 tg://join?invite=Baj4lhJ4XRotoeGk1QxuRQ
 @Wildnislehrer, He can try Meizu Pro 5 and install UT
 wondering if Google Treble will be a good thing for projects like UBports
 I noticed no Korean keyboard? Any idea how to make Korean language work on UT? Works on Ubuntu desktop...
 Hey, is it possible to use python-tk in UT? (With clickable)
[06:31] <tgBot> deepu11 was added by: deepu11
 @BlueKenny, if tkinder uses qt5 bindings then ues
 or if it uses gtk2 bindings then also yes, but via xmir
 and xmir scenario os not clickable
 afaik there is no way to make click app use xmir
 on ut
 if it was possible i would love to ise it
 @KrisJacewicz, Thank you :) … i'm going to learn QML 🙈
 @KrisJacewicz, Can't you just add the xmir parts to a launch script which your desktop file calls? something like … ```Xmir -rootless :2 … export DISPLAY=:2 … exec @``` … And then in your desktop file add … ```X-Ubuntu-Touch=true … X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=true … Exec=/launchscript myapp``` … I would have thought this should work
 @DanChapman, brilliant workaround, love it!
 will test
 how about :2 part, is it like a constant or every time xmir runs it uses out one display from the pool?
 @DanChapman, ah I just remembered what was th problem from the past (I actually tired that, except the parts in the script, which i really thank you for):
 the problem was that click upon installation generates .desktop fle at ~/.local/share/applications/ and your X-Ubuntu-* flags WON'T be preserved in that generated launcher
 that was the problem I faced
 i don't even think it is a bug, rather a lack of feature in click logic
 not sure
 @deepu11, Hello deepu and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @DanChapman thank you for the Dekko 2update 😎
 What's new?
 And thanks to the core debs for clock and camera paps for improving!
 *developers *apps 😁
 @KrisJacewicz ah i see there is some troubles there. Some possible good new though. There was a patch in xenial which enables ubuntu-app-launch to start apps with xmir https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/tickets?search=2531 so once we have some xenial based devices, things should get a bit easier for you. Although looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfAlgJtqSLM i see there are some gtk apps there running on mir. So maybe you won't even need xmir o
 @DanChapman, wow, great news in deed!!!
 I mean, that would be HUGE news for everything that I do if gtk could run directly on mir, man I would start making apps like crazy! hehe
 and would start talking to Lazarus community to get involved as well, I'm sure they'd have good number of people interested in it
 @KrisJacewicz, Lazarus can bind QT5 as well, but I was not successful with it, because apparently Lazarus bindings require min qt5.6, but even when that requirement gets fulfilled, I still don't know if qt on UT is fully binary compatible with equivalent on xorg, if yes, than that would be good news for Lazarus as well.  … Some of my apps do graphic rendering, and in such case xmir is too slow for me. That will also be a bottleneck for others
[08:19] <tgBot> use whatever language/ide to make their gtk apps. That is why I am interested in trying out xwayland, because AFAIK it really is NOT like xmir, except purpose-wise, but not under the hood. xwayland has no hw acceleration for rendering either, but at least it supports glamor (https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Glamor/)
 however, if gtk were to be supported natively in mir, then whoah, the possibilities are endless!
 hmm the gtk mir integration isnt that much code
 but it is in a bad state..
 I spent some time working on it.. but that was at a time when we also reworked the buffer ownership in mir.
 This is all I know in the subject: … https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-mir.html
 but apparently UT does not have this port included (I'm talking 15.04), not on my end
 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/gtk-mir/files/head:/debian/patches/ and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/mir-copy-paste/files/head:/debian/patches/ is probably the most recent status
 there should be proper git repo somewher
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/PQgkOM0u/file_2458.jpg so my UT does not have this
 @anpok, can you install this with apt-get?
 I am not sure about dependencies..
 @anpok, I wonder if installing mir's gtk backend would or would not conflick with also existing on ut backend for x, do you know if that'd be an issue?
 could both backends co-exist?
 yes they would
 in the end you control that via the environment
 I'm willing and ready to test drive it, could you suggest initial steps?
 I mean, to install that backend on my ut?
 figure out which gtk version is in the ppa/15.04 .. and whether there are matching gdk-mir patches for that gtk version
 @anpok, I only need to install the patches, no need to install some initial libraries fisrt?
 these patches will add mir support onto the original gtk libraries?
 also is gtk+ a synonym for gtk3?
 or only gtk2?
 or both?
 found this: … "GTK/GTK+ and GTK2 are different versions of the same API. GTK is an old, deprecated version, GTK2 is the previous one, GTK+ 3/GTK3 is the current version. … GTK+ is the correct name of the old API, but most people just call it GTK. … The C++ bindings for GTK+ are part of the project GTKmm." … source: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5830731/what-is-the-relation-between-gtk-gtk-and-gtk2
 no the patches are the differences between the specific upstream mir integration of gdk and the current state of development at that time
 so those patches will not work with the 15.04 version of gtk
 @anpok, seems like it's gtk+3.0 3.14.12-0ubuntu2 … source: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/gtk+3.0
 ahh now I remember why we did not enable the mir backend..
 cairo has (or hopefully had) some annoying limitation wrt to byte ordering
 and the android gles drivers could not match the color channel order
 so that remains unresolved?
 @anpok, you mean little endian vs big endian?
 or color format?
 GL_RGBA GL_ABGR GL_BGRA .. or GL_ARGB .. insanity..
 I see
 but wondering, since cairo works on arm linux under x, so that problem is only regarding translating these to gles calls?
 *gles calls on android?
 yes
 but would a static mapping table solve that?
 or was figuring the mapping the problem?
 some inconsistencies?
 if I had some guidance I would even be willing to try to figure such mapping experimentally
 if that would bring gtk to mir, I would love to help
 perhaps even I could figure out a routine to run during initialization, that runs tests to figure out the mapping automatically
 test based, call gles apis with different mappings until the results are valid for used input, and then remember that mapping for use aftr the initialization
 @wayneoutthere, At the pull down menu it allows you to select any language but in keyboard settings only a few are implemented. In principle it shouldn't be complicated to add more but I have no idea how to do that. Adding all would bloat the system
 with just a little guidance I could take the work off someone else's shoulders, but I need help in setting up the environment for testing, and some list of APIs to translate between gtk and gles
 @KrisJacewicz, Hey Kris, I am trying to run KeePass2 off my phone with X forwarding. I am getting  … X11 forwarding request failed on channel 0 … Unhandled Exception: … followed by a bunch of errors. … What am I missing?
 @delijati, Ok. Thanks. I'll try.
 @TomasOqvist, idk, but I can try to troubleshoot you, how did you install KeyPass2, with apt-get or sth else?
 I will get it on my ut as well and see if I can run it
 @KrisJacewicz, apt-get and then edited the desktop file
 the package name?
 keepass2
 $ apt-get install keypass … or sth else?
 ok, bare with me
 apt-get install keypass2
 sorry keepass2
 (Photo, 724x463) https://irc.ubports.com/msnddaqA/file_2460.jpg mono runtime part
 (Video, 143s)https://irc.ubports.com/T0rH34f6/file_2461.mp4 I think it's related to mono
 Install the native version
 I believe it was keepassx2
 @vanyasem, +1
 screw Mono
 yes it works!
 ☺️
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/3fXCVlNg/file_2463.jpg $ sudo apt-get install keepassx
 Ok, so install keepassx instead and edit the desktop file?
 you can also try keepassxc (I think it has a better gui)
 nah.. quite similar, sorry
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/An1b0AMu/file_2465.jpg i installed natve version
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/oy0sjBHB/file_2467.jpg this is without wm
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/QwB69p9r/file_2469.jpg and this is with wm
 if you still hv a problem let me know I'll get you thru ;)
 Yes, keepassx works, but I need to export my kdbx database to one compatible with keepassx. Also, starting it locally only shows half of the app in the top right corner of the phone.
[09:51] <PureTryOut[m]> @KrisJacewicz: may I ask, why do you have 2 Telegram launchers on your phone?
 @TomasOqvist, because you do not run it with a wm, if you do then you get it fullscreen, see my 2 case scenarios above with screenshots
 @PureTryOut[m], one is on th ephone, another is just a launcher that starts Telegram from my Ubuntu desktop over WiFi onto my phone
 keepass2 is better as it uses later and more secure file format I think. Seems I have to export to KeePass 1.x format, which isn't supported in Ubuntu version of KeePass2.
 the one that has (x86_64) added in the name
 @KrisJacewicz, How do I run it with wm?
 @TomasOqvist, one step at a time, perhaps keepassx2 is available just not in the official repos, try asking goole ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, He he, I turn out to be just as impatient as you are...
 @TomasOqvist, I call bash wrapper from my .desktop launcher, so I have wrapper at /usr/bin/start-keepassx, and the actual launcher at /usr/share/applications/keepass2.desktop, let me show you...
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/7HHjx7zU/file_2471.jpg this is my wrapper script
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/ctippMgB/file_2473.jpg and this is my launcher
 BUT, you need to have wm installed first, I am using matchbox
[09:56] <PureTryOut[m]> @KrisJacewicz ooh that is pretty cool actually. I assume that's with all your `(x86_64)` launchers then?
 $ sudo apt-get install matchbox … *approx 30* MB
[09:56] <PureTryOut[m]> also, I recommend KeepassXC over KeepassX
 @PureTryOut[m], correct, I wrote about it and demoed: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/desktop-apps-on-ubuntu-phone.html
[09:57] <PureTryOut[m]> cool!
 @TomasOqvist, also in this article you actually will find all these things explained, even though it talks about Lazarus IDE, but the xmir setup is explained in great detail: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/lazarus-on-arm-ubuntu.html
 @KrisJacewicz, MISS Mir Scopes Suck... lol😂
 @KrisJacewicz, Ok, I think I already installed matchbox. I'll try that.
 @PureTryOut[m], Can it read .kdbx files?
 @SergioSRM, off course scopes don't suck, just that I'm aversed to them, it's putely subjective ;)
 Keepassxc is the one i reommend too
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/frUtu6rG/file_2475.jpg that's what I use instead, it actually uses my ~/Desktop for content, and will soon add folder support
 uploading a video showing it in action
 unfortunately because of xmir slow renderring it is less spectacular than it could be, I had to give up on fancy animation effects
 so I want a normal desktop experience, not an app scope
 and I want to see my wallpaper, otherwise it doesn't matter that I can have one set !
 so right now I'm uploading a video showcasing how my UT looks like from login to actually seeing and using this replacement for scopes
 so the way it works is that I now only show icons from my actual Desktop folder (which btw is missing in UT by default), and not all the apps. You can decide yourself what to have on your desktop and what not to have
 also, I will add a dash-like experience
 so you can start apps that are not on your desktop
 like on Ubuntu Desktop
 currently dash doesn't happen on UT, just brings scopes to the front
[10:13] <PureTryOut[m]> @TomasOqvist yeah it can, like KeepassX. KeepassXC is basically KeepassX, but actually supported by more than 1 developer
 @KrisJacewicz, please compress your videos
 I don't feel like downloading 90 mb files :)
 @vanyasem, when I send them from mobile it doesn't show me that option
 only on desktop, sorry
 use ffmpeg
 I'll download onto my desktop and resend compressed
 Ok, this doesn't look good: … Error http://repo.ubports.com vivid/main armhf Packages …   Could not get status - stat (2: No such file or directory)
 @KrisJacewicz, I cannot remember if that was a problem of cairo then trying to render in software.. or having artefacts because a differen byte order is expected..
 @vanyasem, well that is not viable fo rme, because Isent that vid from my android phone telegram
 While sudo apt update on the phone
 @KrisJacewicz, oh, then it should have that option. it was there for abes
 (Photo, 622x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/0EyrnmfQ/file_2477.jpg
 @anpok, well, I'm interested in helping, but I'm not capable of starting this effort without some initial help
 @vanyasem, I'll look into it
 hm get the code .. enable the mir backend.
 hmm
 first find the right code :)
 then see what happens
 @TomasOqvist, It worked after 'sudo mount -o remount,rw /'
 @TomasOqvist, off course :P
 But it fails to update the repo 'ppa:phoerious/keepassxc', although it installs fine.
 So I can't install keepassxc.
 @TomasOqvist, by "installs fine" you mean it enlists that repo, off course it doesn, you can enlist anything, even verses from your favorite song
 probably that repo does not provide packages for arm, or not for vivid
 but if it has sources you can buildd it yourself
 @KrisJacewicz, Ok, so I will have to stick with keepassx then I guess...
 @TomasOqvist, unless you build it from sources
 here: https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc
 @KrisJacewicz, Yeah, I might give it a go.
 @TomasOqvist, I have to build on the phone or can I do it from my Ubuntu 16.04 desktop?
 $ sudo apt-get install git … $ git clone https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc.git keepassxc-src … $ cd keepassxc-src … $ mkdir build … $ cd build … $ cmake -DWITH_XC_AUTOTYPE=ON -DWITH_XC_HTTP=ON -DWITH_XC_YUBIKEY=ON -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release .. … $ make -j4 … $ DESTDIR=~/.local install
 and since it uses qt5, it should run natively in mir (in theory
 @TomasOqvist, you can do either, or even on raspberry pi. … - On the desktop you need to build it in architectural chroot … - on the phone you may be missing qt5 dev packages needed for building … - on raspi you can do all the compiling easy, then move compiled app to your ut
 if you build it on desktop but not with architectural chroot you will end up building desktop version, unusable on the phone
 ie cmake is missing on ut
 $ sudo apt-get install cmake … some extra ~20MB
 and there might be more, so architectural chroot or raspi could be your best choice, unless you want to challenge yourself :D
 (Photo, 724x463) https://irc.ubports.com/lusSo9qT/file_2479.jpg yup, not straightforward to build it on the phone, unless you hv newer cmake than in the repos (or you're on 16.04)
 CMake Error: CMake was unable to find a build program corresponding to "Unix Makefiles".  CMAKE_MAKE_PROGRAM is not set.  You probably need to select a different build tool.
 you probably also missing basic tools
 $ sudo apt-get install build-essential
 I have compilers on my ut already so I have these basic things, but you probably don't
 cmake from sources: https://cmake.org/install/
 I may try this on raspi when time permits
 Uhm, this is getting complicated... Got past cmake command, but not make -j4
 Or, I mean I got the same as you above
 @TomasOqvist, well, I got even less forward than you so cant help, cuz I don't know what problems are behind
 but I guess missing dev packages, including for qt5
 ah ok, so not yet actually in make
 What about space on the phone? I now have: … Filesystem                      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on … udev                            1,3G  4,0K  1,3G   1% /dev … tmpfs                           287M  1,1M  286M   1% /run … /dev/mmcblk0p28                  55G  4,1G   49G   8% /userdata … /dev/loop0                      2,0G  1,9G     0 100% / … /dev/loop1                      118M  113M  4,1M  97% /android/system … none
[10:33] <tgBot>   4,0K     0  4,0K   0% /android … tmpfs                           1,4G  4,0K  1,4G   1% /etc/fstab … tmpfs                           1,4G  1,1M  1,4G   1% /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    504M  9,6M  495M   2% /android/cache … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/modem     64M   57M  7,9M  88% /android/firmware … /dev/disk/by-partlabel/persist  4,9M  4,2M  760K  85% /android/persist … none                            4,0K     0  4,0
[10:33] <tgBot> tmpfs                           1,4G   84K  1,4G   1% /tmp … none                            5,0M     0  5,0M   0% /run/lock … cgmfs                           100K     0  100K   0% /run/cgmanager/fs … none                            1,4G  112K  1,4G   1% /run/shm … none                            100M     0  100M   0% /run/user … tmpfs                           1,4G     0  1,4G   0% /media … tmpfs                           1,4G  4,0K  1,4G   1% /v
[10:33] <tgBot>                  287M     0  287M   0% /run/user/0 … tmpfs                           287M   40K  287M   1% /run/user/32011
 btw, if you insist to make this on dsktop (ie you don't have raspi), then remember, don't use qemu-system-arm, it is limited in that it can supply maximum of 256MB RAM into the chroot. Use architectural chroot instead. … 1. the qemu-system-arm (limited memory) tutorials here: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2016/12/easy-containers-on-ubuntu-touch.html … 2. architectural chroot covered here:
[10:35] <tgBot> http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/11/telegram-on-arm-raspi-and-ubuntu-touch-1.html
 *Ad 1. I showed debootstrap on ut, but you do it on esktop exactly same way, and end up having arm chroot on your intel host
 @TomasOqvist, yes you need to take care of that
 there are multiple ways
 I move some stuff into the userspace and symlink it back to the original place
 at least stuff I apt-get install, but you can also use this to move some of the staff that came with the image by default
 I moved my entire /usr/share content into my userspace
 So that would be … sudo mv /usr/share /userdata/usr/share … ln -s /usr/share /userdata/usr/share  … ?
 I did like so: … $ mkdir ~/.hdd … $ sudo cp -a /usr/share ~/.hdd/ … $ sudo rm -r /usr/share … $ sudo ln -s /home/phablet/.hdd/share /usr/share … BUT be AWARE: it gets risky, you can skip the rm -r /usr/bin part, you will not regain any space, but you will not add anything into that either, but then you cannot ln -s to /usr/share unless: … a) you rename it to sth else, or … b) you mount new location over the old instead on using sy
[10:47] <tgBot> because I don't hv to deal with /etc/fstab or other scripts
 cp -a - t prevail all the original priviledges etc
 regular mv/cp will screw you up with these ;)
 it's a tricky terrain to walk on, but can be rewarded with plenty of space to apt-get install stuff :D
 Hm, will it mess up coming OTA updates?
 @TomasOqvist, no, the OTA will just overwrite it, and your /usr/share in the userspace will be of no use any longer, you can delete it completely
 then you can redo the steps all over again
 You mean it needs to be repeated after each OTA update?
 @TomasOqvist, precisely, it is a non-persistent technique
 Ok, and the other options to regain space that you were thinking of? (Sorry for bothering you about this)
 if you want persistent technique, I'd suggest another approach, just move into your userspace apps only, not the stuff that your OTA image has shipped with
 and in your user autostart or user cronjob or anything in the userspace, add script that checks if the symlinking is in effect or not, and i not, re-does it
 That is /usr/share/applications and those that I installed myself?
 @TomasOqvist, not any fixed path, just whatever is added when you apt-get install, case by case I'm affraid, no generic way to rule them all
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks, where do the click installs reside?
 what I do, I repackage my apps completely for userspace, let's say Geany, i downloaded deb: … $ apt-get download geany … and I extracted it in my home, then I created single .sh script that symlinks the content onto my system image, so I can put this Geany folder ANY place I so desire (obviously I do it under my home directory somewhere), and then enetr that location and: … $ sudo install.sh … (I also have uninstall.sh script just for t
[10:57] <tgBot> symlinks hings on the fly. So after OTA I just need to re-enter that folder and re-run install.sh … HOWEVER, I can install user's cron job that runs the script, and after OTA update it will still be in effect (the cronjob). Or some other user's autostart, bash rc or whatever
 @KrisJacewicz, And those can also be moved to /userdata?
 @TomasOqvist, hahah, these already ARE in the userspace
 that's why they persist between OTA updates
 @KrisJacewicz, Bear with me, I am a novice 😄
 cd into that location and you'll notice it is already writable
 @TomasOqvist, no sweat
 plus, you're already hacking ut, so I'm all happy to bear with you :D
 But my problem with lack of space remains, and I don't have that many apt-get installs in /usr/share
 @TomasOqvist, off course, because ut image by default has very little space left, it's not what UT makers anticipate that users will apt-get things
 that's why as long as you remount / to writable, you're already hacking ut, using it differently than intended
 but that's where ut actually becomes of value :D
 But wait, my mc install has persisted through OTA updates??
 otherwise it can only do less of what other mobile OSes can do
 @TomasOqvist, very hard to believe
 @KrisJacewicz, I have only installed once, and update devel every day and it is still there.
 @TomasOqvist, sudo apt-get upgrade is not same as OTA update
 OTA update rewrites/overrides your entire system partition
 otherwise I myself am missing something here
 (Photo, 717x239) https://irc.ubports.com/liMccnHi/file_2481.jpg No, I do it from System Settings app
 so always oublecheck what I or others say
 From what I understand of it an OTA will only bork apt installs if it touches/replaces files that the deb package either installed or depended on. I have some modifications to the dash that never get overwritten as those qml files never change
 could it be that new OTA includes it? that would be a shocker since UT team is reluctant to add packages to default image and mc I think would not be regarded by them as crucial, esp that even terminal app is not included by default
 yay, I can print documents straight from my Ubuntu phone 😎
 @samitormanen, How?
 @DanChapman, well than OTA is much more intelligent than I thought, and I am sincerely impressed
 @TomasOqvist, from command line
 @samitormanen, :D
 Hey … It is possible to install desktop version of Google Chrome on UT (like keepass) … If one had chrome one could install ARC Welder Extension and run Android Apps (including WhatsApp...) on UT
 @KrisJacewicz, Well, if space is as limited as it seems on my phone...
 @samitormanen, Sample command pls?
 @unknown, if by "desktop version" you mean intel version then not. … If you mean non-mir version, then yes.
 @samitormanen, This sound Great Sami
 ACTUALLY - i don't know about Chrome, but CHromium most certainly yes, I have
 it wont work without installing and configuring things. but now I can print a document just by typing "lp document.txt"
 and it is network printer
 @samitormanen, share conf flow, and I'll make UI for it
 @samitormanen, Naturally...
 @KrisJacewicz, Since chromium is very similar to chrome it might work - somebody should test it 🤔
 @unknown, what I mean is that IDK whether or not Chrome is released for ARM linux
 but Chromium is
 @KrisJacewicz, i write some howto if someone wants to try it 😆
 @samitormanen, 👍
 Chrome similarity is because Chrome is based off of Chromium, not even sure if it is available as source code, or only binary version, Chrome = Chromium+Google's proprietary stuff on top of it
 Quick question, does someone know how to easily ssh into UT from my laptop via USB?
 @samitormanen, thenshare it with me in pm so it doesn't get lost in the history by the time I hv free hours to sit down to it
 @peternerlich, use screen maybe, haven't tried but in theory should work
 your usb supports serial connection
 @KrisJacewicz, ok.
 lots of embedded systems work that way
 @KrisJacewicz, Raspberry Pi = UT?
 i do it with single board computers, you need to use data capable usb cable naturally
 @unknown, nope, raspberry pi is hardware, UT is software, but also raspi supports multiple OS distributions, including Ubuntu Core and Ubuntu with Mate Desktop, but not Ubuntu Touch
 YT could be ported to raspi, but currently UT apparently is investing in things like hallium which means it will depend on android kernel, that is adirection away from raspi, unless there is modern android for it, which perhaps there is but I don't know
 @KrisJacewicz, Yes but if a software runs on RasPi (raspbian) would it also run on UT
 and it would be interesting, becaus ethen you'd hv UT on a regular monitor, wonder how it would look like, should be exactly same as Mir desktop on intel based laptop/pc
 @unknown, depends, if it is a software compiled for ARM linux then yes, given that UT provides all dependencies
 raspi is hardware, it can run ARM native machine code, but executable files are also compiled against OS, not only against CPU
 Okay I see
 so ARM Linux is the common ground on which both UT as well ass Linux based distros available for raspi grow
 raspbian is not same as raspi, one is OS another is HW
 raspbian is debian based
 generally compatible with UT, so it's all about dependencies then
 but more or less yes, same
 if you use Ubuntu on raspi then you get even more compatibility
 your executables will be valid, but the dependencies (libraries that are linked dynamically at runtime) might not be available on UT, you can always distribute them with your app in one bundle, then yes, you achieve full compatibility
 but even then there is GUI related problem, if the app is GUI, whgat widgetset it uses is another limitation
 currently ut supports qt5 and gkt+/gtk2 via xmir
 but gtk3 doesn't start on the phone via xmir (does start over ssh with x forwarding though)
 and qt4 i hv no idea
 So does this tutorial on how to install Chrome on Raspbian also work on UT? … https://www.linux.com/blog/run-google-chrome-raspberry-pi
 so things like that
 @unknown, yes but not sufficient, UT will require additional steps
 for example UT has read-only filesystem, which raspi does not have so you won't see that addressed on that tutorial
 Ever heard of ExaGear?
 also, at the end, if you also wish to use chrome on the phone's screen, you will need to modify the .desktop launcher, but ssh scenario does not depend on it
 @unknown, yes, I even mentionned them on my blog and contacted about supporting UT, let me find their reply
 deleted, but basically they responded asking why would they support a dead platform
 I replied, but no hearing from them since
 that was very recently
 @unknown, In this tutorial they use ExaGear to run x86 Chrome version on a RasPi … If this worked or could be implemented on UT we could also run Android Apps
 @unknown, well yes, but exagear does not support UT atm, and also...
 ExaGear itself introduces performance penalty, it is advertised to reach up to 80% of native performance, but that's just a maximum used in marketing, although they have super confident claim that it's much faster than qemu. … Now, xmir, on top of that, is yet another level of performance penalty. I'm talking about speed of rendering out the GUI
 Okay and ARC Welder will slow down again
 I may try exagear on plasma mobile, as xwayland it does not have limitations that xmir has (from what I was told/explained) so that might be viable environment for exagear, we'll see
 if your far goal is to run android app s on UT, then you'd want as little layer in between with performance penalty as possible, study into the case ob BB supporting android apps, their approach was sth you could look into
 but as inneficient as it may prove with xmir, you could in theory do android with qemu: http://www.upubuntu.com/2012/03/how-to-install-android-x86-40-using.html
 It was just an idea when I read about ARC Welder...
 the only culprit: this tutorial uses x86 android, you'd want arm android
 your kernel versions would need to be matching, then you shoudl be able to install full android OS into qemu-kvm based vm
 on UT
 I even have a terribly great idea (but I can't make it happen) that perhaps a qt5 ative vnc client could perform better than xmir for such use scenarios
 A full Android OS (including launcher and everything else) might not be the best solution … ARC Welder doesn't do this
 instead of xmir rendering apps into itself with its limitations, a native qt5 vlc client running directly in Mir could do it
 I have to go now - see you later
 take care
 Thank you for your effort
 — is anbox still active?
 @SwizzlaKalongie, TBH We dont know :)
 @SwizzlaKalongie, it is online still, not sure if that means active or not, but more important question is this: does anbox use ARM android, or intel
 @KrisJacewicz, arm.. they say " ... it is specifically built in a device independent way. Anbox will ship with a single Android image per architecture (amd64, armhf, arm64) and no device specifc modifications are required"
 @SwizzlaKalongie, well then, a promising idea!
 however need to find out how will it render out its gui
 xmir? qt5?
 hmm... technical questions... oh well... i'm good at waiting haha
 we'll either get there one day or just won't need android anything by that point
 @KrisJacewicz have you tried to compile anbox for ut or at some arm device ?
 @delijati, no but im interested in it so maybe on thw weekend
 damn, .pdf and .txt files works but .doc files wont print..
 @samitormanen, off course
 pdf is a printing format and txt is raw text
 pdf is like ps, made for print
 so that's why
 doc is interpreted format
 doc viewer interprets it and renders out as it "thinks" it should
 pdf is different, no room for interpretation
 http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/file-types.php
 ah, ok. that explains it. thanks!
 however some printers have built-in support for doc(x)
 i can print .doc with "catdoc file.doc |lp" but then it is plain text.
 but it's good thing to get something to printed out. 😄 better than nothing.
 @samitormanen, because catdoc only extracts plain text from the internal doc file structure, no formatting
 so printing catdoc is exacrly identical as printing txt
 yep.
 @KrisJacewicz, woah...........  it's hard not to get drawn in by keepassx... !
 @wayneoutthere, Yes, it is a nifty thought to always have your up to date passwords on the phone! But migrating from the database on KeePass2 on my desktop turned out to be more difficult than I thought. Have yet to find an export format that I can oper in KeePassX without getting 'signature error'.
 well, most of what Kris is doing is not possible for guys like me, however, I think Kris is all about the bigger picture and he is motivating people to think and act and get excited and so... neat.
 @wayneoutthere, Very well Wayne I agree with you but for all the non developers!!! Pls be aware this is just hacking to find out what can UT do, what can we expect,,,, There is no intention you and me as non developers with UT daily devices to try it, as you will break very possibly upcoming new OS OTA updates and maybe something else. Be inspired, watch the difference among UT and the market mainstream OSes. And be patient, all this will come incl
[13:29] <tgBot> in the UT OS convergence concept. 😉
 Right.  I hate creating new groups though.  we don't want more than we actually need ha
 @milkor73, good point. i in deed am focused on users who will want to do what i do. And i admit that i am not focused on regular smartphone users who will just want to ise UT as a smartphone imstead of android/ios. Because i dont believe that ut can match android/ios in that aspect. because of my skepticism i focus on exploring ut value that appeals to other group of users. but at the end of the day, i think, it is all good. because there is a
[13:33] <tgBot> solid team supporting regular users already so I am effectively addressing something in a complementary fashion.
 you are yes
 and the excitment around it is motivating
 tahnk you, i appreciate it
 but I'm speaking to the manager in you (we have one).  how can we motivate, mobilize, and organize the troops?
 obviously we need to have a big picture discussion ... i have a weird part of my brain that loves systems and organizing. i try to run from it but it won't run from me.  here I see something complimentary and I also see a lot of people who could possibly help.. but the problem is 'what are we helping' and 'where are we going'?
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks for your feedback and happy that you are in deeper contact with core team already.
 oh
 that's good
 anyway, i feel like... we need some big in-your-face forum meeting
 kind of like Q&A on steroids
 *hides*
 @TomasOqvist, Do you know Keepweb? It's in the openstore.
 no. here is what I know —--»»     __ ««------------
 (sounds exciting to search)(we're going to start reviewing apps soon... i think we have one already reviewed. ha
 @milkor73, well, only what u see happens here in this chat
 @wayneoutthere, I don't know how ubports is handling building the image tarballs now, but previously the images would only have translations included which had i think >60% (or maybe it was even higher) completion rate
 @LarreaMikel, Yes, I have it installed. But it is a bit of a hassle, because I have to copy my password file from dropbox all the time, or I am out of sync with my most recent passwords. It would be easier if possible to MTP into the OPO, but there's some bug preventing that.
 @KrisJacewicz, Folder support in the app draw would be awesome.
 But it's have to be designed right which is something I think would be difficult to do.
 Personally if I install desktop on my apps, for convergence reasons, I don't want to see them when I'm on phone.
 I liked the separation which the libertine scope added, but it isn't great. … Also the idea if going to the openstore, downloading like Firefox thinking it's the mobile version, then having the desktop version, would be pretty upsetting. … And then having 2 Firefox's next to each other one being desktop, other being phone, would also be a bad time.
 @PhoenixLandPirate, i get this, to each its own, no doubt about that
 also valuable feedback fpr me to allow some customization per user's prefference
 @TomasOqvist, but you will have that same problem with keepassxc, don't you?
 also the desktop on ut via my scopes replaceme t would not matter in converged desktop
 hou would still see regular converged desktop
 or no desktip at all in ssh scenario
 I never use the desktop anyways, but it should be available for convergence mode for those who do use the desktop
 @PhoenixLandPirate, i agree
 the way i think i will adress that is so that u can choose if you want a particular location to be shown on your phone (could be Desktop or anything else) or just apps
 i think that will be flexible enough
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/q71BYyQY/file_2485.jpg
 How to fix it
 ctrl+c
 2nd from the left
 or 'n'
 @LarreaMikel, Not if I run keepass through x-forwarding, then I will always work with the same database.
 ahh, ok. understood.
 @TomasOqvist, use rsync if u hv a server OR script rsync to work on your LAN
 @TomasOqvist, precisely that is one of killer aspects of x forwarding!
 that's one of biggies i was trying to bring to everyone's attention!
 your apps, data, configs, all travels with you. in your pocket.
 +1
 @Vijaypraj, Don't use apt on the phone, unless it's in a chroot.
 So what should i have to do
 @dohbee, dont limit ppl. he is free to use apt it is his phone, his choice.
 Yes, one is free to break their own things.
 I want to install libretine
 @dohbee, yes. also u dont k ow if they will or will not break things. tell ppl that they should understand what they are doing but if they do, let them. … vijay might not be very familiar with apt, i deduce, so i would generally not suggest him to use it, but it should be because of his lack of understanding of apt not as an umbrekable rule.
 so vijay learn more about apt before using it
 I am familiar with apt
 your sources dont fownload maybe network problem maybe your / is not writable
 I am new to in ut but not new in Linux
 I tried to unlock
 Dpkg directory
 @Vijaypraj, well thwn i think usong apt is fine for u
 But still not working
 and u can disregard the comment about chroot
 I have no more experience in ut
 isnyour image writable?
 I am using stable version
 And i also try with sudo
 But not working
 ok can ypu mkdir /blablah ?
 with sudo?
 if u cant means u are readonly
 Yes
 I make mkdir
 ok so can u verify u have no internet problem?
 u using telegram on the phone?
 Yes I will check
 @Vijaypraj, libertine is installed by default
 @dohbee, is it? why on earth would it be default is beyond me...
 Not a problem with internet
 @Vijaypraj, no dependency problems?
 No
 @KrisJacewicz, i do know if they will break things. the root partition is read-only for a reason. changing it to rw and using apt to update/install things is a generally bad idea, and a quick way to fill the partition to 100%
 so only problem with fetching repos yes?
 Yes
 @KrisJacewicz, it was in april. i don't think ubports changed anything. it would be installed by default so people can create containers and use legacy apps
 what wasn't installed by default was the legacy apps scope, which was in the app store as a click instead
 @dohbee, should bebup to user not to you, but explaining rationale is good. explain but dont forbid.  … also since the system is designed to work in read only it doesnt matter if root is 100% full anyways ;)
 don't tell me what to do
 @Vijaypraj, maybe change to main server? are you using a local server?
 well fill your root partition to 100% and let me know how well your phone boots then
 in software sources?
 vivid is dead
 it is no more
 it is an ex-distro
 So how to change
 In ut
 It looks like the repository is still up, though. We're probably the only ones using it
 @Vijaypraj, maybe just change sources?
 I will try
 But that's why we're trying to get to 16.04 as quickly as possible rather than beating on 15.04
 i cant help u now but someone here can tell ypu what they hv in thwir /etc/apt/sources*
 including the commented ones
 Ok
 u can tey to ise that and retry
 @Vijaypraj, also for the limited space alternative to chrooting is moving some data (for example from under usr share) into userspace and symlinking it back to otiginal location
 u can keep ypu disk usage low that way
 i run my gui apps like that, cuz i dont want the overhead pf libertine
 why do you have deb-src enabled? and why is it trying to download the uncompressed versions of the files?
 @dohbee, that is a good remark right there
 but really you don't need to use apt to use libertine
 or a regular chroot if what you want is CLI tools
 @dohbee, that is another great point, despite i argued with u earlier i totally agree that simple clean chroot is agreat tool, and no overhead related to libertine
 libertine is literally just a plain chroot with a few default packages and X installed
 however i suspect you would agree that sometimes chroot is just not an option, ie if you want to install wireshark
 because sometimes u want direct access to real resources and not be in a chroot jail
 and libertine handles managing bind mounts for you
 @dohbee, i thought lxc, but also libertine is full vivid, whereas u can run chroot on a MUCH more compact chroot image
 libertine has nothing to do with vivid
 But lxc should run on the device already because of the Android container, so you could Setup a second lxc with debian Sid  maybe ...
 Has anybody tried that already?
 it is lxc, but lxc is also just a specially managed chroot
 @dohbee, into chroot in libertine downloads vivid afaik
 if it is not, then it was last time i used it
 you can create 16.04 or 17.10 or whatever version you want, in a libertine container
 i am veru sure of what i am saying because i used debootstrap container manually after that to have xenial chroot fpr a project
 and libertine had vivid to match host image
 @dohbee, which arw all large sistros that is my meaning all the time
 chroot can go much lighter than amy of ubuntus
 tjat is the overhead i meant
 it grabs basic pre-installed image
 and vijay i saw your screen amd u arw on read only fs, your error messages are saying this to you explicitely
 but there's nothing stopping you from apt-get removing extra stuff inside the container if you want
 u nedd to read the errors
[15:58] <tgBot> Rocco 3 was added by: Rocco 3
 generally most people want to have translations and working systems too
 and brush up on some info, but this group will help u fond answers
 telling people to do things the exceptionally hard way because of your personal ideals of what "overhead" is, is not helpful
 Guys
 alright gius time to sleep take care and later
 Let's get Ubuntu Touch 16.04 first and worry about what we can do on top of it after that
 @dohbee, sorry but that not what i am doing. i dont encourage ppl using apt on ut. i dont tell them they cant either. especially if they want to and ask how. sth for u to think about. anyways, rwally uv to sleep now.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 i didn't say anyone can't. i said they shouldn't
 @UniversalSuperBox, Irony : On 15.04 Nexus 5 was really getting in good shape.
 The goal of 16.04 is to change the base operating system only. Its behavior should stay the same.
 We can change the behavior after we're on a supported base.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 woo! i just got mir 0.28 to run on nexus 5 :D
 fantastic!
 here is the android part of https://github.com/ubports/mir-android-platform
 moved it to github so it's easier to contribute and read
 I should be on vacations by next week
 Going to double down on the apps I've promised for the platform :)
 @mariogrip, That's very interesting! Tell us more.
 @samzn, YAY :D
 The Nexus 5 didn't explode, so I guess that's step 1
 @alan_griffiths, I just have the demos working no qtmir/unity8 or anything like that
 https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/63598651/is-there-any-reason-to-still-use-android-phones found this on /g/
 @alan_griffiths, will try some different things, but the demos seems to `just` work
 @samzn, Wow...
 @UniversalSuperBox, it's not made by samsung :P
 @mariogrip, Sure, but you've got the first out-of-tree "graphics platform" working. That's a big step.
 @UniversalSuperBox, That's a lot of testosterone in one thread
 @alan_griffiths, Have to thank @anpok for that, i just made it compile with 0.28 :)
 .28 is the build with wayland support, correct?
 @samzn, Jep, basic wayland support
 Fantastic work Marius
 @UniversalSuperBox, As it should be. The patten language is "Stable Intermediate Forms - A Foundation Pattern for Derisking the Process of Change" https://accu.org/index.php/journals/261
 Good work Marius! 🤘
 Congratulations! we have a new language group.  Be sure to find out what that is by subscribing to the UBports News Channel here:  https://t.me/ubports_news
 @UniversalSuperBox, It's 4chan. What can you expect but a bunch of dudes wishing they could all be the alpha?
 I suppose
 @dohbee, Worse, it's /g/. That place is more cancerous than most boards.
 except for some cucks
 There's plenty of interesting discussions once in a while
[16:21] <tgBot> gonfebo was added by: gonfebo
 Hello @gonfebo and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 From time to time. But everything invoving OS's and phones turns to shit
 Hmm.  I might have to boldly believe you are incorrect.
 there is always time for an exception.
 @alan_griffiths, That was a really interesting read! Thanks for sharing the link 😊
 Yeah, but in between apple fanboys, wannabes that think gentoo and arch are the end-point of OS development(Ubuntu is for kids, and has the amazon botnet, etc), people that screech about bloat and hate DE's, people that think parroting Stallman's ego-jerk about GNU+Linux makes them smart, windows users copy-pasting old arguments, and folks that think every advance leap in computing(phones, mice, visual interfaces) since the 80's is heresy, because they
[16:35] <tgBot> shit some stuck-up ancient neckbeards from that age still think, it's not exactly Silicon Valley
 I think you just summed up the Internet.
 Let's be different than that here.
 oh no, this community is awesome. but other places don't exactly see eye-to-eye about our vision
 quick question: in the webapp creator app, what do the suburls do? I find that a bit confusing
 @peternerlich, iirc they need a regular expression describing all urls that are supposed to be opened in the app, everything else will be opened in the browser
 if in doubt just use `*.url.com/*` i guess
 @neothethird, ah ok, but the url space I already entered above is included?
 ok, maybe i'm wrong
 been a while since i messed with the webapp creator
 (it says `Add any URL under the main URL that should be opened in the app` — `Access to SubURL 1` ...)
 ok, maybe they want to have seperate patterns for the subdomain, domain and path
 @cibersheep care to elaborate? ^
 @Radu, which vision exactly? there are so many to choose from.
 btw, is `htop` available as a click package?
 @peternerlich, No but if you push me nicely I could add it to the rootfs ;)
 I would like to build a Ubuntu Touch click package of  https://github.com/kaidanim/kaidan. Currently Kaidan depends on Qt 5.9 and Kirigami 2. Do you think it will work on the new xenial release if we put Kirigami inside the click package?
 Currently I'm still waiting for lxd being packaged for debian so I can use clickable properly
 i guess if 5.9 is there, it will sort of work, but not be very friendly
 @Flohack, I'm not sure that is the right way to do it, since there is literally no normal user that would ever use it. But it would have been nice could it be added with more ease for those who do use it
 it says only 5.7 is required in the readme
 yeah, CMakeLists.txt also only depends on 5.7.0
 @peternerlich, I am missing htop every time ^^
 true
 If only overlay-style filesystems were included and stable in Android kerneld
 @balcy, ... I have found a way to build it and get it running, will write about this in the forum some time later
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch-meta/commit/ff9ec414ae5e62a6c71db3c90ac1ce72755a82ff @KrisJacewicz @peternerlich
[18:36] <tgBot> GiovanniStaiano was added by: GiovanniStaiano
 hm repowerd complains about a missing library and dbus service files.. Loading module: 'libubuntu_application_api_touch_mirclient.so.3.0.0' … Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.canonical.powerd was not provided by any .service files … Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.canonical.powerd was not provided by any .service files … library "libubuntu_application_api.so" not found
 Hello @GiovanniStaiano and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Hello - Ciao :)
 If you have any "beginner" questions or need guidance, feel free to ask over in the welcome room (invite at request). … Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay updated about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 @GiovanniStaiano, If you have any "beginner" questions or need guidance, feel free to ask over in the welcome room (invite at request). … Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay updated about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 👍
 Hello, Does the GPS work well (Especially with the Nexus 5)? I have to turn on the smartphone several times until you start the GPS.
 For me even in Northern Germany it works fine.
 @anpok, The problem is the missing library then. The complaint about the service files is from dbus as it failed to start repowerd, which provides that bus name.
 @GiovanniStaiano, It worked OK for me when I last used it, and after letting the signal get linked up while outside. If I tried straight from indoors, it wouldn't find the satellites
 @nfsprodriver @nfsprodriver Does it quickly find the signal?
 ok
 @dohbee Does it quickly find the signal?
 @Flohack, poppler-data plz 😁
 @GiovanniStaiano, It was satellite only, no AGPS, so it wasn't exactly quick, but it wasn't too slow either. It did take a few seconds.
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch-meta/commit/a897bfd36b628df02533a22af8e146ee8c6e5442 @KrisJacewicz
 probably about the same as when using satellite only in Android
 OK
 @neothethird, M? Reading...
 @peternerlich, This is because with some websites / services if the main URL is: `whoeva,com` sometimes `www.whoeva,com` doesn't work. Or `app.whoeva,com` … So, you have the fields in case you need them. … Also, say you are interested in open some other URL in the app: `whoeva,com` needs acces to `imthere,fr`, then you might use the additional URL for that purpose
 @cibersheep, aah ok
 @peternerlich, Does that make sense?
 Question: is Halogen to a point where I can test Ubuntu Touch on it?
 (not afraid of building it, I'm just not fluent enough with programming to be able to attempt major changes to the tree)
 halogen?
 @dohbee, I guess is Hallium, right?
 @c_smith, You have a dedicated Telegram group if you want to check
 i was guessing that, but maybe one meant a specific device port
 @dohbee, Oh, right
 hi, no more notifications from Jenkins builds ?
 (sorry if i'm out off topic)
 @DanChapman I have one question about dekko 2
 I've set up a imap account, but it doesn't show me the mails in onbox
 Inbox*
 I can send them, but I cannot read them. Is it a known issue?
 Thanks
[20:53] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> Yessah
[20:53] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> Vicinoo
 @cibersheep, Already there, rarely do I get anything like a reply there, guess I'll try again there
 @c_smith, Oh. Anyway, think that Halium might be in early stage
 @Dio Cristo, are you italian? wanna join @ubportsitaliano?
 @c_smith, Or might want to take a look at the forum? … https://forums.ubports.com/topic/431/porting-halium-to-nexus-7-deb
 Sorry if I'm not being too helpful :(
[21:06] <tgBot> <Dio Cristo> @Michele, Ammazzati
 vijay prajapati: … sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --device=hammerhead \ --channel=15.04/stable --bootstrap
 Change device name
 It is easy to install
 I need redshift on UT so much
 @malditobastardo, me too~~~
 https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/348
 Amazing move! Kris will be happy after this 😹
 @peternerlich, https://community.ubuntu.com/t/mirs-next-steps-we-need-your-input/2140/34
 Read the last answer 😺
 well, last 2 answers from the devs
 @malditobastardo, I'm also an advocate for making more apps SuruDark theme compatible, but there is way more important stuff atm
 @malditobastardo, 😀
 hey as many of you know in the states, today is GIVING TUESDAY!
 how about we give ubports a special holiday cheer with a $16.04 donation :D
 just a thought :D
 si puedes, if you can.
 I'll have to find something to give to!
 @UniversalSuperBox, halium lol
 I don't think they'll take my money
 plasma mobile ;P
 Yeah, they'd take my money
 Give time to Halium and you help all three!
 yaaaay
 there is prism....lol but hopefully those who are not on patreon can give a one time donation, that would be cool too...and those projects we mentioned - its all love in these parts....most of the time at least lol