[00:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_merger build #998: SUCCESS in 8 min 43 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_merger/998/ [00:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_babe build #139: STILL FAILING in 8 min 32 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_babe/139/ [00:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_babe build #145: STILL FAILING in 8 min 39 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_babe/145/ [00:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_babe build #27: STILL FAILING in 9 min 10 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_babe/27/ [00:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [00:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kscd build #54: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kscd/54/ [00:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [00:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kscd build #20: FIXED in 26 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kscd/20/ [00:37] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_sddm build #15: STILL UNSTABLE in 27 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_sddm/15/ [00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kolf build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kolf/5/ [00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kalzium build #14: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kalzium/14/ [00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_ark build #18: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_ark/18/ [00:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_palapeli build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_palapeli/5/ [00:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kmix build #112: STILL FAILING in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kmix/112/ [00:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_trojita build #15: STILL UNSTABLE in 48 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_trojita/15/ [00:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kolf build #17: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kolf/17/ [01:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdevelop build #303: STILL FAILING in 54 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdevelop/303/ [01:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_elisa build #139: STILL FAILING in 15 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_elisa/139/ [01:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_ksirk build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_ksirk/5/ [01:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_palapeli build #17: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_palapeli/17/ [01:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdf build #16: STILL UNSTABLE in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdf/16/ [01:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_falkon build #16: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 6 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_falkon/16/ [01:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kstars build #16: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 6 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kstars/16/ [01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kimagemapeditor build #19: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kimagemapeditor/19/ [01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kalzium build #16: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kalzium/16/ [01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_cantor build #20: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: 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-kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kimagemapeditor build #74: STILL UNSTABLE in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kimagemapeditor/74/ [03:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kolf build #127: STILL UNSTABLE in 39 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kolf/127/ [03:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kstars build #219: STILL UNSTABLE in 58 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kstars/219/ [03:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_ark build #90: STILL UNSTABLE in 52 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_ark/90/ [03:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_k3b build #140: STILL UNSTABLE in 55 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_k3b/140/ [03:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_cantor build #16: STILL UNSTABLE in 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_cantor/16/ [03:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_k3b build #21: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_k3b/21/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kphotoalbum build #150: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kphotoalbum/150/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kstars build #636: STILL UNSTABLE in 56 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kstars/636/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_k3b build #216: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_k3b/216/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #30: STILL FAILING in 39 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/30/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kmix build #113: STILL FAILING in 41 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kmix/113/ [03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kphotoalbum build #18: STILL UNSTABLE in 39 min: 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[04:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_incidenceeditor build #100: FIXED in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_incidenceeditor/100/ [04:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [04:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_ktorrent build #114: FIXED in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_ktorrent/114/ [04:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [04:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kldap build #422: FIXED in 18 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kldap/422/ [05:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [05:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ktorrent build #16: FIXED in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ktorrent/16/ [05:16] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kdevelop build #171: STILL FAILING in 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kdevelop/171/ [05:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [05:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_ktorrent build #118: FIXED in 31 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_ktorrent/118/ [05:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [05:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kwin build #156: FIXED in 35 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kwin/156/ [11:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #1907: SUCCESS in 1 min 2 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/1907/ [11:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #1907: SUCCESS in 1 min 9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/1907/ [11:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #1907: SUCCESS in 3 min 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/1907/ [12:37] Hiyas all [12:39] hi BluesKaj [12:39] did you try falkon? [12:41] !info libsasl2-dev [12:41] libsasl2-dev (source: cyrus-sasl2): Cyrus SASL - development files for authentication abstraction library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 262 kB, installed size 754 kB [12:42] !info libsasl2-dev unstable [12:42] libsasl2-dev (source: cyrus-sasl2): Cyrus SASL - development files for authentication abstraction library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.1.27~101-g0780600+dfsg-3 (unstable), package size 315 kB, installed size 787 kB [12:43] why is ours smaller? [12:43] seems to be missing stuff [12:52] clivejo, yes I did, but can't zoom the pages to make them fit [12:53] CTRL + works for me [12:53] how did you install it? [12:53] yeah, but not here [12:54] first i used snap, then your ppa , neither version would zoom [12:54] even via the menu? [12:56] via the menu, cli, no difference [12:57] I mean Hamburger menu > View > Zoom In [12:58] maybe you have a system key binding preventing Ctrl + from working [12:59] no view option there [12:59] nope ctl + worls on FF and chrome [12:59] on the title bar? [12:59] works even [13:01] can you try CTRL + SHIFT and tap + [13:02] yup , that works, thanks [13:03] if you + symbol is above the = symbol you need to shift it [13:04] I have a separate number pad with a + key and that works without the shift [13:05] CTRL + zero number resets the zoom [13:12] ok, I'm impressed with falkon's handling of web video on my low end DSL internet service. Both chrome and FF begin stopping and bufering on the cbc news national which seems to be a difficult video for the 2 biggies to handle , Falkon handles it with aplomb [13:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [13:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_ksmtp build #11: FIXED in 12 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_ksmtp/11/ [13:48] I'm impressed with falkon overall handling and speed [13:55] @CliffordTheBigRedDoggie what version ? master? [13:55] Bluskaj did you tried new FF ? [14:02] marcinsagol, yes it still buffers video on my dsl connection, whereas falkon does not....so far [14:03] trying figure out the bookmark importation procedure, seems a bit clunky , like the old konqueror [14:25] clivejo, gave you managed to place any imported books in the bookmarks toolbar on falkon? [14:26] have [14:40] press ctrl+shift+o and then drug and drop them where you want [14:46] blaze, no luck with that [15:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #1908: SUCCESS in 55 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/1908/ [15:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #1908: SUCCESS in 59 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/1908/ [15:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » swy-01 build #1908: SUCCESS in 3 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=swy-01/1908/ [16:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdevelop build #305: STILL FAILING in 23 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdevelop/305/ [16:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kdevelop build #172: STILL FAILING in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kdevelop/172/ [16:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdevelop build #20: STILL FAILING in 33 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdevelop/20/ [16:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_stable_kdevelop build #149: UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_stable_kdevelop/149/ [16:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdevelop build #306: STILL FAILING in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdevelop/306/ [16:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_stable_kdevelop build #17: UNSTABLE in 55 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_stable_kdevelop/17/ [16:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_stable_kdevelop build #153: UNSTABLE in 55 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_stable_kdevelop/153/ [16:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [16:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kimap build #12: FIXED in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kimap/12/ [16:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_babe build #147: STILL FAILING in 5 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_babe/147/ [16:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_babe build #29: STILL FAILING in 5 min 47 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_babe/29/ [16:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_babe build #141: STILL FAILING in 6 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_babe/141/ [16:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_kdevelop build #173: STILL FAILING in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_kdevelop/173/ [17:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mbox-importer build #21: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mbox-importer/21/ [17:00] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_pim-data-exporter build #23: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_pim-data-exporter/23/ [17:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdevelop build #21: STILL FAILING in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdevelop/21/ [17:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-import-wizard build #13: STILL FAILING in 6 min 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-import-wizard/13/ [17:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmail build #31: STILL FAILING in 6 min 55 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmail/31/ [17:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_babe build #142: STILL FAILING in 4 min 41 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_babe/142/ [17:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_babe build #148: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_babe/148/ [17:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_babe build #30: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_babe/30/ [17:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_amarok build #16: NOW UNSTABLE in 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_amarok/16/ [17:10] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mbox-importer build #22: STILL FAILING in 4 min 43 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mbox-importer/22/ [17:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_pim-data-exporter build #24: STILL FAILING in 5 min 44 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_pim-data-exporter/24/ [17:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_akonadi-import-wizard build #14: STILL FAILING in 7 min 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_akonadi-import-wizard/14/ [17:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmail build #32: STILL FAILING in 7 min 49 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmail/32/ [17:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project artful_unstable_amarok build #33: NOW UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/artful_unstable_amarok/33/ [17:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [17:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_amarok build #24: NOW UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_amarok/24/ [17:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kmail-account-wizard build #22: FIXED in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kmail-account-wizard/22/ [17:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdepim-addons build #20: STILL FAILING in 13 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdepim-addons/20/ [17:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [17:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime build #20: FIXED in 39 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdepim-runtime/20/ [17:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdepim-addons build #21: STILL FAILING in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdepim-addons/21/ [18:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed! [18:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_libksieve build #11: FIXED in 22 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_libksieve/11/ [18:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #32: STILL FAILING in 32 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/32/ [18:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_messagelib build #33: STILL FAILING in 30 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_messagelib/33/ [19:56] hey [19:56] can I still create in 17.10 the temporary user? [19:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mbox-importer build #23: STILL FAILING in 4 min 42 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mbox-importer/23/ [20:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_mbox-importer build #24: STILL FAILING in 4 min 40 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_mbox-importer/24/ [20:13] anyone? [20:13] I suppose -- why wouldn't you? [20:13] I don't know what you are asking :/ [20:14] all the users I've asked to do that have done so [20:14] I haven't tested it myself [20:32] how do I do it? [20:35] https://docs.oseems.com/general/operatingsystem/kubuntu/add-new-user -- really old screenshots [20:35] but nothing has changed afaik [20:36] https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-linux-add-user-use-adduser-command/ <- cli [20:37] I think he might be talking about the Guest session [20:41] I don't have the option on my Bionic system [20:41] but I think it used to be there in Plasma 5.8 [20:45] I don't know when it was removed [20:45] but don't think it was our doing [20:45] I'm talking about the guest session [20:47] I don't think sddm supports guest sessions? [20:47] it used to :/ [20:48] I remember testing it on 5.8 [20:48] well.. I need it for the scholl I'm supporting [20:48] otherwise I can't upgrade from 14.04 [20:51] lightdm is still there [20:51] didn't Ubuntu have some issues with Guest login ? [20:53] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-guest-sessions-login-disabled [20:57] it can be enabled back [20:58] but why has it stopped working for Kubuntu using sddm? [20:58] but we're using sddm [20:59] I don't remember this in sddm [20:59] can anyone test it in neon? [21:03] test what? [21:04] guest account [21:04] http://i.imgur.com/Nbk8BGa.png [21:05] there isn't one [21:06] but there used to be [21:07] don't recall that in sddm [21:07] I tested it [21:07] around about 5.8 LTS [21:07] cause I wasnt that happy about it [21:08] you found that image on kubuntu forum? [21:08] yes [21:08] https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php/71705-Long-standing-cosmetic-issue-s [21:09] I found that, but that is using a hacky way to add a guest account [21:09] but there used to be something like that [21:09] in lightdm there was [21:10] I haven't used lightdm in years [21:10] I haven't see a guest option for 'years' [21:12] Yes, I think I opened a feature request for a guest account for SDDM like LightDM. [21:12] well this is since me becoming involved in releases [21:13] 16.04 onwards [21:13] vivid used lightdm [21:13] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345404 [21:13] KDE bug 345404 in kcm_sddm "SDDM does not present Guest Login" [Wishlist,Resolved: upstream] [21:14] ok, I'm done trying to make Plasma look like freakin' Windows 10 [21:14] it's F-in' crap [21:15] mparillo: yep, that seems right. love how you reported it as well! [21:26] * clivejo shrugs [21:26] I dunno, maybe I'm insane [21:30] join the club then [21:31] la la la, more whiskey [21:33] don't mind if I do. thanks [21:33] none of us is crazy [21:34] I thought that ovidiu was asking about making a new user, which works [21:34] guest session was convenient, but eh [21:44] I need the guest session for the students [21:44] Otherwise the computers will be "broken" in 5 minutes [23:36] I agree. When I think about recent regressions, losing the guest session was the biggest for me. Losing the fine-grained klocale customizations (so I want US currency and numbers, but I want ISO dates) comes in a distant second.