[15:00] <rbasak> o/
[15:00] <ahasenack> o/
[15:00] <jbicha> 🙋
[15:01] <sil2100> o/
[15:01] <BenC> o/ A bit sick, but here
[15:01] <sil2100> I suppose we have quorum
[15:01] <rbasak> I'd prefer to abstain as ahasenack is on my team.
[15:01] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec 18 15:01:50 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:02] <rbasak> But I'll +1 to get a quorate vote as needed (I'm already +1 as I endorsed him).
[15:02] <sil2100> rbasak: I would say it's not relevant that much, if you have are able to endorse someone as per his experience, I'm fine with counting your vote
[15:02] <sil2100> Bias can appear everywhere
[15:03] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:03] <sil2100> handsome_feng's two action items are done, right?
[15:04] <sil2100> I think it's all done indeed
[15:04] <rbasak> Yes
[15:04] <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[15:04] <sil2100> #subtopic Andreas Hasenack
[15:04] <ahasenack> hello
[15:05] <sil2100> ahasenack: hello o/ Could you please introduce yourself?
[15:05] <ahasenack> sure
[15:05] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasHasenack/UbuntuServerDevApplication <- application
[15:05] <sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Andreas+Hasenack&sponsoree_search=name <- uploads
[15:05] <ahasenack> I started working on Ubuntu when I joined Canonical, many years ago (~2008)
[15:05] <ahasenack> working on landscape as a QA engineer
[15:05] <ahasenack> this year I switched to the ubuntu-server team
[15:06] <ahasenack> and as can be seen in my uploads list, they ramped up
[15:06] <ahasenack> I come from a server background, where I worked mainly with authentication/authorization packages
[15:07] <ahasenack> and sometimes the email stack
[15:07] <ahasenack> I think I can contribute to Ubuntu with that work on ubuntu server
[15:07] <ahasenack> and the server package set seems a good fit
[15:08] <ahasenack> I think that's it for a short summary
[15:08] <sil2100> Ok, thanks - let's move on to questions
[15:10] <sil2100> ahasenack: easy one first - if you have a version number like this 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-10.1ubuntu5.3, what is the first number before the : and what is it used for?
[15:10] <ahasenack> it's an epoch
[15:10] <ahasenack> used to fix mistakes in previous version numbers
[15:10] <ahasenack> the epoch trumps the version comparison and wins
[15:11] <sil2100> Ok
[15:11] <ahasenack> although I've seen some tricks with the word "really" in package versions
[15:12] <ahasenack> so it's used sparingly
[15:12] <ahasenack> because it's really the last resort
[15:16] <jbicha> let's say you uploaded a package to bionic last week and it's still only in bionic-proposed now, how would you find out why?
[15:16] <ahasenack> I go to the excuses page
[15:16] <ahasenack> wouldn't wait a week, though
[15:16] <ahasenack> it could be help because its dep8 tests failed,
[15:17] <ahasenack> or because dep8 tests in dependent packages failed
[15:17] <ahasenack> there could also be a large queue due to some big migration that is triggering a lot of test runs
[15:17] <ahasenack> s/help/held/
[15:17] <ahasenack> then I check the failed tests, if any, see if they are really failures in the package, or flaky tests
[15:17] <ahasenack> I can check the history of that test in any architecture
[15:18] <ahasenack> if I think it's a flaky test, I check if there is a bug about it. If not, I file one
[15:18] <ahasenack> if it's an infrastructure problem, I ping someone to click the retry button for me, and present my evidence
[15:18] <ahasenack> I have such a case with samba, which triggers gvfs2 tests and there is one test in particular that is flaky, I filed a bug about it
[15:19] <ahasenack> and it's on my list to check in more detail and try to fix
[15:19] <jbicha> ahasenack: have you ever seen "unsatisfiable Depends" on excuses for a package that does look like it is present in Ubuntu? do you know what that tends to mean?
[15:19] <ahasenack> I haven't seen that, I would have to look it up
[15:19] <ahasenack> I suppose it means that a new depends was introduced
[15:19] <ahasenack> and that is not available in the archive
[15:20] <ahasenack> if that's the case, it sounds like a silly mistake,
[15:20] <ahasenack> because we are expected to test-build things before uploading
[15:20] <sil2100> ahasenack: somewhat related to jbicha's question - let's say you uploaded a package to bionic, you check the excuses page and see that all tests have passed, no visible errors seen but the package is still marked as 'Not considered'
[15:20] <ahasenack> maybe it could be because the package is in main and has a depends on universe
[15:20] <ahasenack> so a ppa test build wouldn't catch that
[15:20] <sil2100> ahasenack: how would you investigate further what's wrong?
[15:20] <sil2100> Where would you look for clues?
[15:21] <ahasenack> you say tests have passed
[15:21] <ahasenack> so a) it built
[15:21] <ahasenack> b) its own tests passed
[15:21] <jbicha> ahasenack: "unsatisfiable depends" is often because a main package depends on something in universe, good work on figuring that out as a possible reason :)
[15:21] <ahasenack> c) tests in dependent packages passed
[15:21] <ahasenack> sil2100: those 3 assumptions are correct?
[15:22] <ahasenack> sil2100: there is usually a hint somewhere
[15:22] <ahasenack> like it could be blocked due to a release (freeze)
[15:22] <sil2100> ahasenack: yeah, let's say all 3 assumptions are correct and there is no freeze
[15:22] <ahasenack> when we are in that final week
[15:22] <ahasenack> then migrations are manual
[15:22] <ahasenack> ok
[15:23] <ahasenack> I don't know then, barring it having been flagged for manual migration for some reason
[15:23] <ahasenack> or I didn't refresh the excuses page
[15:23] <sil2100> ahasenack: did you have any experience in proposed-migration update_output.txt parsing?
[15:23] <ahasenack> no, but I remember it being mentioned to me now
[15:24] <ahasenack> but I haven't had the need to parse it yet
[15:24] <sil2100> If not, it's a good thing to note and be mindful of when your package is stuck in -proposed and excuses doesn't give any useful info
[15:24] <sil2100> ;)
[15:24] <ahasenack> I would certainly ask around if I saw that situation
[15:24] <jbicha> following up, how do you get a universe package to main?
[15:24] <ahasenack> through a MIR (Main Inclusion Request)
[15:25] <jbicha> have you ever done one of those before?
[15:25] <ahasenack> no, just followed up on the progress of some done by others
[15:25] <jbicha> ok, that's fine
[15:25] <ahasenack> I'm aware (without looking) of some of its requirements
[15:25] <ahasenack> secteam review,
[15:25] <ahasenack> history of cves
[15:25] <ahasenack> it needs to have an owner
[15:25] <ahasenack> dependencies must be in main as well
[15:25] <jbicha> thanks
[15:25] <ahasenack> build-depends are a bit more relaxed
[15:25] <ahasenack> since x I think
[15:28] <sil2100> Thanks
[15:28] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[15:29] <jbicha> not from me :)
[15:30] <rbasak> No questions from em.
[15:30] <rbasak> me
[15:30] <sil2100> rbasak, BenC, micahg: all good?
[15:30] <BenC> Yep
[15:30] <sil2100> Let's start the vote then
[15:31] <sil2100> #vote Grant ahasenack ubuntu-server-dev upload rights
[15:31] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant ahasenack ubuntu-server-dev upload rights
[15:31] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:31] <rbasak> +0 abstaining as he's on my team and I endorsed him, and we appear to be quorate without me.
[15:31] <meetingology> +0 abstaining as he's on my team and I endorsed him, and we appear to be quorate without me. received from rbasak
[15:31] <BenC> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from BenC
[15:31] <sil2100> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[15:31] <jbicha> +1
[15:31] <meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
[15:32] <sil2100> micahg said he might be in and out of the meeting
[15:32] <sil2100> So we might need to wait a moment for his vote
[15:32] <sil2100> (just hope he didn't go 'out' completely!)
[15:33] <BenC> Do we have enough votes if he doesn’t?
[15:33] <rbasak> Not without mine currently.
[15:33] <rbasak> Over my time on the DMB I've come up with my own personal rules on how to remain objective.
[15:34] <rbasak> For people on my team, I've decided to always abstain (rather than +1) if I've endorsed, with the exception that I'll +1 if we don't get quorum.
[15:34] <rbasak> So if micahg is unable to vote, I'll +1.
[15:34] <rbasak> If he does vote, I won't vote regardless of which way micahg votes.
[15:34] <sil2100> Makes sense
[15:35] <sil2100> I guess it might be nice to have such an official policy for votes, since I know I didn't follow anything like this
[15:36] <rbasak> I'm fine with not requiring this upon anyone lse.
[15:36] <rbasak> else
[15:36] <rbasak> Inevitably there will be other exceptional circumstances when any such policy will need to be broken.
[15:37] <rbasak> And I trust everyone so am fine with people deciding this kind of thing for themselves.
[15:40] <sil2100> Let's wait 5 more minutes and then I guess we'd have to assume we don't have quorum without your vote rbasak
[15:40] <rbasak> OK
[15:42]  * jbicha plays a few minutes of background holiday music while we wait
[15:44] <dpb1> ... "girl from impanema" muzak?
[15:44] <cpaelzer> jbicha: you could play chord names through IRC so we have our share
[15:45] <jbicha> cpaelzer: that sounds like too much work. Just imagine Bing Crosby's White Christmas or something :)
[15:45] <rbasak> +1 breaking abstention in order to reach quorum
[15:45] <meetingology> +1 breaking abstention in order to reach quorum received from rbasak
[15:48] <rbasak> sil2100: ^
[15:49] <cyphermox> what?
[15:49] <cyphermox> +1
[15:49] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[15:51] <cyphermox> sil2100:
[15:53] <sil2100> \o/
[15:53] <sil2100> #endvote
[15:53] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant ahasenack ubuntu-server-dev upload rights
[15:53] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:53] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:53] <sil2100> ahasenack: congratulations!
[15:53] <ahasenack> thanks!
[15:54] <slashd> congrats ahasenack
[15:54] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[15:54] <sil2100> Any other business?
[15:55] <sil2100> I guess next meeting next year, so - happy new year o/
[15:55] <ahasenack> happy new year, happy holidays, enjoy the rest
[15:55] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[15:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec 18 15:55:20 2017 UTC.
[15:55] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-18-15.01.moin.txt
[15:55] <sil2100> I'll handle adding all the permissions and sending the announcements
[15:58] <rbasak> Thanks sil2100!