[00:49] Anyone else is suffering from reboots on fp2. I stopped using it as daily driver because of them. Heavy tasks, or just setting an alarm can make my fp2 reboot. Yeah, I've wiped it [01:54] ```The following packages will be REMOVED: … ciborium qtdeclarative5-qtmir-plugin qtmir-android qtubuntu-android … ubuntu-touch ubuntu-touch-session unity8 unity8-common``` [01:54] Figured out why my phone stopped working [02:15] what? [02:15] phone stopped working? [02:15] I've never had a phone die on me [02:15] It uninstalled some important stuff [02:16] only one I don't still own, 18 years of phones... I still have, with the exception of one that got taken during a mugging [02:16] oh noes [02:16] Also I don't think the stuff it installed works under the graphics stack. :P [02:16] heh [02:17] I got ubuntu running in a chroot, aarch64 rootfs [02:17] I actually did that before I disappeared [02:17] but I didn't say anything.... I was overloaded [02:18] then the power surge [02:19] I bought 2 UPS's so that doesn't happen again [02:19] between the 2 there is enough for 700 watts for just over 1 hour [02:36] @UniversalSuperBox, s/it/you/ [02:36] Right, it's 16.04 testing [02:36] Things go wrong [02:37] using apt on the phone to update will break things [02:37] It sure will [02:37] Doesn't matter if 15.04 or 16.04 or 18.04 [02:38] Yes, you're right [02:38] I'm trying to install packages to test qt 5.9 [02:38] I'm sorry [02:40] You need a ppa with everything that depends on qt5 rebuilt against the new version for it to work [02:40] Yes [02:40] Such as, say, http://repo.ubports.com/pool/xenial_-_qt59/ [02:40] Which kinda works on 16.04 for the core devices, but it doesn't work on the device I'm porting === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [02:42] @dohbee, it should be goal some way down the road to eventually make it not a problem [02:42] Because it isn't built for CAF devices [02:43] That seems to still be missing a lot. I guess there is a tarball built with it for core devices? [02:43] I don't believe so [02:43] @KrisJacewicz, No it shouldn't. The goal should be to get rid of apt/debs [02:44] Debs are insecure. [02:44] @dohbee, is it a common goal or is it just yours? cuz if it is overall common UT goal I'll get the fuck out of this platform [02:45] I think we know that this is a discussion that is currently unresolvable, and we've all heard everyone's points [02:45] @dohbee, you belong to Apple man, seriously, cuz you know better and yusers should comply [02:45] Debs are not insecure [02:45] @KrisJacewicz, Because you want to grant root to everyone else? [02:45] I am sorry to break this to you [02:45] Lol [02:45] @dohbee, allow option ofr it [02:46] Make a chroot if you want debs [02:46] there is a huge difference between not allowing vs not making a default configuration [02:46] @dohbee, Rodney, you speak like you're Apple person [02:46] You are quite rude [02:47] because of this kind of closed mind iOS is the most restrictive OS [02:47] This discussion is not helping. [02:47] @dohbee, just assertive [02:47] (Photo, 546x831) https://irc.ubports.com/m2xjOudu/file_2512.jpg [02:48] Like I said. You are rude [02:48] I'm not calling you vulgar names, just disagreeing with you while still rationalizing [02:48] I like your Harisson's Ford avatar, but I also have some contradictiong opinions with you, and I vocalize it, but I respect you man [02:49] No. You are feigning civility with veiled insults as a manner of asserting yourself to be correct [02:49] Just to summarize.. when Dalton did apt upgrade he knows what he was doing, and then Rodney jumped gun without context.. and it's not end of world yet.. can we please end this discussion right here? [02:50] i didn't jump the gun [02:50] Drop it, please. [02:50] You did [02:50] he knew what he was doing, which is why i said he broke the system, the system didn't break itself [02:50] I'm sorry if that's how you take it, honsetly, because I've no intentions of making you feel bad or look bad, just intention to disagreeing with you, not behind your back, face to face like men do [02:50] Drop it. [02:50] I'm sorry I said anything. [02:51] Delete that stupid meme image you posted then. You don't respect others by posting stupid memes, or by condescension by saying "you're like an apple person, wanting to control the users" [02:52] @dohbee, look Rodney, I even do more than that, I will now here appologise for that meme then, I take a second consideretion of how that meme could be in deed past the line, and I appologise for it, I hope you can accept this, because I'm genuine [02:54] I still disagree with some of your opinions (with other ones I'm on same page with you), but I've no interest in breaking good relations with you, alright man? I want to cope with all of you here, you as well [02:56] i don't need an apology. what i need is for you to realize why your comments were disrespectful, and to think about that before making similar comments in the future, not just to me, but everyone else as well. [02:56] https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct … "Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. [...] A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one." … You are agreeing to the code of conduct by participating in this community. Please, I understand that your opinions on software installations differ, but that doesn't mean that we need to make the room uncomfortable. [03:03] @UniversalSuperBox, Dalton, I am an assertive and straightforward person, and I speak up what I think. I respect others, but at the end of the day everyone has its own standard for cutlural/emotional/etc sensitivity. … And here is my constructive criticism to quoted part: … "A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one" - I can't control how people feel. Not always it is up to you whether or not a 3rd pe [03:03] feels uncomfortable or threatened. And also, "uncomfortable" is unavoidable in achieving progress. I've forgotten the times I was in college living stressless life under the adults babysitting me before I'm ready for real world that smacks you right in your face. I thought we need to be able to achieve amazing things as a team that works together well and where we respect each other. Not that we have to love each other and get in each others' asses. Liking so [03:03] same as respecting someone. I can achieve common goals thru cooperations even with someone I don't like, if I respect him/her. … That is showing what kind of person I am, and what you can expect from me. I won't call any one of you "asshole" but I will say when I disagree with any one of you, without sweet talking. [03:04] *Licking someone's ass [03:05] call me oldschool, I'm '84 Polish, won't change. [03:06] Shall I PM you so we can discuss? [03:06] (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/j9HQ66aI/file_2513 [03:06] @UniversalSuperBox, you're welcome to [03:09] ahhh [03:17] I want to offer something that could be interesting to this (heated for some reason) discussion in the future. The original Canonical spec for image based upgrades did not say that it was the only correct way to do things. [03:18] It said that "the use of apt/dpkg will remain supported with most devices having some kind of switch to opt out of image based updates and re-enable apt" [03:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/ [03:20] That is different from doing mount -o rw /, and then doing apt though. And it is not to support doing upgrades with apt, but to install specific packages for development/testing purposes. It was never meant to be a general purpose tool in the way it is on PC installs of Ubuntu [03:21] Also, my statements weren't about what one might arbitrarily want to claim is "correct" or not. I was simply stating what is more secure. [03:21] I think that clearer language could have been used on both sides. [03:21] But regardless of that, the tone of comments about it from Kris were unacceptable and rude [03:22] @dohbee, And what do you think Dalton was doing here? Former or Later one? [03:24] @bhushanshah, I don't know why you are misunderstanding what I typed, or what the intent of my statements were. You seem to think I was attacking Dalton (which I wasn't, and his comments there didn't indicate he thought I was either), and thus you are somehow trying to defend his choices to me. [03:24] Honestly, there are a lot of compelling options for doing upgrades better than IBU works right now. Like OSTree or an OverlayFS of some type. We can't get far enough to evaluate or even consider them, though, if we sit here and bicker about the "Perfect" system, or what he or she said, we're never going to get anything done. [03:25] I think that everyone in this situation could have handled it better, and let's strive for that in the future. [03:26] Anyway.. I'll just go grab a cup of tea.. laters.. it's best if we stop this discussion right here .. right now [03:26] whatever. [04:06] @UniversalSuperBox, you are a great mediator Dalton, every teams needs one, thank you! [04:06] @UniversalSuperBox, +1 [04:08] hi [04:54] Hello [05:01] how's it going guys? [06:04] Very glad that we can donate via *librapay*. A lot cheaper than patreon or paypal which I used until now. … I wish more people would use liberapay. [06:08] fee: Patreon takes 5%, Paypal 2%+something and liberapay between 0.8% and 0.59% (best case) [06:38] Mmm LiberaPay, need to check it out [07:39] What lunch target should i select for arm64 device while building ubuntu touch? [07:39] Help here [08:02] @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY you have to have the specific version of the source with that phone haveing support [08:05] Like, you can't just build an image for generic arm64 [08:11] @Xorpad, examople please [08:11] Well, there is no arm64 chip exactly... arm is just a starrded set of instrucution sets for programming [08:12] ARM Holdings maintains the ARM standards and licenses out the rights to use it [08:12] @Xorpad, So shoukd i go for aosp_arm-eng [08:12] No [08:12] 😅 [08:13] those images are for the emulators [08:13] you can't use them on a real phone [08:13] arm/aarch64/mips/x86_64 targets are emulator targets [08:13] Then what should i go for? [08:13] Cofused af😅 [08:14] Or should i target the arch or device which has same specifications(portig?) [08:17] @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY which device tou are porting to? And which docs you are following? [08:18] @bhushanshah, I am porting to leeco le2 x526 [08:18] And the instructions i am following is https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/devices/porting-new-device … @bhushanshah [08:19] That's ummm [08:19] Old docs [08:19] @bhushanshah, New docs please😊 [08:20] https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/introduction.html [08:20] @bhushanshah, Its written halium? [08:21] Just I noticed, is the halium project common for other is also like sailfish etc.,? [08:21] I mean is it required to build different hybrid for UT and sailfish? [08:21] @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY yes... Ubports will use the halium for new devices [08:21] @shenoy13, Different hybris [08:22] @shenoy13, Halium project is common Android base, it can be used as a base for sailfishos but it's not being used right now [08:23] @bhushanshah, Whats halium basically? [08:23] 😅 [08:23] @bhushanshah, Ok [08:23] @NOT_A_NORMAL_XDA_GUY, halium.org === Elimin8r is now known as Elimin8er [08:38] Brian was added by: Brian [08:40] Hello Brian and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [08:41] Halium is a platform for running linux on on android devices [08:41] you could think of it like a hypervisor, since it is containerized [08:45] It's otherway around actually [08:45] Android inside linux [08:47] Well, android is linux [08:47] but I was trying to simpllgy it [08:47] Like officially the android kernel family is still called linux [08:48] Okay.. Android inside GNU/Linux [08:48] It's linux inside linux inside linux [08:48] ad infinitum, [08:48] lulz [08:58] It's not 'android inside linux', it's 'android blobs inside linux' :) [09:08] yeah [09:08] There is open-source drivers for some devices [09:22] I don't want to pour gasoline on any flame wars about the vision for UBPorts, but I would like to state the following: … UBPorts is never going to be for everyone. The project has attracted FOSS embracing people like myself as well as a good number of very skilled developers. UT is a very, very long way from being an alternative mobile OS for more than a few, albeit steadily increasing, bunch of people. … Most of us have come here because w [09:22] the alternatives out there and many of us like to have a phone that can be tinkered with. However, the majority of UT users probably want a stable phone that can perform the basic tasks you expect from a modern smartphone today, and are content with the fact that many popular apps will never be available on our platform. UBPorts must, of course, cater to these users, but I wish this can be done without limiting the ability to customize the phone in terms of w [09:22] installing apps, use it for convergence purposes etc. For me, UT has become infinitely more interesting in the last couple of weeks with the knowledge about what can be done on the phone. I am aware of the risks though, and I have borked my UT devices more than once. … I see some heated discussions in this group, and I think that is OK as long as we act civilized and respect each others views on things. We all want this project to succeed, but for that to [09:22] efforts from a good number of smart people - also developers that explore the boundaries of what UT is capable of. … I understand moving UT to 16.04 is a daunting task, probably more so than I can imagine, but I am optimistic it can and will be done before too long. In the meantime, I think that many of us perceive progression as being rather slow, and therefore new and interesting stuff to try out makes the wait easier to bear. I think these "hacks" are al [09:22] long term development of the platform. Some things may even be useful for the average user looking to have a phone that "just works". … Hopefully people in this community can continue to get along and work together to develop UT into the awesome platform it can be - catering to average as well as power users. … My 2 cents... [09:23] Ubuntu Touch serves a purpose [09:23] once we get it running on more devices we could see a spike in the user base [09:25] The fact is the market is dominated by 2 OS's that suck [09:25] and people should have freedom to use something better [09:26] iOS is totally locked down, android is totally bloated... UT is nice [09:27] @TomasOqvist, this is true [09:28] @Xorpad, so is this [09:30] @TomasOqvist, As I never tire of saying, 'flavours' would be nice. Not practical now but in the future… [09:31] Estate version, hatchback, four wheel drive … [09:33] @Stereofont, iOS flavor, Android flavor, "do whatever you want" flavor... [09:42] @TomasOqvist, Emulating iOS or Android would be suicidal I think. They will always do that overkill better. But flavours according to need, for sure [09:57] @Stereofont, I wasn't thinking about emulating, merely the concept of "locked down" vs. "completely open". This could probably be accomplished with a "you have been warned + are you really sure" kind of switch 🙂. [10:17] @TomasOqvist, I totally agree on this and please @dohbee and @KrisJacewicz create your own channel for intense discussions of deb vs click, if you like. Nothing is gonna change in the next few weeks or months, UBports will not enter any discussion about packaging formats in that way. By the way you forgot snaps, what about them? Flatpack anyone? Choose your poison. And about security: Clicks are as insecure as debs as long as there is no review proc [10:17] for clicks. Currently everybody can upload anything to the store, and we cannot review each app as Apple is doing. That is something that would be ultimately necessary for "secure" Apps. [10:20] And please, accept each others opinion and dont get uncomfortable. We have so far no moderation in this group but it can be that we have to add it, if things continue in this way [10:30] I don't think a chat channel is the right medium for this discussion right now. It doesn't maintain enough context. … What I think is needed is first to clarify the requirements. Different "Personas"[1] will value these requirements differently, but without structure this discussion flounder. … Clicks, snaps, flatpacks, debs etc all score differently against different requirements. A blogpost about the how they score against (for example [10:30] support, ability to customize, stability of device, different security models, etc. would go a long way towards structuring this (very necessary) discussion. … 1. https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/personas [10:33] @alan_griffiths, Because people think only from their standpoint, not even trying to see the needs of others here. Everyone is fine to make with UT what he wants, but please do not try to superimpose it on "the standard". Some things will contradict each other, and the OOB experience will not satisfy everyone. But yes, its more productive to deliver evidence-based data about pro´s and con´s and not produce FUD about "security" in one sentence. [10:35] @TomasOqvist, I would go a little further. A core common to all but with a custom 'toolbox' for each distribution, reflecting what is most useful to that user group. In part that can be achieved through app installation but probably can be eased by some architecture tweaks and removal of elements that will never be used [10:36] TheImpulson was added by: TheImpulson [10:37] * delijati to long discussion for a chat tool use email [10:38] @TheImpulson, Hello Aayush and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [10:39] @milkor73, Thanks Milan. [10:39] Hi Aayush. Is our India group of interest to you? [10:41] The link is in @ubports_news [10:45] @TomasOqvist, +1 [10:46] Enrique Torrubia was added by: Enrique Torrubia [10:48] Hello Enrique and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [10:49] @Flohack, in case some of you didn't notice, i am not against any one packaging format, and I totally accept click as well. I have stated that before. When i said that i d like it to support xmir so i can start using it as well. So hopefully it eventually does start allowing xmir apps to work with it too. [10:49] Hello everybody. [10:49] Hi [10:50] * Federico [10:51] @KrisJacewicz, Its not a common goal, its the meaning of a single person. But your answer is really not helping the case here. This is what I want to point out. You say you are not against any packaging format, why you use the f-word here? [10:53] @Enrique Torrubia, Oh, also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news [10:56] Ok, thanks [10:58] @Flohack, then let me explain the "f- word", i assumed we are all adults here and this is not a censored chat, ans it was within, say, fair use. I was not aware there was a rule forbidding using "f- word" but if there is i will obey. [10:59] it was not used as a vulgarism for the sake of being vulgar but as a instrument for maximum of emphasis [11:00] but i dont hold personal avers to any of existing packaging systems [11:01] and i did not state that i do, rather expressed avers to stripping users from access to tools they may prefer over whats default, because that was suggested by Rodnwy [11:02] @KrisJacewicz, You are speaking in front of over 1000 people. You cannot know how they receive your message. You know, in communications, the responsibility is always with the sender, not the receiver. You can speak like this with people you know better, and where you know how the receive it. Consider this as a chat where diplomacy is key to success. We take patience and politeness with every member, to explain slowly, through language barriers, for [11:02] sake of the project. Thats how to bring people together. [11:05] @Flohack, Being in the profession of communications, I second this! [11:07] @TomasOqvist, cool whats your job [11:08] @Flohack, I am running my own IR (Investor Relations) agency in Stockholm. [11:08] understood, and agreed [11:13] * gunawanpp820 [11:40] @TomasOqvist, Agree with this [12:15] @TomasOqvist, Nice! I know a few projects that need cash injection! One of them starts with UB and ends with S. ;) [12:16] Looks like we’re moving to stockholm! [12:17] also, i fully agree. I like a bit of joking and some ''adult references' are hard to avoid, however, in this forum I am totally against swear words, personal attacks and anything else that would make the dialogue look like drunk men in a bar discussing politics [12:18] Always remember we have a new persona arrive at our cocktail party every hour and a welcoming team dedicated to properly representing who we are. What image are we showcasing? [12:19] On that note 'high five' to this 1K+ community for not needing moderation yet as @Flohack said somewhere above === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [12:35] we are at 1024 member [12:35] 1024!! [12:35]