[00:16] <tgBot> Mel was added by: Mel
 @malditobastardo, thank you, i really appreciate and super happy to know others share some ideas with me!
 @Flohack, haha, but honestly, the firat thing that comes to my mind is redhat :D all linux but as soon as I end up using CentOS I feel like I'm lost. GNU/Linux is an achievable goal but my ways of doing things are all debian/ubuntu specific and i dont spend extra time testing if it is GNU Linux proof, sobyeah, that is why ;)
[03:17] <tgBot> nirajnikant was added by: nirajnikant
 @nirajnikant, Hello Niraj and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.  … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[03:24] <tgBot> <supri yono> Hi all.. are three any Ubuntu touch/phone for my Xiaomi mi5s?
[03:25] <tgBot> <supri yono> Are there any Ubuntu touch/phone for Xiaomi mi5s
 Hello ,the Turkish group seems to be asking about this device
 I can't remember the result but I don't think it's supported now.
 @wayneoutthere hey
 Russian group is asking more questions about N4
 will N4 support snaps in the future or is the kernel too old?
 @vanyasem, Did Marius discuss this on the Community Update yesterday?
 @Crash_Burn, yep, I remember that
 I am not sure about supported kernels though that's why I'm asking. a person in our Russian chat is concerned about it
 Ok..   Watching the UT update now and he was saying they will stick with clicks.
 But I'm not an expert ;P
 @Crash_Burn, the question does not involve clicks at all...
 I am asking about potential support in the future
 😒
 FOR NOWclicks (sorry for caps) yes.  But one day....
 please read the question
 I already regret talking to you
 @vanyasem, I was just trying to be helpful 😁
 @Crash_Burn, no offense, thanks anyways
 Happy to be of service
 i am a developer and needed some info for an another developer
 so I wanted a rough technical explanation of what devices will support snaps
 and if n4 is included in the list
 clicks are not involved at all
 thank you anyways, have a good day
 I just ordered Nexus5, and as soon as it's arrived, I'm flashing what onto it....
 KDE  Plasma Mobile :D
 "It is build to be potentially running many Qt/GTK/X11-based applications" I need to know if UT limitations are or are not present there
 and need to get hands-on experience with Wayland
 on their website they say it straight: Packages can be installed by “apt-get install packagename”  … that makes me think that I'm on the same page with them. I will continue to invest my time into UT, but I'm skeptical at the same time, because I see focus and effort being made into smartphone scenario use-cases rather than into Ubuntu Linux experience. And I don't believe that UT can catch up in the smartphone aspects to close the gap to
[05:38] <tgBot> I don't see UT reaching a stage at which it pleases regular smartphone users. … KDE Plasma seems to be more oriented on pleasing Ubuntu Linux users, and in providing Ubuntu Linux use cases and scenarios, whereas the mobile phone aspect is just a side-dish, and add-on, not to say a gimmick. Nice to have but not what the value preposition is about. … But we will see how things evolve.
 but I'll continue my work on both UT and KDE Plasma Mobile
 Sweet.. Also, well you can get Plasma Mobile related help in @plasmamobile group :)
 @bhushanshah, thanks!
[07:25] <tgBot> Albin was added by: Albin
 @Albin, Hello Albin and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @vanyasem, The best assumption if you get generic answers like this is: We don´t know. And we really don´t know what will happen. Snaps are not on our worklist ATM, and whn tehy come, there are still a ton of questions to be answered before we get device specific
 But dont start getting rude towards non-developers that want to help plz
[08:25] <tgBot> Usinitafute was added by: Usinitafute
 @Usinitafute, Hello @Usinitafute and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 (Photo, 724x229) https://irc.ubports.com/ot30Q4F0/file_2442.jpg Holly crap!!! notify-send works on UT!!! I actually installed it thinking it owuld pop notifications on my desktop when using x forwarding, but it pops them on the phone!!!
 @Mel, Hello Mel and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/v6S0GEcv/file_2444.jpg $ notify-send "notify-send on UT" "$(uname -a)"
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/p0j1xbz4/file_2446.jpg $ notify-send "notify-send on UT" "How about that now!"
 You guiys HAVE TO include it in the image by default, it is absolutely useful!!!
 @KrisJacewicz, totally!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/1ntBLHSW/file_2448.jpg notify-send -i ~/.local/OpenSoftwareHub/fpc3/lazarus/images/icons/lazarus.ico "notify-send on UT" "Even icons work, whoah"
 so guys, just: … $ sudo apt-get install libnotify-bin
 default image needs this!!! you can write a headless service/daemon that can send these out!
 Nice find Kris !!!
 👍🏻
 guys, support my request on this to include it in the default image
 Can someone put the advantages and use cases of this in simple terms please?
 @Stereofont, Advantage: you can send on-screen native notifications to users … Use cases: … 1. your apps can send notifications … 2. system services can send notifications … 3. you can use it as a chat over the network, when you send hearts to your gf's phone over ssh
 So ping with UT telegram?
 4. Telegram can send notifications :D
 5. you can make cron jobs that check the situation af if one occurs, they pop you up about it
 @KrisJacewicz, +1
 @KrisJacewicz, +
 @KrisJacewicz, So 'battery is 10%'
 @KrisJacewicz, Can it include custom alert sounds?
 @KrisJacewicz, Dekko2 can do this without this package :P
 It it also runs a headless daemon, ask @DanChapman what he did ;)
 @Stereofont, $ notify-send "Battery Level" "$(upower -i $(upower -e | grep 'battery') | grep -E "state|to\ full|percentage")"
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/HmN38mY2/file_2450.jpg $ notify-send "Battery Level" "$(upower -i $(upower -e | grep 'battery') | grep -E "state|to\ full|percentage")"
 @Flohack, sure, let's UT do most typical tasks totally different from the default and obvious ways it is done on Ubuntu Desktop. Sounds better ;)
 forgive my sarcasm, I'm just that kind of person ;)
 @Stereofont, in bash scripts you can run command playing sound right before the send-notify
 you can even make vibration
 @KrisJacewicz, I can filter that out. I agree that a script needs a binary to send messages like this. But please do not put it in such a way that this is the only way to send messages. There are system calls already existing for that, so the binary is a complementary tool, not a mandatory one
 It is good if we could have different ways of handling notifications. Feel free to experiment more Kris! 👍
 @Flohack, you know Florian, while your remarks are all valid, but at the same time the more I continue the more I feel that UT is not really being a community that listens to users passionate about it.  … I am just about to start working on KDE Plasma Mobile platform, and I already see from some amazing conversaations with one of itsmaintainers that it basically allows you to do anything you do on desktop the way you would do it on desktop. A
[09:33] <tgBot> while I am trying UT to raise its value preposition, I can't push it trhu the people responsible for it. I will eventually give up. Other platforms start seeming more open and allowing. … Not directing this directly at you, nothing personal. Just expressing that feeling of fighting against the windstrucks.
 @KrisJacewicz, And this you tell me in a group of over 1000 participants? I like people being excited about this project, but if you are willing to contribute more than just occasional PRs, if you are willing to shape the future of UT then please join our organization (Application form on the homepage). But if you speak like this on our main channel where 90% of people are non-developers, you might make them feel unassured about what they should thi
[09:39] <tgBot> about UT. They might even think we are lazy people not listening to them, since we also dont listen to you. And you make an impression that while we are silent, and you speak a lot, we are also not working efficiently on the project. So this is an invitation, become part of the team. But then, you also need to accept our vision, and yes, our vision is a primary mobile phone approach, with a convergence option included. Not the other way round.
 @KrisJacewicz, This perhaps makes the case for 'flavours' rather than a single distro?
 mgreat thing for me is that I do in fact have a choice. not so great for UT, because so far it struggles to define its value preposition. … If UT is after users seeking smartphone experience, than I'm skeptcal about it. Already abandonned once, can now become isolated and then obsolete, deprecated. Canonical now just focuses on going back to gnome, and reapproaching wayland. But later on, it will be back with unbuntu phone. Only this time wit
[09:39] <tgBot> but with wayland.  … UT may add "wayland support" but so what. What selling poitn will it have at all? Where the value preposition? Smartphone value? Will NEVER be able to compete against android/ios. Freedom and privacy? I think that spot will be taken by Librem 5 very soon. So what value preposition will UT have??? I am trying to create that value preposition, and at times it feels like I'm facing a wall.  … Yet abnother app on Ubuntu Open Store. Great.
[09:40] <tgBot> are all great and nice to have. But this is now what UT can compete for attention with!  … On the other hand, if it becomes a Linux experience that only additionally can also be used as a smartphone as an add-on, an extras, a gimmick. Then the value preposition becomes real. There is a real deal on the table suddenly, a value that others don't already offer a better alternative to.
 @Flohack, I want you to know that despite all this critique all of sudden, I respect you like only few people here. I'm not attacking, I'm trying to lay out my thought hoping it can push some different ideas. I actually do want UT to grow. Being skeptical is one thing, and wishing well is another.
 @KrisJacewicz : What you do is super interesting and appears to add a lot of value to the UT platform, even for us not being developers. Please stay around, because I think UT and its community has so much in store going forward and we really appreciate and need all your work! … UBPorts team: I think we can all recognize that there are different value propositions and that things can be done in several different ways. I understand that there i
[09:42] <tgBot> for UT and that all the goodness brought forward by Kris and others can’t be included in the standard images without consideration. But please, let us all work to keep dedicated people on board to make UT as great as it can be. Maybe including some of the stuff Kris suggests won’t hurt normal users and if so, I see no reason why not to.
 to join a your team would be actually an honour, but I would first need to be on the same page with your vision. I am open to discussing that vision, I'm not fixed in whow I see things now.
 @TomasOqvist, FYI, I'm not saying I'll leave or anyting like that. I'm a big fan of everything that happens here, just I was suppressing sume general frustrations, but ultimately it's all me worrying for the future of UT, not bad wishing. I will stay around, for sure.
 but I have a problem accepting current vision for UT. That's why I'm kind of a lone wolf. I'll listen to any arguments, of any side, but I do not see value preposition here.
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks Kris, I really appreciate it! By the way, I tried Plasma Mobile on a Nexus 5 a few months ago and back then it wasn't usable at all on that form factor. None of the UI scaling worked, but they have probably come further along since then.
 Florian, I feel like you are the right person in the right place, that is why I flood you with my criticism here and now. Not necessarily to convince you, if you could convince me, it'd be good too. But as of currently, I'm not yet convinced.
 @TomasOqvist, Tomas I totally share your thoughts. Me too, I'm not a developer but being this a community, it is good to have people like Kris so committed to improve UT. Maybe one day I'll be so inspired by community efforts that I'll try to contribute in a more effectively manner (not only by mean of money like already I do, but trying to develop some code bu myself, who knows...).
 @Matteo, +1
 however, Plasma Mobile i also Ubuntu (16.04), so basically I will go on with my ATU concept, and UT will be included in it as long as there is no wall that cannot be moved past.
 @KrisJacewicz, Sounds great!
 I can understand both positions here. From Kris and Flo. I thing this need to be discussed privately not here in front of 1000 non-devs as Flo said. Everything else I am with all of you guys.
 Plasma Mobile is quite independent of the base system, so it could switch to arch for example (they already have images based on arch)
 @JBBgameich, yes I'm aware, but for now I enjoy knowing that it is currently running on Ubuntu 16.04
 @JBBgameich, (but there are no plans to do so afaik)
 the reason I worry about UT is because I think it eventually has to do one of 3 things: … 1. Provide value that others don't provide … 2. Provide value better than others do … 3. Provide exactly same (equal) value but cheaper than others do … And I do not know how/if UT is doing or going to make any of these 2 things. Not hating, just feeling it is important to know this. Because the only one thing I know about why UBports is continuing
[10:00] <tgBot> to let it end. And this is noble, but has nothing to do with adressing these 3 points above. All the great work on it is noble, but is is sufficient to grant UT chance for success.
 some more context: when Canonical first spoke of its vision, it was fresh, original and innovative. It got awarded even! … But now there are others who came up with comparable concepts already. Going back to my list of 3 key things, one of which UT would need to be able to deliver on.
 @malditobastardo, I think discussion of central ideas belongs absolutely in this public forum. My view is that we need a good balance of 'sensible' and 'adventurous'. Too much of either will sink the boat. If there are frustrations, I think we should understand that they stem from UBports being small and limited in resources. That demands a certain discipline and within that, in the real world, there will be a certain rigidity. You can't always g
[10:05] <tgBot> what you wanna…
 @Stereofont, yes, I get it
 I agree with Lionelb..
 I understand and I agree with you too Lionel. The good thing about the community is that its very mature. Kris, I dont know much tbh about this. But i think right now they are working hard to get to 16.04, after that I am sure everything will be more easy. About your ideas for repositories etc, you have your blog amazingly well explained why X repos should be included etc, I think now is time to try to make a consensus with the other devs. A
[10:13] <tgBot> mentioned to you, they really want to have you on board. you should think about it
 Sorry about my english, I am also in the phone
 I think most of us here already know your hard work, and we support all of your effort.
 @malditobastardo, actually it is not about me trying to push my personal ideas on which packages should also be included, or about me needing UT core team to pay close attention to how I exploit the system on my own. … I also absolutely love the way @Stereofont summed it up. … My most essential, most directly aimed at this community concerns are about the value preposition in UT.
 @KrisJacewicz, all boild down to this
 Yeah, I mean. Your blog is pretty self explanatory. Of course its not only about packages, its the big picture. Everything is there.
 and other than that I feel more support than I need and I am not trying to steel more attention. I also feel appreciated for my work and all that. That is not any of my concerns.
 @KrisJacewicz, Thats Is why I think now is a good oportunity to sit and discuss properly about this directly with the devs.
 you know, I want to see UT succeed so badly, that I can't but see real problems that it must face sooner or later. I'm not lashing out on it. And I am certainly not complaining about people putting immense effort in keeping UT alive. It's pretty spectacular how well it has worked so far. But what then? If Canonical abandonned its own vision, and even admitted it was wrong, then do we learn from it? Or do we try to prove Canonical was wrong abou
[10:20] <tgBot> wrong?
 which one is it - that's my question
 I agree
 my impression is that UT is now trying to prove Canonical was wrong about being wrong. … My own opinion is that perhaps Canonical wasn't wrong, and we shoudl learn from it, and make UT differently than how Canonical tried to do it. I am questionning the original vision. But at the end of the day, I will follow up anyways. And will stick around.
 @TomasOqvist, Its a difference of just including a few packages for apt preinstallation on the image, which is no big deal, and on the other hand, changing the complete vision that we inherited from Canonical. What a change of vision means: We would have to stop working on OTAs and 16.04 upgrade, and instead start rewriting lot of intermediate APIs for Wayland etc. Probably also exchange core Apps, click concept etc. I dont see this coming all of a
[10:46] <tgBot> sudden.
 Im out for lunch guys...
 @Flohack, I guess you are convinced that UT will do just fine as it is. I wish it does.'
 The fact that we can even debate the future of Ubuntu Touch shows that UBports is doing an amazing job with the resources it has. But I don't feel the project has yet left the "consolidate" stage. … There are fundamental "time bomb" issues at the core to defusing: moving to a supported Ubuntu version and replacing the legacy notification server. There's also work needed to incorporate newer versions of libraries the project uses such as Qt.
[10:54] <tgBot> initiatives such as Halium. … All of that us urgent in the sense that it needs doing to support any possible future. Otherwise the burden of supporting the resulting legacy will increasingly fall onto the UBports team and the project will fail. … Discussing future direction is healthy and important, but don't be impatient for that future. Current efforts are, and should, be focussed on these "time bombs". Once they are defused the project will be in a bet
[10:54] <tgBot> to move forward. That's the time when plans will be needed.
 +1
 I think the upcomping 16.04 release has the Qt and "switch to Halium" time bomb fixed. The latest community update also sounded like there is some replacement for the notification server now.
 @alan_griffiths, yes, UBports is doing an amazing job with the resources it has!
 @KrisJacewicz, Kris, you are also very inspiring with your solution , pls join Florian , Ubports wish to join together current Ubuntu Touch phone concept.
 Where are downloaded images from browser?
 @alan_griffiths, +1
 @milkor73, the only reason I am not "officially" on board is because the things I am interested in exploring on the platform are not what their team is focused on. They carry out the main core work for UT to actually be, and I am focusng in exploring alternative use cases, and doing a bit of hacking. I am not that much interested in the standard use scenarios for UT. Yes, I am skeptical about these standard uses, but I wish to be proven wrong
[11:15] <tgBot> further into the future. … At some point the core team might find it interesting to expand some of my alternative/unconventional use case ideas into becoming part of the standard/default concepts. IF that happens, I'll be ready to join on board anytime! … But for now it is all good. UT is progressing, and I can exploit it. The fact that I have some differences in opinions is not by any means a problem to me, I support UT very much, and I even go out of my
[11:15] <tgBot> … I reckon the concept of "time bombs" and respect the order that has been established on the mainstream work.  … But it is absolutely up to UT mainteiners if they want to invest their mind into any of my alternative concepts. It is not required that they do, however, in order for me to continue what I'm doing. Just that, naturally, since I care, I will want to vocalize my criticism when an opportunity arises. I'd like to challenge you with some thoughts,
[11:15] <tgBot> to challenge me back. … But for as long as I stay without knowing answers to some most basic, most essential questions about the value preposition of UT, there will be some skepticism in me. Still, hope to prove it wrong in the long run, for the best of Ubuntu Touch.
 @alan_griffiths, Thanks Alan for that. This is exactly what we are sturggling with: While we are in the middle of analyzing and understanding what acutally needs to be done, and how we can do it without breaking the user experience for the existing devices (which seemed to have worked pretty well so far) everybody expects that we talk about the future. Will there be snaps, will there be convegence, are you going to sell devices etc... These are all
[11:21] <tgBot> questions for the time "after"... "now" is the time to gracefully move services, understand build processes and try to get a CI train moving so that we can actually deliver smth. And yes, I am on the notifications server, thats one of the main concerns now.
 Are you currently still using the libhybris version from vivid?
 yes sure, there might be a different one in 16.04 and/or halium
 I rebased the mir version on upstream again yesterday, but I was unsure if you have done this yourself now
 There are patches from Canonical inside do you mean this?
 Yes
 https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris/compare/master...JBBgameich:ubports
 This are the patches you currently have on top of libhybris from 2015 afaik, but which also compile on top of the latest upstream libhybris.
 @JBBgameich, That would fit in the Halium channel too, are you there as well?
 Yes, sure :)
 It's just a UBports specific thing
 Is this channel more for developers, users or random questions btw?
 its the general noise channel
 :P
 Ask smth but dont cry if there is no answer one one day, and on the other day there are 100
 it is very indeterministic
 @Flohack, i found out that application form is currently not available on the website, fyi
 (Photo, 1119x340) https://irc.ubports.com/0f5pfAlz/file_2452.jpg
 Ah yes there was smth sorry... I will send you a manual copy ;)
 l
 whoops wrong window
 @Flohack, Agree with all of this
 @Flohack, thank you
 @Flohack, Yes, I fully understand that a change of vision can't and shouldn't be done overnight if at all. My point was that maybe we could implement some stuff that doesn't cause the normal user any problems or create more work for developers. The final direction of this project, I believe, is still written in the stars until we find the best value proposition for UT. I have been using UT as a daily driver for a good 2-3 years now (if not more)
[13:38] <tgBot> there are some things missing that I don't see coming anytime soon. But the prospects of convergence has always been appealing to me, and the
 Hi! There is a way I can update OTAs just using the shell? Because I have an E5 with broken unusable screen, but I am still using it as a developing machine.
[14:06] <dobey> @tronfortytwo you can use system-image-cli to update, yes
 oh I see thanks
 @KrisJacewicz, traitor!  ban him!
 @KrisJacewicz, this is neat.  this seems like news.  don't forget, people, to send us news :)
 @wayneoutthere, Note that `notify-send` will only show an ephemeral popup so you "have" to be looking at the screen to actually see it. It won't persist in the message tray and you can'nt manage the launcher count. libnotify is fine for desktop usecases where you spend alot of the time looking at an active screen. But it popping up in your pocket you would have to be pretty handy to get it out quick enough to see where it came from
 No one wants my opinion, but my opinion shall, of course, be provided for free: … 1. Kris is amazing, intelligent, and excited.  He's also adventurous and has clear goals and sees that there is potential with UT, otherwise he wouldn't be wasting his time here (he is busy … 2. Florian is busy (this is a theme here, btw) and is facing more of the admin/organizational stuff plus he has been around forever.  He also understands many areas of t
[15:09] <tgBot> community and knows what many, if not most people think and understand.   â€¦ Both of you are awesome and all of us are part of this.  HOwever, Florian is partially correct that simply distracting and confusing the current work could be problematic to the faith and excitement around current work. â€¦ However, Kris is only being loud about this stuff because he is either a) unable to see a clear vision from the group or b) is not in line with that vision.   â€
[15:09] <tgBot> should exist.   … Alan also raised a very important point which is that we have a few urgent milestones that require the entire focus of everyone to immediately address.   … I believe we need to: … 1. get the urgent milestones out of the way ASAP while … 2. discussing as a group, in the right way, the clear vision of the project  … This is a big topic and I appreciate everyone here remaining understanding and excited about the future.  As Alan wisel
[15:09] <tgBot> are having this discussion should be very exciting.   … Have a nice day.   … Opinion concluded.
 @DanChapman, @KrisJacewicz
 @wayneoutthere, hahah
 @wayneoutthere, +1 this is a very nice opinion indeed! I'm with you Wayne and with all the amazing developers we got on this platform. Just work together for the best!
 @DanChapman, but the program that uses notify-send can be smart enough to pop notifications when you are loomi g at the screen ;)
[15:43] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, If you want "persistent" notifications. look at: … https://github.com/BigET/NotificationPost
[15:44] <tgBot> <Big ET> this is also a clik package that is in openstore. I have done this a year ago I think.
 @KrisJacewicz, How would it know you are looking at the screen? It's rather pointless if the notification comes from the app you are looking at and all other apps are suspended. so? The current notification api uses libnotify anyway so it's not like something new has been used. The UT notification api allows you to control more than a popup with a simple dbus call.
[15:49] <tgBot> <Big ET> https://open.uappexplorer.com/app/com.edi.npost
 @wayneoutthere, thank you Wayne for this opinion, i appreciate it! … I am not really going to sabotage all the great work being done here with some ideas belonging to a differwnt vision of what a linux phone should be. I have plenty of respect for the work being done here but i also say what i think. I hope I state my criticism clearly for those who care to read it. But that's that and after i said what I had to say i will continue to reapect
[15:53] <tgBot> you guys will do. I am not bitching about things i wish were bit different, i clearly raise my case and break my point of view down to precise arguments. Overall i deeply care for UT to be doing best it can, and that's the bottom line. Lots of respect for people and work, but i still have my own opinions. there is no conflict of interest here though. my own vision can be worked on independently from the work on UT, and suggestions i make arw not so much to ea
[15:53] <tgBot> to ease others to explore ways i explore. You guys be the judges of whether or not its worthwile to consider them. … But yes, i will be also workin with plasma mobile soon and i will be making a lot of comparison. But all that for the better of both platforms, I hope.
 @DanChapman, every single thing you do on app is a message event so you can know if user is interacting with the app and also with the phone bu checking if screen lock has kicked in yet. But that is about "how", whereas "why" is subjective. Some people will find use for this type of notifications, some won't.  … Ypu all guys have your consideratipn for keeping the image light. But perhaps you could design a quota, and a small one, maybe 5 MB,
[15:58] <tgBot> 10MB, a quota for vaguely defined "packages increasing usability" within which quota we could vote for those really tiny packages that could really be appreciated evwn if not absolutely crucial. After all why would UT have to be a frugal OS?
 @Big ET, very nice, thanks! this can be used from command line as well? i am thinking of script scenarios also, like bash scripts maybe cron jobs or deamons too, not only apps.
[16:01] <tgBot> <Big ET> yes. this is exactly the script that send the message. … https://github.com/BigET/NotificationPost/blob/master/output/notify.sh
[16:01] <tgBot> <Big ET> practically is a dbus call.
 @Big ET, highly appreciated!
[16:02] <tgBot> <Big ET> but also if you want to send the dbus call, you have to register the notification sending application.
[16:03] <tgBot> <Big ET> from the terminal you can impersonate some that are already registered, like telegram or npost or whatever.
 btw i also think some packages are only nice to have, while with some other ones it is really weird that they are missing (lile xauth and maliit plugins for gtk). But if a small elastic quota would exist that can be voted for by people from outside of the image maintainers circle, wouldn't that be interesting and pro-consumer attitude? You guys weight pros and cons and decide if such a approach could be afforded or not.
 @Big ET, 1. how to impersonate another app? … 2. howto programatically check/list which ones are registered and thus can be impersonated?
 (Photo, 199x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/KZ7l1bMx/file_2454.jpg Big text blobs today. I'm positive that's a good thing!
[16:08] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, 2. you have to enumerate the dbus objects. I don't know exactly. … 1. look at the notify.sh I've sent you. you give to the method you call over dbus the object in my case it was com.ubuntu.Postal.Post and com.edi.npost_npost
 (Photo, 1280x199) https://irc.ubports.com/k57kRacI/file_2456.jpg Big text blobs today. I'm positive that's a good thing. (rotated to not create a huge gap here)
[16:11] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, This is the question that i have answer before making npost. … https://askubuntu.com/questions/755556/persistent-notification-on-ubuntu-touch
[16:11] <tgBot> <Big ET> it is a thing that on the ubuntu touch (hope this is still true in the ubports image) the twitter-app can be used to send a notification.
[16:16] <tgBot> <Big ET> hey even the wiki still works, tkx ubuntu. … https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/indicator-messages
 @Big ET, I think this is only possible if if the twitter app (or any app) has a push helper. and the notification card is compatible with that helper
 @peternerlich, 👍🎉😀
[16:18] <tgBot> <Big ET> @DanChapman, I have not try to impersonate twitter-app on the latest ubports image, but nport click pakage works on the latest ubports (atleast on my meizu pro5 is)
[16:23] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, If you look at the npost as an example it is quite easy to create your own click package that is registering a push helper so you can put your own icon to the notification and etc. … It is so easy that you should impersonate someone else just for a small one time hack to see it works.
 @Big ET, this is great news for you guus, but i am not working with click so i will want to learn genwric ways of using this. but all this info you provided is awesome thanks again!
[16:32] <tgBot> <Big ET> well, you can look at the scripts that the click installer is running to do the registration. I don't know it from the top of my head, but is strait forward, you have to do some apparmor profiles and call some registration on dbus in the ubuntu.postal stuff. npost can help you with hacking also because it shows how to export a qtquick control that will allow to run scripts from qml. this is what npost does is a qml that runs a bash that sends a notif
[16:33] <tgBot> <Big ET> so the icon that is shown in the notification is registered when the click installs.
[16:34] <tgBot> <Big ET> maybe is (or not) common knowlage, but in UT (at least) apparmor is governing also the dbus.
 @Big ET, i dont use apparmor either, i am not interested in those scenarios, i live them to you guys
 i ise my ut phone like its just ubuntu computer and im not into all that confined aspect for smartphone apps scenarios
 too limiting for me
 when i want this much limits i go to android
 on ut phone i do real stuff not mobile apps
 things android cant do
 although android becomes more and more open
[16:40] <tgBot> <Big ET> You are like me I also use my pro5 like a laptop replacement, but I found that is much easier to write a line in the click manifest and the rest just works than to do a lot of small things to interface with the rest of the ecosystem. … you can create a click package that just register the push notification, you can put there an icon and stuff. And the rest you are doing it like notify.sh just send a dbus message
 @Big ET, i totally agree that there are ways you can use click as a piece of a bigger thing, but i am just not interested in it. i dont mind it, and dont reject it, its all good and has its purpose and audience. but i do things mainly in object pascal and hv very cross platform mindset. most of my code can run on any linux as well as on windows and osx. sometimes i write for linux specifically and even then i dont want to make it to spcific to
[16:44] <tgBot> things like click. but in a system when you diy things sure i totally see it fit :D
 basically i am interested in knowing techniques that use click but i am even more interested in knosing how to achieve same resulta without it, without all thw confinement limitation
 @KrisJacewicz, So to do this without click you cannot use the current notification api. instead you will have to use libnotify for popups and libmessaging-menu for persisting notifications in the message tray. which IIRC both take your desktop file to "register" the app with the service. For the launcher count you will have to use the unity launcher dbus api
[16:51] <tgBot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/view/head:/plugins/Unity/Launcher/dbusinterface.cpp which takes an appId. Not sure if non click apps have an appId?
 @DanChapman, thank you! also that last mention about appid, i suddenly remembered aomething that might be related...
[16:56] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, I had looked at this before I've made the npost app. There are some click hooks scripts on your device that are doing the registration. But the thing is that you need to create a lot of resources if you want to integrate proper. look at: … https://github.com/BigET/NotificationPost/tree/master/output
 but do note that doing it this way bypasses a user preferences for notifications. The user may have turned them off but going this route will not respect that
 i notices that when you open non click app and then go back to thw apps scope and click on that non click app's launcher again, you dont end up getting back into it. you need to manually swap from the right edge to go back to it. but click apps will just get back to front if u click on theor launcher again while they are in the background. I was suspecting it had to do with appid, that perhaps non click apps didnt have it and that s why
 but i am npt sure about it
 Yeah id assume that would be why
 @DanChapman, absolutely, point taken.
 you know with regards to users i totally get the confinement aspect, i really do. but when i am my own user i dont want it, you lnow what i mean? so i understand the click and apparmor design and where it fits. still, for me this is ubuntu linux inside a mobile phone form factor and i want to do have a grewn light like i it's my ubuntu
[16:59] <tgBot> <Big ET> besides the apparmour, you need a json to for the notification helper, a service xml (NPost.service) that will register the sender in the postal service of UT and some other things that I forgot.
 if i had a clear logic with all the steps i could make a command line tool that handles all that and hides it, so it can be used in scripts and in non click programs too
 just lile there is notify-send i could make a vesrion designed to do that
 make the complicated problem seem simple from the outside :)
[17:03] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, if you don't care about the icons that are present in the notification and etc. just the message just do (copied from the askubuntu question that I quoted earlier): … gdbus call —session —dest com.ubuntu.Postal \ … —object-path /com/ubuntu/Postal/com_2eubuntu_2edeveloper_2ewebapps_2ewebapp_2dtwitter \ … —method com.ubuntu.Postal.Post \ … com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-twitter_webapp-twitter \ … "\"{\\\"message\\\
[17:03] <tgBot> \\\"notification\\\":{\\\"card\\\": {\\\"summary\\\": \\\"Some Title\\\", \\\"body\\\": \\\"Some text\\\", \\\"popup\\\": true, \\\"persist\\\": true}}}\""
[17:03] <tgBot> <Big ET> this *should* work on latest ubports.
 @Big ET, wow, beautiful! hahah
 need to sleep, 1am here, will trybit tomorrow
[17:05] <tgBot> <Big ET> @KrisJacewicz, oh well, you will probably come later to ask about how to register the icon, and you will arrive to the point that you will create that simple click. ;)
 @Big ET, haha, possible!
 btw any one knows how to launch external applications from within another application? i`m trying to launch the gallery app from the camera app
 ?
 @Eranuzan, Take a look at the Base URLS parts of the url dispatcher docs. https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/platform/guides/url-dispatcher-guide
 for example, I open the terminal app from within my app via:  Qt.openUrlExternally("appid://com.ubuntu.terminal/terminal/current-user-version");
 Thanks @DanChapman i tried  that but either is missunderstood whats appid is orit doesn't seems to work
 i guess the answer is that i miss understood how to do it :) Thanks @balcy
 you're welcome
 Yay new Dekko 2 version!!! Thanks @DanChapman 🎉🎉
 There will be another shortly. Forgot to bump the service versions to get them to restart. 🤣
 Great more updates!! 🎉🎉
 does anyone know, what could be the reason if an app does no longer appear in the LogViewer app ? Or alternatively, how to start a click app, e.g. webbrowser-app on the phone in order to see why it fails ?
 Thanks everyone for all the translations. you guys rock!
 in the terminal I get "UbuntuClientIntegration: connection to Mir server failed..."
 `webbrowser-app --desktop_file_hint=webbrowser-app.desktop`
 ah thanks I will try that...
 great, now it shows the startup error... just playing around with oxide ...
 👍
[18:00] <tgBot> h4888 was added by: h4888
 Hello. Are there any Experienced JS developers in this group?
 Hello @h4888 and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Thank you @peternerlich but I am not new here :)
 You are not? Great! … Anyway, if this is is going to be a longer and rather off-topic conersation (as it seems to be), could we talk in the offtopic or welcome room? I would consider myself a rather experienced JS developer, though that probably is dependent on your level of experience.
 @peternerlich links to the off-topic room?
 @h4888, You got me there. I have still to receive notice on how to join the off-topic room, but I am in the welcome room. https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhJ4XRotoeGk1QxuRQ
 @peternerlich, @ubports_ot
 @DanChapman, Thank you very much! Gotta include that in the UBFR quick links...
 👍
 @DanChapman hi Dan, thank you for the update, it's good to see the app is improving always better and better. But unfortunately, I noticed I still can't answer to an e-mail by the simple reply button: the app crashes every time I try to reply or the app crashes by itself....Maybe it's just me: I'm on BQ E5 rc. Thank you.
[18:29] <tgBot> dohbee was added by: dohbee
 Hello @dohbee and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[19:50] <tgBot> Gianluca Ottavi was added by: Gianluca Ottavi
[19:56] <tgBot> <Ernst Vaarties> I have the BQ 4.5 and was just wondering. Could it benefit from an upgrade to Ubuntu 16.04 an later to 18.04?
 Hello Ernst and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Will it be possible to pay with the telephone?
 @Ernst Vaarties, I have the E4.5, too. I am not sure about the plan with 16.04, 18.04 and the corresponding milestones, but in the long term, the device will still be supported (as long as it still gets used), but at some point it won't receive new features.
 I have built Halium for it, but someone said he isn't sure if  the Android device tree I used was even working correctly... So as long as nobody works further on that, it won't get 16.04 afaik
 This is because of the resources which are just below the target of what UT wants to achieve. It is designed for high-end devices, which is pretty obvious when you consider the original plans for full convergence.
 Still, the E4.5 is and will remain (at least for my purposes, which are mainly those of a normal reliable mobile phone for work) a perfectly usable device.
[20:06] <tgBot> <Ernst Vaarties> Yes, it is suffice for my needs (calling, texting and Telegram). For the nerd in me, it would be fun to have it upgraded. Will follow UBPorts to see if it will happen.
 @Ernst Vaarties, There's a brand new News Channel to stay up to day without having to scrape this busy group: @ubports_news
 @Gianluca Ottavi, Hello Gianluca and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Cesar_Herrera, Never say never but the truth is 'not soon'. It would have to be accredited by a bank and the payment system. A big obstacle. There are stick on Visa tabs in use in some countries though, so you could stick one on you phone
 @Jaume81, This
 Well, you can pay with bitcoins today, for any place that lets you pay with bitcoins i guess, since you just scan the QR in the wallet app, and enter the amount to send.
 NFC payments is another story, but there's no reason someone with the time and inclination to do so, couldn't get it working on devices where NFC is available, i guess
 @Stereofont, I can tape my debit card to my phone and have this
 And then have them nicked both at the same time 😂
[21:02] <tgBot> m_71_x7 was added by: m_71_x7
 @Stereofont, Thanks.
 Hello @m_71_x7 and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[21:10] <tgBot> <demokrit atomos> @JBBgameich, Is there an image available for testing this? (I dont have a working bq right now but maybe i can convince a friend and then report back ;-p)
[21:15] <tgBot> Rocco was added by: Rocco
 His all.
 Hi
 @Rocco, Hello Rocco and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Thanks. A big demand. How can I install Ubuntu touch sdk on Ubuntu 17.10
 ?
 You cannot, I think. I have 17.10 too, I suggest you to use clickable to develop
 https://github.com/bhdouglass/clickable
 Rocco use a virtualbox and 16.04 ... there is a image in the ubports forum
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/184/ubuntu-touch-programming-course
 Hi guys, i saw this and my question is: can this dual sim adapter work with ut? … http://www.simore.com/en/dual-sim-card-adapter-3g-4g-wx-twin-micro-sim.html?___store=simore_en
 Switching SIMs would require a reboot, but it might work otherwise.
 Thank you
 No guarantees. Check phone compatibility first.
 You'd be doing an experience at best.
 Experiment
 My question was just out of interest. A friend would by a phone for UT. He needed DualSim, but E5 isn't available
 @YougoChats, 😂 that's technology for you …
 @Wildnislehrer, Fairphone is dual
 @Stereofont, Fairphone is high priced for him.
 Used price is not so bad
 I'm talk with him 😅
 I got mine used at a very good price because they didn't really know what it is 😂
 Lucky you 😂
 Has anyone ever had luck installing Audacity to any UT devic? Last time I tried it on my M10, it crashed on startup (the app I mean).
 *device
 @Seumas, No but sounds cool and update me if this ever works. We do audiocast with it...
 I wonder if more PPAs granted with 16.04 will give better compatibility for it.