[00:06] Hi, Just got an update to e4.5, nice! but all the phonelogs got deleted, just like any reboot:( [00:37] Also does mobile data hotspot not work for turbo yet? [01:11] @UniversalSuperBox, That's right. Americans and Canadians are excluded from the deal. It has something to do with 'net neutrality' i heard [01:12] @wayneoutthere, Oh boy, you really don't like to keep the peace do you? [01:13] Sure I do. … A Peace of Pizza … BOOOOOM! [01:14] 11th cup of coffee people. I"M BREAKIN' RECORDS HERE!!!!! [01:18] (Photo, 1093x747) https://irc.ubports.com/URotIeGt/file_2894.jpg this is what I see [01:26] lol [02:07] Ismaelbonato was added by: Ismaelbonato [03:47] SilentSt0rm was added by: SilentSt0rm [03:47] Hi! ) [03:48] Tell me please, is it possible install gnome or xfce on ubuntu touch? [03:48] (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/frWMaS0l/file_2895.mp4 [03:49] @SilentSt0rm, No, the whole stack is tightly integrated to work with Unity 8 [03:50] What about xmir? [03:50] You're certainly free to try, but I don't know how you'd do it [03:53] I do not know either. But I've seen a video on YouTube where MUTE 1.8 on Ubuntu touch is being bullied. [03:56] *MATE … ** is being runned [05:46] Hello Ismael and EbreHNN and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [07:48] desktop apps doesn't really work on Nexus 5? I saw a bug about this but I think it's early this year since the last update [07:48] it's sad :( [08:17] @Javacookies, Desktop apps don't really work on Ubuntu Touch regardless of the phone. It is possible to get them to run using libertine and xmir, but there are too many issues to say they "really work". … But things don't have to stay that way and likely won't: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/795/running-desktop-applications-on-ubports-x11-wayland-mir-and-toolkits [08:20] yes, I was able to install libertine, create containers and install apps, it worked on my Nexus 7 way before [08:57] @SilentSt0rm, Xmir isn't enough to support a full desktop environment, there are too many pieces missing. (And even if those gaps were fixed I doubt you would get a good experience usiing gnome or xfce on a phone.) … Maybe you're asking the wrong question: what would gnome or xfce allow you to do that Unity8 doesn't? [09:01] @alan_griffiths, I meant deleting mir and installing x11 and gnome or xfce for support desktop apps. [09:03] weee the m10 with ota2 works okish on HDMI [09:03] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wImj5A2sI6E [09:03] Because there are very few applications for Ubuntu Touch. But as a very small PC - it would be excellent. [09:03] the browser starts, used to crash before [09:04] there are some bugs here and there, the image doesn't fit quite right, and the image quality is a bit low [09:05] also when you first run them apps they open at a wrong size (really small) [09:05] Anybody know how to use mjpg-stream or alternative software for streaming from camera? [09:06] there are also some other weird stuff, if you connect a mouse on bluetooth, the keyboard doesn't show up anymore [09:07] all I tried was swearing for missing /dev/video0 [09:08] ah and i had to connect 3 times to hdmi to work (plug/unplug), crashed unity8 1 time, second time "not accepted" or something message on the tv [09:23] Throwing the famous two cents. The hope, as a user, is that we won’t need stuff like Libertine in the future. … That’d mean that those universal packaging formats can fulfill the requirements of a mobile distribution. But that time does not seem to be here yet [09:25] in 18.04 gtk2 is beeing removed from the base install [09:25] :D that's great [09:26] gtk3/qt5 can wayland/mir, so as long the apps don't use x11 they should be able to run without xmir/xwayland [09:26] i think [09:28] i see in :wayland in snap interfaces [09:28] this means... you can run a snap that uses wayland? [09:30] so.. we need like snaps? and then we need the latest mir (so we can run wayland clients) [09:31] and then if you make a snap with gnome-calculator.. should just run? [09:31] don't know :))) [09:33] But first we need to move to 16.04 [09:33] I absolutely want desktop app functionality to remain with Ubuntu Touch forever. Choice is cool. [09:34] @popescu_sorin, That's the theory. We should have it working in practice shortly (teething troubles). [09:36] @SilentSt0rm, Start with hallium and build your own stack - it will be easier. [09:41] Anyone got advice on the Pro 5 hotspot problem? I require that to run my M10 or indeed any networked portable device with internet in certain areas e.g. work where there's no WiFi. [10:02] Hey everyone :) [10:04] AbouWassim31 was added by: AbouWassim31 [10:05] @AbouWassim31, Hello Ab W and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [10:38] @SilentSt0rm, о, Велком ) [10:57] @SilentSt0rm, yes you can but perhaps not in the way ypunimagine. [10:58] you can install pretty much any desktip and run graphical session in xvfb and access it via vnc, for example. [11:00] @Javacookies, i use nexus5 and i run plenty of x apps on that phone. i wonder what do you mean that x apps dont work on it? [11:01] @SilentSt0rm, you do not need to do that to run legacy apps. [11:03] @SilentSt0rm, UT device is a PCm think about it, PC os just a box and u need ro connect 3 things to it bwfore u jave a desktop: … 1. monitor … 2. keyboard … 3. mouse … this is what i also do with UT phone and thus for me my ut is a pocket size computer and i run desktop appsnoff of it. [11:05] Hi all. I want to ask if anyother haven't got mobile data working in the last devel on n5 [11:07] kutlay1653 was added by: kutlay1653 [11:07] @mixmoto, Another reported that last night. Stable works [11:07] @kutlay1653, Hello Kutlay and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [11:09] @Stereofont, There is some strange date behaviour too [11:09] @Stereofont, Is its a problem from last days on devel. Thanks [11:10] Confirm, not working on devel N5 [11:11] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/AWIsehiE/file_2896 [11:11] Bug [11:37] Is my problem just a MP5 hardware issue? [11:37] http://forum.flymeos.com/thread-1951-1-1.html [11:38] Affects Flyme too. But different behavior described there. [11:42] @Stereofont, last rc works too in n5 [11:42] Pretty obvious, but I have an SD card in the dual-purpose SIM slot and my cut-down Nano SIM in the other one. If that helps diagnosing this issue. [11:45] Posts #15,16 are possibly relevant, but they discuss using dual SIMs rather than a SIM and a card, so who knows. [11:52] @milkor73, Turkish Group Members are growing rapidly [11:58] Sorry [12:02] @milkor73, Do we have a bug for this? [12:03] I will check it [12:05] I have new feedback regarding Data on N5 devel [12:06] I have switched back to stable and now back to devel: and.... [12:07] I have 4G connection, everything working!!! [12:08] this is strange [12:08] Latest devel I have is 259 [12:11] @Rawcode, Can you try also? [12:13] @milkor73, yesterday i had this issue. i switched back to stable and the to the last rc and it works now [12:15] From devel? [12:16] yep [12:17] Stefano is writing [12:18] slowly [12:20] It is going to be long [12:20] He always knows what where!!! [12:39] hey all, noticed on my webapp, that javascript alerts or confirm box are not displayed. is it a normal feature ? [12:41] What type of webapp is it? does it just use the `webapp-container` command? Or is it generated using the webappcreator app? [12:41] i used alternate-webapp-creator [12:41] qmlscene %u qml/Main.qml [12:42] I think that uses a raw oxide webview so you don't get the alert popups. It needs to use an Ubuntu.Web webview for that [12:44] ok, maybe `webapp-container` would be enough ? my webapps need access to a third part website for authentification (oauth) [12:44] I think the webapp creator fixes these issues https://open.uappexplorer.com/app/webapp-creator.jujuyeh [12:45] i tried with webapp-container in the past but did not work by default [12:45] i will try it, but doing this on my tiny device is not very easy [12:53] @popescu_sorin, Yeah, but which level of integration can we reach by installing standard desktop apps on the phone? â€¦ Letâ€™s say LibreOffice or Firefox are running on phone - UI scaling issue apart - how their file dialog would integrate with the system? Afaik, Flatpak portals can use whatever file dialog is default on the platform, but snaps have no such ability. Snaps can be used for packaging CLI tools, but Flatpak apparently does not. â€ [12:53] we expect from desktop apps on a phone? Should we support Flatpak, or Snaps? And in case, would we need a curated store? Keep or remove Clicks, or would we prefer to use e.g. .deb+overlayroot as a fallback? … Universal packaging formats will probably be the central topic next year, and both Snap and Flatpak are not that ready yet (although they're usable) [13:01] @sverzegnassi, Btw snaps look likely to use xdg-desktop-portal (https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/pull/136) and flatpak can be used for command line utils it just isn't their main focus (https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/issues/1188) [13:02] MassimoPeca was added by: MassimoPeca [13:05] Friends, is anyone going to address my questions? [13:06] @milkor73, Wow. I am glad that I didn't update yet [13:14] @MassimoPeca, Hello Massimo and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :) [13:15] @malditobastardo, More courage MD 😉 [13:17] @SilentSt0rm, If what you want is a pocket PC, I would suggest staying very far away from Android devices. [13:25] @DanChapman, oups forgot, thanks for it [13:34] zanetti [13:54] @milkor73, 😹😹😹 [14:06] @developerfect, Good. :) thanks for all your work over there [14:06] @sverzegnassi, Libertine is needed still. It does more than just provide a chroot to install debs into. Even for running x11 apps from snaps, we still need other parts of libertine to connect all of the dots between mir and x11. [14:06] @ahayzen, Yeah, I saw it some months ago, when it was just an early prototype. Cool to see that xdg portals might have a future in Snaps too. … Instead, the CLI tools support in Flatpak seems indeed very partial and far from the common expectation of a “desktop experience”. … But what I really wanted to say is that we should actually define what that “desktop experience” is, because it’s going to change in the following years [14:08] Step 1) Stop using the word "desktop" [14:08] it has no useful meaning [14:09] (please also use the send button in telegram more often, rather than writing long multiline/multi-paragraph posts all together) [14:10] Well others have asked for longer posts from people in the past rather than bullet posts [14:10] The idea should be this: If you present and idea (IE a numbered list) in here you should press send after each one so that each idea can be replied to [14:11] well others are wrong. telegram isn't a web forum, replying to very long posts with multiple separate pieces of commentary is very difficult in telegram, let alone if you're on irc (or maybe matrix, no idea how riot/etc deal with it) [14:12] So if you are talking about your coffee and don't expect a reply, then keep it as one long post but if there are multiple ideas then separate them to allow for reply feature [14:14] This is not the medium for in depth discussions. Instead of a long post on telegram, put it on a blog/forum and post a summary and link. [14:14] @dohbee, This is very interesting topic.... to me desktop means: Non phone size, non tablet, fairly big, but is combined with laptop since their power and hardware are same or similar [14:15] Thats a solid idea [14:15] @wayneoutthere, What most people mean is "x86 general purpose PC" which is still a bit wrong. sometimes people also mean "background icons/wallpaper" [14:15] But very hard to execute. Thats why I made some Labs [14:15] @dohbee, Wasn’t Ubuntu-app-launch supposed to handle snap’d Xmir apps? Just wondering... [14:15] it has no solid meaning as in "this is desktop and nothing else is" [14:16] @sverzegnassi, it does, with the help of libertine's tools, yes [14:16] or well, sort of does, that work was never finished [14:17] @wayneoutthere, well, it's an easy idea to execute. it's hard to get others to follo suit. i've been "executing" it for over a decade :) [14:18] and then there's the whole "PC == Windows" trope [14:18] @dohbee, Yeah, that’s what I mean. My question was indeed “what do we expect from launching desktop apps on a phone”, since I’m not sure that running a regular LibreOffice instance is what I would really need on a phone. [14:19] @sverzegnassi, Well in "phone mode" probably not what you want, but in "i plugged into a 23in monitor with kb/mouse mode" maybe it is [14:20] but "legacy" is a far better term for things like current libreoffice i think [14:20] they are not scalable/responsive apps [14:20] they follow legacy design principles and methodologies [14:22] @DanChapman yesterday I deleted the `.cache` folder on my phone because it was getting too big, but now I opened Dekko 2 and it asks me for configuring an account because there are no account set up... does Dekko 2 stores its config in the cache folder? [14:22] Well, there are "legacy" applications from "phone" as well as "desktop". [14:23] there are no "desktop" applications [14:23] because "desktop" is a meaningless word [14:23] @wayneoutthere, desktop means on the top of your desk. monitor, keyboards. mouse. But when i see posts here like "desktop apps" it is totally ambiguous. … Anyways, UT is a phone with Mir and all that stuff but ALSO it is an aem based Ubuntu computer. It already is posaible to run on it anything that is compiled forbarm linux (off course dependencies must be met). There are more ways than one to run non native (mir) apps: … 1. Xmir is one w [14:23] or without libertine/containers). … 2.ssh wirh x forwarding (wireless or over usb) is another amazing and practical way. but UT was not exploring it and now it still isn't but things get easier. Phablet-shell however does not include x forwarding even though it is more useful with. … 3. hou can start anything in xvfb inluding an entire graphical session with your favorite wm. Be it xfce, lxde, Mate or sth else. Then hou can access ir via vnc or things li [14:23] like that. … 4. if get any qt5 vnc client to work natively on mor you get a whole new frontier and alternative to xmir … there are other ways as well. … The possibilities are really endless you juat need to do one thing to see this: UT phone/tablet is a normal Ubuntu computer. Yes it has mir and all that, but still. [14:24] (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/3jhPPuOB/file_2897 [14:25] @stuartlangridge, Hi, got this in the logs: DEBUG notify: caxton.sil_Caxton HnEx81tv8Isk9hO9hfp+Wg== unauthorized [14:25] doh ubports forum gives a 502 [14:25] dont worry its being upgraded right now [14:25] and IMHO the line of arguments about apps being dedicated to smartphone scenario (aspect ratio, touc, screen size, etc) are blown out of proportion. … Legacy apps do not need to be run on the phone's screen. They can run off the phone onto a big screen. And this scenario is crazy practical. [14:27] @KrisJacewicz, what is practical for you is not practical for everyone, nor is it reasonable for most everyone [14:27] @Seumas, Probably better post on the forum. We do not have so many Pro 5 owners here and your questions will get lost [14:27] and please split up posts like that in the future @KrisJacewicz [14:27] Yes, making it seamless instead of "crazy practical" is the "convergence" vision. It will come one way or another. [14:29] @dohbee, wondering, seems like you could be trying to tell that exact thong to yourself. I am happy with everyone deciding on their own. Hou seem to tell us what is good as what is not. Like telling us that those of us who think otherwise about splitting or not splitting messages here are wrong. … Off course I speak of myself. [14:29] https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png [14:30] @dohbee, That’s was the point. I concern on usability, and which are the limits on what we should (or reasonably could) offer. For me it would be legit to have a small selection of legacy apps to choose from, but others may want more by default [14:30] ultimately i don't spwnd my days worrying whether or not anhone else will agree with me or not. Some will, some won't. UT doesn't limit you. You limit yourself. [14:31] @KrisJacewicz, well you build a phone that boots up straight to a terminal and deal with supporting it if anyone actually buys such a device [14:32] @KrisJacewicz, no, i don't care what your choice of breaking your device is. break it all you want. what i care about is the default user experience and making things easy AND secure by default, for everyone [14:33] @sverzegnassi, subjectively, i am quite happy with the "defaults". Only thing I notice is that the defaults don't faciliate some aspects. But even then the current default system is quite good as far as im concerned. [14:35] that's an odd statement from someone who advocates remounting / as rw, installing debs and compiling things on device, and creating symlink farms to avoid filling up /, etc… [14:35] @dohbee, and i actually see your concern valid and valuable. … Nust that whenever there is a peraon who is interested in goung outside of your perfect scenario I wish they can go past you to see that they can do many things easilly as well. [14:36] i really don't see anything wrong with the UT defaulting to how you see it. I support it. I just don't agree that anything else is discouraged. [14:37] or considered wrong/bad. [14:37] @KrisJacewicz, nobody is "discouraging" you, so please stop taking personal offense whenever people in here are talking about building ubports (the topic of this channel) [14:38] @dohbee, you discourage others every once in a while when you say that certain things ahould not or cannot be done. [14:38] Ilya Zhukov was added by: Ilya Zhukov [14:38] the only thing i am discouraging you from, is telling people who come in here with problems having just flashed there device, to do all the "crazy practical" things you have chosen to do, as some means to try and resolve their problems [14:38] @Ilya Zhukov, велком [14:39] all you do with such suggestions is create confusion and cause even more problems for them [14:39] @dohbee, i take this critique [14:39] @KrisJacewicz, i am pretty sure i very rarely say something "cannot" be done. [14:40] @dohbee, i also help out many of them. you dont know because people reach out to me in PM. and I follow up outside of this main discussion. [14:40] when i say something "should not" be done, it is because i have a whole hell of a lot of experience in the area [14:40] @dohbee, yes rarely you do. [14:40] and if i say something cannot be done, it is almost certainly because it cannot be done [14:41] @dohbee, i guess you have a LOT of experience but that doesnt mean you know better. [14:41] Not always, but generally we defer to those with more experience [14:41] @KrisJacewicz, you should not shoot yourself in the foot, but if you really want to shoot yourself in the foot, feel free [14:41] Otherwise we make the same mistakes multiple times [14:42] if you have a gun, go for it. but i'm not going to be the one handing you the loaded gun to shoot yourself in the foot with [14:42] @vanyasem Спасибо. Срач всегда тут? [14:43] @Ilya Zhukov, welp, not really. but happens from time to time [14:43] @UniversalSuperBox, that sometimes doesnt end up as a smart choice. I recommend you to look up "Authority Bias". For example as explained by Rolf Dobelli. [14:44] @KrisJacewicz, I'm just in time. )) [14:44] hey, could you please stop your rant? [14:44] Not for you. Sorry. [14:44] @dohbee, i dont know what you mean [14:44] @vanyasem, we have a new member here, and we're not making a good first impression [14:45] if you really want to continue, do so in our OT group, this is not going anywhere anyways [14:45] @vanyasem, to be honest it is nut a peraonal rant. Its an exchange of opinions. aka discusaion. [14:46] @KrisJacewicz, Ilya just asked me in Russian if this group is always like that. no one enjoys this discussion. [14:46] stop. [14:47] When answering about "can" or "should" assume that the questioner doesn't want to risk breaking the hardware or basic behaviour. I'm sure a lot of "impossible" things can be done by replacing some or all of the hardware. At the very least provide a cavat before remounting rw or resoldering the parts. [14:48] I don't care about this discussion. [14:48] then don't participate in it? [14:48] discuss something else if you wish [14:48] But it's funny. [14:48] do you have a device running UBports? Ilya [14:49] frankly, "the best way to provide support to users of ubports" seems pretty well on topic for a channel about ubports [14:49] @Michele, That's intended as you can't just go and delete the cache without wiping the mailstore database as well. otherwise it will remain in a broken state. [14:49] @dohbee, you won't give up your opinion. never. [14:49] perhaps there is a better way, do you guys think that it would be a good idea to set up additional group dedicated to all the non standard things about UT? [14:49] @vanyasem, so it's not a worthy discuss. you just assume you are always right [14:49]