 @Flohack, thank you, so much!
 @Flohack, you are awesome
 @KrisJacewicz, am i awesome as well? https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch-meta/commit/a897bfd36b628df02533a22af8e146ee8c6e5442
 even though it took forever
 @profetik777, +1
 @profetik777, +1
 @neothethird where can I find the fix for this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubports-android/+bug/1542964 ? I got the same error on my port.
 uhh
 Sorry, no idea
 @Ern_st, @mariogrip do you remember what this was about?
 @Ern_st, kernel missmatch, are you using a caf kernel?
 I think...
 How can i be sure ?
 @Ern_st, what device?
 I'm porting a moto g 2013, based on the work of Walid.
 you an try my super hack https://github.com/ubports/android_kernel_oneplus_msm8974/commit/317db5f3fcf0582991aaf593d0475023e4ca089d
 https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/installing-16-04.html#choose-a-rootfs … indicates device tree, should it be the same for kernel @mariogrip ?
 I belive this is 5.1
 right @Ern_st
 Yes 5.1
 But my device is caf according to the boarconfig so i took the sudoku
 Yeah, we dont have a pure caf 5.1 rootfs yet, but that `hack` works
 `hack`
 Thanks i'll keep you update
 did you choose the caf rootfs?
 Yes
 if so, that wont work, since that is built for 7.1
 give the non caf a try
 oh.
 Ok, what i remember the problem was also there. But with the non caf the hack might works ?
 So i try non caf and then non caf + hack ?
 yes
 bacon uses that hack + non caf
 Ok
 Thanks
 @mariogrip @UniversalSuperBox the non caf xenial +  … + https://github.com/ubports/device-files/tree/ubp-5.1/common/system/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf … + https://github.com/ubports/device-files/tree/ubp-5.1/common/system/usr/include/hybris … seems to clear all my graphic issues … thanks
 dear all, I want to share with you my 1st impression of using plasma desktop vs using UT. … UT is MUCH more end user ready than plasma mobile, but at the same time plasma is much more hackable. … I think that working on both projects will be plenty of fun, and I'm sure I will be able to contrubute both, although from my skill sets, I think I will be able to contribute to plasma more, because there is more stuff missing in it that I actually
[04:21] <tgBot> want to tell you that I gained a whole lot more appreciation for both UT and plasma now!
 @KrisJacewicz, 🤘Thanks for your awesome contributions Kris.
 Fwd from msnzmmk: hi guys. sorry for asking. i live in iran and i cant join the ubport super grupe. … in the music app, when i save some music in memory, it's not add to music app automatically, and i should add manually. is it for you same? … (in nexus 5)
 ...from the fairphone/ubuntu group. Can someone help him?
 No
 In my Nexus 5
 Aong add automatically
 You should have to update app
 Either apt-get dist-upgrade
 Use command
 @msnzmmk
 Thnx
 @Vijaypraj, You cannot do it on an Ubuntu touch system.
 I done
 Would you like to watch
 ?
 @Konrad_Fichtner, Can he use Matrix or IRC to join us ? Anyway, music file are scanned automatically by media-scanner something. Does it files contain the correct extension ?
 You can do it, you just have to remount / as rw
 but it can break things when updates come
 Yes i know
 Correct @Xorpad not for common users
 When ota is updated than it will re lock
 Any one can do
 Yes
 you can
 But he/she has to properly Knowledge about it
 @Vijaypraj, upone EVERY reboot it returns to ro
 yeppers
 and off course, upon your wish. I consider it a good practice to remount it to ro once you finished needing it rw, not let it just stay rw for no reason
 It's better if you use a chroot in your home folder if you want to apt-get command-line tools
 or just a binary folder to PATH in your home dir
 @Xorpad, case by case, there are instances when chroot is not a viable option
 @Xorpad, +1
 edit .bashrc to add that path and you can pump in stuff you compile on pc with the right prefix
 PATH + LD_LIBRARY_PATH
 I have a ~/bin folder with stuff I cross-compiled
 @Xorpad, +1
 htop and ccrypt
 I just installed them to see how
 and I have a shell script that replaces the PATH addition in .bashrc after update
 just copies it from another file in the home folder
 with a . prefix so it's hidden
 anyone got distcc type compiling for android build system?
 I want to spread out the load
 you know, I hv to elaborate, it seems to me (it's not recent observation, I have had this observatons for years) all boild down to a peculiar programming practices on Linux. It is not enforced by th OS, it is just a practice that spread like a virus and now is the source of these type of problems. What am I talking about? That linux software makers keep shitting files of their software all ofer the filesystem, instead of just containing them ne
[05:06] <tgBot> one portable folder, that can also be completely installed into userspace with laucnehrs, and PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH etc. … I make all of my apps in that way. It is not commanded by god that you put some stuf under usr share, some under usr bin, some in usr bin some in opt and so on. It is just a practice. And it has been at the very source of things liek containers and snpaps/clicks/flatpacks. … Isn't that interesting? Just people insisting on a practi
[05:06] <tgBot> will, all these soulutions emerged to address a virtual problem, a problem of habits...
 I dislike most of what goes on in computer science these days
 I long for my 386
 I remeber once I accidentally installed firefox (nod deb, I think it was tarball or sth) without sudo and guess what... … It installed! completely into the userspace. Can be done! Just do it as a programmer, you get to chose. Also, deb packaging is handicapped, it cannot install shit into your home folder.  … Click can, but you have to explicitely pass the user name to it, so it knows which userspace to intall to. deb is handicapped as a pa
[05:10] <tgBot> in regards to that, it is not able to install stuff but into the main filesystem
 I install everything I compile from source with checkinstall on ubuntu
 "sudo checkinstall -D make install"
 @Xorpad, I like you ;)
 @Xorpad, My first pc... remember it like yesterday.  A Dell.  Stayed up all night hacking away on it and playing Twin Towers mud.
 My first PC too, I was like 3 and it was 1988
 had it until I was like 7 when we upgraded to a pentium with MMX
 I learned to code on that thing
 but seriosuly, if you are developer, it's completely up to you how you make your software install iteself. All that legacy habits, your call, but don't just follow old habbits on autodrive mode, pass concepts through your own internal filter and make your on educated decissions - encouraging, not forcing ;)
 We need conventions though
 @Xorpad, Hehehe... me too... was blown away but its what... 16 MB of ram?
 as much as we also need to move forward wed need software design conventions
 you know?
 @Xorpad, my first PC was Amiga CDTV, without hd, OS was loaded from 1.44 floppies, I still program for AmigaOS, great OS btw, but these days I run in in a vm
 @Xorpad, +1 !! ❤️ Preach!!
 I remember having OS load from 5'1/4 floppy
 then we got a 30MB hard drive
 thing was state of the art
 that's going a bit off topic guys
 sorry @vanyasem you right
 consider moving to @ubports_ot
 aye aye!
 @vanyasem, not the part about programming conventions
 agreed
 Well, like, the whole reason we have computers as complex as we do and huge monolithic software platforms is because we stick to standards that allow stuff to be reused and built up to crazy extents
 Like, if it wasn't for IBM neglecting to get exclusivity on the i386 pc hardware they used, we would not be talking right now
 There literally wouldn't be an internet
 so yes, the talk about who had what as 1st PC and when, was a bit of who's dick is bigger kind of game, but as for the programming conventions, ESPECIALLY on UT with rw filesystem and limited space, we could POPULARIZE (if you're with me on this one, IDK if you are tho) the new convention of making portable software that is easy to install into suerspace. Because: … 1. it increases security by removing requirement for sudo/root priviledges fo
[05:21] <tgBot> … 2. it saves the ro filesystem on UT … 3. it saves the overhead of workarounds around the legacy distribution model (cntainers, clicks, flatpacks, snaps, etc) … I am not against click, it's good and I don't challenge it, but we can distribute alternatively packaged legacy software.  … In fact I began a project dubbed "OpenSoftwareHub" that does just that, and it proposes new packaging/distribution convention, as well as helps in repackaging things. F
[05:21] <tgBot> Geany, Inkscape, and few other apps from .deb format into new generic style: wget/scp/cp a tar, extract, enter, run install.sh, and BAM, Geany in your userspace (still requires sudo for symlinks, but this could be avoided if Geany sourceode received patches, or if env variables could be figured out)
 @Xorpad, evolution is one thing I like to remember about. Space was expensive back in the days, Disk and memory. Now space is cheap. Reusing is fine, you don't need to spread software all over though.  … The entire concept of ~/home in Linux is designed around accomodating userspace installations, but software makers are not taking advantage of it. DE knows to look for launchers in ~/.local/share/applications/ and things like that.
[05:23] <tgBot> Programmers/publishers just need to take advantage of it. And it cannot be taken advantage of with .deb
 click btw is great, but wish it didn't use sudo either
 and yes I do recognize that you may wish to install into the main filesystem, absolutely. Just that now everything install there, not just what needs to.
 I have ubuntu phone running ubports.
 however I can not see ubports supergroups from telegram app on phone
 I can acces that from telegram desktop app only
 any idea why its happenning?
 @KrisJacewicz, Well laid out and interesting read. (trying to understand everything) I would just like to ask about item 1, in that I have two kids and I like the fact that I have control on what software gets installed... granted a simple user auth could be created, I think that is the only thing that jumps out at me. (not that it is the most important thing regarding your post)
 @nikhilubuntu, You need to get the new beta Telegram app
 https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/download/v2.5.0/com.ubuntu.telegram_2.5.0.0_armhf.click
 ok. thanks. I will do that today itself.
 @nikhilubuntu, 👍
 do i need to remove the current telegram app or the new version will automatically replace it?
 It will replace it.. (however, don't try to upgrade it from the OpenStrore)
 as it will downgrade it ;P
 ok
 @neothethird, @KrisJacewicz did you see that Kris? I guess all the additional packages you needed for x-forwarding are included thank to @neothethird, isn't it?
 @Crash_Burn, Can we suggest to the OpenStore team to visually separate upgrading to and downgrading from a newer version?
 and use "downgrade"
 @peternerlich, This might be a special situation, but perhaps a good idea as I almost clicked the upgrade button ;P
 @Crash_Burn, I don't really think this is a special situation, since the OpenStore itself allows you to install any click package from your storage, so I would categorize this as a rather usual system state that should be handled elegantly, especially if it's as easy as comparing version numbers
 @peternerlich, https://github.com/UbuntuOpenStore/openstore-meta/issues Going to sleep now.. look into it more tomorrow.  Thanks and good night.
 @Crash_Burn, very valid scenario. i cant think of any specific solution that is "one fits all". I think that your scenario (subjectively from my perspective)is a special case, thus requires some initial change of default settings, before it is in effect. Like a security/privacy policy that you add atop the default setting
 @peternerlich, i understod him differrntly. that he wants to limit kids' ability to i stall apps locally without sudo
[07:26] <tgBot> Holger Böcker was added by: Holger Böcker
 @Konrad_Fichtner, @Konrad_fichtner is this because he doesn't have the Telegram beta installed?
 @Holger Böcker, Hello Holger and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Du scheinst mir auch, deutscher Natur zu sein (no offense) — Vielleicht hast du Interesse an unserer neuen deutschen Language Group? http://t.me/UBports_Deutsch
 I just got a 2nd hand Nexus 5 32GB for around $70 😍
 now, is it possible to triple boot Plasma Mobile, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu? LOL
 (Photo, 800x627) https://irc.ubports.com/Csy2r7D6/file_2487.jpg today I used UBports GUI installer and it's absolutely beautiful!
 @Javacookies, +1 ❤️
 I want tomake similar one for Plasma Desktop and I could totally also make it work with UT, so one for both plasma and UT, but would some of you consider that some sort of breaking of unspoken code?
[07:53] <tgBot> Syah Wawa was added by: Syah Wawa
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/0z0sXYCp/file_2489.jpg
 also on the phone that installation splash, super beautiful, I'm absolutely sold n it!
 @Syah Wawa, Hello Syah Wawa and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 you know guys, this is where I can get involved, in making GUI apps supporting UT on the LinuxDesktop/Windows/OSX end
 @KrisJacewicz  can't we refactor ut now to make all the apps in user space?
 @VIJAYHIREMATH1, not sure what you are asking. ut default click already installs app into userspace.
 @KrisJacewicz, You were telling there are some apps which installs some files in root we can identify them and correct it.
 At least all the core apps(not sure whether they have already in user space?
 @VIJAYHIREMATH1, well, what I was talking about are legacy software packages distributed as .deb, and "correcting" is not a word to use, because correction is used for fixing something broken, and that's not the case
 @VIJAYHIREMATH1, it is possible that you have a slight misunderstanding of what I said earlier
 @KrisJacewicz, Modify if that suits
 @VIJAYHIREMATH1, yes, but really there was a context to it, and I am not sure if you are also within that context, since you mentionned core apps now
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/oZuD0FgK/file_2491.jpg
 Terminal app present by default on clean install - VERY satisfying!
 the progress on this including addressing some feedback is IMPRESSIVE
 at this point also a very belated but HUGE shoutout to whoever did such a great job on shaping the terminal app. I didn't believe it would be that easy to use without a proper keyboard ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
 I'm still waiting for the new redesigned terminal 😃 … I installed it before on my laptop via snap and it looks great!
 @peternerlich, +1
 some state of the art mobile terminall app, RESPECT ❤️
 @Javacookies, looking forward to that
 seriously, that Terminal app right there is THE Ubuntu spirit emanating form this phone ❤️
 @Florian, I have a queston, it's not a formal request, because I do not insist that it is needed, but perhaps would be helpful, and I'm biased as I've a stake in it. … Since UT default configuration makes it impossible to use ssh-copy-id from your machine into UT device, so I made a tool specifically addressing this, called ssh-pull-id, which is same, but opposit direction: your ut device pulls ssh identity from your pc, intsead of your machi
[08:21] <tgBot> it to ut device. That circumvents  the config which prevents the pc from connecting to ut device for key exchange. … The tool is very simple, and I hosted it open source here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ssh-pull-id/ … specifically made it for pairing ut with other machines. If you'd be interested in including it, I can relicense it to whatever suits you, and maintain.
 @KrisJacewicz, Doesn't phablet-tools already solve this with phablet-shell? It handles the copying of keys etc for you
 @DanChapman, well, here's the thing: i didn't know about phablet-shell, so I need to learn about it now
 you need to install it on pc side?
 Yes `apt install phablet-tools`
 because if so, then ssh-pull-id could be a lighter option, only requires your machine to hv ssh server service
 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/phablet-tools/trunk/view/head:/phablet-shell
 @DanChapman, thank you!
 you can also take screen shots make image writable and lots of other stuff with phablet-tools
 you see, there are lots of pieces of inforamtion around, and I miss lots of this pieces, still
 @DanChapman, +1
 @DanChapman, I will to 2 things, now that I know: … 1. get myself familiar with it … 2. find a way to make others familiar as well, get phablet-tools some exposure
 @KrisJacewicz, Plz open an issue for that on GH, otherwise I loose it again ;)
 I think, since I was not aware of it, there might be more people who also aren't, but what you say it is used for, I think, should be highlighted, everyone who flashes UT on a phone, should really know about it, it should even be mentionned in the GUIO installer
 Yeah we are behind with documenting, I can imagine a "User´s Manual" one day which will have a section for how to hack & optimize the device, and what tools are there.
 @Flohack, understood. As you perhaps see now, I've new info from Dan, very relevant, but still ssh-pull-id can be considered, for it does not depend on phablet-tools being installed on device, alnd also, … @DanChapman , I don't know how phablet-tools works, but I deduce, that it uses adb for exchanging keys. SImply because I am only aware of adb service AND ssh service being readily available on UT. And that is even more overhead on the pc si
[08:54] <tgBot> (although I totally praise phablet-tools), just pointing out how ssh-pull-id still has its own advantage. … Also, by default ssh is not enabled, you need to enable it via adb: android-gadget-service enable ssh … (i just flashed nexus5 with UT and did this, but didnt check if it was indeed disabled, it was in the past). … If you don't have adb stack on the pc end, you can do that on-device from Terminal app. And then you can use ssh-pull-id to finish the
[08:54] <tgBot> adb required on pc end at all. … @DanChapman does my logic make sense, what do you think?
 Its in fact not obvious in many places how to do things. Starts with that you can pin stuff to the dash, and how.
 @Flohack, I want to contribute to that
 Or that you can navigate between indicators with your finger
 @Flohack the ways I can readily contribute: … 1. Growing documentation … 2. Creating gtk apps, so either for pc end (Linux/Win/OSX) or for xmir scenario on the phone … 3. Creating headless (terminal) apps/tools/services … *I don't hv experience in coding low level Linux stuff: kernel, kernel modules/drivers, etc.
 @KrisJacewicz, Can you Go? 😆
 @Flohack, no, I am mostly coding in Object Pascal, but I also know C/C++, and website end things like js,css,html. … However, my C/C++ coding is without GUI experience, I have always been doing GUI apps with Object Pascal only
 I am looking for a Go dev at the moment
 so, I can assist in Go written code maintenance, esp if I don't need to design GUI in it
 Yeah its only backend/server code
 @Flohack, no able to help as an independent maintainer, but I can assist, yes
 Oki. I am a totally Go noob so I can´t even assist ;)
 Whats up with Go? I have seen some other projects written in Go for Ubuntu Touch.
 @Flohack, I saw Go code, nbever wrote a line in it, but basically I understand Go code as if I was looking at C++
 The notification backend we must take over from Canonical is written in Go
 sure, there are differences, but roughly C++/Java/Go all the same to me, in terms of fixing bugs etc
 I need to get it up running with some modifications for testing
 I setup it once, played around and didn't really like the language.
 @Flohack, ok, I'm not Go programmer, but I can help to the extent of my abilities, IF there is noone else readily available for the task
 Ok thx. Seems Go is not so popular, despite I am reading articles why its much mbetter than C++ lol
 I'm free for all of December outside of Dekko commitments to work on the notifications server. @Flohack @KrisJacewicz would you like to catchup at the weekend to come up with requirements and planning
 @DanChapman, Cool that would be awesome, we are running a bit out of time ;)
 @Flohack, it's religious topic, really, but the rule of the thumb is, new languages emmerge daily. And there is no one language that is better than others for every job/scenario. Go addresses some problems better than something else, but some other problems are better addressed in other languages.
 @DanChapman, I am very willing to get my hands dirty
 also I am able and willing to help in architectural design, that's what I do for living
 Ok invited you to the topic group
 I would love to help too, but my understanding is quite limited on low level stuff.
 Its not so low-levelactually
 @Matteo, yep
 @Flohack, Where is the source code for it? Want to check if I can understand anything there
 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-push-hackers/ubuntu-push/trunk/files/head:/server/
 I will import the project to Github shall we
 on nexus5 where there is no home button (hw) the only way to get back to the scopes is by swiping fro the right edge?
 Or longswipe from the left
 Or shortswipe from the left and tap the Ubuntu logo
 @Stereofont, I don't know, I just read his question in the Fairphone/ubuntu group and tried to help by asking the ubports Supergroup which in probably restricted in Iran
[10:20] <tgBot> msnzmmk was added by: Konrad_Fichtner
 @KrisJacewicz, finaly i get it to work via phablet-tools, `adb push ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub /home/phablet`  then `adb shell` and `cat id_rsa.pub >> ~.ssh/authorized_keys`. ssh to my phablet is fine now
 @lduboeuf, there is a better way, you should not need to copy the key over, use echoing instead
 yes for sure
 $ export KEY=$(cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub) … $ adb shell "echo '$KEY' » /home/phablet/.ssh/authorized_keys"
 I just tested, works with these parenthesis I used above
 @lduboeuf, @TomasOqvist had just used ssh-pull-id and said it also worked for him for importing keys. It does not require adb btw
 @KrisJacewicz, Yes, very nice tool indeed!
 yes but need to have an ssh server
 @lduboeuf, yes , but no adb, depending on your case you might fnd it more suitable, or less
 yes :)
 I alway hv ssh server on my machines because I want to access them remotely too, so for ppl like me this is easier
 but if you don't want to, it may actually not be a good tool for you
 any advice for installing a gtk file manager via apt without breaking everything ?
 i feel so afraid of doing apt install on phone
 Is it possible to make WhatsApp Web responsive? to dont have a desktop view in UT :(
 what is WhatsApp?
 is it thr new myspace?
 @Xorpad, Lol
 i know that sounded like a joke but the real joke is i actually dont know
 Wow, srsly ?
 Something like telegram
 *closed source telegram owned by facebook*
 yeah im out of touch. ive heard of whatsapp but had no idea what it is
 @mariogrip, years behind telegram in resources
 @Xorpad, Will O is back!👍🏻
 And will download lot of sh*t to your device, doesn't have cloud based file saving like telegram
 to much hate to WhatsApp over here😮
 @SergioSRM, I'm not whatsapp hater
 But that is the truth
 guys, for who wishes to try, I open early access to OpenSoftwareHub, which I will gradually release more and more non-click apps on, for UT, that install into userspace. … Currently I have first put snake game in it (wrote especially for UT's xmir), but will be adding more, including Geany, Lazarus IDE, Inkscape, etc. … The website is not launched yet, but early access is here: … http://opensoftwarehub.org/download/
 @SergioSRM, yeah. first i took a week break from coding/irc then my laptops all got hit by a power surge or something. lost a gaming laptop anf 2 netbooks. and i have sweet stationy rigs but i cant sit at a desk because spine issues so i was gone for almost 2 weeks
 i bought a used netboom today for $25 off crsightslist
 and i ordered a rockbook chromebook
 *rockcore
 @Xorpad, Rockchip?
 It's a mid-to-high end arm SoC maker
 it's a 2.2ghz quad core arm64 system with 4gb ram and a semi-decent GPU which I forget the specs of
 and it has 32gb SSD, 720p 11.6 inch screen
 12-16 hours battery life
 sorry this is very OT
 well, i guess it's not... it's an arm SoC
 lol
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/p48nrjHS/file_2493.jpg the OSH temporary icon (some dubbed it Flying Spaghetti Monster already)
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/U0LLPjQl/file_2495.jpg main page (undergoing UX redesign)
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/M0q8CD6q/file_2497.jpg app db
 Flying spaghette monster?
[10:55] <tgBot> * Xorpad puts on his pasta strainer
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/aWV5eODX/file_2499.jpg app installed
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/3KIspYjO/file_2501.jpg app running
 Now your game needs content
 @Xorpad, You are a new kind of superhero, Offtopicman!  … Offtopicman, our favourite superhero who brings random conversations!
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/4gPUNijx/file_2503.jpg
 haha
 @KrisJacewicz, it's not better to use touch controls? For example, touching the edges to move to that direction instead of using arrows? 😚
 I do tend to rant about random things at length
 I'm Captian OT... Say anything about anything... I'll drive the topic somewhere else
 @SergioSRM, have not thought of that yet, this is POC
 @KrisJacewicz, And what is the difference between OpenStore and OpenSoftwareHub?
 I was asked a question by @Dohxis  that I think I own you all an answer to, which is (his question): … "Could you explain why it exist versus just having open store?" … And the answer: … 1. It is not UT-specific, not even Linux-specific … 2. It doesn't use debs, and thus installs apps into userspace, which especially on UT is cricial … 3. on UT it automates deployment of non-click, Xmir apps
 @SergioSRM, see 1 answer above
 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 Great!
 Thank you for your work!
 everyone hold your hands and pray
 the bullhead may be about to come to life
 I'm hoping and praying that it works
 and nope.. bootlooping
 that was anti-climactic
 the version you have access to is already being improved for a release candidate, and then will open up full documentation of how anyone can host any software with it, end even host own repo of apps. Will also release non-linux versions (windows/OSX) as soon as some app management is ready that knows which apps not to list on which platforms. My own apps will be available for every supported target, but everyone will be able to publish for any 
[11:02] <tgBot> they wish.
 What kind of apps you making @KrisJacewicz ?
 I suck at GUIs so I'm not going to try making apps
 I'll just stick to messing with the guts of the beast
 @Xorpad, I do any type of apps but for UT I will first focus on GUI wrappers for what currently only has command line support, and on tools for making ecosystem of devices, ie your ut phone and your desktop conveniently coexisting in one system, aware of each other and with cool tricks possible
 oo
 let me know when you get to the filesystem stuff
 :D
 @Xorpad, what do you mean?
 Well, filesystems are handled in the kernel, so I could make a kernel module to blend the filesystems together from 2 seperate ones
 @KrisJacewicz, 4. people who make native qt5 apps can also distribute it via OSH to have them absolutely unconfined
 @Xorpad, ok, well I do not do this kind of software though. I had in the past made file-embedded custom filesystems, but not OS-wide suppirted, only for app internal use.
 Yeah I would make that part, and then you could make the interface and app with it after I make it
 that's what i'm good for, implementing things the coders will use
 @Xorpad, when you hv specific project in mind, pm me, and I'll lok into it and tell you if I'm suitable and if I can assign time to it
 Well, I have to do what the developers want
 because as that crazy guy from MS says... DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS... DEVELOPERS!
 @KrisJacewicz, you can do this with click
 @DanChapman, you mean unconfined apparmor profile in the json manifest right?
 yeah
 via OSH you can deploy it without manifest at all, and without click, just binary files
 I am not saying everyone needs it, but if someone does, well, OSH can do that
 all the apps are belong to us
 Ok that's fair enough but you need to make people aware they won't be able to use some of the ubuntu api's like online-accounts (unless you use the libaccounts-glib/libaccounts-qt c++ libraries) or register for the notification service. There are probably other qt/qml apis that also rely on click appId's
 click takes away alot of pain with using some of these apis by adding a few lines to a json file.
 @KrisJacewicz, It installs the apps into userspace, right?
 @DanChapman, valid point, and yes it's possible for OSH to use .so library calls, not done that yet though.
 there's pro's and con's to both sides. We should just make people aware of what they 😊
 @DanChapman, I totally agree and I support click, except for that it currently does not work with Xmir, because of what we earlier discussed
 👍
 @DanChapman, that's my thinking as well
 and FYI, I would myself start using click if the Xmir issue got resolved
 not for all projects, but I would start using it
 I do recognize where it simplifies things
 @TomasOqvist, yes, however with legacy apps, when you repackage them, sme are persisting on filesystem hardcoded paths, in which case symlinks would be made. It would make the app happy, yet save space on your system image.
 @KrisJacewicz, 👍
 Geany for example insists on having things in /usr/share/geany and it's a hardcoded path. I don't want to invest time in changing it in the source code and recompiling, so after i install it locally, I just symlink it to where it wants to have it.
 @KrisJacewicz , awesome work. osh & snake installed on my BQ :)
 @lduboeuf, I am super interested to know how it performs on BQ, never tested n that device
 because Xmir is slower in rendering than comparing to native mir execution, and device specs probably have important influence on this as well
 seems to be smooth on BQ
 @KrisJacewicz, Just for the sake of correctness and for your interest, is possible to package XMir app in a .click
 phone or tablet?
 @TronFortyTwo, package - yes, deploy - no, not currently
 after u imstall the click the .desktop launcher will have xmir flags removed
 that is the sole reason
 @KrisJacewicz, This is a 'known bug' .... any volunteers for documentation, please PM me on the side! ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, like crypto-currencies ;)
 @Flohack, hey! where is my invitation!!???  ;)  I'm collecting UBports groups on my telegram list and I'm hoping to hit 100 by 2018
 @wayneoutthere, really 😆
 @Xorpad, you're now the best friend of 1015 people instantly...
 @Flohack, no.
 @wayneoutthere, im getting close to 250 now... no wonder i never answer anyone
 @Xorpad, surprisingly, I know this youtube reference...
 @mariogrip, the race is on!  It might be smart to .... start listing these, but more important I want to poll the community to find out who does what and where everyone can best contribute...
 hey @mariogrip we got the canonical push server to life :) - unfortunately it is not the same version as the clients are expecting ;) - but we started to hack it. At least they already talk with each other
 A first step, but an important one: … https://community.ubuntu.com/t/mir-0-28-android-out-of-tree-platform-module/2371
 @Flohack, YAY :D
 @alan_griffiths, :D I now got WaylandAllocator up there https://github.com/ubports/mir-android-platform/commit/7806af725993cb8666bd23531924cda58685a998
 @Konrad_Fichtner, Hello msnzmmk and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Flohack, Great job !
 @Flohack, @Flohack has super powers ;)
 @Flohack, And now we got first message through ;) So push service is no mystery any more ^^
 since I changed to your client config it does not work anymore on the device 😆
 @Flohack can you point me to the code ?
 Sure
 @delijati, https://code.launchpad.net/~ci-train-bot/ubuntu-push/ubuntu-push-ubuntu-yakkety-2021
 @Flohack, Shall we get this branch imported to github?
 I think so, yes
 👍
 let me send myself a message 😆
 @Flohack, test
 @Flohack, this seems like news...?
 @wayneoutthere, We will have a few things to do but I try to make a marketingish example screenie ^^
 sure... napkin... pen... easy engrish
 because when i hear 'push server' i think of waitress abuse
 ahh i se someone was bored and tried "golang"  :D
 @delijati, All the indicators are also Go
 lol
 @delijati, Canonical
 Its used widely on the core OS ^^
 hmm why not better than C ;)
 @Flohack, No they are not.
 @dohbee, Ok some of them ^^
 none of the indicators are go
 you sure?
 they are Vala, C, or C++
 hmm strange
 what was I thinking then
 disregard ^^
 accounts-polld is go
 and some of the lower level phone integration stuff is go (nuntium, ciborium, etc)
 there's not a whole lot of go on the phone
 and except for indicator-network, and a few others that only worked under unity7, they were all shared between unity7 and unity8
 which is going to make for some interesting problems if another group wants to keep unity7 alive, while some other groups want unity8
 honestly, i would suggest just getting rid of ubuntu-push on ubports at this point. it's not worth the trouble of maintaining it, for practically nothing to be using it
 @dohbee, yeah but we cannot just switch off telegram notifications. thats not going to happen
 @dohbee, i kind of could live with that
 We can talk about improvements but after we secured the status quo. Canonical will turn off their service soon and we dont like this
 @Flohack, if you don't log in to u1, they've been "switched off" already for a long time. and are you working with telegram to keep things updated to your server. and is it really worth all the trouble, for just telegram, even if they do do support your alternate server?
 @Flohack, question though, that push server worked on now is not a real gsm push right?
 someone help, i'm lost in git
 @dohbee, There is no trouble, just set up a machine and install it. And on the client, update the config to point to a new IP
 @KrisJacewicz, what do you mean by "gsm push" exactly?
 one that happens when base stations do paging an one that has no bandwidth cost?
 how do i push forcefully a branch that's not up to date with the repo?
 @Flohack, it's not that simple
 I need to push my code to the fork i made of bullhead kernel
 @Xorpad, Well, you can do `--force` but you should instead pull hte changes
 @KrisJacewicz, that's not how push notifications work on any phone OS
 @UniversalSuperBox there's like a ton of commits
 @UniversalSuperBox but they all break things and are not good
 so many comparisons of signed and unsigned ints
 @dohbee, telwcom operators do push lile that and some open the service for outer networks
 i tried using —force, it rejects it still
 @dohbee, He means data SMS as used by Google and iOS partially
 depending on area you are apple or google might even hv subscription to it
 @KrisJacewicz, Unfortunately ours does not
 And no, we cant have that
 It costs a lot of money
 @KrisJacewicz, that's fine, but that's not how Android/iOS work
 afaik they do
 should I just make a new git repository that's not a fork?
 to some extent
 @dohbee, How do you think firebase works than
 but yeah this got cleared
 there's a client service running on the phone that maintains an open TCP connection
 I need to get my code somewhere i can browse from my android box until I can get my new pc
 @Xorpad, What's the actual error you're getting?
 ! [remote rejected] ubp-7.1 -> ubp-7.1 (shallow update not allowed)
 I don't know git
 @dohbee, Yep. But believe me, they are also using data SMS ^^
 lulz
 ie, the exact same way it works in Chrome
 I know how to clone stuff and that's about it
 @Xorpad, `git fetch --unshallow`
 Then you should be able to push
 okay thanks @UniversalSuperBox
 @Flohack, Sorry, none of the documentation on either GCM or iOS notifications, mentions anything about "data SMS"
 also perhaps we could do pull/poll notifications instead of push
 @dohbee, Its true, because you do not need to know that part
 They simply dont document this
 because it's not true
 otherwise push notifications wouldn't work without a SIM
 They use it additionally
 Anyway, this is irrelevant
 I got DRM runtime tests going on bullhead earlier in the night
 We were talking about the push server
 @KrisJacewicz, The devices pull already
 but I still can't render it to the screen, haven't got there yet
 Telegram will not agree to us pulling from their server
 what kind of server is needed? I'm lost
 I have a VPS with 5tb monthly data
 @KrisJacewicz, preferably not, because pull is very expensive (eats battery/data)
 and I don't even think they enforce monthly data limits
 they never used to but said they would in the future
 but it would be trivial cost in data, unless it started pushing multiple tb per day
 I think it's like $1 per TB to go over
 @Xorpad, DRM won't work on bullhead
 I know... that's why I'm trying to get it going
 It just won't.. tada
 it has to render to the FB but you can pipe it
 Well not sure... But umm good luck
 I'm having fun anyways lol
 :D
 I'm not sure how to explain you how this works
 I know how linux works for the most part
 and I know what can and can't be done... almost everything can be done unless it violates the laws of physics
 the question is, will it be done
 can I do it?
 it's challenging
 Anyways, I'm working my way though stuff, making some good progress, at least I did all last night
 Even if all the work I've done ends up getting throw out, I have learned more about the system I will be working with
 I'm constantly learning while I do... I haven't done so much linux kernel stuff, I made my own hobby kernels for pc but only started getting into linux kernel maybe a year ago
 so every day that I dig into the code, the closer I get to having all the knowledge I need to pump out lots of ports
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/0X4cRn04/file_2505.jpg
 i guess drm you mention is not digital rights management but sometging else...
 @Flohack, Ship it!
 I actually forget what it stands for, I think digital media rendering or something... It's related to hardware accelerated gpu
 @KrisJacewicz, The graphics thing
 ok because i wasnt sure thwre are so many abreviations these days and they are ambiguous
[15:27] <tgBot> * Xorpad has no idea what he's doing but he's confident that it's leading to a good place and things are on track with learning /adapting to new project new environment, working with git and managing all sorts of commits and updates and fixes
 I mean, I have a background is OS/Compiler development so it's not crazy for me to do this stuff, but it's a new project and I have a lot to learn before I'm really in the groove
 @alan_griffiths, Wilco. Just need to find one of our vBoxes that is capable
 My jounry to ubports began with me wanting to put together a simple android ROM that was debloated and had everything I wanted... Wasn't even gonna code anything
 a year later here I am
 Good progress flo !
 @Xorpad, i did compilers/interpreters for few years
 I have a gcc fork
 but I don't share it
 I'm going to start a business where i compile sources with my compiler for them
 arm = 13% faster benchmarks with my fork, aarch64 11% faster benchmarks
 i was more into interpreters though because i was more turned on by memory and object management than by lexical and grammar analyzers
 ryzen cpu optimizations, I got over 3% improvement over gcc -7.2
 @Xorpad, i am sirw pascal compiler faster than any c++ by a lot
 *sure
 I just hack stuff together
 one thing I've learned... I'm not good at making algorithms, another thing I've learned is I can still come up with any one I need, it just isn't as good as the publicly documented methods from mathematicians
 So like my algorithm might be 20% slower than the insdustry standard, but I make it myself using logic and it works
 I like re-inventing the wheel with coding
 imho the big bloat woth c++ are templates, there are ppl who preach them, but when use thwm alot the make process devours memory and time
 so I invent algorithms that already have amazing versions just to challenge myself
 I dislike and can't really use C++... When I use C++, it's like C with C++ mixed in for higher level functions
 I really like C though
 @Xorpad, C++ is itself just a macro for C
 and it has leaky abstraction of certain things 😆
 @Flohack how so? I wasn't aware, I thought c++ just have a std c namespace
 @Xorpad, Its sarcastical ^^
 I am not too up on things really... if they don't talk about it at blackhat or defconf or 33c3 I don't know it
 lol
 33c3 was awesome
 I love conferences with other technies
 We need to flock together lol
 i also mainly like c and when doing c++ i feel grateful for pascal. pascal became objective before c bacame c++ and the version of compiler then only changer minor number to 5.5 :D  … and novadays everything that is considered C#'s improvemwnt over c++ actually is taken from delphi (object pascal) because creator of c# was the crearor of turbo pascal and dwlphi
 I hate pascal syntax
 also lua was based off dwlphi
 @Xorpad, i love it, absolutely human friendly unlike c languages that look like someone spilled non alphabet characters
 maintaining someone else's cose is a pleasure and abreeze
 @ubports_ot
 I like Python, C, and assembly... Which works out god because I can make C libraries for my python framework to use, then I can make assembly optimizations to the c based python libraries, and I can even use my GIL defeating kernel samepage hack that lets you run multi-core with python... Like those 3 languages are all I need for what I do
 sorry @UniversalSuperBox
 in c you cant figure out your own code after not dealing with it daily for a while
 c is awesomly portable
 @Xorpad, precisely speaking the poi t of libraries is that u can make them in anynlanguage and reuse in any other because they are compiled binary machine code
 @daltson is right we should move to OT
 we can chat in there, we seem to have similar mindsets with coding
 I know I'm the one who goes off topic all the time but I don't mean to
 bed time here
 okay man
 have a good sleep
 we will talk another day:D
 We should collaborate on an UT API
 for UT specific apps
 Like how android as the SDK
 Would anyone be down for that?
 we could just implement features as devs request them, but at a certain point we would need to stablize the API
 @Flohack, WoooHooo!!
 Isn't all the Qt stuff already the API for Ubuntu Touch? My aim wouldn't be making Ubuntu Touch specific apps, but Qt QML Apps that run everywhere (Plasma Mobile, Ubuntu Touch, LuneOS etc.)
 Yep, and if we get QtQuick2 support...
 Mariogrip said QtQuick2 support in the latest community update, but I think you have Qt Quick 2 already. Do you mean QtQuick Controls 2 (Sounds similar, but it's a real huge difference)
 Because QtQuick2 is just for creating coloured rectangles and some other basic stuff
 is this a conspiracy to blog me out of reading and understanding super group content???  CONSPIRACY!
 @JBBgameich, Yep, it's QtQuick Controls 2
 @JBBgameich, Erm, a control style. Suru style
 @sverzegnassi, Sorry I misrepresent
 @JBBgameich, The ubuntu ui toolkit isn't pure QML, and depends on some other ubuntu-specific-ish things. but you can shove whatever qml modules you want into your package already, and it should work for the most part. it just gets weird when you need to ship c++ that ends up breaking on minor Qt updates when they change internal api versioning somewhere
 @JBBgameich, Well, QtQuick2 is just the name for the whole feature set that runs QML. It's always been in the ubuntu phone, as it's a core part of Qt5. The controls package has been there for a while too I think. But some of the other sub-modules haven't been.
[16:18] <tgBot> * theMitu
 @dohbee, It's just amazing.. how are you so sure about all Ubuntu stuff?
[17:10] <tgBot> mvaisakh was added by: mvaisakh
 @mvaisakh, Hello Visakh and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Thank you for this warm welcome!
 Welcome indeed!
 @VIJAYHIREMATH1, Because I was a developer of it.
 Boom
[18:25] <tgBot> NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY was added by: NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY
[18:26] <tgBot> Sumit Cheriyan was added by: Sumit Cheriyan
 Hello devs
 newbie here...
 Hello @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 hiho nice username
 Hello Sumit and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 I was going to build ubuntu touch for my 64 bit device via this https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/devices/porting-new-device … .....is it gnna work!!
 Two new members at the same time :)  cool
 @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY, ??
 @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY, You've come to the right place
 @Crash_Burn, Thank god
 LOL
 Tmrw we gnna install ubuntu 17.10 and start installation of dependencies and tools required as newbie
 Have you taken a look at the Halium project as well?
 @Crash_Burn, no wat is it?
 https://halium.org/
 @Crash_Burn, Looks cool! :)
 @Crash_Burn, Will try to build if ill became a pro like u ppl
 😅
 There is a lot of work that goes into porting to a new device.. .but there are people here that can help.
 Conplete newbie here
 Keep us posted with your progress :)
 @Crash_Burn, Yea...i would love to see ubuntu touch running on My device 😍
 @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY, Please join the Halium group - currently there is no working port for arm64 AFAIK - but they are making progress
 Maybe try a device that already has a port?
 @Crash_Burn, I hope ill build it soon with the instructions posted on their page
 @Crash_Burn, My device is completely.new
 @Crash_Burn, high five on that username and welcome! ha
 Its leeco le2
 X526
 @wayneoutthere, Tysm!😊
 @Crash_Burn, Will it support/
 ?)
 @neothethird, 👍 good job Jan, thanks!
 how much code do porters need to write to get their androids over to Halium?
 Often, no real programming is involved.
 @h4888, Rather how many changes in config files need to be done: between 5 and 700 ^^
 aah so it's hackery and not actual manual memory management C. methinks I might be able to do that
 some one said my name or was that in the on topic channel
 yep
 i wanted to talk to you
 about gentoo
 i can't manage to boot it's image with uefi
 (Sticker, 512x269) https://irc.ubports.com/s2kSz323/file_2506
 are you booting the installer in uefi mode?
 yrd
 what's the symptoms?
 my UEFI doesn't see the flashdrive
 i tested 2 already
 i tried both dding the image and just copying it manually
 the boot flag is set, the filesystem is fat32
 I thought this was about ubports, not gentoo
 you dont 23rd yet I bootable
 oh im in the wrong group lol
 you just put the contents of the I so on a fat32 partition
 the first and only partition specifically
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/KRpAVdjj/file_2508.jpg Hello, how to configure AppArmor, my script can't acces it own directory
 @BlueKenny, You can't directly modify your /opt/click.ubuntu.com/... directory since there the app is installed. The directories you can access are the one inside ~/.cache ~/.local and ~/.config
 @TronFortyTwo, Thank you, it works :)
[23:41] <tgBot> kureta was added by: kureta
 welcome Sahin
 Hello @Sahin and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Or welcome Șahin even 😀