 Are you an app developer? Would you like to be? Do you have no idea what's going on with some of that UITK stuff? … We've got something for you. … Check out https://api-docs.ubports.com/ for automatically generated content about developing Ubuntu Touch!
 @Ern_st, i have been waiting for 5 minutes that did not come yet! :(
 @UniversalSuperBox, have you ever heard of the news channel, buddy???  want me to promote this for you?????  Like my question marks????????
 Go for it
 yay!
 @UniversalSuperBox, FEEEEEEL it!
 Dalton, what about adding a link to the tutorials : https://forums.ubports.com/topic/742/version-1-1-of-the-virtual-machine-used-in-the-ubuntu-touch-programming-course & https://forums.ubports.com/topic/184/ubuntu-touch-programming-course/32 somewhere around ?
 Wayne, i guess succesfull setup of the online account for Nextcloud, but no calendar ? did you activate it in the setup of the online account ?
 @wayneoutthere ?
 desolee but I haven't even tried.  i just downloaded the file sycn yesterday and no time
 but i'm getting close to quitting now (my eyes are burning and back broken) so hopefully soon???
 Thus have a good night ^^
 @Ern_st, i did calendar... hmm. how did I do that.  let me check....
 i think I did Owncloud
 but i have a next cloud server
 so you tried NC but it failed?
 Are you in devel or stable ?
 uh... devel i think
 yep. devel - just checked
 No, with my nextcloud server the Nextcloud online account and the calendar sync works. But for some person it's that the calendar sync doesn't works WITH the nextcloud online account.
 weird..............
 so yuou want me to log in with my online browser thing for NC and see if the calendar is working?  One thing happened for my business
 my business partner who is foolish and uses Apple products cannot get the calendar to sync
 but it works fine on my thunderbird...
 that is a mystery this month for sure... maybe related?
 i was thinking maybe it's because I didn't upgrade my NC server in a LONG time
 here is a question; is there a family friendly Off Topic group where we could discuss this?
 here join here and anyone else who wants to watch us chat about this: … https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhGOmNABsfHPyYFGVQ
 topic is: owncloud/nextcloud
 :)
 all are welcome in the Lab if you want to follow.  But it keeps the blah blah down for those here who dont
 @Ern_st, Not the purpose of the api docs, but I agree that's a good idea
 Yep because at the end it's a example how to use it ^^
 #rememberthisdalton
 This one also could be interesting even if not entirely complet ... http://qmlrocks.github.io/tutorial/advanced.html #rememberthisdalton
 @dohbee, thank you i ll hv a look into this
 @dohbee, then perhaps it is a matter of the version of click on my image. because i tested that it does not keep the flag on my phone. i flashed ut to Nexus5 though so can test there as it has different image than mx4 which i tested on earlier.
 @dohbee, for me click is not required at all i hv my own installer i was thinking about other users, and having to manually do sth afterwards is not better than just installing it from my installer
 @Flohack, or faking user agent
 @dohbee, that makes me devwlop an idea that there could be more than one webbrowser on ut, ie: … - the current one for handling webapps and confinement. It could allow to set flexible user agent per webapp. … - another one could be used as a regular webbrowser which does not spawn webapps within itself and whether or not it has to be confined, idk, would prefer not but that just me perhaps … - 3rd one could be named with "desktop mode" so
[01:41] <tgBot> visually distinct from the 2nd, and it would load webpages as a desktop user agent. it does not even need to be a separate application from the 2nd one just have a modified launcher that adds a command line param for desktop mode and should be able to open as a separate window from the 2nd one … just an idea not a proposal, take it or not. user would not need to be directly aware of the 1st and 2nd+3rd would allow for separating mobile and desktop modes int
[01:41] <tgBot> browsers, but actually instances.
 @KrisJacewicz, well you claim click is broken. if you don't care because you have your own installer, then what's the issue? if you want to see the issue fixed when installing as a click, then a comparison of the before and after .desktop files will help isolate the issue and perhaps fix it
 re: your browser suggestsions, there are already alternate browsers available. anyone can install them and use them instead of the default browser app
 and webbrowser-app should already have code that automatically switches between mobile/standard user agents depending on window sizes (ie, so that one could get non-mobile versions of sites that are broken when using windowed mode on an external display)
 the solution to some issue in the core browser is not to ship multiple alternate browsers by default, though.
 @dohbee, i missunderstood, yes i will test off course, as i said i have tested on mx4 will also test on nexus5 because they hv different images
 i was refering to pastebin part
 @dohbee, yes that i understand
 would be nice if there was a nice rendering engine that wasn't built on top of 20+ years of code getting sloshed around by all kinds of different people and companies with different interests
 but writing one these days is nigh impossible
 :-/
 @dohbee, i know a guy who done just that but not for webbrowser but a general rendering engine
 just started testing on UT rwcwntly
 engine for rendering what?
 anything graphical, he will try to publish PDF viewer on UT based off his rendering engine
 and super fast too even comparing to some commercial ones.
 if added DOM on top of that could make a webbrowser rendering
 (Photo, 1280x1267) https://irc.ubports.com/RrDgA58W/file_2679.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x257) https://irc.ubports.com/hpyrXibW/file_2681.jpg
 this guys is also a veteran in Object Pascal, we became friends as I was popularizing Lazarus on UT
 crazy it's been a year and Lazarus still not being the major IDE for UT and Plasma, I need to do better job
 :D
 i don't see why it would be
 @dohbee, because u are not familiar with it thats why you dont see ;)
 there is literally no better IDE for visual RAD development on the entirety of Linux platforms
 i don't need to be familiar with the ide. i'm not terribly familiar with the qt one either
 you can build QML applications in lazarus?
 afaict it's aim is to be an open source clone of delphi, built on free pascal
 making apps with lazarus is a breeze and right after you done you can immediately open your projext on another platform and compile natively there as well
 write once compile everywhwre. after wrote app for UT it can be compiled foe desktop linux windows osx as well
 and also the ide itself runs off your phone which is on-device and off-device (x forwarding) app development
 i will be realeasing a customized package for lazarus  that is UT aware
 that did not answer the question i asked
 @dohbee, yes currently stable bindings are for qt4 and qt5 bindings are called alpha stage
 no, not qt4 or qt5. QML
 i have not yet made qt5 apps with it it is in the pipeline though
 no qml and lazarus are separate approaches. sure u can make use of qml but it will defeat the purpose of lazarus which does not depend on writing code for UI
 not building pascal apps using wx with the qt backend. i mean writing actual QML and javascript and being able to use the ubuntu ui toolkit and everything that makes an ubuntu phone app and ubuntu phone app
 it uses visual deaigner
 and its own library of GUI compone ts that just use whichever widgetset to draw it
 gtk qt etc
 qml has its own defined components
 so opposite direcions really
 with qml can you creaye completely new GUI control feom scratxh?
 i don't think the problem is that i'm not familiar with lazarus here. more it seems that you are unfamiliar with the goals which made ubuntu-touch ubuntu-touch
 because with lazarus you can and atop any widgetset
 @dohbee, oh i am but i also think that you dont control whether people decide to follow your goals or not, you show them choices and they make the call
 after all Canonical abandonned thwir goals already once
 imho they skipped completely some great alternative aspects but well
 you have the choice to use lazarus already. so why do you feel the need that you should be forcing it upon others?
 ultimately what is more important, making sure your usage follows official goals or that u are able to make apps easily and get your ideas to realization fast regardless of what someone else thought the goals were
 @dohbee, i absolutely dont foce anyone nor think it is a good idea to do so
 I did use an expression "major IDE for UT" but I did not mean the official
 major as in popular
 but alternative
 I never ever have assumed for a second that I would force anyone to it, nor ever have I felt that qml approach was bad
 well, it can't do the things that make an app an ubuntu phone apps
 so like i said in the beginning, i see no reason why it would be the most used IDE in this context
 @dohbee, that I totally agree on, but it's a fair trade-off, it can do many things that ubuntu touch apps cannot really
 @dohbee, not even most used, just major as in popular one that matters
 I have a personal dedication toward popularizing it as such
 and even then, I mostly want to target users who already use Lazarus, but not UT, to invite them to come over to UT platform
 i don't know what you think it can do that qml apps targeting ubuntu-ui-toolkit can't do, in the context of running on an ubuntu phone
 most of promotion of Lazarus for UT happens outside of here, I target people who already use lazarus on ARM linux, like on single board computers
 @dohbee, because I don't limit myself to the context of ubuntu phone
 Lazarus IDE is for making apps that are not just for UT
 but for any Linux AMR or intel, also OSX, windws, and even some more exotic OSes
 could you stop talking in circles? i can build QML apps that run on both ubuntu phone and windows if i want, as well
 I want, however, to customize Lazarus to UT context better by releasing (current work) some dedicated libraris and components
 show me an app built in lazarus that looks like a native app on ubuntu phone
 and not an unscaled gtk+ app running under Xmir
 @dohbee, can you create your own visual components in your project that was not defined in qml?
 what does that mean?
 @dohbee, I  could render components that look exactly same as native ones, but I don't have that goal so I have not made such controls
 i can write custom widgets in c++
 QML has a number of defined looks of visual controls and that's it
 or i can have QML/JS to draw stuff on a canvas
 I don't like the native buttons for example
 I can make any button that looks and behaves any way I like
 @dohbee, yes but in cisual way? or by code?
 QtQuick Controls lets you change the style of widgets easily too
 what do you mean "visually"
 I did some simple apps with qml in the past and it is just not a great experience to create GUI with it, compared to how Delphi style visual designing works
 @dohbee, like in Delphi or C++ Builder (which is Delphi also)
 well, bacon is probably not going to sit well with someone who hasn't eaten any meat their entire lives, either
 @dohbee, I am releasing scalable controls, and later on I will use qt5 which probably will make scaling not a problem
 @dohbee, point taken
 i don't know what you mean about delphi or c++ builder
 you said "visuallly" so visualize it
 point me at a video, not meaningless brand names
 the way you design app GU with components, componet palette, object inspector, that Delphi has introduced to the IDE realm, is more user friendly and easy to use than what currently is available for qml app development
 well that's your opinion
 and perhaps it is if that's how you've always done things
 @dohbee, I see, I have a video recently recorded for my product, the video is in Chinese, but it shows the IDE, both on PC (1st half) and on Android phone (2nd half) this is my own IDE (cross-platform) but it uses Delphi style visual designing: … https://youtu.be/rHkCJdZ8GUk
 don't need to watch it all, just skim it
 15:07 part for example where I open up component palette and drop component on the form to manipulate it in a mobile-optimized IDE form designer
 that's just editing basic properties afaict, not fundamentally changing the style of a widget
 @dohbee, yes well I don't hv a video sample showing how to make a new custom control, sorry
 afaik, qt's designer can do the same thing you're doing there, with size/text/whatever
 the only real issue with the qt designer side of things was that ubuntu-ui-toolkit did not play nice with it, so you couldn't really use it
 the idea is that you drop some other components, some very basic like TRectangle which is a rectangle that can have or not have a border of any style and whichy can have or not have a filling of any color/pattern/image, some very complicated high-level, and after you put them up together you make that into one custom component
 Btw.. just for record.. anything can be done with qt/qml, considering KDE Plasma, and also Unity (to some extent) is written in Qt/QML..
 but migrating the uitk stuff over to be based on qtquick-controls-2 should solve that issue
 so you can create a button of your own shape/color/style with extra features inside or outside of iut
 @bhushanshah, oh I know, it' snot about what can/can't be doen, but about user firendliness, easiness of doing it
 for me, it's easier to just write code
 @dohbee, well then I won't be able to convince you, and I get that
 I will rather try to convince other people, because you have a clear preference, and that is fine with me, I totally understand
 also the part about qt5 apps for windows, it depends on qt5 being installe don windows, that is fine too, but with lazarus not a requirement, because when you want to compile your app you can link it against any widgetset you have on your system, so I can choose whther I want to compile the very same app on linux with gtk+ or gtk3 or qt4 or qt5 or sth else
 my app is not widgetset-specific
 that is pretty neat if you ask me
 so if i open same project on OSX it will compile it linkied against the widgetset that OSX has (was it cocoa or sth)? Programmer doesnt need to care
 i've used enough to know that's not really a great thing
 but can if he wants to
 @dohbee, I get it, I don't thing that there is one superior solution that fits all of the scenarios best
 and I also want to be understood, that I am not at all against on in disfavor of the current way of making native UT apps with QT5/QML, I embrace it
 I just have a personal agenda to popularize an additional alternative and possibly brin some new group of users into the UT platform
 if you can't do that by working to fit the apps getting built by lazarus into the confines of what it means to be a confined app installed from a click package running on a ubports device, i'm not sure how much benefit there would be to that, if any
 more devs is nice, but only if they're actually willing to try and fit into the confines of the platform
 @dohbee, 1. I want to find way to confine apps made with lazarus, I so far failed using click, but I will re-approach this, and also next in my pipeline is qt5 apps with lazarus which should solve the problem as Xmir will no longer be involved … 2. I want to allow users to take advantage of unconfined apps. You may not agree with me but that is not my problem, I personally want to be able to choose whther or not I want all that confined with 
[03:44] <tgBot> app, and sometimes I do, some other times I don't. I want people to have choice as well. Especially because I think of my UT phone as my own computer that I get to decide how I do things.
 @dohbee, I don't agree wit you on that one frankly speaking. Even if you are saying those devs would not be welcome, I still will try to make it happen.
 the choice of what an app is allowed to do needs to be of the person using said app, not writing it.
 @dohbee, confinement is about packaging not coding I thought, as with click, when you put your confinement profile in json manifest. If I take my unconfined app and clikc it with the apparmor manifest it becomes confined, no?
 @dohbee, and also I don't agree. User's freedom is to choose to install the app or not. Devs freedom is to write what ever he /she wants to write
 what i am saying is that devs who are not invested in following along with the platform's goals, are not going to be helpful and supportive people in the community. they are going to complain all the time
 there are use cases that you may not be focused on, but others are interested to explore:
 @KrisJacewicz, freedom and security are not the same thing.
 - UT as IOT server/client … - dedicated integrated systems for dedicated customers, ie. for corporate users … - proprietary systems
 @dohbee, i agree 100%
 @KrisJacewicz, these are vague things with no real meaning, nor do any of them negate anything i have previously said in here
 here in Tawian I really liked that one beach, Someone went to swim on that beach during typhoona alert, got drowned. GOvernment closed the beach off as dangerous one, because it was safer. Now noone can use it.
 that has nothing to do with anything
 @dohbee, or you don't want to see the meaning I try to convey. People make products, and UT can be used as part of a system, not necesarily it is only to be considered a end user smartphone. There is added value in customizing it beyond the design that is the default one envisoned for the UT platform. … Also, when UT handset lands in the hands of its owner, then some, like me, will not care about the default or right way of using it. I myself
[03:52] <tgBot> what I want. And I am not the only one. So if you are not welcoming this type of users, I also understand, but I will still hang around and also try to bring more people in.
 @dohbee, it was supposed to do with that I agree that security and freedom are not the same. Perhaps you didn't get it, but that's what it was supposed to be related to.
 you can install gentoo on your handset for all i care
 but then it is not a ubports handset
 @dohbee, well, I have chosen UT, does that bother you? I want to understand you
 no, what bothers me is your abrasiveness and insistence that ubports should basically just be a gentoo install by default where you can do anything you want as trivially as possible
 I want for it possible on iOS to be able to run a daemon like I can on Android, or to access filesystem, but that's not how Apple wants me to use iOS. … If UT becomes like that, I will perhaps try your suggestion with gentoo. Until then, Iwill use UT because it is far better choice on my phone.
 @dohbee, no Rodney, you don't understand what I really want, and you are wrong
 I even explicitely stated multiple times that that is not what I want, what you wrote
 then perhaps you should re-examine the statements you've continued to make, because that's exactly what it sounds like you persistently advocate for
 @dohbee, I am sure it is not, but in case I'm wrong you can quote me
 i mean you literally just now complained about how you don't want to use the APIs which iOS provides and you want to do it outside the scope of what the platform has defined
 @dohbee, YES, but nowhere I said it should be default, so I don't know how you can so quickly extrapolate my words into a bigger statement that I never expressed
 possible that my expression is not precise, but also precise that your interpretation is not good
 @dohbee, and actually NO, again nowhere I said that I "don't want to use the APIs which iOS provides" - you totally made that up yourself
 i can't anymore.
 @dohbee, please go have a tea then
 please stop.
 I think Rodney, that you somehow believe that I am against all the good stuff that is meant to constitute for Ubuntu Touch user experience. Am I right that you think so? … Well, actually I am not, I want to emphasize this. I fully accept the design of UX for Ubuntu Touch, including confinement and native looks, all of it. … At the same time, I am interested in going beyond that design, and taking freedom in making things in my own prefered 
[04:13] <tgBot> not advocate for turning my prefered ways into official or ndefautl. I want to make this clear, I really do, because after we had our first fallout, I went on to read up on you on the Internet and people picture you as an excellent proffesional, with lots of amazing credit attributed to you, for example on your LinkedIn  profile. So I do somewhat care for you to understand my standing, although if you don't want to, I can't make you. I would prefer to coopera
[04:13] <tgBot> if you aren't interested, then it's fine with me as well. However, it IS NOT OK to attribute things that I have not said to me.
 The neat part is that if you guys can get through this, your relationship and potential collaboration could be epic. Wouldn't that be a neat ending, eh??
 Two smart dudes make Ubuntu Touch more awesome
 Night!
 @wayneoutthere I really dig your audio casts
 I'm listening to this one now https://ubports.com/blog/the-audiocasts-3/post/ubports-millennial-member-audiocast-mma-103
 @wayneoutthere, well I'm totally impressed by Rodney's background knowledge and skills, so despite  some tentions I would like to get good relationship with him
 @KrisJacewicz, We will get there if a will exists
 @Christopher, Many thanks. Without @exar_kun they wouldn't happen...or they would suck ha.
 Is there a ut group on matrix?
 Fwd from UBports News Channel: [english] … Are you an app developer? Would you like to be? Do you have no idea what's going on with some of that UITK stuff? … We've got something for you. … Check out https://api-docs.ubports.com/ for automatically generated API documentation to help you develop for Ubuntu Touch!
 *mind blown*
 wooohoo, how awesome is that?
 good morning everybody btw.!
 @peternerlich, Super cool. That is a good start!
 well, it's not much, but it's the beginning of [the end]! (substitute anything good for the end]
 The beginning of the end of the documentation missery
 exactly. hey, you act as if you weren't in the news channel. if you were in @ubports_news, you would have known this for a few hours already. everyone should be in @ubports_news, especially if he cannot afford to read everything in the supergroup. if that's you, go to @ubports_news immediately. all the big important news stuff is there. there won't be any spamming at 30 fps either, it's a channel, not a group, and only the important stuff will 
[07:02] <tgBot> @ubports_news.
 so go to @ubports_news everybody!
 @KrisJacewicz, Kris, only a question about Lazarus GUI. I'm interested in finding a complete toolkit that allow me to develop an app for desktop mostly (Windows and Linux). I'm oriented towards applications based on mathematical operations and equations solving. I would like ti know
 @Matteo, absolutely but not sure if this will belong in this group chat, so u are welcome to pm me and I will be happy to help u evaluate lazarus's usefullness to you
 Ok thank you. I'll do it. I just changed a bit the wording above, mostly I'm interested in matrix manipulation. Thanks.
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/ArdAlF0u/file_2683.jpg
 Taipei has an expo where I saw this small ubuntu/debian stand and posed with Ubuntu Touch UBports edition on my Nexus5
 next year debconf is happening in Taiwan, any of u will be here?
 debconf 2017 will be taking place in Hsinchu where I live
 https://debconf.org
 *debconf2018
 Kris 😁👍
 @jonny, Yes, ubports and ubports-ot
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/cIlOn0pC/file_2685.jpg
 @jonny, #UBportsOT:matrix.org and #UBports:matrix.org
 @JakobBouw, If you see it you won't believe what happens next!
 Sorry
 it's ok. nice wood you got there
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/5NGDXPEE/file_2686.mp4
 @jonny, Yes
[10:40] <tgBot> garyabc0123 was added by: garyabc0123
 Hello @garyabc0123 and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 This is also for everyone else: Go to @ubports_news. … Seriously. Especially if you grow tired of reading every message every day. @ubports_news
 Hey, has somebody tried this? Is there a way to install Ubuntu Touch on iPhone?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCbD9VW8KFo
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CORaeXAFVlo
[12:07] <tgBot> vi9076 was added by: vi9076
 @vi9076, Hello Vinton and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[12:17] <tgBot> Hobbit_1 was added by: Hobbit_1
 Hello @Hobbit_1 and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Also, you might be repelled by the amount of messages going through our groups at times, but still interested to stay up to date about our project. In this case, lucky you, there's a brand new News Channel! @ubports_news
 @AresMinos, Nothing is impossible but I guess the probability is about 0.001% 😀
 @Stereofont, I would say maybe only 1/2 promile probability😁
 in the french group nice demo of miracast to PC from UT via bash script
 Fwd from lduboeuf: ah ok ^^, humm le script c'est pour Linux bien sur, sinon en gros c'est pour faire ça: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYm4RUwwo5Q
 @jonny, yes.
 @LarreaMikel, whoops.  hard to know when a question will be answered. sorry for doubling my bad
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/ugCJ5N1G/file_2696.sh
 did a small bash script ( need ssh access to UT ) to be launched only on computer side: if anyone can test
 @lduboeuf, just shared your vid here (super sympa ce que t'a fait!)
 @AresMinos, I would need first to know 'is there a way to totally remove the apple logo from the device and add or remove that button so that no one thought I was supporting the Fruit Company? :)
 @KrisJacewicz, la video n'est pas de moi ^^
 @lduboeuf, i see :D
 when you say "need ssh access", does a phablet-shell is enough ("adb shell") or do we really need to configure SSH keys and so on?
 this script does not use phablet-tools, only ssh, so will not work. but i think only small change needed ( your Ut still need to be in the same LAN)
 @lduboeuf, Ok, thanks 😊
 @lduboeuf, What does it do?
 screen casting of your UT to your computer
 Oh, interesting, so you can use that to make your PC your UT monitor?
 no you cannot interact with it
 It has been tested on bq EX phones?
 @wayneoutthere, You could laser etch away the rest of the back to make it flat. Or change the apple to a bigger logo of some sort. Or just put some back cover on the device
 @dohbee, how about a portable torch at a busy intersection or in a mall?
 @TronFortyTwo, yes
 i wrote a mini tuto on doc and wait  @UniversalSuperBox  to accept my PR
 @wayneoutthere, ?
 @lduboeuf, https://github.com/ubports/docs.ubports.com/pull/30
 yes that one
 @lduboeuf, 👍🤘👏
 @anpok are you forking on GH in circles? ^^
 ubports/android_kernel_sony_msm8994-1 forked from LineageOS/android_kernel_sony_msm8994
 @dohbee, There is a penguin sticker for that
 stickers are so… unrefined
 @AresMinos, I took a quick glance at it and I assume that's just emulation
 as you run it through an app on your phone...
 so nothing is flashed and stock firmware is intact
 @vanyasem, nonentheless !
 it's the same way i booted android on my windows CE phone ~9 years ago, yeah
 you could install Android on iPhone 4 and lower
 but that's it basically
 @vanyasem, and very few people wanted Android at that time
 certainly nobody with an iphone really wanted android on it
 i get sentimental every time windows CE gets mentionned, I used to program apps for HP Jornada 680 and 720, these devices were amazing for the time
 but android was already outselling iphone then
 i still have one
 (Photo, 259x194) https://irc.ubports.com/k7Hta0jD/file_2699.jpg
 @vanyasem, ah, to bad then :/
 just don't waste your time with this locked bloated crap ;)
 android?
 or ubuntu phone?
 iPhone!
 or anything Apple
 Android as well I guess but de-googled ROMs are remotely okay
 UBports is the thing :P
 the only real issue i have with iOS devices is they don't support non-LE bluetooth well
 are you going to ignore the face they are propetare anal probes?
 I've heard Ubuntu community has no interest in freedom but to that extent...
 @vanyasem, +1
 apparently i'm ignoring the fact of how rude you are, and proceeding to attempt actual intellectual conversation
 the system design of ubuntu on phones/stablets with the unity8 stack was strongly following the lines of what iOS does
 no comments on that
 I won't even bother trying to explain something to you
 I dont know any other OS that limits its owner's ways of using it more than iOS. Since that is by their design I dont have a problem with that as long as I dont need to use it or as long as i dont need to write apps for it. but when o do write apps for it the amount of times i simply cannot do somwthing only on iOS that i can do on virtually any other OS on the big market is too much not to feel some kind of way about iOS
 @KrisJacewicz, Windows phone
 you are welcome lol
 @vanyasem, actually no, not at all
 they prohibited all GPLed software in their store
 ok that is sth different than what i feel affected by
 lol what
 ubuntu is literally in the windows app store
 https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too/ … https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/02/windows-phone-marketplace-bans-the-gpl-and-the-app-store-should-too/ via DuckDuckGo for Android
 2011
 (Sticker, 390x512) https://irc.ubports.com/SQqDOQKe/file_2702
 @olisax, for use directly with adb, just try  `adb exec-out mirscreencast -m /run/mir_socket --stdout --cap-interval 1 -s 384 640 | mplayer -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=384:h=640:format=rgba -`
 need to update my doc...
 @KrisJacewicz, I had a collection of Palm Pilots :)
 @Flohack, yes,,
 gh went unpässlich after I tried a project import
 so i just forked it .. but the name was already taken
 .. for now on that qcom soc has to be named msm8994-1 or msm8993
 I will cleanup later when the other project settled..
 oki
 just try to stick with original name ^^
 just make the codename be unpässlich
 😂
 sounds unique enough
 Me tries to understand English translation for that
 @bhushanshah, hard to translate. Its very formal, old german
 Google says.. "unwell"
 Not sure how close it is
 It doesnt really match the meaning
 @bhushanshah, Its indisposed
 that would come close
 Yes thats a better translation
 I'm really showing my ignorence here ... can my libertine container be updated to 16.04 when ubports is  still on vivid?
 @wayneoutthere, +1
 the reason i ask is that firefox appears to be available in xenial armhf repos : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/armhf/firefox
 @padraic7a, not sure if from the libertine gui but manually ues
 *yes
 i had it done so its a fact not guessing
 @KrisJacewicz, how would i go about that Kris? I know you have written about this before ... could you point me to something that would walk me through it?
 @padraic7a, i would think ff was in 15.04 but id not why not compile from sources?
 I have looked at the mozilla guides for compiling from source but it looks over my head frankly
 @padraic7a, there are more ways than one and so dont assume that the way i will propose is the best one or anythink just how i went about it
 @lduboeuf, oups, beware process on device still running even after kill computer side
 i used debootstap to make chroot with 16.04, i describe the general process here: … http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2016/12/easy-containers-on-ubuntu-touch.html
 then i replaced libertine co tainer with it
 so i actually had an existing container made with libertine with 15.04 thwn made another with xenial and used it to replace the old one
 i do not remember at this very time if i had to do anything special in the libertine script since i used dwbootstrap and libertine i think uses lxc, but i dont remember anything particularly dificult or tricky it went all smooth
 as i said there are many ways and there may be a better one than what I mention
 HOWEVER what may work for you is just download the ff deb for xenial and change the file name (yes just the filename of deb) to not contain any xenial specific sufix
 and it is possible that you will be able to install it with sudo dpkg -i
 it have worked for me many times
 @KrisJacewicz, well that sounds like the easiest thing to check
 unless some other dependencies go in your eay
 *way
 @padraic7a, try and let us know
 will do
 so i guess u are looking into some particular version of ff? because virtually any debian distro will have ff in default repos, just maybe not the version u want
 @padraic7a, you probably shouldn't upgrade the chroot to a newer version of ubuntu, but you can create a xenial chroot with libertine no problem
 @dohbee, how would you do that?
 @padraic7a, probably a command line switch just like with debootstrap
 look into libertine's scripts what they hv in the command line and replace vivid with xenial
 @padraic7a, how did you create your current container?
 @KrisJacewicz, yeah i have ff on my M10 but it's stuck on version 44
 oh, you have the pre-installed container i guess
 i don't recall the exact command
 @dohbee, libertine-container-manager create -i container-name
 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/11952542
 cat that libertine-container-manager script
 @padraic7a, add "-d xenial"
 find command line with vivid in it
 replace with xenial
 @KrisJacewicz, why are you telling people to read code, when the man page or --help will do? it makes things more confusing for people
 @KrisJacewicz, try downloading that and dpkg -i it
 you can't install firefox from 16.04 on 15.04
 @dohbee, why? you tried? i habe in the past installed many 16.04 debs on older versions
 of ubuntu
 @KrisJacewicz, for the same reason we never shipped a 16.04 image of ubuntu phones; C++ ABI changed
 @dohbee, that is not always an issue, sometimes u can still install and it works i have done it many times
 https://medium.com/@george.shuklin/how-to-install-packages-from-a-newer-distribution-without-installing-unwanted-6584fa93208f
 it somwtimes is fasyer and less work than preping a chroot with newer distro
[15:36] <tgBot> Alexander Tissen was added by: Alexander Tissen
 @KrisJacewicz, no it's not always an issue. i didn't say it was.
 whether it is recommended way is another story but u said "you can't" so i want to know why you can't
 and you are free to hack your system up in unconventional ways that may break all you want
 @dohbee, "The container distribution needs to match the host ditribution [sic] for chroot based containers. Please either use 'vivid' or omit the -d/--distro option."
 @KrisJacewicz, i told you why. the ABI is different
 @padraic7a, then u still can change the script
 @padraic7a, then pass "-t lxc"
 i guess it is not always sufficient to just read --help
 @KrisJacewicz, please stop with this garbage advice of "just change the source code" as a means to solving problems that don't need such changes
 @dohbee, "System kernel does not support lxc type containers. Please either use chroot or omit the -t option."
 @dohbee, listen Rodney I am not going to stip I answer a question and padriac will make his own call if you jv a problwm with that that is not my problem, you can advise him that another way is better but you cant force me to share what i might have to say
 you really arw bwing difficult and i loose patience with you
 i wanted to try make friends but i dont know if i care any more
 my problem is that you don't seem to be interested in helping users, but seem intent on telling people the most complicated and difficult ways possible to "solve" their problems
 it's not helpful and you're just creating a massive bunch of confusion
 @dohbee, lets wait and see if your advices will help him, then I will congratulate you and vote your solution up
 I appreciate your help folks.  … Kris, I am going to try the more "legit" or default options first and if they don't work at all I'll look to the more unconventional methods.
 @padraic7a, smart choice
 @padraic7a, weird, i thought the kernel on the m10 supported this :-/
 maybe you can just dist-upgrade inside the container then after changing /etc/apt/sources.list to s/vivid/xenial/
 i'm not sure why it won't let you create a chroot container that isn't the same version as the host. there's no reason it shouldn't work
 I think I remember trying to set up an lxc container back in the Canonical days ... I can't remember if it worked or not. ...
[15:46] <tgBot> <Alexander Tissen> Hello! … I have commercial Idea for Ubuntu Touch and looking for development.  … Who will be interested? At first I need competent consultation. … Kind regards, … Alexander
 @padraic7a, or maybe try "-t lxd" perhaps
 (Photo, 487x146) https://irc.ubports.com/YsQntxUP/file_2709.jpg
 (Photo, 491x130) https://irc.ubports.com/40yBD7N0/file_2711.jpg
 what are you doiong kris
 i am confused
 I want to ask you if the later advice is not against the former,  possible that I don't understand
 so that is why I ask
 to clarify
 don't worry I'm not after you I'm npt a kid
 I ask you to elaborate
 if you care to that is
 well, doing a dist-upgrade in the container is not a preferred method, but it is something i would suggest before things that involve installing extra packages into the root fs, or changing source code
 @dohbee, lxd doesn't work anyway. Trying dist upgrade next
 i see, theank you
 @padraic7a, do you mind waiting a inute? I am testing something
 sure
 if I don't get good result you can just ignore it
 advice to users should start with trying to solve the problem with the least invasive methods possible, and only escalate to more invasive methods when they fail. rooting the fs and changing source code are generally the highest things on the scale of escalation
 it helps to build the flooring and walls, before putting the roof up
 @Alexander Tissen, Hello Alexander and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @dohbee, I agree on this one
 starting off from the assumption that everyone is a skilled developer that would understand the code is bad. and if they are, they probably already started looking down that route anyway, and would let you know. :)
 Even skilled developers should prefer something that works without needing to understand the sourcecode.
 @alan_griffiths, This.
 @Alexander Tissen, this sounds exciting. you are welcome to PM me on the side or we could create a 'lab' and chat there?
 @wayneoutthere, PMs in progress
 @alan_griffiths, exactly. hence my suggestion of starting from least invasive options. ie, this is how i'd do it if it were my problem on my machine.
 @UniversalSuperBox, good stuff
[16:27] <tgBot> theultimatum was added by: theultimatum
[16:37] <tgBot> Jay_Zh was added by: Jay_Zh
 @theultimatum, Hello Christopher and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Jay_Zh, Hello Jayand welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 so I have installed 16.04 xenial libertine container on my vivid Nexus5, and here is what I found: … after I got the container up and ready, it turns out that the Libertine app, which you use as GUI to manage container, ie add packages etc., that it wasn't happy about the container being 16.04 and without any asking just destoryed the container on its own and informed me that it was no more. … I'm affraid that in such case no matter what me
[17:01] <tgBot> to make the container, in the end similar thing will happen. I will try to look into it tomorrow. I found the creation part to be easy, but then using it turned out to be not possible with the standard Libertine GUI app.  … For now you may be better off just using a non-libertine container, but you off course can try your luck, maybe it will turn out differently for you, in which case I will be happy to hear that.
 well, i guess if you just don't use the gui app that won't be an issue perhaps
 @dohbee, btw i was not ultimately thinking about rooting fs or changing anything at all in the read-only fs. I would just copy the script to my home, comment out literally one line (#70) and run it from there, one time thing, then delete it. quite clean if you ask me.
 in fact this is how i did it
 @dohbee, also you must never use it even accidentally otherwise your entire container is no longer without any warning
 also guys you are aware that while you don't advise somw of my hackish approaches in this case there may not be a non-hackish solution after all? by the principle when u ask howto install 16.04 container with libertine on vivid that is hackish questipn right there. and you then have all that anti-hacking attitude. I don't get it, but it's okay.
 In that case, it's a bug that should be fixed by hacking and released so it doesn't require hacking.
 It's a workaround, not a fix
 it's not anti-hacking attitude. it's anti-forcing-users-to-be-developers-because-someone-made-a-bug attitude. :)
 in principle asking how to create a container of one OS on top of a different OS, is not a hackish question
 in the same way windows users don't have to write powershell to install the "bash (ubuntu) on windows" container, ubuntu users shouldn't need to either, to create a container of a different version of ubuntu
 In a nutshell: You can hack, but most people don't want to.
 @UniversalSuperBox, im not sure if that qualifies as a bug. Libertine does not want you to be able to install 16.04 container in it if its on 15.04 host. It doesnt want you to, with high verbosity. That is not a bug, it's feature
 it is a bug
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/libertine/+bug/1649649
 If it means that an expected feature of Libertine doesn't work, it's a bug
 sometimes certain "features" have to exist because there are underlying bugs in the dependencies
 well libertine by design tells you that you cannot install different distro container than what you have on your chroot. that is intentional. I cant agree with you guys about this being a bug if it is intentional. Unless off course you are saying that because it is aware of its own bug so the way to solve it is to intentionally forbid you from creating a container which does not match your host distro.
 it is not by design. it is by happenstance
 i already asked the main libertine authors about it
 libertine disabling the feature is to work around a bug in proot
 or perhaps the bug is lower level and in the kernel
 another way to solve it would presumably be to get the lxc bits in 3.13 backported to the 3.10 kernel in the m10, maybe fixing how the capability is checked for in libertine, and building a new image (or building a ubports 16.04 image on the existing android stack)
 If it's not in Android at all, we have a shot
 jik;
 Is Libertine a dead duck now, or is there any continued development?
 it's as much dead or alive as any of the rest of the system, really
 Doesn't seem to be maintained anymore, but it shouldn't be needed in 16.04
 undead
 You could use anything you want to run x apps with xwayland without much tinkering around
 lxc containers are wonderful
 @samzn, of course it would be needed in 16.04 still. it's necessity has nothing to do with the version of ubuntu
 too bad irc doesn't support editing too
 @dohbee, Right, because it's needed to run "desktop" apps, right? Or am I misunderstanding you Sam?
 libertine is just the necessary bit of glue between the containers and the end user
 well it's not absolutely necessary to run legacy X11 apps, itself. but without libertine it's much more painful to do so, because you have to do all the stuff manually
 libertine is just a way to manage that stuff easily, get the apps showing up in the launcher, etc
 (Photo, 698x753) https://irc.ubports.com/0AGKiPay/file_2716.jpg YOU ALL NEED A NEW BOAT LOADER
 OMG.. you and your boatloader again...🙄
 If the boatloader doesn't work, nothing else goes well
 (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/z3VQUf3m/file_2717
 @peternerlich, I am there. But I cannot reply there 😉
 hmm.  now that's an interesting point....
 well once everyone is actually subscribed we'll probably post in both
 but right now we are trying to get everyone on one stream that has a nice condensed veresion of what matters
 egon told me to never cross the streams
 ^^ and thats why I like volunteering with UBports! 🤘
 @lduboeuf, Hello Lionel, I am trying your script now but getting this error ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.104 port 22: Connection refused … MPlayer 1.3.0 (Debian), built with gcc-7 (C) 2000-2016 MPlayer Team … do_connect: could not connect to socket … connect: No such file or directory … Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
 Could you please help me? Thank you in advance
 @malditobastardo have you previously connected to the phone over USB with phablet-shell, or can you ssh in directly without the script?
 Last time I connected to my computer was months ago, I think it was using adb. I will give it a try now again because I dont remember well. Thanks
 @malditobastardo you need to `android-gadget-service enable ssh` on the phone, before ssh will work
 @dohbee, Thank you sir. I will follow your advice and also I will read some docs to understand what I am doing because I dont remember too much.
 np
 Back to the earlier discussion - should dist-upgrade still be an option for updating the libertine container?
 I was looking to edit the sources.list in the container but don't have an editor  - and trying to install anything gets 404 responses
 well, apparently the GUI management app will end up destroying the container
 but if you avoid using that, i /think/ it might work ok
 ok, I didn't understand that the GUI management app would destroy the container if updates this way.
 @padraic7a i'd say duplicate your current container, so you have a backup, and then try to upgrade one and see if it works for you
 assuming you installed anything else in it beyond the default
 inside the container what would the command to upgrade be?
 well after you tweak sources.list to point at xenial instead of vivid, it would just be `sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` inside the container
 and read very carefully the list of packages that will be removed and such before hitting Y
 hi im not booting hybris-boot. can you help me?
 also a good idea to do it via phableet-shell rather than inside terminal app i think
 I haven't used phablet-shell. Is that better than ssh'ing in?
 Or is that the same thing?
 phablet-shell is ssh over usb
 which is better than adb
 ssh over wifi can have some issues when the device starts trying to go to sleep
[19:40] <tgBot> Volkmar was added by: Volkmar
 @sopernam, He cant boot his built halium. He built halium for xperia z5 and he flashed. Device is bootlooping now. He cant boot correctly. He wat help
 Hello Volkmar and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @sopernam, hm?
 @dohbee, Working now over ssh :) . Thank you :)
 so the next problem..
 @malditobastardo, great
[20:30] <tgBot> Seannyboy was added by: Seannyboy
 @Seannyboy, Hello @Seannyboy and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) … Note also that there is an important news feed which condenses the 'many words' here into notable news chunks:  click this to subscribe to that channel: https://t.me/ubports_news
 Cheers wayne
 no prob. Enjoy community
 Guys, It is possibile to install libertine on ubports based in Ubuntu touch 15?
 @Mattia, while the scope and management app i think are not installed by default (you can install the scope from the ubuntu.com store), the libertine tools should already be installed
 you should be able to use libertine-container-manager to create and manage containers, from the terminal
 I haven't understand what apps i have to download from the store
 https://uappexplorer.com/app/libertine-scope.ubuntu
 you need that scope installed to launch the legacy apps from the dash
 Thanks i'll try
 you need the terminal app installed to use libertine-container-manager to create the container and install apps in it
 So i updated. Firefox won't open from the Libertine scope now, and trying to open it with: libertine-container-manager exec -i 4firefox -c "firefox" … results in  … Error: GDK_BACKEND does not match available displays
 @dohbee, sorry to bug you, sir, but search engines are not helping me and I was wondering, in a few words, what is an 'x app'?
 @wayneoutthere, an app which depends on X11 to work
 @Mattia, Libertine is already installed
 @dohbee, hmm. ok, thanks. i hear it quite a bit
 Check this out … https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/libertine.html
 @padraic7a, i'm creating a container in a vm i have to test and see if i can give you a good answer
 @dohbee, Cool, thanks
 @TronFortyTwo, Could anyone else with an M10 try to create an lxc container? It didn't work for me and possibly it should have
 @padraic7a, it's not doable because of the kernel version
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/kG7GyqLo/file_2722.mp4
 kernel!
 it needs features only available in newer kernels
 @padraic7a, does `ubuntu-app-launch 4firefox_firefox_0.0` do anything?
 because i created a container in my vm that's running 16.04 and unity8, and i can run firefox with ubuntu-app-launch ok
 but the l-c-m exec ... line as you gave, also gives me the GDK_BACKEND message
 @dohbee, Ok, when I saw it mentioned in the documentation linked above I thought it worth asking.
 @dohbee, I'll give this a go in the morning and come back to you. Thanks for taking the time to check it out
 Anyone having problems using ssh on the m10 terminal?
 To use key authentication I need to use SSH_AUTH_SOCK=0 ssh
 Is it just me?