[00:15] ciao [00:15] siete belli [00:16] hey all === sony is now known as Guest73275 [03:57] QUE [05:03] hey? [06:02] kirich [07:49] mandje, it's awesome except for snapd [07:50] what the fuck is snapd and why the living fuck is it a fucking daemon. [07:50] mandje, other than that, my comment stands that ubuntu-mate is the best distribution I've used in 10 years [07:50] !language [07:50] Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList [07:51] snapd actually has mountpoints. who the hell engineered this and why [07:51] oh good god really [07:51] there are like 50 hard engineers in this channel [07:51] we aren't in kindergarden [07:52] whatever. whomever made the language rule never tried to debug video corruption [07:54] You can read about snapd in its documentation, and you can uninstall it easily [07:54] mount points is a good idea [07:56] android also uses it [08:23] oi === red is now known as Guest17953 [09:19] basilarchia, you haven´t said what snapd actually does. so please let me know. (a 9 year old girl who is innocent as hell and will be traumatised foreva by any rude language.) [10:15] Anyone know of a good Linux wallpaper changer? I tried to install Variety on Ubuntu Mate but unsuccessfully. [10:51] alkisg, a daemon that sells apps is insane. that's not a model that should be installed by default. ever. it's crazy [10:52] basilarchia: so I take it you're not using a mobile phone? [10:52] mandje, if there is a 9 year old using ubuntu-mate and hangs around in this channel then there is hope that smart people exist in the world, but ubuntu-mate on the desktop is very far away from traction at this point [10:52] Because all of them do that... [10:52] that doesn't have anything to do with how to package apps for desktop linux [10:52] I avoid snapd, but the logic behind it is sound [10:53] Of course it does [10:53] How would YOU implement per app permissions? [10:53] dude. you are crazy. name one app that is being sold that any one has heard of [10:53] the only app that comes to mind for me right now is steam [10:53] intellij idea and pycharm [10:54] so you don't register with the sites when you get a .deb ? [10:54] then ignore them [10:54] it's like 2 people out of a zillion use cases [10:54] they don't ship debs [10:54] then double ignore them. what does anyone care? [10:55] its targz that you have to manually unpack and configure, or snap [10:55] they happen to be the best available IDEs for java and python respectively. but less me guess, i should write everything in C right? [10:55] so that's their damn problem (the commercial 3rd party app makers) [10:55] basilarchia: why are you talking about SELLING things? [10:55] don't go and install a daemon on everyone's box for that [10:55] snapd isn't about selling [10:56] ok, well, it was right in the man page so I didn't go a whole lot farther than that [10:56] It's about managing permissions per application, introducing support for closed source apps on linux with limited permissions [10:56] other than it had a bunch of mountpoints [10:56] The same thing is appimage of redhat [10:56] i agree that the mountpoints are annoying [10:56] jesus. yuck [10:56] And android, ios etc [10:56] i wish there was a way to hide them from mount command [10:56] because mine's about four pages long now [10:57] alkisg, hey, if you are making money on it then fine, but you can put the snapd in the normal place where people install steam then [10:57] it's rediculous to install that by default [10:57] basilarchia: you are completely missing the point [10:57] I guess [10:57] when you make your own distro you can install whatever you want [10:58] The point is, "how can I run an application on linux with limited permissions on my own files" [10:58] ya, ok. maybe, but all and all, this dist is really solid [10:58] Because I don't trust the app [10:58] why would you ever be asking that question [10:58] I'm not asking that question [10:58] so I don't need a daemon running to answer that question [10:58] and like 99.9999% of users don't need to answer that question [10:58] so don't install it by default IMHO [10:59] basilarchia: so you are REALLY not using a mobile phone? [10:59] Because that's what you do on your phone [10:59] linux desktop doesn't need to work like a phone [10:59] is that the goal of ubuntu-mate? [10:59] as much as everyone thinks they want convergence, phones are completely different to desktops [10:59] because that's not how the operation system was designed, or how gnome was designed to work [11:00] basilarchia: how does a DE related to snapd? omg [11:00] this isn't a phone [11:00] Are you just trolling? [11:00] gnome is very much designed to work like this [11:00] no [11:00] no, I'm not trolling [11:00] Do you want to learn something, or are you just complaining and I should ignore you? [11:00] OK then [11:00] flatpak is the same as snap, except with even more layers of confinement [11:00] So, imagine that all android apps get available on linux [11:00] How would you implement that? [11:00] ok, what is the equivelent on the macos then? [11:00] in flatpak you can't even open a file without connecting to dbus [11:00] android apps will never be available for linux like that [11:00] why would you ever want that? [11:00] run an emulator then [11:01] we have the full sourcecode for android [11:01] I dont want the emulator, I want integrated apps [11:01] just put it inside a container if you want android [11:01] it's already compiled for ARM [11:01] I don't want android, I want all the apps from android to be available native on linux [11:01] so it's emulated anyway [11:01] I don't want arm [11:01] I don't want emulation [11:02] ok, so you have 32bit x86 android packages somewhere? [11:02] macos uses bundles btw. they are disk images, and they get mounted [11:02] basilarchia: no, the plan is to have an API that e.g. angry bird developers can use to deploy their app native on linux [11:03] most android packages contain no native code [11:03] hallo spricht jemand deutsch [11:03] angry birds should make a native app just like tuxracer if they want to [11:03] Then we as the users will need to only give them specific permissions, so that we don't risk them getting our /home/username data and doing whatever they want with it [11:03] there really isn't enough of an audience yet for any of this to make sense [11:03] basilarchia: close source. closed. You don't know what they do with /home/userame. [11:03] That's the issue there [11:03] tux is open [11:04] alkisg, ya, that's always the problem with closed source stuff [11:04] Of course ALL linux users would want closed source apps [11:04] wie kann ich rechte fur remote desktop freigeben [11:04] You can't force all devs to change their development paradigm just because [11:04] Open source is just ONE development model [11:04] You must support others too [11:04] !de > vas [11:04] vas, please see my private message [11:05] well, snapd seems to have all kinds of risk of a phone home daemon running as root [11:05] you might as well install nethack by default with the sticky bit set [11:05] Most daemons run as root, that's normal [11:05] ya, I know that [11:05] You're supposed to trust the open source daemon there managing permissions, instead of the closed source app doing whatever [11:06] but this is the first one I've ever heard of that is for purchasing commercial apps [11:06] personally i don't care about permissions [11:06] all the snaps i use run in classic mode anyway [11:06] they are just easier to manage [11:06] Purchases were in ubuntu store for years, snap isn't about that [11:07] there are hardly any commercial apps on the store [11:07] nobody uses it for that [11:07] no developers [11:07] but that was fairly predictable [11:07] Yes, there's no full API yet that developers could use. Not in snapd or in appimage. [11:07] ya, I would imagine that was basically a failed endevior, which is what my instinct about snapd is [11:07] i mean they pushed it pretty hard, but nobody turned up [11:07] but hey, I'm happy to learn I'm wrong here [11:07] but I'm not hearing a convincing arguement [11:07] I expect snapd to fail, and appimage to succeed, because of the companies behind them [11:07] very much. that's why they dropped ubuntu phones [11:08] basilarchia: I'm not supporting snapd, I'm just explaining why it exists [11:08] appimage will not succeed, it is too hard to package for it [11:08] well that doesn't explain why ubuntu-mate's default install needs to install snapd [11:08] alkisg, ya, I grok [11:08] and flatpak definitely wont go anywhere when they require every app to be rewritten to work with it [11:08] flatpak=appimage [11:08] Flavors have a common base, they cannot put whatever programs they want [11:08] what the other one called then? [11:09] ubuntu-standard or something [11:09] no, appimage != flatpak [11:09] why does anyone care about any of this besides intellij idea and pycharm [11:09] they are different [11:10] oracle must have .deb packages I would think [11:10] anyway, it's like, not interesting [11:10] 99% of the stuff anyone uses is free besides the games [11:10] appimage is the one that barely has any confinement, it's just a bundle of libraries basically [11:10] flatpak has the most, requiring every operation that touches the host to go through dbus [11:11] does anyone know if there is some plan to redo the applications / places and system menus? [11:11] because they are almost good but still bad [11:11] snap is also the only one that can be used to build an entire distribution - flatpka can't package its own daemon for example [11:11] or maybe all of that is coming from upstream [11:12] can't someone get Andy Hertzfeld back here to finish this interface off [11:12] it's like so close to perfect [11:12] I mean, compared to what ubuntu butchered the linux desktop into, at least there is sanity here [11:14] alkisg, so how is it intended to interface with the snapd? [11:14] is there a GUI component then? [11:14] basilarchia: sorry I wasn't reading now, interface with snapd => what part? [11:15] how does the user purchase an app that gets installed in snapd? [11:15] basilarchia: I haven't read about purchases with snap, wouldn't that be a completely different part? [11:15] That's why it sounded strange to me that you were talking about purchases... [11:16] I'm just going from what I saw from the manpage on snap [11:16] I imagine snapd is the subsystem for running the apps, not for purchasing them [11:16] I'm not using any snap or flatpak or other systems btw, I don't even have them installed [11:16] I only tracked it down because, for a second, I thought some stupid crypto repo was trying to stupidly trojen a box I was using for testing [11:17] But I do hope one of them succeeds... [11:17] alkisg, did you remove them? Then seem to be installed by default for me [11:17] Yes [11:18] ok, well, then that just goes back to my question about how the ubuntu-mate is maintaing the default packages that are installed [11:18] this doesn't seem to be one of them that should be [11:18] snapd is pulled by ubuntu-core-launcher [11:18] just my 2 cents from my pulpit over here [11:18] There are dependencies that the "seeds" system can't overcome [11:18] It's just how .deb work [11:19] removing it didn't remove any other packages, so it's not seeded in a .deb dependancy chain if that is what you are referring too [11:19] it's listed somewhere. [11:20] but is the ubuntu-mate installer like a stock ubuntu installer build? Eh, I guess I should just build. I don't have a proper mirror setup yet though [11:22] ah, the bash package looks like the stock ubuntu build. is this stuff just glued on top off all the pre-built packages that ubuntu releases then? [11:23] maybe the question is are ya'all going to build a full build infrastructure for all the packages. because you totally should [11:23] then you could more cull the herd [11:23] basilarchia: recommends: get installed, but when you uninstall them, the original package doesn't get uninstalled [11:23] Use apt rdepends to see the exact dependency [11:24] Google for ubuntu-mate seeds to see the complete list of the initial packages specified [12:33] gg [13:26] bonjour [13:27] ca va [13:27] oui et vous [13:27] aussi [13:28] j'ai un probleme firefox ne s'ouvre pas sous ubuntu mate [13:29] ll [13:30] courir dans le terminal [13:30] je n'ai pas compris [13:31] en terminal [13:31] mv $HOME/.mozilla $HOME/.mozilla.bak [13:34] francois@francois-desktop:~$ sudo mv SHOME/.mozilla SHOME/.mozilla.back [13:34] [sudo] password for francois: [13:34] mv: cannot stat 'SHOME/.mozilla': No such file or directory [13:34] francois@francois-desktop:~$ [13:35] voila ce que j'obtiens [13:35] francois, no sudo [13:35] sans sudo [13:36] simple mv $HOME/.mozilla $HOME/.mozilla.bak [13:37] francois@francois-desktop:~$ mv SHOME/.mozilla SHONE/.mozilla.back [13:37] mv: cannot stat 'SHOME/.mozilla': No such file or directory [13:37] francois@francois-desktop:~$ [13:37] meme resultat [13:37] hehe [13:37] no S $ [13:37] $HOME [13:37] no S HOME [13:37] ok [13:38] dollar [13:38] ok [13:41] francois@francois-desktop:~$ mv $HOME/.mozilla $home/.mozilla.back [13:41] mv: cannot move '/home/francois/.mozilla' to '/.mozilla.back': Permission denied [13:41] francois@francois-desktop:~$ [13:41] ???? [13:41] hehe [13:41] non mv $HOME/.mozilla $home/.mozilla.back [13:41] mv $HOME/.mozilla $HOME/.mozilla.back [13:42] non $home [13:42] $HOME [13:44] faut il redemarer [13:45] ok [13:45] merci [13:45] ok [14:22] I need some help. Variety wallpaper changer does not show on the main panel after installing it. Any reason why? [14:22] Is this an official ubuntu package? [14:25] Yes. But it does not say it is compatible with Ubuntu Mate. [14:27] Variety is in the software boutique, and works with MATE [14:27] okay [14:27] thanks [14:33] I just installed Variety wallpaper changer. It doen't show on the main panel like it did in Linux Mint Mate 18.3 How do I access it? [14:35] something similar has happened to me with Wine... I installed it but does not show on the applications panel [14:35] I find sometimes there is a delay in the menu picking up new entries [14:35] Tho menu search may find it [14:36] Or doing ALT-F2 and starting to type variety is how I normally get things quickly [14:37] Odd... I just installed "variety" to see if I had the same problem but it does seem to appear in the top right hand panel [14:38] Interesting... when I change the panel layouts, all the icons that were there before disappeared :D [14:38] I couldn't remember if it auto started. But if there, then it's ready to configure and will never be used from the menu [14:39] mate|29461: Have you been playing with the mate tweak tool and changing panel layouts recently? [14:41] I found that when I do this, sometimes the mate applets freak out and disappear... then when I change the layout again (in mate tweak tool) The taskbar icons come back again [14:42] right. I found Variety and I added a pictures folder for the wallpapers I want. [14:44] great [15:59] Right. What is this? [16:00] Nobody here? [16:00] nope [16:04] I thought I would like it when I installed the software-center, but I don't. How do you remove it? Tried remove and it didn't work. [16:07] how did you try? [16:58] Thank you guys for creating Mate [17:30] oi [17:32] tem alguém que se expressa em português ? === will_ is now known as Guest62130 [19:21] dare ga imasu ka [21:48] Seems like Ubuntu Mate 17.10 has massive performance issues