[02:18] <sirru5h> Hey there everyone
[05:37] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> whats your experiences on firefox 57?
[06:00] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just trying 57 out this day . so far pleantly surprised ..it is fast . However, I have yet to get translation to English on web pages to work . On all likelyhood I will go back to chromium .
[06:00] <Bashing-om> pleasantly*
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> kk
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> i dont know about speed yet
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> should be 2x faster but.. doesnt feel like it
[06:14] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I only percieve FF as a bit faster than chromium ( on SSD ) . Not enough to win me back over .
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> i hear you mate
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> chromium rocknrolls
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> surely over xubuntu :p
[06:21] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well, I came into xubuntu from a core install/xfce4 ( if you recall ) .I did install xubuntu for troubleshooting .. and kept it .
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> :p
[06:31] <immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/use-ibm-plex-font-ubuntu
[07:23] <ducasse> good morning, all
[07:24] <immu> ducasse, goodmorning
[07:24] <immu> howdi
[07:34] <lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
[07:34] <lotuspsychje> hi immu
[07:34] <lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
[07:34] <ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, getting ready for work today?
[07:35] <oerheks> morning :-)
[07:35] <lotuspsychje> yep
[07:35] <lotuspsychje> almost weekend :p
[07:36] <lotuspsychje> you guys having a good FF experience?
[07:36] <oerheks> ff 57 runs fine
[07:36] <lotuspsychje> 2x faster feeling?
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> i still doubt a bit
[07:37] <oerheks> not really feeling faster, bing works great
[07:37] <oerheks> ( i use ff for bing, chrome for google )
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> cool
[07:37] <ducasse> \o oerheks - ff is fine here, seems faster than chromium to me
[07:38] <lotuspsychje> perhaps i should test on a clean system
[07:38] <lotuspsychje> ill test later on my artful
[07:38] <lotuspsychje> !info firefox bionic
[07:38] <lotuspsychje> hmm
[07:38] <lotuspsychje> !info firefox artful
[07:39] <lotuspsychje> too early for bugging out bionic
[07:40] <immu> wait and watch
[07:40] <immu> i like the new look
[07:40] <lotuspsychje> watch what
[07:40] <immu> the old UI looked like grandma age
[07:49] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:49] <ducasse> hi lordievader
[07:50] <lordievader> Hey ducasse
[07:50] <lordievader> How are you doing>
[07:50] <oerheks> :-)
[07:50] <lordievader> ?
[07:50] <ducasse> gulping down the coffee? ;)
[07:50] <lordievader> Hey oerheks
[07:51] <oerheks> coffee is a good idea
[08:25] <jink> Koffie is sowieso altijd een goed idee.
[08:27] <lotuspsychje> have a nice one guys
[08:27] <lordievader> Not 5 min before you are going to bed...
[08:28] <oerheks> coffee in bed is not bed
[08:28] <oerheks> err bad
[08:29] <ducasse> have fun, lotuspsychje!
[08:29] <lotuspsychje> tnx ducasse
[08:30] <oerheks> making cookies and bread all day, sure it is fun
[08:32] <ducasse> what kind of cookies? :)
[08:32] <oerheks> dunno, we should plan a surprise visit
[08:41] <EriC^^> morning all
[08:43] <lordievader> Hey EriC^^
[08:43] <ducasse> hi EriC^^
[08:43] <EriC^^> hey lordievader
[08:43] <EriC^^> hey ducasse
[08:43] <EriC^^> how are you both doing?
[08:46] <ducasse> having a quiet morning so far, how about you?
[08:46] <lordievader> Doing good here
[08:46] <EriC^^> same here, pretty quiet morning
[08:48] <EriC^^> hey Bashing-om o/
[08:51] <oerheks> LETS MAKE SOME NOISE!
[08:51] <lordievader> oerheks: ssshhhh
[08:51] <ducasse> !ding
[09:01] <immu> i like Tea chai- kadaak chai (tea/Black Tea)
[09:11] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: What it be my friend ?
[09:11] <EriC^^> Bashing-om: just saying hello :)
[09:11] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: That too is a good thing :)
[09:12] <EriC^^> :D
[09:17] <immu> hello eric
[09:40] <EriC^^> hey immu
[09:42] <Bashing-om> Well, 'Nuff again , Yall take care \o
[09:44] <immu> hey
[12:54] <EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
[12:54] <pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
[12:54] <pauljw> how are you today?
[12:55] <oerheks> hi pauljw, sun is shining here, awesome weather
[12:55] <EriC^^> good thanks, you?
[12:55] <pauljw> hey oerheks :)  bit chilly and cloudy here this morning...
[12:55] <pauljw> doing well thanks EriC^^
[13:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:08] <oerheks> heya BluesKaj
[13:09] <BluesKaj> hey oerheks
[13:11] <BluesKaj> well the new Firefox Quantum didn't live up to expectations on my pc, chrome is still  better adapted to older machines IMV
[13:14] <oerheks> ff 57 works great here, but i have read some noticed issues in speed and cpu use
[13:14] <BluesKaj> especially cpu use
[13:15] <daftykins> is that even with a clean profile?
[13:16] <BluesKaj> a couple of addons
[13:17] <daftykins> what are you seeing it do versus chrome? chrome is still notorious for resource consumption i'm sure :)
[13:17] <daftykins> even here on Windows
[13:19] <BluesKaj> daftykins, actually in my case FF used more cpu than chrome on the web site playing back the same video
[13:19] <daftykins> o0 hmm wonder what the player was
[13:19] <BluesKaj> even with hardware acceleration enabled on both
[13:20] <BluesKaj> using HTML5 every'where addon on FF
[13:21] <daftykins> ah well, always heard FF is a lot worse on Linux than Windows
[13:25] <BluesKaj> yeah , seems so
[13:26] <daftykins> no time for old hardware now, too :)
[13:27] <BluesKaj> yeah, this pc has had HW improvements over the yrs , but I might be forced to look at newer technology soon
[13:28] <pauljw> hey BluesKaj, daftykins :)
[13:28] <daftykins> \o
[13:29] <BluesKaj> hey pauljw
[13:30] <pauljw> i've noticed a big reduction in cpu and memory use with ff57, but it seems slower loading pages here.
[13:31] <daftykins> o0
[13:32] <pauljw> it's also more difficult to determine how much cpu and mem it's really using since there are several instances of "Web Content" associated with it.
[13:34] <immu> hi allll
[13:35] <daftykins> \o
[13:36] <pauljw> hi immu :)
[13:36] <BluesKaj> yeah the best test is to run the same website video on both browsers and in my case chrome still wins with fewer buffers than FF on my crappy dsl connection, but I'm too cheap to shell out for the fiber optic cable option
[13:42] <immu> how many of you all are on 16.04 LTS?
[13:42] <daftykins> got a couple on it, most servers under my control are still on 14.04
[13:43] <EriC^^> good ol' trusty
[13:43] <immu> any reason for not moving onto 16.04
[13:43] <EriC^^> had the best fitting name imo
[13:43] <EriC^^> i'm on 16.04 btw
[13:43] <daftykins> :D
[13:44] <daftykins> just too many services to rebuild without proper planning - also LTS is good until 2019, so why move sooner than you need to
[13:44] <EriC^^> immu: not really, it's good
[13:44] <immu> you on 16.04?
[13:44] <EriC^^> yeah for a server it's definitely a hastle
[13:44] <immu> EriC^^, i mean
[13:44] <ducasse> if it ain't broken...
[13:44] <EriC^^> immu: yeah
[13:45] <immu> ducasse, daftykins i had a hunch for it :)
[13:45] <EriC^^> immu: the only "bad" thing i can think about regarding 16.04 is xchat disappearing from the repos
[13:45] <immu> so will you move to 18.04 EriC^^ when its comes
[13:45] <immu> *out
[13:46] <EriC^^> maybe, i didn't like 17.10 that much, i didn't use it a lot just a vm til now
[13:47] <EriC^^> it feels like a 'fake' unity to me
[13:47] <immu> yup to me too EriC^^
[13:47] <immu> its just to easy the shock of moving to gnome
[13:47] <immu> ease
[13:48] <immu> i am on hexchat
[13:48] <pauljw> EriC^^, hexchat replaced xchat and is virtually identical and supported.
[13:49] <immu> preferred IRC chat app
[13:49] <EriC^^> pauljw: i know, i tried using it, god knows i did, i even tried using the xchat font plug in and stuff
[13:50] <pauljw> oh, i didn't realize there were issues, it just worked here for me.
[13:50] <EriC^^> not really issues, it just aesthetically didn't look like xchat in the end
[13:51] <pauljw> ah, i see, guess i'm not that perceptive... :)
[13:52] <ducasse> i thought hexchat was just an actively maintained fork?
[13:52] <EriC^^> when i like something, i have a hard time letting go i guess, i sucked on my thumb til i was like 12
[13:53] <BluesKaj> that's another reason why i use kde/plasma.....konversation
[13:53] <immu> yeah i understand EriC^^ i am so with you on it, i still like and use unity
[13:53] <pauljw> that's funny EriC^^ , i did too, till i discovered girls...
[13:53] <EriC^^> :D
[13:53] <immu> can we install a newer kernel on LTS releases
[13:54] <EriC^^> yeah there are the hwe stacks and mainline kernels for the more recent ones
[13:54] <immu> how many like gnome over unity?
[13:55] <immu> which kernel version are you running?
[13:55] <EriC^^> the stock one 4.4.0-98 i think
[14:16] <immu> back
[14:17] <immu> i didn't how i quit
[14:38] <immu> EriC^^, hi what happ every one went quiet?
[14:42]  * BluesKaj has bite to eat
[14:59] <immu> how do u do that @BluesKaj ?
[15:01] <BluesKaj> immu, it 's juat an "expression" which i misquoted, it should read "has a bite to eat"
[15:01] <BluesKaj> juat=just
[15:01] <immu> but how did you do it that's what i want to know
[15:03] <BluesKaj> a bite to eat means a small amount of food and in my case it was some bran in a bowl with milk
[15:06] <immu> * BluesKaj has bite to eat | this i want to know
[15:07] <BluesKaj> sorry immu if you don't understand "expression" , thought i made it clear
[15:08] <immu> i understood what you meant, but the way you typed it that's what i want to know, i have seen others also do it
[15:09] <daftykins> immu: "/me <something>" is the above
[15:09]  * daftykins <something>
[15:09] <daftykins> :)
[15:09] <immu> tnx daftykins and BluesKaj  :)
[15:10] <immu> immu /me test
[15:10] <daftykins> no nickname, just start the line with /me
[15:10]  * immu <test>
[15:10] <immu> aaah
[15:10]  * immu <dancing with joy after knowing it>
[15:10] <immu> lol
[15:11] <immu> brb
[15:40] <nicomachus> immu gets a little excitable doesn't he
[15:47] <ducasse> daftykins, you've created a monster!
[15:52] <daftykins> ;D
[15:52] <daftykins> you'll see it every other line now
[15:52] <daftykins> i like the way he's still using <> too
[15:55] <BluesKaj> hehe
[15:55] <daftykins> it's the same as when you give commands in " " and the folks still type it
[15:56] <ducasse> this Azureus person in #u keeps showing up every day begging for help with the same crappy hardware, then either ignore the advice they are given or being unable to understand it due to language problems. usually a different nick, though.
[15:56] <daftykins> ugh i despised those users, get the same thing in #kodi with these idiots trying to use Kodi on museum pieces
[15:57] <ducasse> this is an acer es1-132
[15:58] <daftykins> looks like a baytrail celeron
[15:58] <daftykins> and what do they want to do, take it to the moon? :
[15:58] <daftykins> :)
[15:58] <BluesKaj> my brain wasn't cluing in to what he was asking, after daftykins told him the /username thing I felt abit dense, guess my days dealing with people who's first language isn't english has deteriorated since my parents passed
[15:58] <ducasse> daftykins: do a couple of searches on model + linux - it's a known bad model
[15:59] <ducasse> as in, nothing works ootb :)
[15:59] <daftykins> eh i was just looking at the hardware straight off
[15:59] <daftykins> lawl
[15:59] <daftykins> BluesKaj: i was totally with you for 80% of the way, had no idea what he was getting at :)
[15:59] <daftykins> benefit of fresh eyes
[15:59] <BluesKaj> right
[16:00] <ducasse> me neither, "you want to know how to _eat_?" :)
[16:01] <BluesKaj> thinking this old HP AMD cpu is beginning to get too old, maybe a new mobo, cpu and PSU kit might be in order in the spring
[16:02] <daftykins> was that an Athlon X2?
[16:02] <BluesKaj> amd 52000+ cpu
[16:02] <BluesKaj> err 5200+
[16:03] <BluesKaj> dual core
[16:03] <daftykins> mmm Athlon 64 X2, ouchie
[16:03] <ducasse> lotus has something similar, doesn't he?
[16:04] <daftykins> yep can't be far off
[16:04] <ducasse> must be very patient, running gnome on that with 2g ram...
[16:04] <BluesKaj> yeah Athlon X2, 9yrs old npw
[16:05] <daftykins> 2GB D:
[16:05] <BluesKaj> 6G ram, samsung ssd, nvidia gt218
[16:06] <BluesKaj> crappy interent, seems to be getting slower ....gotta convince the wife we need fiber internet
[16:07] <nicomachus> BluesKaj: it's worth the investment.
[16:07] <nicomachus> even though I never seem to actually get gigabit speeds...
[16:07] <nacc> (pet peeve -- it's not an investment)
[16:07] <nacc> you get nothing directly financially back from it :)
[16:07] <BluesKaj> nicomachus, it's fine service but it suffers from crfeep chatges
[16:08] <BluesKaj> creep
[16:08] <nacc> you can say it's worth giving the giant companies more money than they deserve
[16:08] <ducasse> BluesKaj: remind her how much money you make giving support here ;)
[16:08] <nicomachus> eh, right now I'm getting 913.36 down and 541.52 up
[16:08] <nicomachus> nacc: it's an investment if I can transfer large files for work faster. :D
[16:08] <BluesKaj> one signs for a 150/mos bundle and within 2 yrs itr's over 300
[16:09] <BluesKaj> err 300
[16:09] <nicomachus> I've got a 3 year contract, luckily
[16:09] <nicomachus> $143 for fiber internet and TV
[16:09] <BluesKaj> 200 damn it
[16:09] <daftykins> O_O
[16:09] <BluesKaj>  nicomachus that'snice
[16:09] <daftykins> that's horrific money, even factoring in conversion
[16:10] <nicomachus> It would be $120 if I could get Google Fiber where I live
[16:10] <nicomachus> but the building didn't want to ppay for the install
[16:10] <BluesKaj> the bundle incudes tv service
[16:10] <nicomachus> yep. HBO included free for 3 years too. I feel like I got a good deal.
[16:11] <nicomachus> They gave me a router/ap with 5ghz disabled though.
[16:11] <nicomachus> but I just hooked up my AP
[16:12] <daftykins> so it's actually in there?
[16:12] <daftykins> surprising if nobody has worked out the way to enable and documented it
[16:13] <nicomachus> it's there, they said it just doesn't have the "necessary firmware upgrades".
[16:13] <nicomachus> whatever that means.
[16:13] <nicomachus> they also require me to use their AT&T DNS
[16:13] <nicomachus> but using my own AP lets me point DNS requests to my raspberry pi running pi-hole
[16:15] <daftykins> i'm in a bind for a clients setup where i want to combine two OSs into one server but the hardware is too old to support PCI passthrough :/
[16:17] <ducasse> i pay somewhere around £30-35 for 250mbps, tv and hbo nordic, no dns silliness :) why would you have to use theirs - do they do dns filtering?
[16:17] <BluesKaj> bbiab
[16:19] <daftykins> nicomachus: do you mean the ISP router prevents reconfiguration, or does it genuinely stop you querying say, Google DNS if configured on a device behind it?
[16:20] <nicomachus> it doesn't allow you to change the DNS configuration
[16:21] <daftykins> yeah that's not too big a deal then
[16:22] <nicomachus> yea, so pointing my AP at the rpi for DNS requests is an easy fix.
[16:22] <nicomachus> should be unnecessary, but easy.
[16:25] <daftykins> the AP handles DHCP? o0
[16:26] <nicomachus> no, pi-hole does!
[16:28] <daftykins> so in that case the AP does nothing to do with DNS or telling devices that connect to it anything :)
[16:28] <nicomachus> https://screenshots.firefox.com/RfrtuLqyf17BAsft/107.203.208.128
[16:29] <nicomachus> I'm curious if that link works ^
[16:29] <daftykins> it does
[16:29] <nicomachus> cool stuff.
[16:29] <nicomachus> ff57's built-in screenshot tool
[16:29] <daftykins> think it was more your choice of phrasing than the mechanics of how you run things that i was confused by though :)
[16:29] <daftykins> TJ-: welcome back \o
[16:29] <TJ-> Hmmm; just tried to install 17.10 desktop in a VM. It wants 8.3GB just to install!
[16:30]  * TJ- waves
[16:30] <daftykins> 8.3GB O_O
[16:30] <nicomachus> daftykins: that sounds pretty typical.
[16:30] <daftykins> lots of RAM allocated so swap included?
[16:31] <TJ-> Not very impressed with the Gnome Shell thing either; no categories of applications in the "show applications" chooser and many entries are unrecognisable because the names are ellipsed and  no popup long-form if the pointer hovers over them either. E.g. currently looking at 6 of "LibreOffice ..." !!!
[16:32] <nicomachus> TJ-: just use rofi
[16:32] <daftykins> it's an odd year, so i'm turned off by both releases :)
[16:32] <TJ-> daftykins: 3GiB RAM.. thing is, it should direct the user to do a custom disk config, not just offer to Quit without any explanation or even link to help wiki
[16:33] <daftykins> oh ok it didn't even do the old "guided/manual/entire disk" step?
[16:33] <TJ-> I'm in the 'Try Ubuntu' session right now; will see what I can do to hack the thing into submission. I swear modern 'developers' have absolutely no concept of usabilty nor conservation of resources!
[16:34] <TJ-> daftykins: no, this is the first step after Language
[16:34] <daftykins> ouch
[16:34] <TJ-> No very user friendly
[16:38] <TJ-> Reminds of a Hacker News comment thread I was reading earlier today, about Microsoft releasing an update to the Office Equation Editor, and some bright spark had spotted that they actually shipped a binary patch that altered about 40 bytes with new machine-code (assembly instructions) in the installed binary. Lots of dev's shouting about oh, MS must have lost the source-code and how terrible it was.
[16:38] <TJ-> Then someone pointed out that parts of equation-editor are binary blobs inside Office documents and therefore the entry points for functions couldn't be changed, and others figured out the original 80-odd bytes had been reduced to very effecient 60-odd, and another hacker re-wrote it to use just 32 :) ... See... that's PROGRAMMING!
[16:39] <TJ-> The point being, a rebuild from source would change the function entry points and break backward compatibility, but a binary patch won't
[16:39] <daftykins> so it just leaves more blank space?
[16:39] <TJ-> Yes, and fixes a bug to boot :)
[16:40] <TJ-> Just insert No-Ops instructions in the bytes that are no longer used. Classic patching technique
[16:40] <TJ-> Hmmm... 17.10 Try... desktop has gone to a big clock. I'm clicking all over but can't get back to the desktop; any ideas?
[16:41] <daftykins> ctrl do anything? virt tech 'engagement' not made?
[16:42] <TJ-> pointer is working; i can pull down the 'power' task-bar icon sub-menu and so on
[16:42] <TJ-> This reminds me pointedly why I dropped Gnome/Unity many years ago!
[16:44] <TJ-> Tried hitting all manor of keys too but no sign it is reacting. CPU usage is low so it's not spinning on something
[16:52] <ducasse> i read somewhere you need to 'drag' down or up the lock screen like on a touch device
[16:52] <daftykins> ugh
[16:53] <TJ-> haha... thanks... I'll try that... once I've figure out how to wake the thing up! I pressed the || (pause button) on the sub-menu that shows up when clicking on the sound icon top-right and it seems to have suspended the VM! Now I cannot figure out from the VM how to simulate a power-on. Tried all the obvious things, including stopping/restarting the VM itself
[16:53] <ducasse> not tried it myself, though, but it sounds like a move the gnome devs would make
[16:54] <TJ-> It's terrible! what idiot thinks using the symbol for pausing sound/video, on a menu that includes a sound volume control, should suspend the thing!? for that matter, why does the power icon and sound icon share the same sub-menu!?
[16:56] <daftykins> those sound so ridiculous as to almost make me want to download it and see for myself
[16:56] <TJ-> daftykins: I am only doing it to try to reproduce that issue yesterday where sudo freezes when system is offline
[16:57] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:57] <TJ-> But this is plain silly! Can't find a way to have 'virt manager' send a power-resume event - only has options (in GUI) for typical Alt+Ctrl keypresses etc
[16:58] <TJ-> Common theme here.. RedHat employs the primary devs!
[16:58] <TJ-> I used to admire RH engineering but the last few years... not so much
[16:58] <ducasse> daftykins: </me points thumb at TJ- and whispers> - he'll blow any second now
[16:59] <ducasse> ;)
[17:03] <nicomachus> 11:01 < ipatrol> Of course, my install is littered with PPAs because I have a
[17:03] <nicomachus> frequent need for bleeding-edge software
[17:03] <nicomachus> 11:02 < ipatrol> I'd probably be on Arch if I didn't have enough headaches
[17:03] <nacc> stupid.
[17:03] <ducasse> ...but he's still on 16.10
[17:03] <nicomachus> already
[17:04] <nicomachus> I popped in, read that, popped out
[17:04] <daftykins> 'frequent need' ? :)
[17:05] <daftykins> frequent need for problems more like
[17:07] <nicomachus> he keeps making less and less sense.
[17:07] <nacc> yep, full of horse doodoo
[17:08] <ducasse> it's friday again, sure enough - the crazies are coming for the weekend
[17:10]  * nacc adds to the ignore
[17:12] <BluesKaj> wait tiltomorrow , there'll be trolls and nutters galore
[17:12]  * nacc is looking forward to being out of the office for the next while, even if it will be stressful. Won't have to think about #ubuntu.
[17:14] <daftykins> :)
[17:15] <TJ-> well! ... it won't wake up even using "virsh dompmwakeup"
[17:15] <leftyfb> oh right, the whole shutting down the last week of the year
[17:15] <leftyfb> that was kinda nice
[17:15] <nacc> leftyfb: i'm out before that
[17:16] <TJ-> nacc: swap with you! :D
[17:16] <leftyfb> ah
[17:16] <nacc> TJ-: if you want to deal with the stress of an international adoption for me :)
[17:17] <TJ-> nacc: easy... compared to working around RH bugs!
[17:17] <nicomachus> did he leave?
[17:18] <TJ-> OK, so, in Virt Manager, powered-off the VM. Restarted it, drops to UEFI shell... why? Because the ISO I'd connected during configuration has been dropped from the config (presumably on the assumption it was only used to install and power-off means no longer needed)... but no link to the original ISO remains. Surely it's obvious that in managing VMs this way the user might need/want to at least know
[17:18] <TJ-> where the image was installed from?
[17:20] <leftyfb> i've noticed that
[17:20] <immu> https://launchpad.net/~dale-f-beaudoin
[17:21] <nacc> immu: ?
[17:22] <immu> team or guy which will work towards having a separate unity7 desktop or distro
[17:23] <immu> https://launchpad.net/~unity7maintainers
[17:30] <immu> for those who want to see a seperate Unit7 based distro spin
[17:32] <TJ-> OK, stuck with the 17.10 desktop clock again!
[17:33] <TJ-> aha! I randomly hit keys and it cleared it. I wish I'd checked which key!
[17:54] <immu> how many would wish to see a seperate unity7 based flavour of ubuntu
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:59] <ducasse> my my, lotuspsychje is here! wb :)
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> yayy weekend!
[17:59] <BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
[17:59]  * ducasse blows his kazoo
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> how was your day ducasse lol
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[17:59] <TJ-> OK, stuck at the U.G desktop 'screensaver' clock again and cannot find the random key I pressed last time to unlock it! Any ideas?
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
[17:59]  * TJ- waves
[18:00] <lotuspsychje> gnome has a screensaver?
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> !info gnome-screensaver
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> this one TJ- ?
[18:07] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: had a good day here, getting troll-y now. you?
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/ubuntu-unity-remix
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: nice day at work about to watch the voice of flanders
[18:08] <ducasse> will you be participating next year? ;)
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> miauw sure
[18:09]  * lotuspsychje gets another beer to smear throat
[18:10] <lotuspsychje> have a nice evening guys, tv time
[18:19] <immu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~twocamels/archive/
[18:19] <immu> ubuntu-unity-amd64.iso
[19:08] <immu> hi all EriC^^ i am on unity7 on 17.10
[19:08] <immu> ducasse, lordievader
[19:09] <immu> ubuntu feels so much faster with Unity7.x
[19:10] <daftykins> versus which desktop environment?
[19:10] <immu> gnome
[19:10] <immu> the 3.26.1
[19:10] <daftykins> oh so 17.10 default? not seen it yet
[19:12] <immu> meaning daftykins
[19:14] <nacc> unity7 wasn't the discussio anyways!
[19:14] <nacc> it was about unity8
[19:14] <immu> yeah i am on 17.10 but running Unity7 as DE
[19:14] <nacc> gnome works great, i have no issues with it, and have not since 16.04 and i hate unity
[19:14] <nacc> don't force that garbage down my throat :)
[19:15] <oerheks> wobbly windows
[19:15] <oerheks> i need it, so..
[19:15] <nacc> lol
[19:15] <nacc> i was into that ... a while ago
[19:15] <nacc> and then realized it was nonise
[19:15] <nacc> *noise
[19:16] <oerheks> well, it is like flightsimulator or a race game, non-serious cpu use
[19:16] <immu> Unity7 is the best DE ever
[19:16] <TJ-> same here nacc was into GUIs... then realised they're noise. console rules :D
[19:17] <nacc> yeah, i don't want my DE to be a game
[19:17] <daftykins> space invaders!
[19:17] <TJ-> Unity was worse than Gnome (that's saying something!) on my laptop's primary config
[19:17] <daftykins> dodge the angry processes to keep them running
[19:17] <nacc> also I need every precious cpu cycle i can get when i'm doing builds locally
[19:17] <nacc> TJ-: same here, which is why i switched to ubuntu gnome immediately
[19:18] <TJ-> nacc: ahhh... I use distcc and hand them off to other systems :)
[19:18] <oerheks> builds of bitcoins?
[19:18] <nacc> oerheks: ubuntu pacakges
[19:18] <oerheks> oh :-D
[19:18] <nacc> oerheks: for your consumption :)
[19:18] <nacc> (well source packages)
[19:18] <nacc> also i am the maintainer of git-ubuntu, and all of htat work
[19:18] <nacc> importing a source package repository takes a lot of cpu and disk (mostly disk)
[19:19] <oerheks> yeah, i read you sometimes in #ubuntu-hardening
[19:19] <TJ-> nacc: I'm investigating switching to MAAS for managing my entire estate from my custom scripts since I discovered it even supports my power CDUs, so it can do the power on/off of nodes as required.
[19:20] <nacc> oerheks: yeah :)
[19:20] <TJ-> although having sat in the #maas channel for a few weeks, and seen the number of bug reports relating to obvious situations the dev's should have coded for, I'm holding off.
[19:20] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, my team works closesly with the maas folks
[19:20] <nacc> TJ-: it's supposed to be nice, but i do't have enough hardware to deal with it
[19:20] <nacc> although it can do lxd and vm provisioning
[19:20] <nacc> so might be worth setting it up just to manage my older/larger desktop
[19:20] <TJ-> nacc: yes, that's what attracted me... being able to control bare-metal through container bring-up
[19:21] <nacc> TJ-: yeah
[19:21] <nacc> TJ-: the idea is sound. I think the newer releases of maas are better
[19:21] <nacc> and i think they are snappinng it as well
[19:21] <nacc> so fixes are comig out quickly
[19:21] <TJ-> right now I've a bunch of flexible shell scripts that run on a raspi ... not sure the maas controllers would be OK on that
[19:21] <nacc> TJ-: not sure either
[19:22] <TJ-> I can go from 0 watts power draw to several KW in a few seconds right now (raspi is battery powered, solar/wind trickle charging)
[19:22] <nacc> heh
[19:24] <TJ-> as long as the router has a link I can bring up and launch jobs from anywhere and know the hardware will power off once the jobs are done
[19:25] <TJ-> still trying to figure out how to tie ubiquity's hands and let me install :)
[19:25] <TJ-> I hate software that thinks it knows better than me
[19:27] <nacc> TJ-: have you tried subiquity out yet?
[19:27] <nacc> TJ-: or possibly, have you tried just using cloud images and cloud-init?
[19:28] <TJ-> not for launching from a VM for desktop no. I have been meaning to try server-ubiquity
[19:29] <nacc> yeah, i know there's a lot of time goign into it, but i also haven't really looked at it
[19:30] <nacc> it's all being done by foundations right now and not the server team, oddly :)
[19:31] <TJ-> well makes sense; I used to hack on ubiquity and it's a code-base you really have to be 'inside' to work on.
[19:31] <TJ-> without a deep understanding of d-i too, you're toast
[19:32] <TJ-> there are so many workarounds and hacks in there too
[19:41] <nacc> TJ-: true true
[19:55] <nacc> TJ-: oh you might also be interested in the new minimal cloud images
[19:55] <nacc> not sure if they are being published yet
[19:55] <nacc> but that might also be handy for your env, depending
[19:56] <TJ-> how much more minimal can they get?!
[19:57] <nacc> TJ-: oh very
[19:57] <nacc> the cloud images are closer to a server install
[19:57] <nacc> the minimal will be ... fully trimmed, i thinkn
[19:57] <TJ-> my container images are already extremely small; not sure what more could be removed from them
[19:57] <nacc> TJ-: do you have your own images?
[19:58] <nacc> TJ-: or are you using ubuntu: or images: ?
[19:59] <TJ-> my own images
[19:59] <nacc> ah sure
[20:00] <TJ-> for bug testing I pull ubuntu: images
[20:00] <nacc> right, these are the 'official' cloud images that are getting minified
[20:00] <nacc> (i believe)
[20:00] <TJ-> they should be around 250MB
[23:35] <Ben64> how can i build stuff for my own ppa? having problems with dependencies and the documentation seems to be lacking
[23:38] <Bashing-om> Ben64: Guys in #ubuntuforums have there own . might get some pointers there .
[23:43] <TJ-> Bashing-om: what are you trying to do? usually I test build in a local pbuilder or schroot
[23:43] <TJ-> ooops
[23:43] <TJ-> Ben64: what are you trying to do? usually I test build in a local pbuilder or schroot
[23:43] <Ben64> trying to get a newer version of qemu into xenial
[23:43] <TJ-> only after that works do I dput it to LP
[23:44] <Ben64> pbuilder complains about dependencies, but i don't know how to tell it to use a newer version
[23:44] <TJ-> can you show the log messages?
[23:44] <Ben64> i'll have to re-run it
[23:44] <TJ-> Ben64: if underlying packages have been updated too, they need installing into the pbuilder at build time
[23:44] <TJ-> is that what you've had to do?
[23:45] <Ben64> pbuilder wouldn't take multiple files as input
[23:45] <Ben64> but i'm sure i'm not doing it right
[23:45] <TJ-> I wrote a script that automates it, a hook, let me see if i can find it
[23:46] <TJ-> here's my original write-up/instructions/scripts http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/Ubuntu/Packages/CreatingPbuilderVariations
[23:46]  * nacc highly recomends sbuild over pbuilder, tbh
[23:47] <nacc> and/or use `git ubuntu build` :)
[23:47] <TJ-> yes, my instructions are 10 years+ old (but still work)
[23:47] <nacc> Ben64: tbh, updating qemu into an older distro is a pain
[23:47] <nacc> Ben64: the dependencies are hellish
[23:47] <nacc> Ben64: you need a fair number of updated libs
[23:47] <nacc> although someone else asked something else recently
[23:48] <nacc> if you point your ppa to use backports you might be able to backportpackage it
[23:48] <nacc> i do not recommend doingn it on your own system unless you don't want to use it for anything else for a while
[23:49] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, some people love pbuilder. I found it a pain to setup. sbuild is too, but you just do it once, and our team has a relatively straightforward method to do it
[23:49] <nacc> LXD is what `git ubuntu build` ends up using
[23:49] <nacc> similar but not exactly like what the buildd do for actual building of packages
[23:49] <TJ-> interestingly, in my article, I mention i was building KVM in the "Cross-compiling architecture problems" section :) So I must have been doing what Ben's doing
[23:49] <Ben64> for a bit i grabbed artful's qemu but that was ... difficult to undo
[23:49] <TJ-> thank goodness i cannot remember all this stuff I've done :)
[23:50] <nacc> TJ-: :)
[23:50] <nacc> Ben64: what's your end goal?
[23:50] <Ben64> to just have a newer qemu, so ryzen works better in the VM
[23:50] <nacc> Ben64: do you use virt-manager/libvirt ?
[23:50] <Ben64> yeah
[23:51] <nacc> Ben64: yeah, so you'll have to build that too, i think
[23:51] <nacc> (iirc because libvirt knows about qemu's cli syntax and when it changes)
[23:51] <nacc> and 2.5 may not be compatible to 2.10
[23:51] <nacc> Ben64: so ... do you want the version in artful?
[23:51] <Ben64> or maybe i can wait till april and just go to 18.04 :)
[23:51] <nacc> heh
[23:51] <nacc> yeah, that'd be 'easiest'
[23:51] <Ben64> i just figured artful is the latest
[23:52] <nacc> Ben64: ok, i'd just try a backportpacakge
[23:52] <Ben64> from what i've seen, 2.6+ works with ryzen
[23:52] <TJ-> Ben64:  you could try running 17.10 as a privileged LXD container :)
[23:52] <Ben64> i get a bunch of cpu errors on my vm now, and something crashes my computer on occasion, but i think that's a GPU thing
[23:53] <nacc> Ben64: backportpackage -d xenial -u ppa:... qemu -s artful
[23:53] <nacc> Ben64: that *may* fail, but it will probably fail due to debhelper
[23:53] <nacc> which is in xenial-backports, so you'd need to tweak the ppa deps first
[23:53] <nacc> it might still fail then, but it should be somehwat debuggable (just more debs you need to backport first)
[23:53] <nacc> a PPA will use itself for its deps when it builds
[23:54] <Ben64> what's the -u ppa:...
[23:54] <nacc> Ben64: a ppa url
[23:54] <nacc> eg. ppa:nacc/php
[23:54] <nacc> is my php ppa
[23:54] <nacc> (if it existed)
[23:54] <nacc> Ben64: imo, much easier to let launchpad deal with the actual building
[23:55] <TJ-> not using the ppa:~tj/php syntax now?
[23:55] <TJ-> I loved my little squiggle
[23:55] <nacc> TJ-: i don't think you ever needed it, at least not i the last 2 years
[23:55] <nacc> https://launchpad.net/~nacc/+archive/ubuntu/dlmtransition e.g.
[23:56] <nacc> the recommended form is no ~
[23:56] <TJ-> ahh
[23:56] <nacc> (as the field after ppa: before / is definnitionally a username
[23:56] <nacc> (where user can also be a group)
[23:56] <Ben64> ooh, backportpackage seems fun
[23:56] <nacc> Ben64: yeah it's really powerful :)
[23:56] <nacc> Ben64: it cann in turn build locally before uploading (e.g., usign pbuilder or sbuild)
[23:57] <TJ-> I've figured out how to hack ubiquity even when it wants to refuse to install. But it's on the squashfs r/o file-system, so I've now got to use overlayfs with a tmpfs to be able to modify the file! ... it's Turtles all the way down
[23:58] <nacc> TJ-: you can bind mount files in place
[23:58] <nacc> TJ-: would that help you?
[23:58] <nacc> TJ-: i learned that trick recently for hacking an as-installed snap
[23:58] <TJ-> good idea.. for a single file yes maybe... I may be editing more than one though :)
[23:58] <nacc> (which is mounted readonly)
[23:58] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, it depends on usage
[23:58] <nacc> it ends up resembling what you are doing anyways
[23:59] <nacc> given a ro base, but a rw shim on top
[23:59] <TJ-> I may as well use overlay since it'll map over everything then
[23:59] <nacc> yep