| FruitView | i would like your thoughts about an issue. | 00:52 |
|---|---|---|
| FruitView | its about security/privacy philosophy. | 00:52 |
| FruitView | This is sort of shady, but as far as i understand, there are two approaches for handling malicious behavior, hacking, spying and that sort. | 00:53 |
| TJ- | ... | 00:55 |
| FruitView | One is technical, to put it simply, build systems to be safe. To spend energy on doing that, which takes a lot of effort and theoretically speaking I'm not even sure it can be done. | 00:55 |
| FruitView | The other one, is to do social policing, in which i assume the stated rationale is to instead of trying to prevent what anyway can't be prevented completely, arrange a market for it. Do monopoly, that is. | 00:56 |
| FruitView | It have crossed my mind that apple tried to engineer safe systems, to spend energy on making it hard for intruders, while Microsoft went for the market solution. | 00:58 |
| FruitView | I'm basically wondering about canonical, how they align on this. | 00:58 |
| TJ- | like with most things in life "just enough" is good enough for most people until it breaks, then there's an enquiry, recommendations, new rules/procedures, and we're back to "just enough" until the next time | 00:59 |
| TJ- | most of Canonical's efforts are in Enterprise systems and support, and from what I see, for their home-grown projects, the code quality is poor judging by the rapid stream of basic mistake bug reports I see in things like e.g. MAAS | 01:01 |
| FruitView | And for most users, it's not relevant, since no-one except for the random chance event, is curious on them. | 01:01 |
| FruitView | that may be so, but i think the pivotal point is whether they accept payment for such services, directly or not. | 01:04 |
| FruitView | pardon if i'm being slow or autistic in my reading of your comment. | 01:05 |
| TJ- | Canonical makes its money from Enterprise support and services | 01:08 |
| TJ- | for projects that don't originate at Canonical the quality/safety is controlled mainly by upstream although Ubuntu applies additional distro-wide hardening | 01:11 |
| FruitView | I don't expect there to exist any safe spots, but i would at least like to make it harder rather than easier for my intruders. Beginning to realize the software industry at large is dominated by criminals. | 01:15 |
| TJ- | It is? | 01:16 |
| FruitView | Don't know, suspect it to be so. Or maybe that sort of labeling set off a wrong impression. Who knows what sort of social mechanics produced this. | 01:19 |
| FruitView | you're careful | 01:21 |
| FruitView | is this your job? | 01:22 |
| TJ- | what is 'this' ? | 01:23 |
| TJ- | I hack on FLOSS projects, predominently Debian/Ubuntu packages and the Linux kernel | 01:23 |
| FruitView | i think the concept (don't know what its called) applies wider than the software industry, but guess you know. | 01:28 |
| FruitView | don't think i grasped your first comment well, the just enough comment. | 01:32 |
| FruitView | guess i'll ask the question one more time at some point with more activity. | 01:34 |
| daftykins | i'd prefer not | 01:35 |
| FruitView | how could i guess? | 01:35 |
| FruitView | <TJ-> what is 'this' ? | 01:36 |
| TJ- | "just enough" is the approach where as long as there is nothing obviously wrong no further effort is expended until a bug/vulnerability is discovered, which is then fixed, and then we're back to the "just enough" situation | 01:38 |
| FruitView | i'm not crusading and realize no-one here decided how it should be. | 01:44 |
| FruitView | its an interesting world, some people fix vulnerabilities while others code for having systems more easily accessible (the logical consequence) | 01:47 |
| FruitView | could probably have been formulated better, but anyway. | 01:48 |
| TJ- | those aren't mutally exclusive though; the problems usually come from there being no, or insufficient, design time before throwing code out | 01:48 |
| FruitView | I read you to believing current philosophy is for the better since theoretically safe systems can't be made anyway. But it has to be a secret, since ordinary folks won't understand. Tell you what, system should very well be easily accessible, but please understand that i may be annoyed by the idea that some rich dude practically owning my computer. | 02:02 |
| daftykins | ridiculous ramblings of a madman | 02:04 |
| FruitView | yes, dear readers - observe madness. | 02:05 |
| daftykins | if you're angry at someone rich for what's on your computer, then you're using the wrong software | 02:07 |
| daftykins | you have a choice | 02:07 |
| FruitView | please behave, you're language and mode of expression is unappropriate. | 02:08 |
| pauljw | bot alert!!! | 02:08 |
| daftykins | >:D | 02:09 |
| daftykins | FruitView: *your | 02:09 |
| pauljw | :) | 02:09 |
| TJ- | FruitView: if you want to see an example of your view of purism in action, look at the Replicant project, an effort to create a completely Free Open Source Android for phones. It only works on about 4 ancient devices, it is missing major functionality (like making phone calls). | 02:09 |
| FruitView | you don't want this topic to be associated at all with ubuntu, which is understandable. | 02:18 |
| FruitView | perhaps we should bury it then, talk about something else. | 02:18 |
| FruitView | i'm going to miss unity btw | 02:19 |
| FruitView | cant believe it. | 02:19 |
| daftykins | i'm nothing to do with Canonical or Ubuntu for your comments to be of any concern to me | 02:21 |
| FruitView | its almost like an act of crime to discontinue unity | 02:21 |
| FruitView | what are you then, bitcoiner? | 02:22 |
| XXCoder | someone would miss unity?? | 02:23 |
| daftykins | why would bitcoin have anything to do with Ubuntu o0 | 02:23 |
| FruitView | i would guess many people will miss unity, i hope it will resurface again. | 02:24 |
| daftykins | i heard it already got forked | 02:24 |
| FruitView | to me it was like the best in the world of desktops | 02:25 |
| XXCoder | not to me. not when it takjes 3 clicks to get to programs I usually dont run] | 02:26 |
| daftykins | i don't use desktop at all | 02:26 |
| XXCoder | xfce all the way for me | 02:26 |
| FruitView | don't remember what the software name but i also enjoyed the thing crunchbang did, a simple keypress for menu up wherever you where and all the screen estate available for apps. | 02:29 |
| FruitView | sort of a right click thing with shortcuts to all software, settings etc. | 02:30 |
| FruitView | simple easy quick and without the horizontal bar, which tend to compound to multiple bars | 02:32 |
| FruitView | uneasy for the eyes | 02:32 |
| FruitView | i hope software become politics soon. | 02:37 |
| FruitView | a statement which i intended to link up with screen estate, but the finer point slipped my mind. | 02:39 |
| daftykins | so it can be uninteresting too? | 02:39 |
| daftykins | you're nuts | 02:39 |
| FruitView | think i'll stay around to make sure you don't hurt anyone | 02:44 |
| FruitView | oral arms do bodily harm you know | 02:45 |
| pauljw | i'm telling you, it's not human... | 02:45 |
| FruitView | actually something i contemplate on from time to time, how much do i interact with bots presented as humans? | 02:46 |
| FruitView | anyone here puzzled with battery management? | 02:58 |
| FruitView | i want my battery charging to stop at say eighty percent but from what i read that stuff is to some extent vendor specific | 02:59 |
| FruitView | but i assume it to be some analogous logic between different cases, if you've done one you can do others | 03:00 |
| lotuspsychje | good morning to all | 06:23 |
| lotuspsychje | wb dax | 06:23 |
| alkisg | Good morning everyone :) | 06:25 |
| lotuspsychje | hey alkisg | 06:25 |
| lotuspsychje | hmm 1160 users? | 06:30 |
| Bashing-om | time to sleep here too(2), gotten late - g nite all o/ | 07:28 |
| ducasse | good morning, all | 07:39 |
| lotuspsychje | hey hey ducasse | 07:39 |
| ducasse | hi lotuspsychje - how are you today? | 07:40 |
| lotuspsychje | great here ty ducasse | 07:40 |
| lotuspsychje | what about you had good days ducasse ? | 07:42 |
| ducasse | lotuspsychje: enjoyed a quiet xmas, now ready for new year :) | 07:45 |
| lotuspsychje | ducasse: any plans for new years eve? | 07:45 |
| ducasse | lotuspsychje: nah, staying at home, making sure the fireworks doesn't scare luna | 07:46 |
| lotuspsychje | hehe | 07:46 |
| ducasse | lotuspsychje: how about you, any plans? | 07:50 |
| lotuspsychje | ducasse: yeah we go to our friends many years now | 07:52 |
| lotuspsychje | relaxed dinner and sleepover | 07:53 |
| ducasse | lotuspsychje: sounds fun :) | 08:00 |
| lotuspsychje | dax: you guys changed something to #ubuntu? users climbing up now | 08:27 |
| dax | lotuspsychje: we set -r and cleared out #ubuntu-unregged. autorejoin-on-kick bumped the #ubuntu user count from 1053 to 1112 when we did that | 08:29 |
| lotuspsychje | cool dax, tnx for the tryout! | 08:29 |
| lotuspsychje | sygin new bot to protect us? | 08:30 |
| dax | Sigyn's the network-wide antispam bot. She's been in #ubuntu for a while, but I opped her so that she'll still see spambots if Drone (the channel antispambot) sets +qz $~a during botspam. | 08:30 |
| lotuspsychje | nice | 08:31 |
| lotuspsychje | dax: already feels like more cordy support this morning, tnx to all the ops for us! | 08:32 |
| dax | Current plan is to set +r (either programmatically or manually) when we have bots and set -r once things calm down (on a timescale of hours, not days). We'll see how it goes. | 08:32 |
| dax | s/when we have bots/when we have spambots/ | 08:32 |
| lotuspsychje | great plan! | 08:33 |
| lotuspsychje | i tested the webchat freenode, its also letting me in without reg dax | 08:33 |
| lotuspsychje | i guess spambots cant bypass that captcha right? | 08:33 |
| dax | we don't do anything special for webchat currently. and yeah, spambots generally don't bother using it | 08:34 |
| lotuspsychje | this is great :p | 08:34 |
| dax | unfortunately there's no way of saying "block unregistered users but allow in web gateways" without making things complicated enough that it's even more confusing than just +r | 08:34 |
| lotuspsychje | bbl | 09:14 |
| BluesKaj | Howdy folks | 12:31 |
| lotuspsychje | good afternoon to all | 14:02 |
| pauljw | hey lotuspsychje :) | 14:02 |
| lotuspsychje | hey pauljw | 14:03 |
| lotuspsychje | hey BluesKaj | 14:04 |
| BluesKaj | Hi lotuspsychje, pauljw | 14:05 |
| lotuspsychje | users in #ubuntu climbing again :p | 14:06 |
| pauljw | hi BluesKaj | 14:09 |
| BluesKaj | lotuspsychje, climbing? | 14:10 |
| lotuspsychje | BluesKaj: +R is removed by the ops with a new system | 14:11 |
| pauljw | lotuspsychje, what's the new procedure that replaces +R? i use it everytime i login | 14:13 |
| BluesKaj | well +r is wrong, IMO it prevents newbs who don't know any better from joining and receiving support | 14:14 |
| lotuspsychje | pauljw: <dax> Current plan is to set +r (either programmatically or manually) when we have bots and set -r once things calm down (on a timescale of hours, not days). We'll see how it goes. | 14:14 |
| pauljw | is there a difference in +r and +R? +R was supposed to stop spamming PMs. | 14:16 |
| lotuspsychje | i mean registered nicks yea | 14:16 |
| BluesKaj | the chat ends uip looking like ##linux ...full of know it alls who don't need help and just spewing about their linux chops | 14:17 |
| lotuspsychje | now we should have back a proper usercount soon, and more crowdy support | 14:17 |
| pauljw | i see | 14:17 |
| BluesKaj | I meant Registration which most new users don't do | 14:17 |
| pauljw | :) | 14:19 |
| lotuspsychje | hi fruit | 14:52 |
| pauljw | hey EriC^^ :) | 16:11 |
| EriC^^ | hey pauljw :) | 16:11 |
| lotuspsychje | hey Nokaji | 16:14 |
| Nokaji | Greetings lotuspsychje | 16:15 |
| FruitView | hi lotuspsych | 16:26 |
| FruitView | what is CoC? | 16:45 |
| FruitView | (tried a search but didn't get any much) | 16:45 |
| BluesKaj | code of conduct on irc | 16:46 |
| lotuspsychje | !coc | 16:52 |
| ubot5 | The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is the document that spells out etiquette in the Ubuntu community | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv | 16:52 |
| FruitView | trying to join #ubuntu-offtopic - but what happens? Nothing. Anyone else having prob with it? | 16:55 |
| lotuspsychje | FruitView: are you registered? | 16:57 |
| FruitView | yes | 16:58 |
| lotuspsychje | FruitView: i can join it normally | 16:58 |
| FruitView | okay, guess i'll try again in a while. wait it out. | 16:58 |
| FruitView | Hows culture here, do you people stay on topic or do you do religion, politics and sexual orientation as well? | 17:00 |
| lotuspsychje | !guidelines | FruitView | 17:00 |
| ubot5 | FruitView: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines | 17:00 |
| FruitView | never mind, guess that is what the offtopic chan is for. | 17:00 |
| lotuspsychje | FruitView: in offtopic there are also guidelines | 17:01 |
| lotuspsychje | hey TJ- | 17:13 |
| TJ- | Hiya lotuspsychje :) | 17:19 |
| lotuspsychje | hey Bashing-om | 19:39 |
| Bashing-om | lotus ! .. Fancy you still active .. Holiday off-time ? | 19:40 |
| lotuspsychje | yesss | 19:41 |
| lotuspsychje | until 8 january | 19:41 |
| Bashing-om | lotuspsychje: That gives you time to build 5 more boxes :) | 19:42 |
| lotuspsychje | haha | 19:42 |
| lotuspsychje | Bashing-om: been ordering 1000 flyers today | 19:42 |
| Bashing-om | lotuspsychje: ^^ that do help to build up your user base :) | 19:44 |
| lotuspsychje | it surely will | 19:44 |
| lotuspsychje | hi Hirppa | 19:45 |
| lotuspsychje | nite nite guys | 20:36 |
| dax | pauljw: +R is a usermode that stops unidentified users from PMing you. +r is a channelmode that stops unidentified users from joining a channel | 22:39 |
| dax | pauljw: i.e., they do two different things, and if you're happy with umode +R, #ubuntu changing channel modes doesn't affect that :) | 22:39 |
| pauljw | thanks dax, i put that together during the conversation. :) | 22:40 |
| pauljw | dax, i was initially confused when BluesKaj> used +R instead of +r in his statement, once i saw that one was usermode and one was channelmode it made sense. | 22:43 |
| dax | :) | 22:43 |
| pauljw | biab... dinnertime. | 22:51 |
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