 @Roujin13, If you meant which image to use on your phone, it depends on your goals and device, but you should generally stick to stable.
 @dohbee, I have a Nexus 5 so I think I'll use.
 @Rocco, the easiest way is to use my command line installer directly on UT Terminal app, the installer will get u all the dependencies and get u Lazarus up and running:  … https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus-for-raspi-and-ut/
 it is open source so you can see  list of depes inside, also it is interactive and you will see what gets installed. … You can install Lazarus on UT with these commands in Yerminal app: … #download installer: … $ wget https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus-for-raspi-and-ut/files/lazfpc4ut.tar.gz … #extract: … $ tar -xf lazfpc4ut.targ.gz … #install Lazarus+FPC: … $ ./lazfpc4ut … #install all deps: … $ sudo ./lazfpc4ut
 runnig with sudo installs deps. … running qithout sudo imstalls the Lazarus itself and adds app icon to your apps scope, because ot installs into your userspace (so no need for sudo). … Installer also works on raspi.
 one of the screenshots from the page shows dependency packages though::
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/uQjPPM9f/file_2802.jpg
 Hello :)  … Can I Make apps for Ubuntu touch from my MacBook?  … Or web apps?
[08:34] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> the easiest way is to use my command line installer directly on UT Terminal app, the installer will get u all the dependencies and get u Lazarus up and running:  … https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus-for-raspi-and-ut/ … it is open source so you can see  list of depes inside, also it is interactive and you will see what gets installed. … You can install Lazarus on UT with these commands in Yerminal app: … #download installer: … $ wget
[08:34] <tgBot> https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus-for-raspi-and-ut/files/lazfpc4ut.tar.gz … #extract: … $ tar -xf lazfpc4ut.targ.gz … #install Lazarus+FPC: … $ ./lazfpc4ut … #install all deps: … $ sudo ./lazfpc4ut … runnig with sudo installs deps. … running qithout sudo imstalls the Lazarus itself and adds app icon to your apps scope, because ot installs into your userspace (so no need for sudo). … Installer also works on raspi. … one of the screen
[08:34] <tgBot> packages though::
[08:37] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Thanks a lot Kris... I'll try.
 @onajjar, what kind of apps would you like to make?
 @Rocco 3, let me know how it goes
 At start , web apps I think
 Do I need Ubuntu OS , or can I make them from my MacBook
 @onajjar, then you should be able to do that quite easily from UT, therr is even app for making web apps on Open Store
[09:19] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Yes Kris...
 @KrisJacewicz, Thank You 🙏🏻
 @onajjar, maybe try this: … https://uappexplorer.com/app/webapp-creator.jujuyeh
[09:21] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> But development into UT device isn't so difficult ? On my ubuntu notebook ?
 UT stand for ?
 @KrisJacewicz, I’ll try it and see :)
[09:22] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Ubuntu touch
[09:23] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> I also will develop apps
[09:23] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Of course
 :) me too
 And I have this question too , … After I’ve installed UT on my Oneplus one device , do I need to do anything after that ., I mean in the terminal ? Updates , upgrades ? Any suggestions?
 Any reliable email client ?
 @onajjar, Dekko
 @onajjar, do you need something? if so, then install it. we can't guess whether you need something or not
 @onajjar, yes you can. if you install GNU/Linux on it. I remember running Xubuntu on MacBook Pro
 screw MacOS.
 @onajjar, it is possible to do things in terminal BUT it is not required. So no you do not have to.
 @Rocco 3, elaborate what do you mean
[09:29] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Elaborate...yes
 @onajjar, i thought that you do not need ubuntu fpr making web apps. But now Im not sure anymore after Ivan suggestrd otherwise...
 webapps are crap and should not be considered Development
 @vanyasem, i dont hv anything against osx, it's iOS that bothers me.
 @vanyasem, that's basically a wrapper around the browser
[09:33] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Yes, webapps ok. But true apps...
 @vanyasem, Thats opinion-based suggestion :)
 @vanyasem, not sure if it's right to discourage others.
 @vanyasem, But it’s not supported any more ?
 @vanyasem, the whole store is filled with webapps. please stop with that
 @onajjar, dekko 2 is supported by @DanChapman
 @KrisJacewicz, that can't be considered"development"
 @onajjar, Dekko2 is the new version but still in beta. For normal things Dekko is OK
 @vanyasem, that's "adding a shortcut for a webpage"
[09:35] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> @vanyasem, True
 @vanyasem, 👍🏻
 @vanyasem, Thats also opinion-based. Webapps can fill a gap that we cant fill otherwise. In fact I would be glad if there were no Apps at all. Since HTML5 you dont need them, except for companies tracking you better ;)
 @vanyasem, Not if done correctly. Sure, it may be simplistic in comparison to more native-like development, but it is NOT an insignificant or negligible means of accomplishing a similar task, especially considering the use case.
 @vanyasem, Dekko is fine. It works well. Dekko 2 will replace it in time but being under development it is not ready for use as your maoin email client.
 @vanyasem, i dont agree. hou still are putting up business logic and algorhthms in javascript. It os possible to build very complexed systems using webapp approach and perhaps much more complex than anything you will ever build. It really os relative and subjective. … Webapps were invented to address specific problems better. Not to hanle all problems better in general.
 For the real development apps , can I develop apps for Ubuntu touch from Mac ?
 @onajjar, yes, but if you face issues with click, etc, you probably won't get proper support
 @onajjar, there is no native SDK that runs in MacOS. So, you cannot compile them.
 @vanyasem, Why you say yes ;)
 @Flohack, I also hate installing an app for every website, but native apps just have way better performance which is their advantage.
 because I want Osama to suffer with compiling everything.
 :)
 @vanyasem, and then failing miserably
 Heheheheheheheheheh
 @vanyasem, no, what u sescribed is only a choice of a person not a definiton of a webapp. … Just like in any other language or in any other dev tool you can make a "shortcut" to wrap something else around.
 Thanks Ivan :)
 just install Xubuntu to your Mac dual boot
 that's not too hard
 why bother with bittenappleOS
 @KrisJacewicz, This is very true. Hell, it's even possible to make something all wrapped around in C, but still be nothing but a host for the web content within 🤷‍♀️
 @onajjar, yes, you can. … not sure of you will be able to make native qt5 apps for ut without Linux vm, but you certainly can on OSX make native apps that will work on UT as well.
 there are more than one way to make apps for UT. Even more than two ways, since webapps also were mentionned.
 everyone is telling his own thing, I believe @onajjar is confused as hell now
 I am so sorry
 @Flohack, well architectural chroot on OSX  should be possible to create and compile them natively.
 @vanyasem, It’s ok really ! I’m taking notes now )
 @JBBgameich, performance is relative. not always an app has performance requirements that require native performance
 @onajjar Im thinking that if u want to create apps for UT then u probably have or plan to have UT device. So if you have UT devoce and also Mac computer, then u have all u need to create apps for ut natively. U can run app dev tools from your ut. U dont hv to write code on the phone screen though, you can start dev tools from ut onto your mac monitor rwmotely over ssh with x forwarding. I do this with Ubu tu, you can do this with OSX or Windows
 @KrisJacewicz, WOW! What a great advice ! I’ll try this today after work !
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/g5honx1r/file_2804.jpg
 @KrisJacewicz, I'm here now. Is  … "#install all deps: … $ sudo ./lazfpc4ut" required?
 @onajjar, i know of this x server to use on OSX for x forwarding: … https://www.xquartz.org
 @wilder_Hund, yes, sudo will install dependencies
 Thx
 and without sudo installs the lazarusbitswlf
 @KrisJacewicz, Thanks a lot Kris
[09:50] <tgBot> kaushal7007 was added by: kaushal7007
 @onajjar, it must be possible to even install qt5/qml dev tools on UT but i have not done it. Not sure if u can compile the same IDE that is used on Ubuntu Desktop but u can always write code in Geany and just compile it with qtcreator.
 rootfs writeable?
 OKay, i see...
 @wilder_Hund, the installer can make it wratable for u, youbjust need to agree
 if you font then it will not install dependencies.
 without dependencies lazarus will start but u wont be able to cimpile proograms.
 All fine, it's writeable
 Install is complete. And now? 😅
 @wilder_Hund, hou can also install lazarus on hour desktop, and then u can also compilenhour apps for desktop. … You can even install Windows version of Lazarus in wine and compile on desktop natively for Linux and for windows. … You can also install lazarus on OSX and compile hou app for Mac.
 @wilder_Hund, refresh apps scope
 but you want to use it over ssh better
 Yeah. Its on. 👍🏻
 Over ssh, which command?
 ssh it to gour phone from uubuntu desktop with X forwarding, then run: … $ cd ~/.local/lazfpc4ut/fpc3/lazfpc3
 but must ssh with -Y or -X otherwise you wont get x forwarsing
 Okay
 @KrisJacewicz, $ ~/.local/lazftp4ut/fpc3/lazfpc3 … *without cd
 @KrisJacewicz, Yes, i have detected it 😄
 does it start on your desktop over ssh?
 Permission denied with ssh -Y
 It seems, that -Y -X isn't supported here. … usage: ssh [-1246AaCfgKkMNnqsTtVvXxYy] [-b bind_address] [-c cipher_spec] …            [-D [bind_address😏port] [-E log_file] [-e escape_char] …            [-F configfile] [-I pkcs11] [-i identity_file] …            [-L [bind_address😏port:host:hostport] [-l login_name] [-m mac_spec] …            [-O ctl_cmd] [-o option] [-p port] …            [-Q cipher | cipher-auth | mac | kex | key
[10:06] <tgBot> [bind_address😏port:host:hostport] [-S ctl_path] [-W host:port] …            [-w local_tun[:remote_tun]] [user@]hostname [command]
 well u need to first set it up
 read this: http://kriscode.blogspot.tw/2017/12/ssh-and-ubuntu-touch.html
 👍🏻
 i might add this to the installer at the end it can offer you help setting up ssh with your desktop, but for now this is separate and you need to set it up yourself.
 @KrisJacewicz, There is an syntax error near unexpected token `(': … #These command are all to be used on the server (UT device)! … #find out what is the remote home directory: … $ export HOMEDIR=$(ssh kris@192.168.0.101 'echo $HOME')
 Ok, the kernel is here, how about making Ubuntu Touch for iPhone now xD ? https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu
 @AresMinos honestly, getting it running on iPhone would be a huge development effort (finding bootloader level exploits/implementing kexec, porting Linux kernel, writing drivers and so on) with little gain (if you want something like iPhone, there is for example Xiaomi with unlockable bootloader)
 @NotKit, Yeah, you're right, but the thought of can it be done is so exciting :D Still, like you said, too much effort, too little gain :'(
 I think there was a project to build Linux userspace for Darwin
 @onajjar, Go into system updates for a revision. Choose rc channel maybe?
 @kaushal7007, Hello KB and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Stereofont, You mean release candidate?
 Is it stable ?
 @onajjar, It is not Stable but it is quite 'stable'
 @wilder_Hund, sorry inwas away, were u able to  set it up? did u try ssh-pull-id?
 @KrisJacewicz, 👍
 @AresMinos, There's a lot more you need, than just the kernel. Look on the android side, you have the kernel for every device, but you still can't create a port for many of them, because you just don't have the drivers or any documentation
 A very big "Thank you" @KrisJacewicz , it works!
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/rQwwkaGB/file_2806.jpg
 @wilder_Hund, what is this? ubuntu dev ide for win?
[12:19] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Where installed? PC?
 Lazarus installed on my AquarisE5 UT and it works over ssh on my PC.
 lazarus ide?
 Please see here: … http://kriscode.blogspot.de/2017/12/ssh-and-ubuntu-touch.html
 but apps are running on pascal
 or can we use qt or web
 ¿?
 Please ask the dev @KrisJacewicz
 happy it worked for u. I will extend installer to also help set the ssh.
 @tipode_incognito, it is possible to use gtk2, gtk3, qt4 and qt5, i so far only used gtk2 and gtk3
 it is natove but u can use webbrowser widget to embedd webapp content
 i used chromium with lazarus as a widget
 @tipode_incognito, the dont run on pascal they are just wrotten in pascal but then compiled to native code
 @vanyasem, Web apps are great convenient tools where a guy like me can make an app-like experience out of a website. Perfect for certain things I do and no developer would ever build an app for this so it is invaluable for me. I dont think the output should be considered an 'app' though but popular ones could be valuable to many. No matter what webapp creator app and its output has helped me much and concept is genius
 have you read the question Wayne?
 the question was if it's possible to develop apps on MacOS
 and someone answered that it is possible to create webapps
 where i stepped in telling that creating webapps is NOT developement
 webapps are crap compared to native ones
 i was misunderstood there
 they are more convenient than opening a web browser every time
 and i use some webapps myself
 does any of that make sense?
 Lazarus goes wild :-))
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/RkmF0YYU/file_2808.jpg
 @wilder_Hund, oh that's adorable
 i love it
 UBports meets nature  😄 ❤️
 @vanyasem, This is true yes speed, feel, etc. Its like a self contained web browser experience for that one site. Sorry but definitely when you use the word 'crap' it better come with a good explanation so someone scanning doesn't think you are slamming their work. I saw 'crap' and 'webapp' and it made me boil
 I would rwcommend 'slow' or 'awkward'
 electron is also crap
 and i will call it crap because it is
 it's a pity we don't have alternatives, but crap is crap
 i am a developer, and so it happened i have very straightforward views on some technology
 you may or may not agree with me, nothing personal
 A touch of kindness would go far knowing that users and the developers are in the same room. Just a suggestion for community relations
 i used to attend social communication classes and i failed miserably
 that's not a joke, that's how that is. i'm sincerely trying to adopt
 No prob. Straight shooters are never understood and i am one too but over time I learned to use more honey than vinegar and people started listening more although it is how some people are designed...
 I see and understand your crap comment and simply word switch would have avoided this annoying dialogue anyway onwards! Go build something for us
 Emoticon!! ;)
 Interesting note that I may have offended IRC people in the way I stereotyped them so I'm not without sin and still need more honey...
[13:59] <bshah> *eyeballs wayne*
 has anyboy encountered problems flashing an M10 Aquaris (Ubuntu edition)?
 or can somebody direct me to a technical FAQ ?
 @Seannyboy, it is not uncommon for me on Nexus 5 that the installation does not work. I just reboot to fastboot and restart ubports installer. the most number of times i had to repeat so far was 3. And i flashed OS on 2 different nexus 5 phones approx 10 times each
 @Seannyboy, @LarreaMikel did recently
 ugh the backlog in here :(
 @Seannyboy, there is no ubports image for M10, i think
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/767/can-t-flash-my-bq-m10-fhd-with-ubports/3
 This might com handy
 oh no, there is
 @dohbee, Should be
 "prerelease"
 @dohbee, All ex official devices from Canonical are suportes + the ports
 @cibersheep, cheers :)
 @Seannyboy, You mught start here though https://ubports.com/page/get-ubuntu-touch
 XD you're welcome
 Ive tried there pages..
 Ill try again on another machine
 @vanyasem, you interjected to disrupt valid discussion with your personal opinion on the definition of "development"
 that is called "trolling"
 @Seannyboy, Is your tablet running Android or Ubuntu?
 It was one of the tablets sold by BQ with Ubuntu touch pre installed
 @Seannyboy, do you have the correct recovery image for it? which tool are you using to flash?
 Okay, either the installer or `ubuntu-device-flash` will be able to flash it, then
 And make sure to choose the image. Notice that there're two versions of it
 the retail devices need a special recovery image to flash with, because the retail recovery doesn't have adb
 i think `magic-device-tool` grabs the correct recovery though; not sure if ubports installer does the same
 @dohbee, Oh. cool
 @wayneoutthere, Eh, this is also not exactly true. There are plenty of native apps that are way slower than using a web site, because there are an inordinately large number of people in the world who don't know how to program applications which are responsive.
 even on my i7 4790 with 4 cores and 8 threads, 32 GB RAM, Radeon R9 Nano, and SDD/HDD hybrid drive, most of the apps don't work as fast as they should, because a lot of devs these days are afraid of threads and don't know how to program with them, and they write code that blocks the UI and does excessive work
 @onajjar, You can run Ubuntu in VMWare, and run the SDK in it for native app dev, or you can make webapps fairly easily since they're just a few files to register URLs, start the webapp, and the icon and packaging.
 @Seannyboy, Join Welcome Room
 @dohbee, very fair point! never thought of that...
 @dohbee, Thanks a lot Rodney ! I’ll try it today !
[15:44] <tgBot> yf was added by: yf
 @KrisJacewicz, Hi! This is really cool...but I've one question: since I don't want to alter UT filesystem, I use Libertine containers (@TronFortyTwo OnTheRoad app) which provide RW filesystems (so xauth can be installed without problems)...Is it possible to set up X11 forwarding from Libertine containers?
 @yf, Hi $name and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and subscribe to the news feed by clicking this: https://t.me/ubports_news Thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Gravo, libertine is specifically built for running x apps on ubuntu phone
 @dohbee, Ok, so nothing to do with that! Thanks!
 @Gravo, well i don't know what you're trying to exactly, but i'm pretty sure libertine is good for it
 if it involves running an x11 app
 @dohbee, Is Qt doing the same like c# with WPF that there is 1 UI thread per default that serves the message queue?
 @dohbee, That's for sure...I managed to do it! I was only wondering if X11 forwarding was possible, i.e. running the graphical interface over SSH, being the app confined in a Libertine container
 @Gravo, yes
 @Gravo, you can do x forwarding from chroot. I don't know if that still works if you choose lxc mode for libertine, but if you use chroot then yos, you can, I have done it.
 @Flohack, The event loop is the main thread, yes. Just like GTK+. But it doesn't really matter when developers don't use threads, and so everything is always on the main thread. :)
 but that's not the only problem i was referring to
 there are plenty of other not so great decisions in lots of software, like how data gets stored, processed, etc…
 but you will still need xauth onthe UT host system. … When you ssh into UT with x forwarding, you will use the xauth on the phone to export the magic cookie like this: … $ xauth list > /tmp/X … and then in the chroot you need to import it with chroot's xauth: … $ xauth add $(cat /tmp/X) … notice that here I assumed that /tmp/X is mounted from host to the guest. Otherwise you first copy /tmp/X into chroot's /tmp/X before you get in …
[16:21] <tgBot> but that is the basic concept, and as I said, it works, I have used it.
 you don't need xauth at all
 so apparently you don't need xauth at all, so up to you, ask Rodney how to export the magic cookie, I guess he knows.  … Anyways, xauth is landing in the default UBports image anyways.
 you can install openssh-server inside the libertine container, and ssh into the container directly
 @dohbee, Agree, but then you need to change its port so that it does not conflic t with the hsot's ssh service.
 @KrisJacewicz, Agree...Also the key should be different!
 if you don't want 2 ssh servers running, keep the magic cookie method in mind ;)
 @dohbee, Why I am asking is a little bit more complex question: For example in telegram I see lots of small freezes when the datamodels getting updated. So basically we insert data into the datamodel on the worker thread that is spawned by the libtelegram incoming data event (is it a separate thread?) => then there is a signal saying messages_changed for example. That should reload the message list. Now problem is, that happens very unresponsive.
 I would expect e.g. scroll events still being handled while messages are being inserted
 yeah, i'm not sure the telegram app is optimized well for things like that
 Its not, but the question is, can it be optimized? So that it has same fluent response as Android or iOS
 yes, just a matter of fixing the code (disclaimer: i don't know the code, so no idea how complex the fix would be)
 iirc the app itself is mostly all qml, and all the actual code is in a qtquick module, right?
 @KrisJacewicz, Ok, thanks! I'll try it!
 i noticed that Terminal app ignores .bash_profile … is that by mistake or by some sort of design?
 @dohbee, Yes but unfortunately the MVVM patterns are loose: Some logic is in QML that belongs one layer below. Its not just the view that is written in the QML part, its also viemodel stuff. fortunately not too much
 right, that's one big problem with a lot of qml apps. there is a tendency to put way too much logic inside the qml, and just run the thing with qmlscene
 which decreases performance
 Absolutely. I will try to remove as much as possible things from QML. But better consider a rewrite, its always messy to do this with old, grown code ;)
 rewrites can also be quite messy
[16:51] <tgBot> lminjong was added by: lminjong
 @lminjong, Hello Min Jong and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[17:55] <tgBot> vetto91 was added by: vetto91
 @vetto91, Hello Vetto and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 (Photo, 734x223) https://irc.ubports.com/XBxgndOX/file_2810.jpg
 I can not install Ubports on canonical UT. From fastboot to recovery mode (see photo) there is this error
 (Photo, 959x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/xgNBnhS6/file_2812.jpg
 @Hunter616, Using what desktop system?
 ubuntu 17.04
 You need phablet tools it is not in the repository
 Installer 0.1.8 appimage works with 17.04
 I suggest you join the Welcome Room
 appimage as on debian does not work, the problem is recovery mode
 Why shouldn't the AppImage work on debian?
 It will work everywhere, it's distribution independent
 (Photo, 718x64) https://irc.ubports.com/BaZflXjl/file_2814.jpg
 because when restart the phone there is no longer access
 You can install a :ppa to get phablet tools
 @Hunter616, You are not trying dual boot??
 not dual boot, only image canonical
 @Hunter616, Okay, just checking
 https://discourse.appimage.org/t/how-ito-make-an-appimage-executable/80
 I've already tried appimage many times, and crashes to the adb push file command
 @Hunter616, Can you put 16.04 on an old laptop?
 I just pushed a new release of the installer, the packages for all platforms are building now and should be ready within the next hour. https://github.com/ubports/ubports-installer/releases/tag/0.1.9-beta
 wait, I'm trying something
 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+source/phablet-tools
 (Photo, 729x168) https://irc.ubports.com/OXfAiUuN/file_2816.jpg
 it's like this for 10 minutes, is it normal?
 Since the recovery is there now, try removing the `--bootstrap` option and run it again
 (Photo, 744x220) https://irc.ubports.com/Ol3000p2/file_2818.jpg
 I have 2 phones connected, YT91 .... is sony connected in USB tethering, while 75HA ... is MX4
 I'm not going to say that udf can handle more than one endpoint being plugged in.
 @UniversalSuperBox, yes yes yes!!! without --bootstrap and hiding Sony, everything work! the phone must be switched on normally, not in recovery mode.
 Interesting pieces of software, these flash tools
 @Hunter616, well, to be in recovery mode you need to have already flashed the recovery that you're passing to --recovery-image. otherwise you do need to be in booted system with adb debug enabled on the device, to flash without bootstrap
[21:29] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Kris, installed Lazarus following your link. Connecting via ssh fro my notebook I obtain this error: Permission denied (publickey)
 Where is the address for the mailing list ?
 Rocco 3 this is a ssh problem, you should check this: https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/advanceduse/ssh.html
[22:11] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> @lduboeuf, Thanks Lionel. I'm trying...
[22:12] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> How many things one must knows!!!
 @Rocco 3, or this :) http://kriscode.blogspot.fr/2017/12/ssh-and-ubuntu-touch.html
 @Rocco 3, tooo many
 @Rocco 3, 😂 +1
[22:13] <tgBot> <Rocco 3> Yesssss
 So when I do an apt-get update in Libertine, it states failed to fetch for vivid (main, universe, multiverse) and vivid-updates (same). This is expected, because Canonical removed support for them or something, right? Should I remove these index files?
 @Seumas, The servers are dead. No longer supported
 So I'll purge them.
 This command isn't quite working:
 libertine-container-manager exec --command "add-apt-repository --remove ppa:vivid/universe" --id vivid
 How should I tweak it?
 It's not a ppa. Change urls in the sources.list to point at old-releases instead of ports
 Right. New images will fix that in the system image
 We didn't expect vivid on ports to go down
 So for example in /etc/apt/sources.list I see
 http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/
 Should I change it to:
 http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-old-releases
 ?
 Just the domain I think
 Spell it out for me please bud.
 You mean:
 http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/
 ?
 Yes
 Right thanks
 ah no, it's http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
 hooray for consistency :-/
 Thanks. Also, gotta make the system writable for this. Fun.
 not to change it inside libertine container
 you need to change the sources.list inside the container
 not the root fs
 Right. Where is it within the container? Or rather within the overall file structure?
 I forget.
 same place
 hmm, i guess you can't "exec sudo vi" with libertine
 No man, I forget the location of the container in the file system.
 the container is in ~/.cache/libertine-container/<id>/root-fs/ i think
 something like that
 Cool, ta.
 I'm quickly going to shout this out here and then go to bed asap: I often observe a problem when unlocking my device, probably it doesn't take the very first PIN digit or so and I get confused, type the last one (again?) and get rejected. Then I have to try again, and if I'm not messing up, I'm in on this second attempt about 100% of the time. … I don't know whether this is old stuff or obvious due to the E4.5s limitations, in this case just 
[23:32] <tgBot> Thank you.
 I was able to do a sudo nano on the file from the terminal/root SF, rather than via libertine/the container.
 Seems to have worked.
 @peternerlich, I find that the lack of haptic feedback messes me up pretty often. Might be a PEBKAC for both of us, unfortunately. :(
 Ah, cool. I wanted to try the Vivaldi for arm, and was trying the same stuff to update my container
 Glad my question helped other people too :)