 Do we have an Ubuntu fire TV, chrome cast kind of thing ? Something that can just plug in and act as a TV streaming kind of aggregator ? Or a project out there ? Thx
[00:02] <tgBot> <蔡 荣诠> I must chat witch VPN...
 @wayneoutthere, Kodi
 And its wonderful plugins
 The ones that are legal and you can obtain from Kodi. ಠ_ಠ
 But how about hardware? Plug play pendrive possible? I've used kodi pretty good
 @wayneoutthere, Amazon Streaming is not possible in HD. Linux does not support HDCP, so no movies in HD. I hate DRM.
 Same
 @Marcos, Self adaption is a fallacy as Desktop and Mobile are different UX paradigmas. App developers need to foresee a lot more. Auto switching without loosing fidelity on either end is a dream
[00:44] <tgBot> Geo was added by: Geo
 New here :)
 @Geo, Welcome!
 @Seumas, i thought that the internal memory of the phone is much like SD card, meaning, flash based. such memory has limit for number of writes and swap wpuld excercise this limit at a bery high pace leading to decreqsed life span of the storage. Which is why swap is not a desired thing. This is meantality I brought from raspi where OS sits on a SD card. but at least i can replace sd card with a new one on raspi. Not so much the case on MX4.
 @Flohack, What's your thoughts on samsungs interpretation of it
 ?
 With Dex and baking it in as a full desktop standalone next to android in a sense
 @profetik777, I can see the point but I am not sure how the make a transition from on the go to desktop. I see it as more exclusive way of work, you run desktop apps on the phone but only with external screen.
 @dohbee, the way i see it is this: a team of people hathered and weighted pros and cons. They found a solution that thwy recognized as the best fit and that is what they realized in Ubuntu Touch. … Then some other people (that would be me btw) have looked at the thing and got interested in im for a bunch of diffefent reasons from what the makers anticipated as core value preposition. Now who is right and who is wrong? I don't thing neither ar
[01:17] <tgBot> wrong. But I will bring up the fact that the original makers of the original value preposition abandonned it (for the time being, it can still play out any way in the future. off course).  … My experience with Ubuntu on ARM started years ago with single board computers lile raspberry pi. Whichbis why I have no difficulty seeing UT phone as a micro sized PC chassis with an extra touch screen and gsm related hardware. Others will deduct its ability to be serv
[01:17] <tgBot> but I am in fact using my UT in this way daily. And this is a main value preposition coming from it even of it is not what the makers assessed.  … Now i reckon that i am not the only one who is willing to explore this. At the same time I dont have goal of making my point of view the prevalent one. I feel that it belongs well with a niche. After all ultimately it is not crucial for me that it is UT that allows me to do what i'm interested to do. Plasma Mobil
[01:17] <tgBot> if it does the job. Librem 5 is fine if it does the job. Currently UT foes the job best. If tomorrow Librem 5 does it better I would focus on it more. I agree with everyone who brings freedom of choice to the argument. UT lacks plentitude of things compared against android or iOS, but I reckon it as providing much more freedom. Lots of things that you can do on Android cannot be done on UT out of the box. But the things that I am interested in doing happen to
[01:17] <tgBot> on UT. That is where I recognize its value. And it is totally fine that it might not be what UT is being pitched for. It's like at home i drink water from wine glass. Glass maker might feel some kind of way about it but since i paid for the glass i own it and I use it as i see fit. Some of my friends picked it up. Kind of same here.
 please do not reply with a novel
 it just means TL;NR
 I feel like this is just going to end up going in circles again. Both of you think you don't agree on how Ubuntu Touch should be developed but I don't see anything fruitful coming from the discussions.
 I'm glad you found us useful, @KrisJacewicz. And I'm glad you decided to join us given your experience with the platform, @dohbee
 @dohbee, but even you know it is less easy than doing it on UT. Like for the reason of dependencies and possibilities of showing the app on the phone's screen (which is a nice to have option).  … You seem to prefer doing things in containers. But with UT that becomes just an option whereas on Android leans slightly closer toward reauirement territory
 If you want to have a long-running discussion, please take it to forums.ubports.com or list.ubports.com.
 @dohbee, The biggest argument  for Android being Linux is, of course, the fact that the kernel for the Linuxoperating system and the Android operating system are very nearly one and the same. Not completely the same, mind you, but Android'skernel is directly derived from Linux.
 @KrisJacewicz, Stop.
 I agree with Dalton, I love reading you both guys, But Telegam is not the right channel for a proper discussion.
 well it's not a discussion
 Stop.
 We've been over it enough times for one day
 @Flohack, i dont agree with this one. to me the ONLY thing that makes it look like there is a whole another paradigm is small touch screen. Once there os a big screen attached (or wirelessly) and a physical kbd/mouse then there is no longer paradigm problem. x86 or ARM is not a big issue either as Microsoft shown. Also ARM currently gains ability to run x86 code at amost native speed (native to ARM). … The paradigm difference is seen when you
[01:29] <tgBot> insist that a smartphone must be used as sth you hold and interact with via its built-in screen.  … To me you arive somewhere, take it out of your pocket and on your desk plug it into a dock station and the paradigm difference is gone.  … Samsung approached it in yet another way and I personally am super sold by it as well.
 Samsung did it in an easier way than Canonical wanted to and it seems to work and work better. But i have not tried so this is just an opinion based on seeing demos.
 Can we maybe let this one go? I feel like there's a little too much aggression
 Well yes an no, Jan, People want to discuss Convergence, so they need to understand what is our point of view. If like Kris says you focus on external display, you dont have any problems. Then the phone is a portable computer like a desktop nothing else. But on the go it wont be super useful
 @UniversalSuperBox, Dalton I hope you will not take this as me being rude because it is not to offend you but I do feel some kind of way about you coming in suddenly and stopping me. it's like im not allowed to say certain things here. Why others are not being "stopped". I noticed it is me being given the final and ultimate "stop" by you and i don't feel it is right.
 @neothethird, is it possible that agression is exagerrated? that there is none here?  … For example me and Rodney have an exchange of arguments but I am not so sure that we are hostile to each other. Well I am not being hostile.  … Perhaps some of you guys are being too sensitive about it. Because i see plenty of good discussion where you perhaps see an agression.
 This is a very large topic that requires a lot of discussion. I'd prefer it to be in the forum so that you can get the views of everyone, not just those who happen to be in this channel with Telegram open right now.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 Telegram moves quickly and messages take up a lot of space.
 @UniversalSuperBox, i still insist that you understand how you sort of decided that the discussion has to stop at just what I hv to say.
 @malditobastardo, Make this a debate for the podcast and turned into some content
 telegram is only good for gifs
 I need to pull out of it I have the community vote LOL
 And make a poll out of it lol
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/71E3I0D0/file_2906
 Have you guys heard about the google amazon fiasco, Ive only just heard about it, googles blocking youtube from amazon products
 @KrisJacewicz, sorry, maybe i read the conversation a little wrong...
 and btw, it seems to some here that i am just trying to single out Rodney in every discussion. But that is not true. I argue with Rodney more than with anyone else here because we both have opposite arguments. When we argue it is being noticed. Most of time o follow his postings passionately because there is great info in it. Just that this is less obvious.
 I see you and Rodney argue with a few people, so Ive never seen it as either of you picking on singular people
 Because of the great info is that I agree with dalton to move these discussiones/debates in a forum, so everyone will have the chance to follow up and integrate it
 if we all met in a bar perhaps i would hv best timw socializing over beer woth Rodney. IDK. But I think that neither of us is at war.
 Its nothing personal from my side just that lengthy Telegram discussions with hefty arguments take up much space. Also no one will be able to follow this because messages are only loosely connected. The forum or a mailing list would be a good spot to into deep.
 We're on it, Flo
 We love @Flohack
[02:48] <tgBot> Johnny W. Lam was added by: Johnny W. Lam
[02:48] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Whats going on everyone?
 There's a panic!
 at the disco
[02:49] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Sat night! :P
[02:49] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Were not in Bensonhurst, NY
[02:51] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Porting U-Touch to my old Asus Vivo Tab Note 8, will update when done
[02:51] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> with Wacom support should be nice
[02:55] <tgBot> Sunshine was added by: Sunshine
[02:57] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Q00LzogL/file_2908.jpg
 Hello everyone.😀
[02:58] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> Sunshine, I need some sun shine right now, working in the dark is not cool
[02:58] <tgBot> 纪 老猴子 was added by: 纪 老猴子
 haha，Nice to meet you.Johnny W.
[03:23] <tgBot> <Johnny W. Lam> likewise
 Hello 纪 老猴子and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @纪 老猴子, I guess they seemed your Chinese name like Chinese seem English
 😂😂
 Fwd from bhdouglass: Hey guys! New release of clickable, fixes some of the issues people have been reporting with the lxd containers (by switching to docker!). Details here: http://blog.bhdouglass.com/clickable/ubuntu-touch/2017/12/17/clickable-2-0-0.html … And new docs up here: http://clickable.bhdouglass.com/en/latest/
 @geotechland, Hello Grotechland and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Johnny W. Lam, Hello Johny and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Sunshine, Hello Sunshine and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @纪 老猴子, Hello and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
[08:23] <tgBot> <shen feng> OTA3 community to be fully prepared to speed up the process of 16.04 it?
 Yes
[08:29] <tgBot> <shen feng> Cool
[08:29] <tgBot> <shen feng> 😆
 Honestly this is ted-annoying... Welcome messages at time becomes clearly like spam..
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/kQlQBgey/file_2911.jpg
 It fills complete screen on my mobile phone
 Nothing against welcoming new members
 But method is wrong
 I think this is a method to welcome new users and also a good method to say all other members how live is UT community.
 I don't agree, sorry
 Honestly, you should update channel description and let telegram do it's job here
 And then what you think all must do?
 @bhushanshah, the welcome team could probably greet more than one person per message
 @neothethird, Yes
 @bhushanshah, It is very rare that we have three joining at once
 @Stereofont, I could scroll back and show you more examples
 @Stereofont, but we we do, we could probably do "welcome @one @two @three"
[09:06] <tgBot> bhushanshah was added by: bhushanshah
 Hmm damn
 I wanted to check one thing
 Not leaving group 😜
 haha
 @neothethird, We don't have the magic of foresight 😁 If we waited around for 30 minutes we could do that but the joiner may have gone by then?
 @bhushanshah, Then we should celebrate that we are growing so fast. Yes, a minor inconvenience but look at it from the perspective of someone new. I hate the safety announcements on planes but there are always a few people who never flew before
 @Stereofont, in the example bhushan gave, three messages were send out in a row, sending one would not have made a difference. If you're online while someone is joining, sure, greet them instantly. It will probably even createa conversation. But if not, and you see multiple new members at once, do one combined message
 @neothethird, As Milan did. Agree
 @Stereofont, I'm not against welcoming people, but would prefer a another creative way because this is not scaling and also useless for people joining via another medium such as IRC/Matrix
 You are not welcoming them are you?
 @bhushanshah, What do you propose?
 I wanted to propose something I thought would be possible but as you saw my join/leave.. it is not
 But I'll think of something
 ok
 (Photo, 1080x467) https://irc.ubports.com/JsvCj0c0/file_2913.jpg
 But for starters update this topic
 This message is shown to users when they try to join through web.telegram
 Hello Joe. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 This?
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/s0y4hQr7/file_2915.jpg
 meizu  pro5，What time is the next update.？
 I'm looking forward to it.
 16.04
 21 December for OTA3. Early 2018 for 16.04
 Stable.？😀
 Good Morning everyone! I'm having issues with my WiFi Laptop, at the start up I have to switch off and then switch on the WiFi, otherwise I dont have internet connection. … A fast search at Google's provide me this couple of commands … `rfkill block wifi` to switch off … `rfkill unblock wifi` to switch on
 I tried to place those commands in Start Up app on ubuntu
 but is too fast and the wifi doesnt boot properly
 is there any command to delay the second command?
 i tried using `rfkill block wifi && rfkill unblock wifi` but is too fast
 I need something like `rfkill block wifi && (ten seconds later) rfkill unblock wifi`
 Make a .sh file, put "sleep 10s" in it with the other commands and rut that file from startup. This seems to be an Ubuntu question instead of an Ubuntu Touch one though. This channel isn't meant for desktop Ubuntu support
 Oh I guess you may not need a new file. But yeah, "sleep"
 @Sunshine, Yes. OTA3 is for stable channel on UT 15.04. We will have to wait a while before 16.04 works well enough to use
 @Lorxu, Yeah! Thank you! I know that this is not a Ubuntu Desktop support but I couldnt manage to find a proper way to seach it on Google, I always get tutorials to delay the Shutdown 😞 … Thank you very much for your help 👍🏻😚
 I make'd a webapp with webappcreator. How can i reload this webapp in webabcreator?
 I'm looking forward to the official version of 16.04 because it's much faster than 15.04.
 @Sunshine, I can become much faster than 15.04 but don't expect to see a lot of improvements immediately. Getting it running is the top priority. Optimising it will start after that
 @蔡 荣诠, Also try Matrix/uMatriks/riot.im
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/gOtEabtZ/file_2917.jpg
 By to all again
 @Sunshine, You can try 16.04 but it is experimental. A lot doesn't work
 On the ubports matrix room a user asked me to forward this idea
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/772/workshops-at-locations/4
 IMO this seems to be a very good idea to meet. And he is offering space...
 Sounds like it could be an interesting element of a wider 'meet'. Could be an independent UBports meet rather than a fringe to something else
 @bhushanshah, Sorry, but normally it is not this way. There is a team and we have also to sleep. And everybody has the right to receive his welcome as it includes very important info. We have feedback that this was exactly what the new members were missing. We asked them. I kindly ask you to try to understand. Thx
 yes, but 16.04 did not do any optimization, but is faster than 15.04, what is the main reason?
 Probably improvements in Qt 5.9
 @Sunshine, The architecture is improved, so yes there will be immediate benefits. What I meant is that the larger benefits will come from the subsequent improvements
 A new house is exciting. 16.04 is not that but it is a super new (but boring) foundation on which the exciting new house will be built. Don't build yourselves up to be amazed. Initially, you won't be
 @bhushanshah, There are two aspects of welcoming. First orientation. Could be done by updating the channel description. Second personal welcome note. This has to be done personally. And it is a gratitude of respect to do so.
 It is a kind of unique ubports culture to welcome everybody personally an I like it very much
 @bastos777, Agree. But we can do it more minimally
 Hello Joe. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 @bastos777, For record: I'm not telling you to not welcome, just that current method doesn't scale
 @Stereofont, Yes. Why not. I would attend. Best is to follow up directly in the forum.
 It's limitation of telegram platform.. that you can't send kind of channel notice
 @bhushanshah, Yes. It would be good if only the joiner saw the welcome message
 Except that everyone seeing that we welcome creates a good community feeling I think…
 @Stereofont, +1
 @Stereofont, hehe, I will continue to use 16.04, a great system. Thank you for all your work.
 @Sunshine, is it usable for a daily driver?
 @Sunshine, Please use but also provide feedback to help the developers
 @Rawcode, NO!
 @Stereofont, lol
 @Waldbursche, Do you mean, to edit it after creating a webapp? It's not possible yet
 @Stereofont, ok, I also hope that 16.04 will be improved as soon as possible.
 @Rawcode, At least its phone function is normal.
 @Sunshine, Very cool. As long as people understand that it could break apart at any moment, it is fine to play
 @cibersheep, Okay. This was, what i mean
 @Waldbursche, It's in the roadmap
 Thank you
 @bhushanshah, with all your complaining......
 We will try to welcome more than one at once, but if these annoy you so much, then you have to make a choice: a community with welcoming or without in Telegram because this is the best we can do with all the technology limitations.  If you all want to abandon it, we can't stop you from that choice but I like to be welcomed and a bit  of 'welcome spam' to scroll by seems like a small price to pay considering all the other 'spam' we see in here 
[12:40] <tgBot> regular conversation.  But it's a community so feel freel to give your opinion
 @Stereofont, +1
 Here is a new topic for the community to throw around for 10 minutes.  In my opinion, it seems most productive to complain about an aspect about a community *privately* first instead of in front of 1000 people.  Imagine walking into a cocktail party with 1000 people and saying 'who made these crappy appetizers???" on the microphone.  It may possibly offend the cook, staff, or even someone in the party.  A quiet side message goes a long way
 You're going to be welcomed, and like it, damnit.
 @wayneoutthere that's not how open communities work
 @wayneoutthere, and this applies to anything like... say Telegram app, Openstore, whatever.  if possible
 @bhushanshah, maybe we can improve on the 'standard' then?
 It may not always be possible, but it often is
 My critticism was not "Who made these crappy appetizers"
 I had totally constructive criticism
 I pointed you why this is issue
 Yeah but we've covered this
 no you haven't
 so hit me us on the side and maybe there is more time that can be put into a solution
 Why do they keep shoveling these tasty appetizers in our faces?
 actually I no longer care about the appetizers but I am concerned about how you think open communities shoud work.
 This is highly interesting to me as a kind of foundational discussion
 Take it to a PM?
 Ok no
 we're going to take it to lab because I thiink others will care
 anynoe who wants a quick discussion on this, come to this lab: https://t.me/joinchat/Baj4lhGOmNABsfHPyYFGVQ
 or you can poll these 1k ppl here about some of the questions.
 I'm in the lab @bhushanshah
 @wayneoutthere, i was using sarcasm to make a point. i don't think you should be creating an ephemeral channel to discuss this in where nobody will be able to go see the history later when everyone leaves the chat and telegram deletes it
 i think splitting discussions out into new channels is a horrible idea, especially on telegram
 for one, you immediately exclude any IRC or Matrix users by doing so
 @KrisJacewicz and others. So what else do we think about the implementation of SWAP on UT? A necessary evil? Or avoidable? Some Ubuntu installations on other platforms specifically avoid SWAP by having lots of RAM and good memory management, to help SSD lifetime for example. Should we have the option to do this on UT? Especially on pimped out superphones with tons of RAM e.g. my turbo plus.
 @dohbee, Splitting out detailed discussion of installs to the Welcome Room works well because those are details only relevant to the participants and they take up a lot of space. Otherwise, if there are undertones of hostility, best to take it offline for a while
 Also, can other Pro 5 users, if they're willing to use Libertine, please load Gnome System Monitor for me and check the size of their SWAP? I'll say again that my mere 32MB seems bizarrely small, I'd have been happy for it to take say 1GB from the copious 64GB storage if that's a more agreeable amount. But I don't think there's any easy way to modify SWAP size.
 @Stereofont, i don't mean helping individuals with specific problems. that's fine if it's better for them to PM. that's completely separate from what Wayne is suggesting with all the "make a lab" comments in response to discussions though
 @Seumas, Swap doesn't belong on flash storage
 @Seumas, my knowledge of this topic is not at a professional level. I know that on raspi with only 1GB RAM the swap is avoided and discouraged. But I dont pretend to understand difference between sd cards and phones internal flash memory. The reason i avoid swap on UT is precaution.
 @dohbee, huh?
 @dohbee, why?
 flash has much more limited write cycles
 i see, makes sense. thank you
 the only reason to have it on a laptop with flash storage is to support hibernate (suspend to disk), but at the same time it's fast enough to not need sus2disk anyway
 i also keep swap on my laptop for that purpose
 Kris, you say you avoid it. How can we turn SWAP off on UT then?
 @Seumas, `man swapoff`
 Ah. Of course.
 but then that space just does nothing. it's extra N MB you can't use
 Well again that 32MB is a trifling fraction of 64GB so in my case, a worth sacrifice ;)
 But there's really no downside, only benefits to doing that, right?
 i don't think you can delete the partition and resize. partitions are weird on phones, hence the mtk tool stuff to switch between android/ubuntu on those devices
 though pro5 is samsung instead of mtk chip, i think
 Happy to have it just doing nothing. It's a drop in the ocean for this phone.
 @Seumas, well it shouldn't matter either way really. with 4 GB you should never hit swap. if you do, something broke
 so i wouldn't really bother with it
 Little bit different for my M10 with only 16GB storage (and bigger SWAP partition) , but I'll still probably turn it off on the safe side.
 @dohbee, #DontDoItAtHome #Unofficial … you can format it and mount under your rootfs or userspace if it is impoetant amount to you. … Orherwise ypu can keep it in case because swap can be turned on and off as you wish.
 I was multitasking hard last night, jumping between lots of different programs and browsing the net. So it went to 95-100% usage.
 @Seumas, i'd just leave it alone there too, for now anyway. remember, the ubuntu userspace is still only 32-bit even on the 64-bit devices (M10 and Pro5)
 @Seumas, for the swap?
 that doesn't seem right
 Yup.
 @Seumas, also I want to let you know that cureently I do not avoid swap by not having it but imstead by changing my swappiness value to highly discourage swap unless ot seems really important to use it.
 And IIRC  the monitor read similarly high levels for moderate (because RAM is smaller, it has to be moderate compared to the Pro 5) multitasking on the M10.
 Good point Kris, that's what I did with my SSD based Xenial install actually.
 I'm in r/c version, what can I sync nextcloud?
 Will state again I'm *not* gonna try to modify the SWAP partition to regular storage on any of my devices. I'm not experienced enough to do that and I don't want to risk bricks. Let's stress to everyone, DON'T TRY IT! Instead I'm going to limit swapiness to the minimum. Best solution.
 Do Android and iPhone use SWAP?
 in my case, i dont even know if thatnis the best solution but that is what i settled with. … If i understood swap and flash memory more maybe i would choose to turn it off completely instead. On desktops/laptops with lot of RAM it is often seen that ppl dont use swap at all unless for hibernation. … I just figured that since i dont know when a bit of swap can really help i might just limit swappiness and hope for the best in terms of write 
[13:38] <tgBot> flash memory.
 Amen.
 yeah, i think it's time to not use swap any more when i build a new system. now i have swap that will basically never be used anyway
 i certainly won't need it with 64G of RAM
 Sounds like a home supercomputer :)
 well i have 32G now. no point upgrading if i don't upgrade :)
 @dohbee, why? You have the link. click it if you care ;)
 great chat going on and all are welcome
 @wayneoutthere, read the rest of my statements :)
 I did read your comments just fine.  If anyone wants to follow our long discussion about welcoming people to this group, they can jump in the lab.  for those who aren't interested, they can enjoy the silence
 same goes for heated discussions between two people.  sometimes it's a group othertimes it's better off the side
 I vaguely remember that Ubuntu latest version contains swap as files!
 @wayneoutthere, i thought you were discussing "what is the meaning of open community" ?
 oh, yeah we took that to the labe
 my point was it's hardly an open community if small groups are always going off to discuss things separately
 but meh
 too bad you weren't there.  it was a good chat ;)
 @wayneoutthere, thanks for proving my point ;)
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/2w8TqJA3/file_2918.mp4
 I'm there for you Rodney
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/l6FaG7mY/file_2920.jpg
 There's a bug that's been searching for text messages that hasn't been resolved.
 yes, that bug was filed. it affects me too.  I can't remmeber where link is
 apparently the bug is fixed
 ha
 but it's not ... made it into the phone.  that was last report to me when I reported this
 oh,What time is report.
 So there's nothing about swappiness in sysctly.conf, and vm.swappiness = 0 gives "command not found".
 @Sunshine, somewhere in github....   i posted this about 1 week ago and someone replied 'this is already reported and fixed' but i never saw github link... maybe we should confirm since it's still not fixed
 Somebody get the nextcloud account sync?
 @wayneoutthere, yes, it's still not fixed, It's a long time.
 @DanChapman, oh ok, thanks. so is there any way to delete cache without breaking the mailstore database?
 @wayneoutthere, Now, My system is ubports 15.04（r58）
 @Sunshine, whoever can find the bug report send it here and we can all 'upvote it' ;)
 @Seumas, you made a typo in file name yes? … it works on my nexus 5
 if u dont see your swappiness after reboot add "sysctl -p" to your /etc/rc.local
 I typoed here in Telegram, but not in the terminal. Nothing about SWAP there.
 @Seumas, i added the swappiness it was also missing on the fresh installation and 60 is default value
 tomorrow I will add swappiness function to ATU and update so there ia GUI for doing that.
 You added it to systctl.conf? OK will try that. My default value on the M10 is 100 :/
 @Seumas, yess i added it at rhe wnd of the file and then: … $ sudo sysctl -p  … and i can see new swappinness applied by: … $ cat /proc/vm/swappinness
 @Michele, Not currently. But I do have a plugin I can ship in the next update that prunes the cache to only store messages within a defined period. It doesn't currently have a settings UI though so one will need adding otherwise it would have to be setup in config file.
 @DanChapman, wow, thanks. I'll wait for it and I'll probably ask for help to set it up
 i have got a N5 that was running 15.04/devel, which is now bootlooping. Anyone have tips how to resolve?
 @Michele, 👍 I should be finished soon sorting out the mailstore queries blocking the UI thread. I'll whip up a quick settings UI for it once i'm done. 😊
 great!
 @wayneoutthere, https://github.com/ubports/messaging-app/issues/2
 it seems to be low in power because it wont boot at all without a charger. but when I attach one it begins to boot, shows the google logo, dies and loops that
 @matv1, Stuck power button?
 @Crash_Burn, doesnt feel like it no
 This is a common problem for the N5, what device is it?
 it is an N5
 Wack it on the table... right above the power button.  It is stuck internally.
 As if you were trying to knock the button back out.
 but not so hard as to break the screen ;P
 haha why not :)
 lets try
 I've actaully removed the button , and used a piece of metal to cross the terminals before
 since then... I've orderd a microscope for phone repairs!! lol
 Grr in new forums, the hamburger menu is on left side
 @bhushanshah, You're not helping me advocate for use of the forums. ._.
 @Crash_Burn you may be right as i did change out a sim and left the slot open. maybe that caused somethig
 @UniversalSuperBox, It messed really badly with my muscle mem
 although your telegram doesnt inspire confidence :D
 @matv1, That shouldn't affect a stuck button though.  The boot looping is typically caused by power button be stuck down.
 Will Atwood a statue will be erected in your honor down in the Netherlands
 Im alive again
 thanks very much!
 (Sticker, 362x512) https://irc.ubports.com/9zUeG7bB/file_2921
 @Crash_Burn ^^
 hehehe... cool.  Thanks and enjoy.
[16:43] <tgBot> <Ion S> guys, what do you think about crypto currencies?
 @Ion S, I think they're fascinating technologies, and definitely have their places, but I also think most of it is hot air.
[16:45] <tgBot> <Ion S> @Schyken, ) I tink it's all about censorship resistance
 @Schyken, agree. current condition reminds me of the dot com burst
 i think a few should exist and may the best one win
 Aye. I want to be optimistic, of course... But wow, it's a mess.
 yeah.  one will win but I'm not sure it's BTC becasue from smart people I've talked to it's not the 'best of the best' for a few tecnical reasons
[17:09] <tgBot> <Ion S> @wayneoutthere, but it is the most secure coin
 @matv1, Could be the famous N5 power button problem?
 @Stereofont, heheh.. keep scrolling ;)
 @Crash_Burn, 😂😂😂
 OK Kris that worked. I've set swappiness to 1 on all three UT devices. Thanks for the tips!
 Hello, do you plan to add more apps from Ubuntu Store? Since its deletion, it will be complicated to find some app (uFTP) for example is not available in OpenStore, it's unfortunate ...
 @Seumas, is swapiness a real word?I thoguht you guys were being cute
 or WifiTransfer, which is up to date on Ubuntu Store and not on OpenStore
 Yes, it's how likely the Linux kernel will move data into swap from RAM.
 hahaha AWESOME word of the day
 Hey, baby. how's your swapiness today?
 Would you prefer SwapFactor? :*
 No.
 Swapiness is awesome
 Haha
 by far coolest word this week
 ....techrish
 @Seumas, sounds like a game show for key parties
 @Ion S, bitcoin and things like it are just kind of pure awful. monero seems fairly interesting, as you don't need a warehouse full of ASICs to play with it
 In the next future computers will be much more fast and the value of today bitcoins would decrease a lot.
 @Sconio, Dear Sconio, I have asked for you at OpenStore and at the moment the unswear is NO, the main reason this apps and many others are not maintained and there is not enough resources to keep all this apps for the future in good conditions. The only way is try to ask the developer to move them to OpenStore or if it is possible anybody else with skills could do so. Right now you can still download them from stable channel as there is still
[19:11] <tgBot> UbuntuStore available or ask someone here if he can create from his installed app a clickable and send it to you.
 https://askubuntu.com/questions/784372/how-can-i-make-a-click-file-from-an-installed-app/784374#784374
 Thanks Cesar
 if they aren't pure qml/html5/js or webapps, then they will probably need re-compiled too.
 Yes.
 Published an updated version of WifiTransfer to the Open Store, to fix a version numbering problem, hopefully. If anyone uses it, try updating and let me know if it causes a problem.
 @stuartlangridge, super thx!
 does the search in the openstore app not work? :(
 something seems weirdly broken about it.
 (sends link from desktop to phnoe, which works :))
 🐌🔜
 (Photo, 760x132) https://irc.ubports.com/9jcs0dcv/file_2923.jpg
 what does that 1K mean?
 Unread messages
 ha. Have fun with that then :)
 for the channel
 not for stuart
 :P
 @stuartlangridge, We got some issues with Openstore after we removed the Canonical store icon from the scope. Are you on rc or devel?
 devel
 'cos I needed to test push notifications for Caxton :)
 Ok then it might be because of that. Dont ask me details but Openstore team is informed and we are working on it. Also you cannot updates Apps from Openstore ATM
 indeed you cannot. I noticed that one :)
 Ah ok I see
 not a problem; I was just reporting it in case nobody knew. If someone's on top of it then no problem.
 We are but its only 4 days left for OTA 3 so its pressing ;)
 I dont want to revert this change as we will face a closed Canonical store probably on Jan 1st
 But wo knows
 yeah, that's why I've made sure all the proper apps I wrote are in the open store
 BTW Rumors have it that I will update Telegram now ^^
[20:33] <mardy> stuartlangridge: if you have a recent devel image, can you check whether you can update apps from the System Settings?
 @YougoChats, Don't read every message!
 @UniversalSuperBox, Don't tell me how to live my life!
 LOL
 @mardy, it didn't seem to be working; I got an indeterminate progress bar forever. (Restarting the phone made it go away. The × icon next to said progress bar did not.)
[20:38] <tgBot> aki237 was added by: aki237
 Revision 58 on Faenza. Just updated Telegram okay
 @aki237, Hello Akilan. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 Hello @aki237 and welcome! I'm part of the UBports welcoming team. … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 Guys I'm trying to port ubports to Zuk Z1 once again. I'm stuck at this part : … ```device/zuk/ham/BoardConfig.mk:194: device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk: No such file or directory … make: *** No rule to make target 'device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk'.  Stop. … Device ham not found. Attempting to retrieve device repository from CyanogenMod Github (http://github.com/CyanogenMod). … Found repository: android_device_zuk_ham … Traceback (most rece
[20:42] <tgBot> File "build/tools/roomservice.py", line 251, in <module> …     default_revision = get_default_revision() …   File "build/tools/roomservice.py", line 115, in get_default_revision …     return r.replace('refs/heads/', '').replace('refs/tags/', '') … AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'replace' … device/zuk/ham/BoardConfig.mk:194: device/qcom/sepolicy/sepolicy.mk: No such file or directory … make: *** No rule to make target 'device/qc
[20:42] <tgBot> Stop. … ** Don't have a product spec for: 'cm_ham' … ** Do you have the right repo manifest?```
 Add a sepolicy repo to your manifest
 @UniversalSuperBox Actually I thought ubuntu uses apparmour
 It does, but you need the sepolicy repo available anyway.
 Lol lab…
 ok
 Is Jan 1st a known closure date for Ubuntu Store?
 @Flohack, No, wait! 😆 Search in the client-app returns weird results (or none at all) since we started to use our remote APIs for that (~2 months ago). It's already on Brian's list, but I guess he wants to wait for the other stuff from the staging branch to be landed
 @sverzegnassi, Ok ^^
 FP2 users! New Camera module fix (almost 100%) is in Devel!
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/eLiz1HHJ/file_2924
 During the make stage in including all the needed make files : … ```make: *** No rule to make target '/ubport/phablet/out/target/product/ham/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libcryptfs_hw_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/ubport/phablet/out/target/product/ham/obj/EXECUTABLES/vold_intermediates/import_includes'.  Stop. … make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....```
 Libcryptfs doesn't need to be built
 To my knowledge
 so should i try to remove the make include in android.mk
 @stuartlangridge, WifiTransfer updadet in 3 days permanently by every update-check
 @Waldbursche, I’m... afraid I don’t know what that means? Do I need to do something differently?
 @Flohack another report for yoy
 Yeah I am swamped 😆
 @UniversalSuperBox What should I do?
 @DiogoConstantino, awesome!  double welcomed!  @bhushanshah that's some welcome power!
 @stuartlangridge, When i checked the System for updates every time WifiTransfer shows me an update. I run update and the next time, i checked for systemupdates, WifiTransfer shows me an update and i make it again. (sorry for my bad english, i come from a landscape where we must learn russian for years and english in the same time. That confused me 😂😂 )
 @Waldbursche, Ah, I understand. Yes, the Open Store has a problem when updating. The Open Store team know about this problem, and it will be fixed. :)
 I do not believe that this is a problem of WifiTransfer itself. (If it is a problem of WifiTransfer, I will fix the problem!)
 @stuartlangridge, No problem. Today i have no trouble with it since i updadet to r13.
 @stuartlangridge, I think so
 @stuartlangridge, Tested now clock and telegram update, no problems
 BTW Telegram update is out ^^
 @Flohack, explain and then your News  Man will spread
 @Waldbursche, Did you try to update WifiTransfer with System Settings, or the OpenStore app?
 @wayneoutthere, I made a stable release out of the Beta: https://github.com/ubports/telegram-app/releases/tag/v2.5.2
 Yay supergroups works
 Hope so ^^
 @sverzegnassi, Both ways. Same result. Since today it's fine.
 So far so good. Nice job
 I can haz super groupz!!!!
 Thanks @Flohack !!!
 np it was overdue ^^
 @aki237, You were right. Stop what's trying to build it.
 @exar_kun, I updated Telegram beta from the store, now messed up. Part convos from Friday etc
 Typing from M10 :)
 New telegram guys :)
 Thanks @Flohack
 Nice work. Thanks @flohack.
 @Stereofont, If nothing works then plz log out / log in again. Tried a restart?
 👍🏻@flohack
 Thanks @Flohack, sending from ubports telegram ;)
 ^^ cool
 ironically i can't get new telegram.  haha.  i recall there is a way to force Open Store to refresh.  how does that work again?:)
 @stuartlangridge, I updadet now to the new version. Thanks for your work 👍🏻
 oh i see there is an 'upgrade' button. maybe this will work.  :)
 Works. Ñ4
 guys I see an error : … ```system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c: In function ‘find_usb_device.constprop’: … system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:147:63: error: ‘%s’ directive output may be truncated writing up to 255 bytes into a region of size 252 [-Werror=format-truncation=] …      snprintf(info.device_path, sizeof(info.device_path), "usb:%s", sysfs_name); …                                                                ^~ … system/core/f
[21:38] <tgBot> note: ‘snprintf’ output between 5 and 260 bytes into a destination of size 256 …      snprintf(info.device_path, sizeof(info.device_path), "usb:%s", sysfs_name); …      ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ … system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:161:40: error: ‘%s’ directive output may be truncated writing up to 255 bytes into a region of size 59 [-Werror=format-truncation=] …                   "/sys/bus/usb/de
[21:38] <tgBot>                                         ^~ … system/core/fastboot/usb_linux.c:160:9: note: ‘snprintf’ output between 29 and 284 bytes into a destination of size 80 …          snprintf(path, sizeof(path), …          ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ …                   "/sys/bus/usb/devices/%s/serial", sysfs_name); …                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ … cc1: all warnings being treated as errors```
 gcc : 7.2.1
 @Flohack, Restarted and it works fine - except that I have everything but the Supergroup
 @Stereofont, this is weird
 Its just the beta release with 2 more cosmetical commits
 did you have beta before?
 Yes. Just updated a second time. Fully working now 🐸
 Ah well
 Florian! Thanks for the Telegram! Nice work!
 I had same that Openstore reported it a second time
 Strange issue though
 maybe it delivered old version first?
 Great work! Thanks so much
 Yes, somehow it did
 @Waldbursche, Cool. The new version doesn’t do anything new (apart from the nicer icon) but it’s now a higher version than the one in the Canonical store, so upgrades should happen.
 yeah I bumped the version
 @stuartlangridge wanna test notifications on our server? I did not see error messages now, but can you trigger one?
 Thanks @Flohack, now I can finally stop using WebTelegram!
 @Flohack, I have; Caxton now uses the ubports push server, and it works fine (for me, at least)
 @Flohack did  we also to gif support with this update?
 Ok so maybe this was only a test from you ^^
 @DiogoConstantino, No. Reason for that is: Telegram API level, once more. We need to update to a higher Tg API, at the current level we get simply empty messages
 But I will slowly upgrade whenever there is time ^^
 ok
 that would be perfect, but supergroups and channels is already really good :)
 @stuartlangridge, I get a lot of unauthorized messages though
 @Flohack, Hm. When do you get those? When hitting “get a code for an app”?
 Or at some other time?
 Just can tell you that my push server log shows them
 Can you try to register a new client with Caxton
 Ah hang on, this is on the server?
 I did register a new client; I installed Caxton and then added the browser bookmarklet, and I also added a code to uappexplorer.com
 Both of those work fine for me afaict
 hmm
 Now?
 @stuartlangridge, Yeah sitting in front of the server log ^^
 @mariogrip repowerd patch works good!
 Actually it happens when your server sends to /notify
 Will check out brightness behaviour...
 @Flohack, I can’t test right now because I’m afk. But using the bookmarklet worked half an hour ago when I pushed an open AppStore link to my phone
 ok
 Lets see what time will tell
 @Flohack, Is that not where I’m meant to send it?
 Sure!
 I mean of course send it there
 I’m happy to do a live test with you watching the logs at some point when we’re both available :)
 @nfsprodriver, YAY ;D
 It’s possible the Caxton server is doing something wrong
 Yes if he sends for tokens that I dont know maybe
 people using it who are on stable?
 @stuartlangridge, Cool ok
 Sorry.....
 @Matteo, Why people click on all links 😆
 ah telegram
 😔
 you can click this
 lol
 Thanks Guys!
 😁👍 Thanks Florian for stable Telegram BTW! I was already in beta 😜
 🎉🎉
 @Stereofont, Had same problem but closed and reopened Openstore then found an upgrade option on telegram
 Yes I also had beta before
 I noticed I lost all My Yumi logos after upgrade.
 (Photo, 768x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/IRGNQ6UU/file_2926.jpg
 I lied. Might just be this supergroup I lost logo for
 Logos ?
[22:10] <tgBot> Tomista69 was added by: Tomista69
 @wayneoutthere, Close app and restart
 I can finally paste links!!
 Flohack 😻😻
 @wayneoutthere, Its random, cause unknown. :)
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/16jIULAz/file_2928.jpg
 FP2 camera photo
 Welcome @Tomista69! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome first to get up to speed. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them, especially in the Newcomers Room. Have a nice stay! 😊
 @Stereofont, woot woot!
 @Flohack, "Server synchronization: This version tries to detect when server sync is lost (usually by changing from WiFi to network or other way round, or by having Telegram sleep in the background for more than 15 minutes). There is special code inside to re-request data from the server. After waking up Telegram please be patient as it does NOT indicate that there is more data to come. After usually 5-10 seconds it should have updated, though." … T
[23:02] <tgBot> sounds very promissing.  one thousand thanks Florian you are great.
 i have a question about the transition from canonical notifications to ubports server. … If I'm correct, in last devels and rc the switch between servers are done, because of that notifications are still missing (that's what I understood from news chanel). We should upgrade now to rc or devel to help you to debug the new system? or there is nothing we can do?
 😊
 @j2g2rp, No you cant do much as I would have to report each device to Telegram guys to redirect it manually. We are testing with 3 devices though and all looks good
 We shall see on Thu ^^
 Ok then i won't update untill you need people to test it :) thanks for the answer Florian
 (and for all the work)