:03] <TJ-> Recall I reported at the beginning of the Linux v4.14 development cycle that AMD adding sme_me_mask (for Secure Encrypted Memory) into the memory-manager sub-system brokke many modules because it caused any module using PAGE_TABLE to pull in the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL symbol - this broke nvidia and many other out-of-tree non-GPL drivers. I reported this upstream but Thomas Gleixner, the sub-system
[19:03] <TJ-> maintiainer, refused to change it. Well, at the last minute (after v4.14rc8 and before final, it's been fixed in commit 87df26175e67c26ccdd3a002fbbb8cde78e28a19 ... but I noticed in the commit sign-offs: "Despised-by: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>"  :D
[19:03] <TJ-> So disaster averted at the 11th hour
[19:03] <nacc> heh that sounds like tglx to me
[19:04] <daftykins> why'd that fool want to intentionally maintain something causing so much breakage?
[19:06] <TJ-> It was the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL being pulled in via (a very common) use of PAGE_TABLE macros. Inadvertently, but painfully. Linus comments in the commit message that the symbol ought to be in lower layers to prevent it propogating into drivers from the memory-manager, but for now the symbol has been made EXPORT_SYMBOL.
[19:06] <nacc> daftykins: tglx, ime, does not care about out of tree stuff
[19:07] <nacc> most kernel devs don't
[19:07] <nacc> (speaking as a former kernel dev)
[19:07] <TJ-> indeed, and to a great extent I agree with him. What I don't agree on is creating a new GPL symbol that is relied on by lots of existing core code, causing regressions.
[19:07] <nacc> yeah
[19:08] <nacc> also that may or may not be entirely legit
[19:08] <nacc> depends on your interp. of the GPL and whether you get some entanglement there
[19:08] <nacc> while not changing the exposed licensure of an existing symbol, it in effect does :)
[19:08] <TJ-> As far as nvidia goes the legal analysis is identical to the ZFS issue
[19:08] <nacc> yeah
[19:09] <TJ-> you've got a body of existing code with it's own existing stable API. Then you create a shim that translates that API to the kernel's API, and the shim is GPL licensed
[19:11] <TJ-> The argument that the existing stable (non Linux, non GPL) code behind the external API is a derivative of Linux is obviously not true. Where the arguments arise is that the shim is a derivative (and correctly licensed as GPL) but is called from non GPL code which, the argument goes, is also a derivative.
[19:11] <nacc> yeah its' about the limits of the virality
[19:13] <TJ-> I don't agree with Canonical very often (or they don't agree with me!) but from a long time back my legal advice, and my own analysis, says the derivation does not carry into pre-existing separate body of code - -especially in cases like Nvidia and ZFS where that code is cross-platform and not derived from Linux.
[19:13] <nacc> yeah
[19:13] <nacc> that's my understanding as well
[19:41] <TJ-> on another topic, some fab hackers have got full JTAG debuf access to the Intel CSME at last. So visibility into the southbridge MINIX OS and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to a way to completely replace the OS on the southbridge at some point
[19:41] <daftykins> :)
[19:45] <TJ-> Hopefully that plus a reduced EFI (like Google's NERF) will finally allow users/owners to control Rings -2 and -3
[19:46] <daftykins> technically PCHs not southbridges anymore ;D
[19:46] <TJ-> It's quite scary realising there's a full network and device stack running and it ain't running on the CPU the user knows about, but on the CPU in the southbridge on the motherboard
[19:46] <TJ-> true, but the distinction is more helpful :)
[19:47] <daftykins> :>
[19:47] <TJ-> north vs south, I think, makes it easier to visualise the separation of concerns
[19:48] <TJ-> why is there ever a web-server in the MCE anyhow?
[19:48] <daftykins> bit cringe for the remote control features mmm
[19:52] <TJ-> For anyone interested (it's an easy read): https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20with%20Linux.pdf
[21:28]  * Bashing-om ready to have fun now :)
[21:37] <pauljw> hey Bashing-om :)
[21:40] <Bashing-om> pauljw: \o . Good day ?
[21:42] <pauljw> mostly Bashing-om, my primary system had a keyboard failure today, using my standby now...
[21:43] <Bashing-om> pauljw: Backups are good :)
[21:43] <daftykins> :D
[21:45] <pauljw> yep
[21:47] <pauljw> waiting on a quote from sys76 for a replacement...  already have a used one coming from ebay, but it may or may not be in good shape.
[21:49] <Bashing-om> I use an Old Old commadore mechanical keyboard. would really be a pain to adapt to another .
[21:51] <pauljw> seems since i switched to laptops only they're all different.  really don't like the sys76 one, chic-let style.
[21:56] <Bashing-om> pauljw: Being on different keyboards has ruined my typing skills :( getting back out of the habit of watching my fingers - yuk !
[21:56] <daftykins> still itching to get my hands on that clients kids Lenovo to have a go at repairing
[21:59] <Bashing-om> sadly, daftykins - I am all caught up .. not even an old box to linux-install and pass along .
[22:00] <daftykins> d'aww
[22:02] <Bashing-om> The bright side is that I have the time to devote to the fall chores in readiness for Winter .
[22:02] <daftykins> that's a bright side!?
[22:02] <daftykins> :D
[22:04] <Bashing-om> daftykins: When it comes to repairing a roof, or repairing a computer - the computer time wins every time :)
[22:05] <daftykins> :D
[22:05] <daftykins> oooh yes
[22:06] <daftykins> hopefully the case part turns up from aliexpress soon
[22:08] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Living on an island, at the mercy of the "shipping" .
[22:08] <daftykins> even worse from ali, that's China via the slow boat :D
[22:08] <daftykins> the option read "15 to 60 days"
[22:11] <Bashing-om> daftykins: How long does it take you to get to the London aorport ?
[22:11] <daftykins> ah it's a 45 minute flight typically
[22:11] <daftykins> depends if you get the jet (fast) or the twin prop
[22:12] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh you have air servicve on the island ! Wonderful :)
[22:12] <daftykins> yep, costs a good £120 both ways usually though
[22:13] <daftykins> er as in £60 each direction minimum
[22:14] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Well, even so - sure beats walking :P
[22:14] <daftykins> :D
[22:14] <daftykins> tad soggy and cold this time of year yep :>
[22:16] <Bashing-om> LOL
[22:16] <daftykins> the ferry goes to the south coast too, usually £40 each way as a passenger only
[22:26] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Ouch ! They got you by the short hairs :)
[22:27] <daftykins> XD
[22:27] <daftykins> i like to think it's a way of keeping the locals at bay