[03:01] <robert_ancell> jbicha: not interested in being a DM :)
[05:38] <yetoo> With the new Ubuntu dock extension, is the "Show Applications" button location going to be configurable so that it can be at another location in the dock?
[06:36] <jamesh> yetoo: I don't know of any immediate plans to do that.  The current layout is a compromise between vanilla GNOME and Unity 7
[06:55] <yetoo> What's stopping the activities button being removed and the Show Applications butto nbeing placed at the top?
[06:56] <yetoo> and the show applications doing the same thing that gnome does but searches applications
[06:56] <yetoo> when the suer wants
[06:56] <yetoo> *user
[06:58] <yetoo> If there is a compromise it would be cool to have settings to work around it as there is a 50/50 way a user is going to go about using the setting and order
[07:00] <jamesh> yetoo: there is an extensions system for gnome-shell here: https://extensions.gnome.org/ -- it might have something that does what you want
[07:01] <jamesh> yetoo: didrocks wrote a series of articles about how we arrived at the current design on his blog here: https://didrocks.fr/
[07:01] <jamesh> that might answer some of your questions
[07:13] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:25] <didrocks> good morning
[07:30] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> ça va oSoMoN ?
[07:33] <jamesh> hi didrocks
[07:34] <jamesh> didrocks: I put together a PR to speed up desktop-launch a bit: https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/86
[07:35] <jamesh> still need to think a bit more about how to untangle the user fonts issue oSoMoN mentioned yesterday
[07:37] <seb128> hey didrocks oSoMoN jamesh
[07:37] <seb128> jamesh, just curious did you do some measurement of before/after for those launcher improvements?
[07:39] <didrocks> jamesh: hey! the changes look mostly good for me and nice that you refactor this a little bit, I would put those in a common/ utility files rather than desktop-exports, personnaly, but as Ken is now way more active on this project than I am, I prefer to defer to it
[07:39] <didrocks> however, I doubt I can spot where the speedup is, rather cleaning, refactoring…
[07:40] <didrocks> (also, you might want to run update-mime-database even if the runtime doesn't ship (it shouldn't) ship it anymore
[07:40] <didrocks> and some snaps won't ship a mime cache
[07:40] <jamesh> seb128: no hard numbers, but I can hear my hard drive chugging away when it runs update-mime-database
[07:40] <didrocks> (remember, it's not only for snaps + runtime)
[07:40] <didrocks> yeah, so the speed up for you is to not run update-mime-database I think
[07:40] <jamesh> didrocks: I didn't remove the code that generates these caches: just made it conditional on the caches not existing in the read only snap data
[07:41] <jamesh> didrocks: for gsettings schemas, I checked that it still compiles the app's own schemas
[07:41] <didrocks> (I would separate that in multiple commits, but again, deferring to Ken)
[07:42] <jamesh> (assuming the app hasn't bothered compiling its schemas at package build time)
[07:42] <didrocks> jamesh: yeah, that one is great, even if I guess we can still do more with multiple layers, runtime schemas, precompiled, and app's one
[07:43] <seb128> jamesh, right, I'm sure it has a real impact, would be nice to have some numbers though for pr purpose (if the numbers are good), like weekly newsletter
[07:43] <jamesh> seb128: I'll see what I can do
[07:43] <seb128> thanks
[07:44] <didrocks> I would say, just time the first run manually on 2-3 apps (snap only, snap + runtime…)
[07:44] <seb128> right, should be easy
[07:44] <didrocks> no need to go fancy on automating :)
[07:44] <seb128> "time desktop-snap-bin" before/after on newly installed snaps
[07:44] <seb128> or remove the datadir in between
[07:44] <jamesh> well, I can pretty easily time how long it takes to generate the mime database
[07:45] <jamesh> that's time that simply goes away with this change
[07:45] <seb128> well it's easy do a "time bin" test before/after
[07:45] <seb128> I might have a look if you don't do that
[07:46] <didrocks> we can add time instructions and conditionnally enable it in the script as well
[07:46] <didrocks> like at first instruction and last instructions, make the diff, done
[07:46] <didrocks> (so that you don't have to do it manually)
[07:46] <seb128> I wouldn't add complexity for that I think
[07:46] <jamesh> didrocks: I had been wondering about how to get app authors to generate some of these caches as part of their package builds
[07:46] <didrocks> jamesh: yeah, would be great to get that in the snapcraft helper
[07:47] <didrocks> (the part)
[07:47] <jamesh> didrocks: the problem is that we probably want to run things after the the user's other parts have staged their files
[07:48] <jamesh> i.e. it isn't particularly useful having the desktop-gtk3 part compile schemas only for the application to dump another schema in the same directory afterwards
[07:48] <didrocks> jamesh: it's been a long time and I don't remember, aren't there hooks between staging and priming?
[07:48] <jamesh> perhaps
[07:48] <didrocks> or can a part do something for priming?
[07:48] <didrocks> man, it's like it's been years, I don't remember :)
[07:51] <jamesh> seb128: so, the approximate speed up for new to old desktop launch is going from around 16 seconds to less than a second
[07:52] <jamesh> that's on my somewhat old desktop with a traditional hard drive
[07:55] <didrocks> yeah, update-mime-database was the longest thing running, then, it's gsettings compile schemas IIRC
[08:54] <seb128> jamesh, that's great news!
[08:56] <seb128> jamesh, I think there was a forum post about the desktop launcher being slow, we should comment there with a status update once the changes are merged
[08:58] <willcooke> Happy Black Friday consumers
[09:00] <didrocks> good morning willcooke
[09:00] <willcooke> found any good ps4 deals didrocks? ;)
[09:01] <didrocks> willcooke: found one in switzerland last Monday, didn't get a better one, but PS4 pro for (with optimizing coupon code) 240€
[09:01] <willcooke> nice
[09:01] <didrocks> willcooke: need to send my brother at the border to get it though
[09:01] <didrocks> he is living 15 kms away, should be doable :p
[09:01] <willcooke> You think the Pro is the one to go for?  I figured it was, but then I read some stuff that said nothing really takes advantage of it (which makes sense, you're not going to make a game which only runs on some PS4s)
[09:02]  * Laney upwards nods to the channel
[09:02] <didrocks> willcooke: if the price difference was > 100€, I wouldn't go for the Pro, here, it's only 40€ more approx. In your case, it seems that VR headset is working better with it
[09:02] <didrocks> but yeah, I don't have a 4K tv
[09:02] <willcooke> hey Laney
[09:03] <didrocks> so, if I find a very good PS4 slim deal, why not…
[09:03] <willcooke> didrocks, I've been looking for a 4k TV for the last week.  Waited for today to pull the trigger.  Aaaaannnddddd... no difference in price for any of the models I was thinking about
[09:03] <didrocks> willcooke: yeah, we are not in the US :p
[09:03] <willcooke> so now I dont feel rushed
[09:12] <willcooke> jamesh, seb128 - shall we do the desktop snappy sync today>
[09:13] <jamesh> willcooke: sure
[09:14] <jamesh> willcooke: I'm just writing up a forum post about some startup performance improvements I've been looking at for desktop snap apps
[09:14] <willcooke> woot!
[09:14] <jamesh> this is to improve the first-run startup time for apps using the desktop-launch script
[09:16] <willcooke> nice
[09:28] <seb128> hey willcooke
[09:29] <seb128> willcooke, I'm going to try to but still having a baby to handle today so hangout might be a bit difficult if he's not napping yet
[09:29] <seb128> (sorry about that)
[09:30] <seb128> willcooke, the change from James cut off most of the start delay it looks like, that's nice, he said earlier that it cut like 15 seconds off for him
[09:31] <willcooke> seb128, no worries, I knew you'd likely be out, dont worry
[09:32] <willcooke> Thought I'd ask anyway in case you were around
[09:32] <seb128> technically I've a vac day today :p
[09:32] <seb128> right
[09:32] <seb128> I might join if it works out
[09:32] <seb128> otherwise I think I've an idea what jamesh is working on anyway, we chatted a bit on the channel yesterday and today
[09:33] <seb128> Laney is talking on other channels but didn't even say hi to his fellow desktopers, how rude!
[09:34] <willcooke> seb128, he totally did
[09:34] <willcooke> ;P
[09:34] <seb128> doh
[09:34] <seb128> it was a /me
[09:34] <willcooke> no no
[09:34] <seb128> stupid IRC client :p
[09:34] <willcooke> I was wrong
[09:34] <willcooke> wait
[09:34] <Laney> I didn't technically say "hi"
[09:34] <Laney> :-)
[09:34] <seb128> hey Laney :)
[09:35] <seb128> sorry xchat-gnome doesn't put the name on the left column for /me lines and I somehow didn't see it
[09:35]  * Laney learns how to hack seb128's client
[09:35] <seb128> yeah
[09:35] <seb128> you know how to secretely talk without me noticing what you say know
[09:35] <seb128> damnit!
[09:36] <Laney> :D
[09:36] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:45] <Laney> I deserved that
[09:46] <jamesh> seb128, willcooke: here's the post complete with some numbers: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/improving-first-run-of-desktop-app-snaps/2944
[09:46] <seb128> lol
[09:47] <seb128> Laney, doing ok, it's good that it's friday, baby was sick this week, I had to look after him on the side a few days, didn't get enough sleep and managed to get his cold for the w.e I think ... oh and it's raining. But otherwise good :)
[09:48] <seb128> jamesh, willcooke, great numbers, should resolve one of the top complains with desktop snaps!
[09:48] <willcooke> jamesh, are your computer names based on Futurama characters as well?! :)
[09:48] <jamesh> willcooke: yes
[09:48] <seb128> lol
[09:48] <willcooke> will@farnsworth:~$
[09:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson might be one of yours as well :p
[09:49] <willcooke> jamesh, c_hrisccoulson uses the same convention
[09:49] <jamesh> my new laptop is lrrr
[09:49] <willcooke> \o/
[09:49] <seb128> you guys :)
[09:49] <willcooke> My MythTV backend is hypnotoad
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> yeah, my laptop is called futurama
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> I think Jo's is zoidberg
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> and there's a calculon somewhere too
[09:49] <jamesh> old laptop is morbo
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> errr
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> farnsworth, even
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> yes, my laptop is called farnsworth, not futurama. That would be silly
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> need more coffee
[09:50] <willcooke> I had a two node cluster for a while called hubert and cubert
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:50] <jamesh> I used to have two almost identical systems called bender and flexo
[09:50] <willcooke> awesome
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:51] <Laney> seb128: bad bad bad bad but still OK!
[09:51] <Laney> good positivity
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> I've just brought in my old desktop from the garage that hasn't been powered up for a while. I'm sure that's conrad
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> I should power it up and find out :)
[09:51] <willcooke> malfunctioning-eddie, my old x220, is now retired
[09:52] <willcooke> and my main server is calculon
[09:52] <willcooke> THIS is how you do Fridays ^ ;)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> fridays are the day for discussing futurama themed hostnames and eating bacon and hash browns
[09:56] <willcooke> I concur
[09:57] <willcooke> jamesh, since it's just me and you today, let's use the 1:1 hangout
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> oh, my wifi ssid is "Decapod 10"
[09:57] <jamesh> okay
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> I wonder how many of my neighbours will get that
[09:58] <willcooke> Mine is planet_express ;)
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:58] <willcooke> I think we win the nerd competition today
[09:58] <jamesh> I think they're the same hangout URL anyway
[17:48] <willcooke> night all, have a good weekend
[18:04] <Laney> me too
[18:04] <Laney> quiet times on #ubuntu-desktop :'(
[21:13] <ochosi> awayney: hey there! going to fosdem again next year? if so, let me know. this time we will plan our meet-and-greet meticulously so we finally succeed ;)