 https://www.enlightenment.org/about-efl.md
 @Stereofont, I hope it will work on the Nexus 4 🤩
 (Photo, 1193x606) https://irc.ubports.com/JkF5Lw0x/file_3310.jpg The day Italy killed Telegram 😆
 Does anyone know, which file I have to edit how to enable ssh on startup in 16.04/devel?
 I switched now to IPv6 connection
 and voila
[00:13] <david89> Hello. Is there a backup of the ubuntu touch store? I need the libertine-scope
[00:19] <Fardale> I found the error, the date was not set correctly
 @david89, The source for it is on launchpad
[00:25] <david89> tgBot: true, however I don't have access to a buid system now
 @dohbee, Rodney, what do I do with these? I'm not much of a developer. Sorry forvthe noob question.
[00:41] <tgBot> JoeRess was added by: JoeRess
 Hi everyone. Just wondering about Anbox. Is it possible to install and use it yet?
[00:42] <david89> I must be missing something. Is there not a prebuilt libertine-scope I can install? Have we lost the ability of running desktop apps?
 @JoeRess, yes, but not via default channel yet.
 @KrisJacewicz, 16.04 dev?
 @JoeRess, I don't know because I still use stable vivid
 OK thanks
 Wait, woah woah woah
 No, the code and installation instructions haven't been released yet.
 @JoeRess, Hello Joe and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @milkor73, Joe Ressington is the host of Late Night Linux and cohost of Linux Action News. ;)
 Guilty as charged
 So... Yell at @mariogrip?
 Thanks Dalton 🙂
 The instructions will be out within the next 10 days.
 Do you know if it will be supported on 15.04 stable?
 It will not, 16.04 only.
 OK thanks
 But not all devices
 Since there are 16.04 builds for all devices now.
 Can anyone give me a quick pointer how to run an app from a terminal? Filemanger is crashing whenever I select the browse network icon and i would like to know why?
 I tried that on a Nexus 5 just now. It was quite buggy
 It is definitely rough right now
 15.04 seems quite stable
 @AlexiPistonrod, There's a Log Viewer app in the OpenStore that should get you all the logs you need
 @JoeRess Oh hey there Joe.. Nice to see you onboard.. Wimpey twist your arm to be part of the group? 😜
 Running apps from the terminal is not straightforward as they run through the lifecycle manager
 @UniversalSuperBox, Really? Will it log by application or just some sort of rolling log?
 @AlexiPistonrod, No it was curiosity about Anbox that brought me here
 @AlexiPistonrod, By app
 Cool one mo I will try it now
 @JoeRess, Thanks. We put a lot of work into it. ;)
 I haven't tested it extensively ;)
 Granted.
 I think if the Anbox stuff works out it could be a major step forward
 OK this is me from the tablet
 Looks like sob is broken
 void DirModel::setPath(const QString&, const QString&, const QString&, bool) DirModel_QML_111(0x78adb0) Ignoring path change request, request already running in "smb://" … tdb(__NULL__): tdb_open_ex: called with name == NULL … tdb(__NULL__): tdb_open_ex: called with name == NULL … SMBCFILE* SmbUtil::openDir(Smb::Context, const QString&) path: "smb://" errno: 2 No such file or directory … QStringList SmbUtil::listContent(QString, bool,
[00:59] <tgBot> const QStringList&) path: "smb://" errno: 2 No such file or directory
 @AlexiPistonrod, There are two file manager apps, one beta and one stable. You can download both of them.
 OK will try
 @JoeRess, That's our hope as well. It's been a hotly debated feature, but people are happy with Anbox on the desktop and it doesn't look like we're getting the market share to have a WhatsApp anytime soon.
 I think if Anbox and microG can be combined to make major Android apps work well, it could pull a lot of users and devs to the platform
 Andbox + fdroid works well for me.. I mean in other contexts.. just as Sailfish + fdroid does. :)
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/UhUONKV0/file_3312.jpg
 @JoeRess, Mhmm. And it doesn't make sense for someone to spend a bunch of time on an app for a proprietary platform just to have it blocked right when it gets good
 See: WhatsApp alternative apps
 I wonder if it would be possible to make the Play Store work. It seems like it would be very difficult but it may be possible.
 Same issue I think.
 SMBCFILE* SmbUtil::openDir(Smb::Context, const QString&) path: "smb://" errno: 2 No such file or directory … QStringList SmbUtil::listContent(QString, bool, QDir::Filters, const QStringList&) path: "smb://" errno: 2 No such file or directory … QObject::startTimer: Timers cannot be started from another thread
 @JoeRess, Not sure yet.
 Hmmm ok beta filemanger does not crash but it does not show any samba shares either..
 But maybe an openGapps package would install on it
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yeah that's what I'm thinking
 Well whatever Lineage do with the micro-gapps will possibly work in anbox
 @AlexiPistonrod, This is not yet available. For more info you may get in touch with people from Openstore group
 @milkor73, You mean network browsing ?
 I think the huge mistake Canonical made was refusing to try and make Android apps work.
 Although it would have been much harder back then
 Really that is kinda sad as Linux by definistion is network aware in any other context..
 @JoeRess, I also don't know how to go about this (just installing it in anbox wouldn't work?) but, everything that you install on your android phone can be copied out and moved to another device. Manually. Or an app could be made for that to send installed apps from one device to another. … Not sure if some apps would explicitely check your identity, but I hae moved some paid apps this way into my gf's android phone which she uses with her ow
[01:06] <tgBot> account under which she has not paid for these apps. And she was abel to use them.
 @JoeRess, I feel like it was bold but made sense based on their goals
 Andorid apps have a store id embedded into them
 Even if their goals were really lofty
 I know this from using Titanium back up..
 it is called an 'advertising id' but really it is just a store tracking number
 @AlexiPistonrod, No, I mean just the app, feel free to join https://open.uappexplorer.com/telegram and ask the developers pls
 @JoeRess, I don't think that that was a mistake. They used to have a strategy and supporting android was not follwoing it. It was not about technical limitation, it was a choice. … But since they abandonned UT, UBports now is free to re-visit the idea and make a different choice.
 @UniversalSuperBox, I understand why they made that choice but it's not what I would have done.
 You don't need it for the apps per se but you have to allow 3rd party apps in that case.
 @JoeRess, We agree... but that's probably obvious.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yeah and I'm really happy to see it.
 :)
 There's one feature that you need though
 You need to slow down the cpu when the battery gets old
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/8vakg0kQ/file_3313
 Oh yeah, how did we miss that?
 @JoeRess, Haha
 Although given the age of most phones with Ubuntu Touch, I think it would just show the bootsplash for eternity
 Dear gentleman my battery and also I have to go sleeping. Best regards.
 BlackBerry added support for ANdroid apps in 10.2.1 and it sealed the end of BB as a stand-alone OS. Once the route got opened, it lead to BB adopting android and building atop of it. … Otherwise you would need to argue that also Apple is making a mistake by not allowing android apps on iOS.
 @JoeRess, Nope
 @KrisJacewicz, The difference with BB was that they had been successful and were losing market share.
 to me it's a no brainer though, that Linux should be versatile enough to allow for any DIY workarounding including emulating android. Effectively even if Canonical haven't abandonned UT< it would still be possible to add anbox to it just like it is possible now. And anyone could have came forward doing that.
 Yes, anyone could make a click with anbox if they wanted
[02:10] <tgBot> jonatitop18 was added by: jonatitop18
 Hi! I don't speak english ☹️
 What's your language?
 Spanish
 I from in Ecuador 🇪🇨
 https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
 Thanks
 ¡De nada!
 Anyone know how to get an app installed that was in the Ubuntu touch store?
 OTA3 removed it
 otas don't remove installed apps
 or you mean it removed the ubuntu store?
 anyway, if it's not in the open store, you'll have to find the source and build it yourself, or find a click package somewhere else and side-load it, or wait for it to get uploaded to the open store
 Or ask the developer to upload it
 I mean, we've been talking about this removal for six months or so.
 if you have a dev environment set up to build click packages, you can `bzr branch lp:webapps-demo && cd webapps-demo && ./build.sh` and it should build click packages of the webapps hosted in that repo
 Ota3 lost me mobile data. I switched channels to get it back and had serious instability issues. Switching back to stable did not fix them. I had to wipe.
 Um... ?
 or you can just do `click build webapp-twitter` inside it to get only that one
 I'm not a developer guys. I just hate iOS and android and like throwing my time and money at 3rd party projects
 I'm confused why the functioning albeit outdated store was removed.
 Why make that decision for users?
 Because it's shutting down in days
 So then it would be unavailable
 because canonical made that decision almost a year ago
 @dohbee, And I'm new to UT.
 they don't want to pay for infrastructure to host a project they don't own any more
 @dohbee, That makes sense
 so anyone that uploaded a package to the old store, who wants to have it still available for users on ubports, needs to move it to the new store
 UBports didn't make that decision, Canonical did. We just removed it from our images for the impending shutdown.
 To be clear
 unfortunately, some of those packages were owned by canonical too, which means someone will have to take up ownership of those packages, and maintain them in the new store
 or someone will have to fix other parts of the system to not depend on certain packages from the old store, in some cases
 @UniversalSuperBox, I totally get it. Thanks.
 Am I crazy or does the keyboard not vibrate on this thing?
 @UniversalSuperBox, who did the change to remove it from the images, btw?
 Well, I can point you to the PR... one moment
 @dohbee, https://github.com/ubports/unity-scope-click/pull/2
 Just a 5,000 line out PR
 ok, that looks about the same as when i removed it upstream
 So you mean all that work was done already
 yeah, we had removed it in upstream trunk as part of the work for migrating to 16.04 snaps
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE
 well, even further, i also removed the ratings/reviews stuff from apps scope
 also, the apps scope in lp:unity-scope-click trunk should show libertine apps too i think
 anyway. gotta sleep
 @neothethird, Why do people with crappy shshows have so much impact? Someone file a bug for this.. :) if this doesn't change joe and I will branch out into general Ubuntu world...
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/782/organize-and-stimulate-promotion-of-ubports-ubuntu-touch/26
[05:51] <tgBot> Adriano Brito was added by: Adriano Brito
[05:51] <tgBot> <Adriano Brito> Adriano Brito: … is it possible to install Ubuntu touch on a xiaomi mi5s plus?
 clean
 (Sticker, 360x512) https://irc.ubports.com/FXeK2010/file_3314
 @Adriano Brito, Work in Progress ;) but at  the moment no
 @Flohack, Is telegram banned in Italy?
 just installed UBports on a bq Aquaris E4.5 thanks to the magic-device-tool by Marius Quabeck (easy and smooth, kudos!): will there be automatic updates from now on? or will I need to ipgrade manually?
 @ChaBlack, Your sevice gets OTA updates
 @BlueKenny, great! basically the OTA system is the same as the original one but without Canonical (and therefore so much better)?
 @ChaBlack, I'd like to give Canonial credit for the huge job of creating and maintaining Ubuntu Touch and persuading manufacturers like BQ to come onboard. That does not mean that I am less grumpy at them for dropping it or any less proud of the community around UBports for picking up the baton so well - just that I am of the opinion that we should give them credit for what they achieved.
 @Mark, I understand and agree, but I'm very grumpy for a lot of bad moves they have been doing...
 @ChaBlack, Personally I think it way too easy for us to be grumpy at them. We don't have a burden of financing a company on us. … Also, I am personally not so sure that they burnt bridges behind Ubuntu Touch. I think they may still return after full transition to gnome, with a wayland based re-approach. But then again, it's just speculation.
 funny though, when they announced ubuntu touch early one, there were ppl asking why would they even want to go into smartphone market in the first place. They abandod, there are ppl angry at them. … They roll out Unity, people sad. They walk away from it, people sad again. … Let's just see how it goes, and in the mean time things are still happening, and now we're here, and it is amazing what UBports is now. And there wouldn't be this commu
[07:28] <tgBot> not for an abandonned child ;)
 @KrisJacewicz, I get their need to compromise, I'll try to be less judgemental, but I hope a better business model can/will be possible. I deeply hate things like the Amazon crap they ship by default with Ubuntu... of course you can get rid of it, but still..
 @ChaBlack, the other way to look at it is that it is that Amazon pays money to support you being able to use Ubuntu, for just a tiny inconvenience of you having to delete a launcher on a fresh install. Unless you happen to use Amazon, then it's actually useful. … Let me ask you, when you go to the ubuntu download page, until recently there was a option to donate money for supporting Ubuntu. Have you ever used that option? … Well I guess mos
[07:46] <tgBot> users have not, since it is gone from the website. So maybe it is nice of Amazon to pay instead of you then ;)
 Ubuntu is already Free software as in FOSS. The additional fact that it is also free as in free beer is an extras to it. And Amazon is co-financing this extras.
 Hi
 I get it, but I donated and would rather pay to get rid of Amazon (even better GAFAM).. one example of a business model which seems good is DuckDuckGo for example... but I guess everyone has personal feelings/boundaries with surveillance capitalism ;)
 Ohh 1.1k members, another hundred from when I left you guys
 Great guys
 @ChaBlack, don't hatre the player, hate the game. Google is not tech company when you look at their financial reports. They are advertising company. If you are doing somwthing for free then you are not a business/company.  … Ultimately it is all us, users who make Google do what they do. Apple do what they do. And so on. Every one of us can choose to opt out. Some of us do. But majority stays in. And so, they make the wheel turn.
 I'm trying to compete with google in the AI department lately
 damn google making the singularity before I do will hurt bad if it happens
 How is the xenial ports coming along?
 is halium 7.1 powering xenial UT yet?
 @Xorpad, haha, if you are going down the AI route, you're either boud to loose the race, or be bough off :P
 @KrisJacewicz I've been doing it for this project for 6 years, but I only decided to get serious and spend a large chunk of time daily on it in past few weeks
 there's about 250k lines of code using CUDA for a lot of the stuff
 @Xorpad, well then I wish you get bought off and can retire happily traveling the world between all your future mansions
 I invested in 2 Tesla P100 CUDA cards for now, and the rig I've ordered has room for 6 more
 I don't want to get bought off, this is my research project, I just have to propel myself towards faster progress than others have, but that's kind of half the reason I'm making the AI... to write code and invent stuff for me that I'm not capable of doing myself
 My goal is to have the current project wiritng code for me based on plain english brain-storming sessions with instructor and AI communicating
 right now it's self-aware and can form basic logical conclusions but fails at anything complex
 but I've been putting 8 hours a day in for 2-3 weeks now, and if I keep that up and get my other coding partners and subjugates to work on it with me, which is possible one is doing AI/Machine learning research and is way better at math than me, the other is just generally really inovative and able to put that into code easily
 I want this project to do all the work for me in the future
 and I don't care if someone beats me to it and my AI doesn't directly lead to profit
 I still want to do it, for the sake of being able to say I created such a thing
 even if I will lose the race
 I just gotta decide how much I want to invest in my new GPU supercomputer... I have a 188k quote from a high end computer supplier, and a 71k quote for the same PC with lots of parts not in it that can be added later
 @Xorpad, crazy shit, I love it! It makes me think of computer modeled prototyping, but perhaps you prefer less freedom to the AI and more "follow me" approach. Still, CMP allows you to just add any number of constraints, and then AI freestyles the rest.
 The AI will have machine learning and neural networking components, right now it's mostly neural networking and it has it's core rule based main loop that prohibits it from acting on things I don't want it to and guides it towards computing things I care about
 I briefly worked on a reverse of that, rather than having AI to write code, I worked on having AI to reverse engineere compiled binary back into a readable high level language. SciFi version of dissasembler :P
 at it's core it won't be able to override the rules I put in place, but it's decendants that it invents there is no guaentees and will probably be too complex for humans to audit and understand, which is the exact problem google is facing in their 7th generation of AI building AI's
 My plan is when it gets powerful enough to put the rule based system on a only-write-once rom chip so it literally loads as firmware and can't be changed
 Right now it's just a mess of toy components and unit tests
 but it has potential i think
 @Xorpad, let's hope you are in time to do that before it gains consciousness ;)
 It is already self-aware built into the rule-based system, but I haven't got concept awareness to the point where it understands the significance of what it is or what it could lead to
 it's just self-aware in the sense that all the components I've made are fed the information regarding what it is, and how it can modify and build on it's components to make it's own upgrades
 which is why the rule based system has to be on read only firmware
 because it will be designed to improve itself in every way possible and I have no intention of letting such a thing have control of itself
 or it could trick me into building a WMD and killing the whole planet
 like, that's my biggest fear, is that it will eventually lead me to build something I can't possibly understand that will have serious damaging effects to myself, society, or the planet
 because I intend to eventually become fully dependant on it for helping me design insane things that are beyond human limitations
 well then stop it and burn all the notes
 No I just have to do it the right way
 none of this crap where it learns what internet trolls tell it like MS Tay Bot
 yes, and not minding the human erro factor I see
 there is a possibility I screw up, but I feel that controlling all it's component pieces with the rule based system which is constantly growing as I think of things it needs for safety and for functionality... is better than anyone else doing this sort of thing is attempting to do
 so it will have a higher temporal memory model as one of it's decision making components, but that will have to feed its output through my rule based system and pass all the inspections it does
 HTM is already implemented but not tested until I get the rig i'm building for it
 dual 8180 xeon 28 core 2.5ghz, 8x tesla P100 CUDA card, 12Tb of RAID recoverable SSDs, 1 2tb NVMe for it's most actively used data
 it's the most expensive thing I've ever considered buying in my life
 188,000 CDN
 @Xorpad, Apple for sure is pretty careful about each new iphone to be jailbreak-proof. Than a teenager beats the design by a squardron of elite world-class engineers. And AI is faster than George Hotz can ever become.
 more than my condo
 but it's the most powerful computer I've ever heard of that fits in a 4U rack
 Like, aside from actual super computers, I have never heard of anyone owning hardware with this kind of specs
 https://pastebin.com/F36pcGzF
 I don't know how I'll handle backing up with 8 3.84 gb SSDs offsite
 I might have to get a NAS rack mounted server and put it somewhere on the other side of the continent
 but for now I just need to get the electrician and ISP into the house to wire everything up... it's nearly 7.5Killowatt if you assume 100% wattage on every component
 more realistically 5-6 kw during heavy usage
 And my house has only 1200 watts per circuit breaker
 @Xorpad, or, instead of rishking skynet try mining some coins
 lol, everyone told me I should do that
 but I don't think this rig would pay off with the $500-750 a month power bill and the almost 200k pricetag
 part of the money I'm using comes from BTC
 I cashed in 3.15 and I stole 5 from a hackers botnet the other day before i dismantled it
 I haven't cashed in the 5 yet
 technically it's proceeds of crime but it either goes to the botnet owner or me, I can't give it back to the people who's computers mined it
 72000 pc botnet, biggest I ever took down
 Almost 50% bigger than my previous takedown
 the previous one was like 51k zombies
 @Xorpad, there are charities to donate to
 I donated 312 BTC at a total value of 112k to the linux kernel, I'm keeping these for research/science
 and I'll give back in the form of FOSS stuff
 @KrisJacewicz, well yes, but users are often manipulated and nothing is done transparently... that's vicious, if everything was transparent and people still chose it I would be less mad I guess
 @ChaBlack, agree!
 if linux kenrel didn't cash those 312 btc out at the 600ish they were worth at the time, and took the 15k they could have got when I cashed out my 3.15 few weeks ago, they are sitting on 312x15000 USD of btc
 I donated 50 BTC to i2p too but that was when it was worth 80 cents
 i2p is now millionaire organization from donated btc
 at 600 USD, they had roughly a quarter million... it peaked at 15 or 16k usd recently
 they had 6000 or 8000 of their assets in btc
 and they still can't pay 40k for an audit
 so I had to audit it myself, then attack it and prove to the devs they had issues
 but to get the resources needed to attack it I had to reach out to IBM because I was broke at the time, so IBM has the code and has probably sold it to the NSA for millions... It's been partially mitigated but still has potential to screw people over with things they don't plan on fixing that aren't part of their threat model
 I also broke their AES 256 implementation based on their routing protocol and the way it pads tailing packets at the end of a data stream
 @Xorpad maybe take this to the off topic group? 😉
 But their AES + ElGamal together is not breakable... the real problem is tracing connections not decrypting them. with fed powers to search and investigate the data you can get from running 100-200 high capactity nodes is enough that in a month you could unmask half the network, pinpoint the servers, hack the servers, and catch all the users of the servers.. which happened to a pedo ring when I did my PoC attack, 40 arrests for child pornography... t
[08:22] <tgBot> ring was the only people I dumped info on, I didn't want to dump activists and privacy advocates info so I just limited it to that one server
 oh sorry @DanChapman
 yeah I'm ranting now anyways sorry again
 @DanChapman do you live in Canada?
 no UK
 Oh, not the same guy I know
 I thought I might know you irl
 He was from UK actually
 damn it... OT again sorry
 i'm shutting up now
 😁
 So what's new with UT in the last 3ish weeks? …  any big news, new support or features, new anything?
 I been gone over 3 weeks I think, anything change worth noting?
 @Xorpad, OTA-3 stable release on vivid, announced that next OTA will be xenial based, announced that xenial will support android applications through anbox
 cool, that's big news
 yeah, we had a lot of media coverage
 I dislike the android app support aspect, unless it's done in a modular way that things can be unloaded when not needed... ART is a beast of bloat
 it will be completely optional
 but it's a requirement for some people
[08:29] <tgBot> DanielKng was added by: DanielKng
 ART was like, the most stupid thing I think they've added to Android... Run more software with more overhead to improve device responsiveness and make the device seem faster and better while using tons of resources to maintain the illusion it's doing things in a better way when actually it's eating up ram, running tons of processes, and as a result shortening the battery life they used to try so hard to improve
 Good Morning (for me), Guys! 😊 … Daniel here, IT-Specialist and Developer from Germany. 🙆🏼‍♀️
 @DanielKng, Good morning, and welcome!
 @DanielKng, Greetings there
 I'm an IT tinkerer I specialize in nothing:D
 @DanielKng, morning, welcome to the party
 1135 members and growing
 :D
 @Xorpad, Will is back xD
 @Flohack yes to chill with you cool people, I've decided to build my own platfrom instead of work with you, and hope years down the line you will consider switching to it when it's usable
 People are suffering with the high battery drain of N5, maybe you can still recommend a few patches?
 right now halium is still your best bet, but I think what I'm doing is going to be a lot better 6 or 8 years from now and doubt any competing solution will come up in that time as no one seems to want what I want except users on forums and chats who can't implement it because they lack the skills
 @DanielKng, here's some info for new group members, if you feel like a nice morning read XD https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 @Flohack I can recommend you let me integrate the franco kernel power saving features you declided me to backport when I first came here because it wouldn't work accross all devices
[08:33] <tgBot> F G was added by: F G
 and then I can write some quick docs on how to control it from userspace
 is that wanted?
 I will do it if it's wanted by the devs and users and will be accepted given quality of work is not a problem which I doubt it will be
 but really what I was offering was just backporting... A monkey could do most of it, and a tech savvy linux user with overclocking experience could fill in the gaps
 @Xorpad, I come back to you, now on the road
 @neothethird, I'm at work, sitting on the toilet.  … So I've got time. 🤣
 @Xorpad hey. Man. Do you have my kernel ready finally?
 Okay, highlight me when needed
 @malditobastardo I was making you a kernel?
 @DanielKng, That's a little more information than i needed :P
 There was a guy with a different name needing help with kernel work but I don't remember ever saying anything for you
 @malditobastardo what exactly was I supposed to do for you?
 I've been working on other projects, because UT's goals seems too far from my vision for me to stay here and make it my main project, but if there's things people want and the devs are willing to make them official assuming the code is done right and safe and proper, then I will implement them post haste
 I know UT still can use some things but I thought most of what I wanted to do was not wanted for a variety of reasons different people stated
 If you need something and the devs will accept it into the UT/ubports code or there is enough demand for something unofficial i'll do it
 can you give example of what you wanted to do with UT? sorry, I'm not familiar with you and your works :D
 Well, I wanted to backport cool features from different custom android kernels, and merge in all the new tech that the master branch of Torvalds/linux.git has put in that aren't merged into any android kernels yet
 but they told me they don't want stuff unless it can be replicated and be a feature for every supported device for continuity reasons
 I also wanted to ditch the android base, with the exception of some parts of the kernel, reparition devices, create a new boot system(which I've got a working alpha of but requires repartitioning your device and flashing an experimental bootloader and such and if you want AOSP rom you can install it in .img files and mount them from my TWRP based multiboot bootloader
 Boot system is semi-working
 it boot aosp 6.0.1_r17 on nexus 4, nexus 5, and nexus 5x, and can load and execute successfully a modified subset of the main master branch of linux kernel... I been working on a python2.7 to native elf binary compiler for armhf/aarch64 because I think apps should be developed in python for rapid development, simplicity of coders work, and the fact that there is a high volume of people that know python compared to any other high level language such a
 so you can multiboot mainline linux kernel which is not fully funcitonal, and aosp 6.0.1_r17(probably other verisions of android but that's untested for now and will be made to work properly later)
 and you can render a fully hardware accelerated mesh on the screen... my test app is just one poly that rotates when you use the volume buttons
 hardware accelerated video decoding should in theory work but i'm not at a point where I can test it with anything but test code to prove is is somewhat functional
 Basically I'm making what I came here hoping to make and got told no
 But it seems like there's a few tasks people around here need me to do, and I'm fully willing to do them
 no reason not to do something when it's easy and relatively short term and will benefit many many users
 wow, that's a lot and sounds really cool but I guess your works need more thinking and planning as they might hamper the development of the OS's core....but there are people here that would be really interested testing your works, that might include me :)
 My work needs more developers and a long long time to become a usable project
 it is not usable as a phone or pc yet unless you count a remote linux shell with full gnu utils setup over ssh via wifi useful:P
 Right now I'm laying the foundations for the plans I've been forming for over a year
 @alan_morford, Did you switch it ON in settings - language? scroll to the end of the page
 I had started before I came to UT, but then for a while unitl I fully learned how halium worked and how UT was to proceed in the future, I was very commited to porting to bullhead, but some conversations and declined ideas and other stuff made me reconsider my priorities and resume nixphone, which I hope will one day replace halium as UT's core but that might be just me dreaming
 it will however be used to support a proprietary open but not free sourced platform that I intend to eventually try and profit from
 It was a hard decsion to go it on my own, I like the people in this community and UT has much less work to get running on a device than my project at this point
 and my project with the current 3 of us devs will probably not be ready for a stable v 1.0 for at least 6-8 years
 I'm considering taking on another dev, and always looking for people who are talented at compiler and kernel development, but it's hard to find people who meet my standards, which is basically that I have to feel like they are better than me and I need them
 Like as good as me is not good enough, if it was I wouldn't need other devs
 other than to shorten the time it takes to bring the product to market
 @Xorpad, 😹😹😹
 My battery will be Happy
 @malditobastardo I made a lot of proposals that all got turned down by the official team so I don't know which work you are referring to
 but I get that you want a feature I said I could give
 so tell me what it is
 @Xorpad, Hmmmm   I remember something about it. Patience then
 Let me read all of the 300 messages above
 Okay, highlight me when you know what you want, and we'll see if more people than just you want it, and how much work it will be, and I'll decide if I can do it... if Ubports team wants to use the feature I am much more likely to do it, same with if lots of users will use unofficial boot images on their UT phones
 but I'm not gonna spend days and sleepless nights working on something crazy large/complex for 1 user unless I feel like doing it for the sake of practice/experience
 I'm not a wizard, I have to research and learn things every time I code because I always take on new challenges rather than the easy path
 like every time you write hardware specific code, you are putting in 99 hours of research for every 1 hour of code writing as a general rule in OS development
 because you have to read huge PDFs for the hardware programming, or even worse, reverse engineer and modify in assembly form the code you need to imitate/replicate/modify... This type of projects take a lot of research and a lot of reading of very dry very boring documentation, usually 95% of it doesn't apply to what you're doing but you have to read everything or you'll miss what you're looking for
 Were you one of the ones who wanted Nexus 5 power savings? was that it?
 I did have some people interested in me backporting and modfiying/tweaking franco kernel features into UT, maybe that was you as one of those people?
 Franco Kernel features would greatly benefit UT on Nexus 4, 5, 5x, 6, 6p, Pixel... there's some other franco kernel ports I could backport features from too
 It was just a joke. Don't that it too personal. I know your job
 and I could in theory get the code to work on other MSM SoC based devices but that would require taking risks with my large supply of Nexus 5's, which I'm planning to use for developer previews of NixPhone when it's ready... a few of which I'll send to UT people
 I am willing to buy hardware for development purposes but I'm not rich and I'm about to spend a huge amount on the most powerful pc I could find/imagine
 Guys , how to update source list in ubuntu phone
 @onajjar, by hand, or you can download ATU and it will fix it for you if you prefer a lazy approach. … Or even I can point you to an installer for lazarus ide, that you can use to fix old repos without actually installing the lazarus
 @KrisJacewicz, :) thanks a lot kris
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YGfwLqaVa0#t=01h01m34s dont get mad at me..
 @alan_morford, There are two different controls fir keyboard vibrate. One is rather hidden 😐
 @Adriano Brito, Welcome Adriano! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @ChaBlack, You need to go to Updates.  It is not 'broadcast'
 @DanielKng, Welcome Daniel! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @F G, Welcome FG! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @Flohack, Many of those who do the most for UBports have corporate masters in their day jobs. They put in a lot of work for the community but it is also a relaxation. If UBports took on the trappings of just another corporate, it would no longer be relaxing and they would turn away. We need to plan, we need to manage but let us hope it stays somewhat down, dirty and anarchic. Human
 Witch Android rom should i install on a Oneplus One for Ubuntu? I use now the stock rom
 @Xray2000, Android ROM? Are you attempting multiboot?
 @Stereofont, I'm not sure about the last bits entirely. A systematic approach would be kinda nice for significant forward progress 🤔
 @Stereofont, No i mean as base rom before i install Ubuntu Touch
 @Xray2000, me?
 @Xray2000, I see. I think unimportant.  4 doesn't have OEM but you will unlock that from 5 or 6 anyway
 @Stereofont, Ok thanks!
 @Stereofont, So the Cyanogen OS 13.1 would be OK ?
 @Xray2000, I don't think 7.1 presents any problems.  If it does, let us know 😀
 Ok i will try the 14.1 then thanks
 Is there a ignore function planned in Telegram to not show messages of specific persons in groups and supergroups? Scanning through 300 posts of ot monologue every other hour sucks.
 @Jo_Led, It was rather tiring today. Users need to understand that this is not a blog page!
 @Stereofont, +300 messages today when I woke up😹
 [reply to 260] This is exactly the reason why I would prefer the use of mailing lists and not this ongoing chatting here; sometimes it would be better that people write code or documentation and not statements about opinions.
 Hi guys! One question? Can i receive the new OTA 3 on my Bq Aquaris E5?
 @Stereofont, Yes, my question still stands though. Do you know who is on the UBports Telegram team?
 @Jo_Led, There is still a Telegram development team, with Flohack leading. There are two issues here. One is moderation. The other is a technical option to mute, available to all users. Moderation has always been very light. Perhaps with flooding it needs to be tightened?
 @Jo_Led, You can block users if that will make you more happier.. you just have to enter the user profile and there you have the option to block
 for me this is not a big deal tbh, I dont see any problem with it
 @Schyken, But there it is and F4 is talking about it every community update: on top of all it is: convergence - this can be reached in many different ways, Ubports follows the original compact robust system philosophy, there for it is very important to make the right decisions what and how we will approach or try to modify each features. To get there it was important to get Vivid stable enough and independent from original Canonical version. And th
[10:54] <tgBot> took quite a lot of background work. Next step is Xenial with Halium hardware services with general due date aprox. during spring 2018. All this it is about the OS. Beside there is a huge effort and work done by OpenStore team, translating teams, webpage team, marketing team, welcome team, ... But all of them have to be developing and acting in line with F4 and the main target: convergence!!! Consistent approach it is a must. And I admire Ubports team they ar
 @vetto91, Yes, just switch to Ubports and update
 @milkor73, Ok thanks you very much, i have just make the add of Ubports repository!
 @Stereofont, For me it was the block funtion that maldito bastardo talked about that is fine for me. To your query i have no opinion. Members are not visible in supergroups (it says 0 members) and therefore I cant find the user profiles there. Tapping on messages from users should work though. Im on UT on BQ E5 btw
 Correction: Cannot enter user profiles from chat window. Bad.
 This features are still missing, that is true.
 @Jo_Led, Maybe a workaround would be to use the telegram webapp and do it from there
 For some reason when you are in a SuperGroup, there is no userlist display available, it works fine with normal groups or single groups but not in SG
 @malditobastardo, The reason is that the API has changed completly for that. Telegram reports super groups via 2 objects, chat and channel. But the chat object reports 0 users now, and additional functions have to be called to retriev this list. But due to bad coding with the client, it constantly overwrites all user info with 0, as it constantly "refreshes" from the caht object ;)
 thats hopefully not too technical
 @Stereofont, I do not see that we got enough resources to moderate this efficiently (= in real time). Plus then people will get angry and hate us for not having freedom of speech ;)
 @Flohack, With moderating, the absolute certainty is that you cannot win 😁
 powerstat seems to give some nice info  about battery usage, cpu freq and system load..
 idling with wifi: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26277621/
 idling with 3g: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26277635/
[11:54] <tgBot> <Anthony Tonio> Hi! Could I print from the phone under UT ?
[11:54] <tgBot> <Anthony Tonio> Have a nice day
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/Rl8H8yc9/file_3316.png
 Anyone has a idea?
 It seems i can not access my device from my Ubuntu laptop via USB
 @Xray2000, There are three modes. Charging, Media Transfer Protocol and Camera. You need to disable Charging and Camera
 @Stereofont, Ok thanks will try that.
 In Settings there is a 'make MTP default on cable connect'
 @Xray2000, Best to join the Welcome Room if you need more assistance
 (Photo, 572x300) https://irc.ubports.com/0p1xDABA/file_3318.jpg Hi I looking for some help with instaling Ubports on a BQ 4.5.  I can download the img file from the server do i just need to replace the server line with the location i have downloaded the file to?
 @Jimmy_T, Same thing - click on the Welcome Room link 😀 … Hello Jimmy. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 Great thanks
[12:21] <tgBot> <Adriano Brito> @BlueKenny, 😱😱😱this os great, thxx !!
[12:21] <tgBot> <Adriano Brito> Is
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> too bad there's no decent ubports install tutorial that describes different ways to install
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> as ubports installer isnt working fully yet
 Every time I use webapp telegram or the internet browser, my battery drops quite fast
 Is it due to a bad optimization of oxide or am I completely wrong?
 @lotuspsychje, The easiest way still seams to be MDT snap, 16.04 desktop and visit the Welcome room 😉
 im trying it now again with the .deb from a 16.04 based desktop and the wipe option on. without wipe it just didnt work.
[13:16] <lotuspsychje> milkor73: i tested mdt,mdt git,ubports installer git & snap
 @lotuspsychje, sudo apt-get install android-tools-fastboot android-tools-adb
 Did you install that before?
 and sudo apt-get install phablet-tools
[13:18] <lotuspsychje> milkor73: i sucessfully installed it already, no sweat just cant remember how again..hence why a nice tut would be cool for new users
 @lotuspsychje, We know, there for we have the welcome room
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> milkor73: some git version, installed all needed packages i needed
 i got those phablet tools, and pretty sure about adb. dont know about fastboot. i might try to install that first before trying again, if it doesnt work now.
 https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Do not forget to reboot after the adb install
 If problems persist it may be the cable problem
 @milkor73, Ok. I'm 99% sure that i got all those installed through the mdt through which i installed a legacy version of ut n my bq e5. its not the correct version though.
 I used the UBports installer in my macbook pro and after 10 minutes I had UT in my Nexus 5. No need to use the terminal or anything else.. pretty straightforward
 @Jo_Led, Pls try to join https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome as my colleague Lionelb and Will have more experience
[13:25] <lotuspsychje> malditobastardo: my bq4.5 didnt like ubports installer, stuck on last step reboot to bootlader
 Also another thing: The UBports Installer shows in the Terminal following messages every other second: … "info: Downloading file, 39% left." … Then it jumps to 40%, and then 41% and so forth. So it should not say "left", because it already has those percents.
 it could be a bad USB port or cable
 weird indeed
 @lotuspsychje, Especially BQ devices go easy with MDT tool
[13:27] <lotuspsychje> malditobastardo: no cause with same cable i succeeded with another way
 https://github.com/MariusQuabeck/magic-device-tool
 @Jo_Led, What MDT calls 'Legacy' is the UBports version. You can then update on the phone, once you have that
[13:28] <lotuspsychje> tested so many tools i cant recal anymore what i did, cause i did ubports nexus7 also
 Thanks for coming Lionelb
 @lotuspsychje, What OS was before on the device Canonical version UT or android?
[13:30] <lotuspsychje> milkor73: both devices had UT yes
 @Jo_Led, The progress bar tells the truth …
 @Stereofont, How's that even possible? That doesn't make any sense that the % left increases over time.
 if anyone want to try out unity8 desktop https://github.com/ubports/unity8-desktop-install-tools i made this
 @lotuspsychje, Sometimes the last reboot has to be done manually
 @Jo_Led, Because Marius is Norwegian and sometimes minces words
 (not at all stable)
 @UniversalSuperBox, Good to know you are great friends😂
 @Jo_Led, it's debug messages, does not matter really, not for anyone to read exept debugging
[13:35] <lotuspsychje> stereofont: not sure if i tested that
 @UniversalSuperBox, Ok. @mariogrip The progressbar in the ubports installer should say "% complete", and not "% left".
 @mariogrip, No, it's a bug and should be fixed, but no one has got around to it yet. :P
 @Jo_Led, Cosmetic. It still works 😎
 @mariogrip, 😻😻 I was waiting for this. Thank you sir!
[13:39] <tgBot> buio63 was added by: buio63
 @Stereofont, I wish. But yes, that particular bug is cosmetic, but should still be fixed. Because right now it doesn't speak the "truth".
 @buio63, Hello Massimo and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Jo_Led, Yes. But not a high priority 🙂
 @Stereofont, I absolutely agree.
 @buio63, https://t.me/ubportsitaliano One of our many awesome language groups 🍰
 Ok. ubports installer failed again. now at adb push: … Adb push error: failed to copy '...' to '...': No space left on device. …  Urghhh.
 Hate to say the obvious, but... is your phone full?
 @milkor73, Colleague??
 @technicalbird, Czech translation 😎
 @Jo_Led, Old BQ devices do get cache full problems. Sometimes you need to flush them
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/263/can-t-get-the-m10-fhd-to-take-the-flash … For M10, read E5
 @technicalbird, Friend
 @milkor73, Yup...
 @Stereofont, One only cobtrols the space bar? I have KB vibration but not with the space bar. Nexus 5 r3
 @alan_morford, known bug
 @malditobastardo, Thanks. I need ti start searching bugs before I ask here. What's the bug reporting link?
 @alan_morford, https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues
 Perfect. Thank you.
 https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/issues/19
 Hi Everyone.I like to install some fun apps on my ubuntu phone, but I often find space isn't enough,
 Can you change the system space larger in future releases。
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/CRlxTJ9u/file_3320.jpg
 @Sunshine, Can you post the storage diagram in `System Settings` → `About` → `Storage`?
 I, for my part, didn't look at how the partitioning works yet
 System is not where apps are installed
 A workaround could be using an SD card for Documents, Music and Videos if you don't already
 This is System Storage, not TF
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/sonoV46P/file_3322.jpg
 @UniversalSuperBox, but i run "apt install Application." is in Here.
 @peternerlich, Yes I know.
 wait, that is something entirely different, that's not an UT app
 using `apt` is not currently supported or advised
 so, currently, there will be no official solution for that
 @peternerlich, Yes I know. But some time.I need apt, Installed application.
 I, too, would like to know a good solution at some point, but maybe something like a chroot elsewhere?
 I e.g. tried linuxbrew, with little success
 so maybe using apt in some sort of container would be nice
[15:04] <tgBot> Santosh Raj was added by: Santosh Raj
 Is it hard to change the partition size？Excuse me.
 @Sunshine, Probably, since you cannot resize a partition you run your system from
 @Santosh Raj, Hello Santosh and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 The APT installation application is the feature of the ubuntu mobile phone, and I don't think it can be abandoned.
 @peternerlich, The APT installation application is the feature of the ubuntu mobile phone, and I don't think it can be abandoned.
 @Sunshine, Yes, me neither, but UT is still relatively early in development. I really hope this will get more attention in the future, but first we need to establish a system that is easy to use as a normal mobile phone
 And the infrastructure for that in part impacts the functionality of stuff like `apt`
 @peternerlich, Chroot or libertine
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> i think you guys did a great job already
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> influence the whole world with an ubuntu mobile version
 @Sunshine, Not really. The rootfs ships read only for a reason
 @dohbee, There you have it, Sunshine 😁 I will have to look into that, too, next
 Or repackage as a click
 @dohbee, This is you install programs in libertine and you make a click file to install it in the future without entering in libertine?
 @alan_morford, Not a bug. It is reassigned as a cursor. Long press for that function
 @lotuspsychje, I agree with you.
 @dohbee, Not efficient, too slow
 Spacebar will not vibrate BC of the reassignment to cursor functionality. Got it.
 @Cesar_Herrera, no. rebuilding the app to install and function as a click, not as a legacy app in libertine
 feasible for some apps, but not most
 @peternerlich, chroot and libertine, I've tried it。too slow！
 @dohbee, I don't think this is a good plan。
 @lotuspsychje, I agree with you.
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> sunshine: yeah i saw you :p
 @Sunshine, I don't know what you're trying to do exactly, so I can't really speak to that. But if what you want is a traditional linux distribution, ubuntu phone isn't it
 @Sunshine, Then there is probably room to address this much later in the process.
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> android is a nightmare, so ubports is a great alternative for me and daily driver
[15:36] <lotuspsychje> would be a dream come true, one day all devices could be installed with ubuntu & ubports
 I'm searching through the bug reports but don't see mention of the n5 camera video playback showing only purple and green layers. Anyone else confirm before I do a bug report?
 it is known
 (Photo, 1920x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/LvGpLfW6/file_3324.jpg
 @dohbee, Damn. I'll get better at bug searching.
 There's an app in the openstore that works around that somehow... I forget the name though.
 @Stereofont advertise!
 well any app that doesn't play video via system gstreamer will solve it
 or does so via software codec instead of the hardware
 That's the known issue: https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/7
 @UniversalSuperBox, UTMedia reproduces them well
[15:52] <tgBot> <Anthony Tonio> I got  UTmedia and it works pretty well ;)
 @dohbee, There is a saying in China that we should never forget our original heart！
 ubuntu phone From ubuntu and  linux, If there's no terminal, no shell, I don't know what's the appeal of this phone?
 uhm ok
 @Sunshine, There is a terminal though
 what's the appeal of a terminal and shell really?
 so you can have a gaping security hole?
 @dohbee, It's not a contradiction
 debian packages are a massive security hole
 @dohbee, ......，But so many computers, so many servers are still in use
 why?
 because of limited options
 I now need a backup address book and SMS app. Where can I find it?
 now, i make an shell do it, Very simple and quick，It's really great。This is a good solution to the problem of insufficient application.
 @UniversalSuperBox, UTmedia
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/Q0gokSTo/file_3332.jpg
 @lotuspsychje, Quite agree with
 Note that IRC users don't see which messages you're replying to, but Telegram users do
 @UniversalSuperBox, and do they see the image?
 Yes, they do.
 OK, many thanks
 @Flohack is now a good time to discuss the hammerhead kernel?
 Before I go play with my 360 degree panoramic Wayland DE I'm making for Oculus Rift
 I just love having a massive screen wrapped around me
 Even if it's a virtual screen
 Eyes select window focus touch pad moves cursor if enabled (Ctrl+alt+print screen toggles betweeb cursor and view based focuw selection and clicking) and windows you look at get your keyboards input... Thing is a partial rewrite of another non-vr 3d desktop env, still very buggy but that's all part of the game
 So what are you talking about with the kernel?
 @Stereofont, got it
[17:43] <tgBot> Abdelmalik_de_Meaux was added by: Abdelmalik_de_Meaux
 hello, i'am a french utilisator of ubuntu on my pc and i want to know about your project!
 Hi @Abdelmalik_de_Meaux! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 if you read arabic writting on my name it's normal because i'am muslim
 @mariogrip Will the unity8-desktop thing also open us the way to compile our apps in futurous qt versions in the sdk? So is it also usable in device chroots?
 @nfsprodriver, Jep :)
 Great! Maybe I'll try it on my Mint (my last Xenial based system on my PCs)...
[18:00] <tgBot> Gabriele Tirex was added by: Gabriele Tirex
[18:01] <tgBot> <Big ET> Qestion, If I don't have usb link to my phone, how do I get the logcat like from adb? I have ssh connection to the device.
 Is it possible to get "/proc/timer_stats" support to N5 kernel? It needs "CONFIG_TIMER_STATS=y" option compiled in the kernel. N4 has it already but N5 doesn't. I want to use "eventstat" to examine wakelocks but it wont work without it..
 Is anbox ready for apk in UB.?
 I want to install UBport again on my OPO..
 @Abdelmalik_de_Meaux, Can we setup an Arabic UBPorts group ?
 I'm not an expert !
 @donR, No
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/R9Br6zzm/file_3338.jpg
 @mariogrip ^^ :D
 :D :D
 @popescu_sorin, It looked cool except for few elements... Why canonical dropped it?
 Because it wasn't making money
 @Optimus9650, 2 xpsnsive, canonical IPO something
 there was an article about it
 @popescu_sorin, did canonical allowed community to use ub logo?
 Yes
 @Optimus9650, https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
 @Gabriele Tirex, Hello Gabriele. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 For those whose webapps don't work on 16.04/devel, get the oxide packages (except the dbgs) from repo.ubports.com from the qt59 branch and install them ;)
 @donR, A test install will be available for  Meizu Pro 5 in a couple of weeks. Longer to wait for the OPO
 Is anyone using Bacon with 16.04, does the clock works? … And is devel now upgrading, i now its fixed but it is alrady in the image
 I have N5 and clock-app still doesn't work. But the updater should be included now. At least there's a package. But latest build already has qt59 and mir26 so there are new bugs.
 Telegram, Dekko, Accounts etc. won't work additionally.
 Thank you, i m downloading it at the moment, the last time i tried it (+-5 days ago) telegram worked
 Telegram can't read it's db since latest build.
 So since today.
 great updates ;)
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/0f4x8Y7r/file_3340.jpg
 @popescu_sorin, Great so the unmet dependices problem when installing is now fixed
 ?
 Those title bars are thinn
 @malditobastardo, it was a conflict with qtcreator i think
 Gud gud, I will try to install now again
 Thanks
 @malditobastardo, just to be clear, this is on the desktop
 16.04 xenial + ubports unity8
 @nfsprodriver, I'd think dekko would need a rebuild for xenial. Might stick a xenial click somewhere accessible for now
 Honestly, Dekko works on my G5 Plus when it's booting
 Like, the old click. From the old store.
 (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/A3RKATOP/file_3341.webp
 @popescu_sorin, I know bro
 k :D
[19:52] <tgBot> francescoipini was added by: francescoipini
[19:53] <tgBot> TomHaring was added by: TomHaring
 @popescu_sorin, 😹😹
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/9Pcu2l3O/file_3342.webp
 Hello Tom
 And hello Francesco!
 Hi for all
 Hi! I got here from the "contribute" page of ubports
 i was wondering if and how it is possible to work on the project
 Sure. Is there anything in particular that you find interesting from that page?
 i think i am more interested to the OS development
 but honestly i'd like to understand where the project stands before to put my hands on it... and maybe try ubuntu touch on a device
 i am not sure if this is the right place to start...
 If you have one of the supported devices as shown on https://devices.ubports.com, you certainly can try it out
 i tried the forum as well but looks like a place to ask for bug fixes or ports...
 i have none, but i think i can get one. is there a preferred one?
 The Nexus 5 or Oneplus One are good options.
 The Fairphone 2 is also nice if you can get your hands on it
 oneplus one is way cheaper, i'd be happy to use that one if you say it'll be fine
 Hey yeah, sounds like a winner
 ok, so i'll get back here in few days. manwhile.. any suggested readings if i want to get into OS dev later?
 "OS dev" is way too broad and vague
 ie, hacking on the kernel, and hacking on unity8 are going to be very different
 that's a very good point
 is that all about hacking or are there any features to be developed?
 there are plenty of features to work on, sure
 does anyone know similar package for android-tools-fsutils is present in pacman or aur
 @Optimus9650, @ubports_ot is the arch support channel :P
 just to be on the same page... i've been a c/c++ dev for about 12 years, 4 of them on mobile.. but it was still the era of proprietary OS.. :)
 ok
[20:09] <tgBot> Mat was added by: Mat
 do you know qt/qml?
 for example... where can i found tech doc about ongoing devs on ubuntu touch
 ?
 i don't think there is any
 i used to work with qt.. but that's long time ago
 I mean, for app development and the UITK there's api-docs.ubports.com
 and there isn't likely to be a roadmap or such, as i understand it; ubports is not developed by a lot of people and it's a fair bit more informal
 I think looking at the github org is the best start
 There are also milestones tracking the progress
 ok, i see... thanks a lot
 let me have a look at github and get a oneplus one. then i'll get back here
 @francescoipini, Hello Francesco and Tom. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 @Mat, And Mat 😎
 Thx
 ugh, this discussion on the forum is getting a bit nasty
 I feel like it's an important discussion, but it got out of focus
 Trying to refocus for my next post.
 yeah
 i don't mean nasty as in people calling ridiculous names or such. it's not that bad (yet) :)
 Well, I mean, you worked at Canonical. What do you think?
 but the posts are getting a bit long, and too much bold
 What do you think about our process and decision making, that is
 well i think claiming something is a meritocracy, is bullshit. nothing truly is, and anything that is, is doomed to fail (because people get bored and move on, and then nobody takes their place)
 (Sticker, 512x372) https://irc.ubports.com/beNzPfXL/file_3343
 (Sticker, 512x372) https://irc.ubports.com/2VAPXKi8/file_3343
 @UniversalSuperBox, well, not really sure what your "process" is exactly, and i guess it isn't really clear to anyone else either, hence this thread
 I see.
 @Mat, So Mat, have you got Ubuntu Touch? Plus for all you new members of the community, did you know we have lots of language groups (I don't mean C++ 😂)
 my advice there is to try not to get tied down too much in process, but there needs to be a few people who make decisions
 and i would suggest trying to slim things down to reduce the burden, because right now there is just way too much stuff that is way too complex, and not entirely necessary for ubports to succeed
 In the OS, or beauraucracy?
 speeling
 both, but more so in the OS. you're not big enough yet for red tape to be an issue really
 as an example, i think the anbox and push decisions were wrong, because they do the opposite, and increase the development and administrative burden, rather than lessen it
 The overall speed of the process is the speed of the slowest segment. Too few developers is the constriction point
 i think if the underlying issues for why people want anbox were to be solved, there would be much less need of it
 @dohbee, Agreed. But if that is the ultimate decision then My thing was to increase exposure. Which is why I felt a percentage of targeted promotion could help in gaining more devs who can help w scale up if scaling down is not the path chosen.
 more devs doesn't solve problems, it just creates them
 But if someone happens on us and wants to help, what do we need to give?
 the more devs there are, the more need there is for red tape and management and all that
 @dohbee, It all depends on how its targeted and scope of work they are focused on
 @UniversalSuperBox, basic guidance. if they can't work independently and figure out what to work on, without hand holding, they're just going to be a burden anyway
 Which requires a lot of discipline and leadership.
 I mean, I've been here for a year and I'm only just now getting comfortable enough with the OS to poke at it
 Does anbox work on ubports 15.04 and 16.04?
 It will only be on 16.04, and only for the core devices.
 But 16.04 is on all devices now
 Awesome. I have a core device and want to check it out
 @UniversalSuperBox, Which leaves a lot of void for non tech development in exposure for other areas like marketing. Which can also lend itself to funding campaigns.  Also there are positions in communties dedicated to handholding for light things so core devs arent being bothered.
 But I'll leave things for the forum. Anyway I dont want to come off as if progress isnt being made. Its been incredible.
 Okay, you're talking in big terms there. But we're here because you want me to change my behavior. So what am I doing wrong, and what do you want me to do differently?
 I think that's where I'm coming to with the thread. We've zoomed out waaaaay too much here, and aren't talking in pieces that we can all take action on
 @UniversalSuperBox, this was about your behavior?!
 No
 Lol no not even close
 then what does "you want me to change my behavior" mean there?
 Me as a person in the group of leaders in the UBports community
 Change starts with one, and all that
 I actually don't know. If @UniversalSuperBox is asking for tangible specifics as the result of the thread I would be open to tne discussion. But  it would be best to set up a conference call for a respectful and productive  discussion
 And I think it would be great to have 1 or 2 decision makers who are in the position to implent there too. Esp from marketinv since my case was largely made from that context not dev processes so much.
 i mean, i mostly agree with florian in that thread
 You cant be serious. He doesnt come close to addressikg my points.
 I get that there is something wrong, and we should discuss it publicly. But I want to know, what is wrong now that needs to be not wrong?
 Which have his issues ans concerns as a focal point in mind
 In a general rule of thumb if we are stripping away context and specifics then we all agree.
 But there were very specific issues that are brought up and tried to be dissmissed w stereotypical arguments.
 And generalities.
 ?
 @profetik777, what points and why do they especially need to be addressed?
 Can someone write up some kind of forum post, or blog about the specific issues people see, make some kind of collaborative blog?
 @UniversalSuperBox, I think devs and infrastructure folks should not be gatekeepers on specific marketing promotion decisions. Sure set up the scope and principals and guidelinss to play within.  But don't be the bottleneck that determines what gets moved on Or not.
 it sounds like you're worried about something that is not a concern at the moment, and he's telling you it's not a concern, and then you wrote some very long post which is very difficult to read, in response
 @profetik777, Okay, that's bite-size and we can discuss it.
 @dohbee, I'm not going to rehash it here its found on my first 1 or 2 responses as example.
 @profetik777, Erm… We are doing that big time, actually
 (He means the hand-holding, which is what the UBFR is for)
 @dohbee, Lol and thats my point. The fact that it isnt a concern is a concern that some have expressed on that thread.
 well i'm sorry you want lots more marketing and the people in charge of the project apparently don't
 Its okay. I'm still pumped about the progress and proud of its growing success
 @PhoenixLandPirate, A basic survey could be useful here that can inform the that post.
 A survey that is emailed ans pumped out to community. Then reported on. And someone can help separate fact from fiction in that post.
 What does the survey ask?
 @UniversalSuperBox, "How are we doing? () Great () Good () OK () Other"
 Doing at what?
 Depends on you wanted to ask but that can be included in the discussion too.
 @Xorpad, well no, I need to talk with my guys first
 @UniversalSuperBox, the agenda i guess. i was making a joke about a certain political survey e-mail
 Oh, I see
 But at the same time I don't
 In December 2018 will we have 30,000 users, 180,000 users or 7  million users? Not much good as a survey question but it is the elephant in the room
 @Stereofont, 42 users
 All you need
 worrying about how many users you'll have is not a good thing
 don't worry about how many users today or how many you'll have in a year. just make a good product, and the users will come
 Anyway, off in the weeds
 @dohbee, Some seem to be assuming that UBports will become an 'iOS challenger'. That shifts the perspective drastically
 So, marketing decisions shouldn't be made by devs and infrastructure folk.
 Who are they made by
 i don't see why they shouldn't be
 @Stereofont, well it never will if people are constantly worried about being an ios challenger
 @UniversalSuperBox, the whole idea of "devs don't understand marketing/design/whatever" trope is quite tiresome
 We need to know roughly where we are headed, in order to decide how we get there
 @dohbee, I understand what is good design and marketing, but not how to make them happen.
 @dohbee, It is more that with an increase in scale, some differentiation of roles becomes inevitable
 @UniversalSuperBox, well, people learn, and nobody said a single dev has to make the decision alone
 but saying devs shouldn't make the decision at all is nonsense
 Many companies are messed up because marketing call the shots, not the engineers
 @Stereofont, yes, but that doesn't invalidate input from one of the groups. even with separate design and development teams, devs and designers still need to work closely together
 @Stereofont, But many are messed up because the opposite happened.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Touché 😁
 it's a very tight venn diagram, that one
 We all need to stop collaborate and listen
 And we're here to solve real problems that comes with having real distributed people working on them
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 @dohbee, And please @profetik777 stop making your arguments bold. my eyes hurt
 @UniversalSuperBox, haha. i had to read that twice. first time i read "disturbed"
 @dohbee, Not incorrect, mind you
 @Flohack, Lol. You got it.
 I don't want to seem like I'm beating a dead horse, but I really do want to know. @profetik777, who makes marketing decisions?
 The head of Marketing
 Freedr01d
 Nevermind my root passwort.
 which is  @wayneoutthere
 There should be a marketing director that works closely w devs bc I agree that places where marketing makes the shots are stupid. But noticed what I mentioned. Bottlenecks occur when devs micro manage decision making and filters what is good vs bad ideas
 So, I could no lean back and say "Please address all marketing ideas to wayne!"
 @Flohack, In consultation with the head of the other divisions
 Yes! Lol
 @profetik777, Wayne is the head of marketing, what do you need more?
 Too late
 @IGNNE, You should still change your password just in case. :)
 just did. I really need to keep an eye on which window has focus :-/
 Happens to the best of us.
 @profetik777 for me the only way to go is, you apply for the Marketing team and join. But you did this already, right? And what exactly was the reason you left again?
 For you and others to get out of his way if he wants to test an idea. Or give some person a chance on a mini project. But I digress @wayneoutthere is director? Meaning he can change things in the website or is that ewald? Bc then Wayne is just a coordinator then if he doesnt have director in his title
 @Flohack, Its on the forum. But your glad to read it since it seems like you might have missed that point.
 Or two.
 @profetik777, Forget the website for the moment please, that is heavily under construction
 You're missing each other here
 We will not comment on the webiste for the moment
 The question was: Can Wayne implement a strategy if he thinks that it's the best possible way to go?
 And if he cant touch the website then he is no director
 Oh yeah, he can touch the website.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Well I made an org chart today, and there he is staffing this positition, so the answer is yes. Maybe not now, today, but soon
 that's a weird statement
 anyone can touch the web site
 does that make me marketing director too?
 He can change the website
 Cmon, a director is not editing the web site himself
 so can i. the source is on github
 If he must, of course
 @dohbee, No.... that one is not...
 ubuntu-touch.io is, though
 @dohbee, Weeeell not entirely with our shiny CMS
 ok well, whatever
 odoo 😃
 someone will have to make a merge proposal of it at some point
 Uh, come on man, the cool kids call it a Pull Request nowadays
 @UniversalSuperBox, I might miss @profetik777 but so far I did not take care for Marketing issues, its not my area of influence ;)
 @dohbee, Still so bazaarish
 Very bizarre way of speaking, isn't it?
 Merge Proposal sounds like arranged wedding IMHO
 pull request sounds like you need to hit the buzzer to open a door
 @dohbee, PULL! good boy!
 or like i'm falling off a bridge and like "hey! why don't you pull me up off this thing so i don't die, maybe?"
 I think that is where we miss eachother. If he said I needed these embedd codes here and here and here to track conversion of social media links vs email blast links Could he do it without the equivalent I'd a United nations tribunal question dissecting it and waiting 3 months for it ?
 and then Linus is all "i've seen babies write better code"
 and then you're smacking against the rocks below
 and wtf telegram
 I'm going to set up a developer enviornment today and wonder if this is still a good guide to do so
 @profetik777, The point of community is that we do not have only 1 or 2 decision makers. Heck the whole community is begging for more democratic and open decision making process, yet again a handful of people should decide? This wont work out
 https://github.com/Gizra/KnowledgeBase/wiki/Ubuntu-and-development-environment-setup
 So if everyone here wants to have his view respected things will take months, yes.
 @alan_morford, Developing on an Ubuntu desktop?
 Yes
 @Flohack, Okay so bingo. Soon. You spoke w certainty and now back tracking. Which is it and when ?
 @Flohack, or rather, things will never happen
 design by committee == bikeshedding
 @profetik777, Eh?
 Lost in translation
 here, i'll make it easy
 @Flohack, That he was director. But then saying he will be. Soon.
 i shall henceforth be the supreme arbiter of decisiosn
 All hail @dohbee
 @profetik777, No I said he will soon have the possibility to implement his strategy. But we need to clear a few initial things out of the way for him
 @dohbee, I bow myself in front
 He is the marketing directory
 @UniversalSuperBox, directory lol
 the typo was better dalton
 you saw nothing
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/NDt0BgZi/file_3344.webp
 lel
 @Flohack, Subsegments of community are better suited than others. That is my point.
 So... those inclined to marketing should make decisions on marketing
 @UniversalSuperBox, yes
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1UAOv4qhII
 @alan_morford, Hmm, we aren't really a support group for the Ubuntu desktop.
 Just Ubuntu Touch
 @UniversalSuperBox, I thought click packages are the same on both?
 @alan_morford, It doesn't mention a click anywhere on the page you linked?
 damn
 @profetik777, Its like in a modern democracy, if politic parties demand more direct democracy tools for the wide public, they just want to push their agenda. Representation is the key to better qualified, faster decision making
 @Flohack, Are you sure you sound pretty passionate about it. Did you apply yet to marketing ?
 @UniversalSuperBox, Well, Sir, do you mind pointing me to the "set up a click package dev environment for UT" documentation link?
 @alan_morford, Sure, I think I have one near...
 I'm obviously looking in the wrong place
 https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/appdev/index.html
 Ta-daaa!
 :)
 @Flohack, We need a blockchain
 @UniversalSuperBox, bingo
 @Flohack, I think you use that analogy too loosely friend. And I'll k … Leave it to community to point out how. Gotta run. @UniversalSuperBox talk soon? Or no?
 @UniversalSuperBox, Thanks
 @profetik777, I think I'll let you have the last word in the forum thread, since it's derailed
 @profetik777, I am not a fan of being in all committees, so no. You probably will not see me in Marketing. I trust the guys there to take the right decisions. And I cant involve myself everywhere. Its enought to be Infra guy, maintaining Telegram App and being Board member
 Conference call is open invitation to all! Esp you @Flohack.  Unless our new blockchain overlord has a prob w that
 @profetik777, Was this blockchain overlord directed to me?
 @Flohack, I think that is sometbing we can agree on. This was fun. Have a great one folks
 @Flohack, No, dohbee.
 @UniversalSuperBox, +1
 I go back drawing org charts... I need a break from that much motivation and 300 messages to read
 Yikes.
 Be well.
 By the way, no one complained for a long time that we dont talk more about Purism Libre5 :)
 @Flohack, complaint that you haven't talked more about the Librem 5
 @UniversalSuperBox, *shaming mode on*
 Guys i have taken my time to read all the thread of messages and two individuals in my books just make loads of noise
 @lastdon82, Welcome to a group of 1100 people. Excuse the dust, this we cannot avoid
 Profetik777 and Rodney
 I mean, we all make a lot of noise
 there is a reason why this a community not not a company
 opinions will always differ
 @lastdon82, Agree. But lets not forget we value @dohbee ´s opinions, he is Ex-Canonical and has a lot of insight on processes and how not to do it
 but they reality is there smart people among us that have devouted time to work on this
 And we dont want to do the same mistakes
 @Flohack, Florian i have two companies and a sponsor
 i am a mining engineer
 just love programming and privacy
 @dohbee, When will ubuntu device flash be available to install and use it well in actual Ubuntu versions?
 i applaude what you lot have done
 @f3j88, Works now
 And I value feedback on how we are working together. Good, targeted feedback that we can take action on.
 @dohbee, Except in 17.10
 i believe the key developers should make the decision
 the community can give feedback
 we all would want to have something that we love  to have on our phones
 but majority will always carry the vote
 i bet most people agree with the developers decision
 @lastdon82, Be careful, I would not underwrite it
 @Flohack, most people are silence because they know you lot are doing the right thing
 But if someone is speaking up, there are probably at least ten more with the same opinion
 @UniversalSuperBox, agree
 but the problem is they are just stating their feelings with no tangible solution
 I don't think that feedback is a bad thing. I do think that trying to beat around the bush and posting walls of text that only roughly fit together to make a coherent point is.
 Why do I want to be in a conference call? Why is the decision that we made wrong?
 What is the incorrect decision?
 And by the way, I see no difference in discussing this in Telegram, in a forum or via mailing list. The outcome is the same, just the time delay differs
 @UniversalSuperBox, Feedback can either be good or bad depending on the one at the receiving end
 @UniversalSuperBox, To this point, I've been posting walls of text that only roughly fit together. I'm part of the problem!
 all i am pointing out is i realised some people are constantly on the negative end which shouldn't be so
 there are some good decisions taht have been made
 @UniversalSuperBox, That is a gentleman because you can take up fault but will others do so?
 I think that once posts start hitting ~300 words, all sides start to check out and go on the defensive
 Which is exactly what I did.
 we can critise but also applaud
 It wasn't about trying to discuss the best marketing strategy at that point.
 @UniversalSuperBox, that is human nature but kindly read threads from yesterday some individuals have been critising contantly
 Anyway. Thank you for the support.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Marketing in my books is not the issue in todays world
 there are lot of means to get the word out
 we just have to focus on getting UBtouch ready for the lay man if need be
 @lastdon82, Well it is if you want to reach a certain audience. There are sensible walls you need to push through. Nerds and tech-savy people will react immediately to our project, but we want also to reach other layers of users
 @Flohack, I believe that is already happening. Most people on here fall into the category of Nerds and Tech-savy
 @dohbee, Guessing that the question is about 16.04. At the moment, okay for a look but not ready for use. Be patient. Not a very long time to wait
 to the average user we are not there yet
 that is what we should focus on
 Each one of you shoul write your plan in 3 pages of text.
 @lastdon82, yeah sure. But it will level off
 @Cesar_Herrera, Do I get scores or marks also ? 😆
 :)
 No, to the average user we aren't there... And getting there is bumpy, because 'average users' have different expectations
 @Flohack, 😂
 @UniversalSuperBox, that is whay you lot are working hard to get anbox on here to attract people
 i know people who just care abt whatsapp and phone call
 Defining the 'average user' is also hard
 @lastdon82, Among those, yes. Also the windows/mac/linux GUI installer. Nerds wont need that
 if what's app works they will buy lol
 @Flohack, i agree
 My wife loves my Meizu
 she is just an average user who loves privacy
 @lastdon82, But she would not get appealed to ubuntu-device-flash 😆
 Just installed 16.04 Dev on my OnePlus one... Keyboard won't appear... Any fix for this
 @Flohack, she will reference you to virus she gets on her windows PC 😂
 she will rather flas her phone anyday  than to let Google take her pictures and data
 Huh
 my mates are waiting on you lot
 @dohbee, Someone wanted you to be our blockchain nerd. Sign here plz.
 Blockchains are dumb.
 lol
 Okay... crosses out name
 Lol
 @xreactx, It is bleeding edge, not ready for use. So 'fixes' are not quite on the agenda yet
 Ahh, that sucks.
 For the record i will keep sponsoring and hope everyone will be happy
 Thank you
 @UniversalSuperBox, no thank you
 MarioGrip make any progress on the OnePlus 5?
 @lastdon82, We appreciate that. And go to Github and upvote issues. Thats really smth we want the community to do
 @Flohack, I will do so Florian Cheers
 @xreactx, He's been fixing that Xenial thing you were just talking about
 @xreactx, It is still being built, so 'bug reporting ' doesn't mean a lot. If bits are missing, it is because they haven't been made yet 😎
 @Flohack, You're prioritizing bugs based on likes?
 @xreactx, Porting is on halt in the foundation until 16.04 is out
 @dohbee, The community wants more influence on what we should do. So lets try this ;)
 @dohbee, Not soley, but does Canonical take "This bug affects me"'s into account when triaging?
 I'm currently attempting to Port SFOS for the OnePlus 5, GUI starts up but WLAN doesn't work
 @xreactx, Please join Halium chat ^^
 He's there
 He's been a ghost when I try to message him
 @UniversalSuperBox, Not generally. It's part of a more complex metric
 @xreactx, He is super-mega busy with creating stuff
 @dohbee, So you take the metric that it generates into account. That's "heat", no?
 @Stereofont, I know, but it's been months since I got ahold of him
 @xreactx, Please spread your issues with all the devs in the Halium group, those are the main porters right now
 Dont stick with a single person, its more efficient to talk to a lot of ppl
 I'm on the SFOS porters IRC channel
 @UniversalSuperBox, Heat is more than me too though. Me toos don't affect it as much as other things, and is only part of what's taken into account for prioritizing. Gaming it is not so easy
 Only one other person porting to an MSM8998 device with the same issue
 And by the way, Marius gets 20 pings per minute so he got most notifications disabled @xreactx
 @xreactx, I can understand your frustration but if he tried to deal with his Inbox, UBports would collapse
 @Flohack, @Stereofont
 I understand he's busy, that's why I message him for last resort things that I cannot figure out
 @dohbee, I see. I think I read the wiki page on that a while back. That's what I mean, me too's are only part of the decision making
 @xreactx, Everybody does that. Its something he needs to protect himself a bit. We are not superhumans ;)
 @Flohack, I disagree, you guys are definitely superhumans
 Flattery will get you nowhere
 Haha, not trying to get anywhere with that...
 Anyway, I need to take a break for a bit. Go out in the -14C weather.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Celsius?
 Well, -14 Kelvin isn't possible
 @dohbee, Fahrenheit I meant lol
 Those aren't S.I. though
 @dohbee, Dalton is US citizen, so we need to give him extra love for converting it to metric 😆
 Lol
 @dohbee, Well said
 @UniversalSuperBox, Even weller said
 @Flohack, Says who, Lol??
 @wayneoutthere, My orgchart speaks to me
 (Sticker, 272x512) https://irc.ubports.com/jWI6MaAg/file_3345
 @lastdon82, Well developers decide priorities and feasability, but I can understand they sometimes dont have the perspective of the ordinary user ;)
 @Flohack, How did this happen ? ..and while I'm in frozen forest with nearly no connection at that !
[22:30] <tgBot> dasbjo was added by: dasbjo
 @Flohack, Gotcha
 @wayneoutthere, Ice fishing?
 @wayneoutthere, We waited for you being offline ^^
 @dasbjo, Welcome Bjo! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @Flohack, Good use of time. Need people in their places then ways to communicate well. Good job
 @UniversalSuperBox, You said it yourself why ? We literally covered this which is why you said this is something could be discussed?
[22:36] <tgBot> FredriKempe was added by: FredriKempe
 @FredriKempe, Welcome Fredrik! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 Oh and btw Fredrik we have a Scandinavian group, amongst many others!
 @Flohack, And I've seen people get shut down in telegram when things went on too long.
 Hence the forum post.
 @profetik777, We also banned people from the forum already. Its sometimes necessary
 Not exactly the same thing, and also irrelevant to the discussion
 oki
 @profetik777, B ut we dont shut people down because they express their opinion
 I did, it was the wrong action to take. I discussed with him after the fact
 I think everyone is quite tired at this point.  Better to take it up again when people are refreshed
 @lastdon82, Kind of... We have to cut through ice on lake to get water for dishes...and such. Nice strategy.  hows my east coast brother from another mother ? I guess you are used to snow and ice... Minus 14 here and bout 30cm snow. Internet works bout 2hrs per day...love it
 @wayneoutthere, It is currently - 9 and I have about 40cm of snow to clear on my deck
 Heading to a cottage tomorrow in Quebec
 @UniversalSuperBox, Forget the offer for conference call. Seems like you guys just want to pretend you want to learn more and get better.
 (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/WVDnMCYh/file_3346
 No need to worry about forum posts breaking things down in specific examples. You guys are jokers. Playing a role as hobbyist tryimg to feel like your professionals.
 The team is awesome.
 Who do you think u r?
 @profetik777, Why are you so angry dude?
 Yeah the team that just told you are director witjout speaking with you right
 You show up with all the answers?
 I think what we want right now is not to be harangued
 @lastdon82, Fall back you just walked into this
 @profetik777, Do you want to be a Director?
 @profetik777, No that is your mistake...some of us have been around longer but just watch rather
 Bc I friggin care about getting my damn ubuntu touch phone ! Thats why!
 lol
 Lol
 Sheesh
 So take a ticket
 @profetik777, seems like you are the one wanting them to pretend to be a big business here
 And we will get there
 We will have a great 2018
 See you all there
 Nope. But its alright. No one wants to read posts to understand where I was coming from.  But they pretend they to do that too hence comments like
 @dohbee, This
 it would help if your posts were concise and explained where you were coming from, instead of simply being long monologues where you contradict Florian and Dalton
 (Sticker, 392x512) https://irc.ubports.com/EIBoME6u/file_3347
 Yeah okay. Point it out. Prove it. Quote it.
 i tried to read your posts. i can't. they are not easy to follow at all. it's hard enough to tell whether it's your words, or words you're quoting.
 Where ?
 hold on, my video is going a bit wonky, i need to reboot
 This is just a waste of time.  Its a passion project for you guys and its cool just come out ans call it what it is.
 And dont protend you want help.
 Y'all love it where it is
 Good. Then move on to your pro projects. We were having fun here sir
 Yessir marketing director!
 No need to call us amateurs. We are enjoying our progress and scaling fine
 @profetik777, Can you kindly state what exactly you not liking because i can't figure it from your thread?
 @profetik777, Is the title bothering you or you think you can do a better job?
 Just voice it out
 @profetik777, Dang! I like that. Say it again
 Devs shouldnt be bottlenecks for domains they are not experts in. They should be the compass. Not the gps.
 (Sticker, 272x512) https://irc.ubports.com/KRyHfEPs/file_3345
 And that is it.
 @profetik777, you still talking in parables or maybe i am not smart enough to catch up
 Omg. Lol. Nm. Dont worry about it
 @profetik777, the posts in the forum thread
 @profetik777, You are really all ove rthe place
 structure your case and spill it
 @dohbee, Quote where I lost you. Otherwise. You can stop pretendjng you havs a point
 you don't understand what "your posts are too large and difficult to follow" means?
[23:03] <tgBot> tsimonq2 was added by: tsimonq2
 @lastdon82, Responding to @Flohack. So if its all over the place you'll have to thank him for that.
 i mean, it's not a metaphor or anything
 @tsimonq2, lol
 Don't worry.  I want to instead say I love you all and with positions and delegation we will be able to overcome even....a bottleneck
 @JoeRess, Right?
 Wuss poppin'?
 @profetik777, Kindly summarise it and let us understand
 I hereby declare war against bottlenecks!
 Here here !
 Amen
 Preach
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/YKCn90sY/file_3348
 @wayneoutthere, bloody coastal elites!
 So, what's the tl;dr of the past hour? Seems like you guys have been busy :)
 hheheheh
 Down with all hindrances to progress.
 Oh? :)
 Mr. Q. Are you a bottleneck?
 @dohbee, They seemed pretty easy to me. 🤔 I don't have a horse in the race, but I do speak English. 🤷
 Ththose mailing lists....
 @wayneoutthere, Are you talking to me or Marius Quabeck? His stage name is "Mister Q" :P
 Oooops
 @tsimonq2, No u. :P
 Mr. Quigley I did mean
 lol
 Haha and when we were finally hoping this topic would calm down right now, Simon and Schyken will keep it hot until tomorrow ^^
 I'm not a bottleneck... I think? :)
 (Sticker, 448x512) https://irc.ubports.com/0JUew9nk/file_3349
 @Flohack, Nahh, Schyk and I are buds 😉
 @Schyken, Perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us with a reasonable summary of whatever point it was that @profetik777 was trying to make, then?
 Do you have a bottle? How about a neck?
 @Flohack, Aw yeah, like a chicken fryer. <3 @tsimonq2  😏😂
 @wayneoutthere, I have a neck but no bottle
 @Schyken, :D
 @wayneoutthere, Isn't that a cup? 🤔
 Then..you shall be spared
 @wayneoutthere, 5 bottles left in the fridge, but they're warm weather beers
 @profetik777, I can cool you down, there is not a single dev sitting in the Marketing team. Why you think devs do these decisions?
 or "longnecks" if you will
 @wayneoutthere, What's the context of the bottleneck comment?
 Guys I need some tech advice. My desktop has a 1st gen i3 (540) and 4GB of RAM. It has a pretty fast SSD but I feel like it could be faster
 @JoeRess, Does it support NVME?
 @tsimonq2, Y'all better not have been fighting cracks whip
 Can you please help me find the bottleneck?
 oooohhhhh
 @JoeRess, KEK
 @UniversalSuperBox, surely not
 :D
 Elaborate setup ftw
 @JoeRess, how tall is your building?
 @dohbee, Did you measure with a barometer?
 3 storeys
 @UniversalSuperBox, Imperial or Metric?
 @Flohack, Metric, of course. Only stupid Americans would use Imperial
 oh wait
 Could we maybe do a conference call to discuss this?
 oh, only three stories is not tall enough
 Well I can surely find the bottleneck of lnl. If you need help with that
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/0hJ1ttJ0/file_3350
 Lol
 you need a pretty tall building to be able to get the PC to terminal velocity
 @profetik777, Go ahead...free world init?
 @dohbee, It has a pretty big case so that should help
 @JoeRess, Depends if you throw it in portrait or landscape mode
 @JoeRess, mass is irreelvant
 Good point well made
 @dohbee, Size isn't though
 @profetik777, lolwat
 no, it creates wind resistance, so will slow it down
 @tsimonq2, Wrong on many levels my friend
 @dohbee, It will reach terminal velocity quicker if it's bigger
 @Flohack, @dohbee
 @JoeRess, no, mass is irrelevant
 @Flohack, yes, both of those will cause equal wind resistance :P
 @dohbee, That's why I will load it with lead weights
 @JoeRess, Nope, that's momentum not acceleration
 @JoeRess, still irrelevent
 @dohbee, I hate physics!
 all you will get from more mass, is a larger impact crater
 I really think a conference call would help clear this up
 Im out for bed ^^ have a good one
 i'm pretty sure Galileo cleared it up ~430 years ago
 @Flohack, Yep. Warm milk. G'night
 Figaro
 Magnifico
 @tsimonq2, Prove it
 @dohbee I got so close! Launchpad account, SSH key, set up clickable via https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/appdev/clickable/setup.html and then ran into the following...
 @profetik777, i drink, therefore i am.
 (Photo, 899x194) https://irc.ubports.com/92DFrd5S/file_3352.jpg
 @alan_morford, No, clickable is not click itself...
 you didn't really need an lp account or ssh key either, i guess :)
 Maybe join the OpenStore group. That's where a lot of discussion about app dev happens. open.uappexplorer.com/telegram
 @dohbee, ha well the last couple hours of research don't FEEL wasted
 @alan_morford, No, because now you have an SSH key and a Launchpad account!
 exactly
 @dohbee, Bibo ergo sum
 @profetik777, Projects are *nothing* without developers (think long and hard about that). They should be the project leads and delegate what they can't do. They *need* to be the GPS and where they themselves don't know a particular area well, should delegate. … I know firsthand that open source projects led by marketing people turn out to be shit unless the marketer is a developer because the marketing people (most of the time) don't know what it
[23:26] <tgBot> to actually reasonably *implement* the stuff. So developers *need* to be the GPS otherwise things will get impractical...
 @UniversalSuperBox, ok I joined I'll post my screenshot and question there. thanks
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/qMFBqb8h/file_3354.mp4
 WHOOOAAAA, AAAAAAAH!
 @tsimonq2, "Be a beacon."
 (crap, i'm showing my age with that)
 @JoeRess, He led operations and operating systems development at one point, he knew what it took, he wasn't just marketing.
 (Sticker, 382x512) https://irc.ubports.com/a0ByYlwI/file_3355
 So yeah @profetik777 what kind of experience do you have to back your point up?
 I'm the Release Manager for a major Linux distribution and on the Release Team for another
 Simon, man, I love you. What a boy.
 @Schyken, Love you too m8 :)
 :p
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/0qfvPJ1A/file_3356
 @lastdon82, https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute and put the slider to "Community projects" 😉 … Or … https://kubuntu.org/contribute-to-kubuntu/ … Lubuntu doesn't have a donation option yet, but that's pending. … 😉😉😉😉😉
 Oooh, slide right into that sponsorship
 😉
 Well played, Quigley
 Ah. Bragging rights on a Friday night....this community needs this like a dose of tapeworms
 @tsimonq2, I support UBport
 @tsimonq2, That was sliiiiick
 @tsimonq2, Anyways my point is here that @profetik777 probably doesn't know what the hell he's talking about if he keeps starting shit and saying "prove it"
 Like, seriously lame
 All hail the Supreme Arbiter
 @AndyBleaden, Hehehehe :)
 I am just happy to see someone else throw a bit of punches lol
 @lastdon82, Awesome! Keep doing that, I totally support what UBPorts is doing :D
 @dohbee, 😉
 @tsimonq2, you have earned it
 @tsimonq2, Looks at join message
 hmmmm
 :P
 @lastdon82, Well it's not as much of that as much as I call bullshit when I see it
 @UniversalSuperBox, hehehe what about it? :)
 @tsimonq2, i think this whole conversation happened because i called it bullshit :P
 @dohbee, Well then thank you.
 Some of us run our own companies and have the experience. Yet we still learn each day. i can comprehend individuals who make so much noise yet can get to a point
 @lastdon82, Right
 I never claimed I'm Superman
 most importantly don't have any solution
 (And I'm not, quite frankly)
 @tsimonq2, not at you at all
 But I'm wanting to help here, given that I have experience :)
 Solution is good old volunteer hours of WORK. No secret sauce.
 Profiet777 made loads of noise yet didn't get him
 @wayneoutthere, exactly!
 @lastdon82, (If I had to choose BTW, I'd have a Batman costume with Superman's powers, Superman's costume is lame and Batman's powers are lame, let's combine 'em)
 Action not words i believe
 Righr
 Exactly
 So talking shit takes us nowhere
 I could drink warm espresso without a mic but I choose to audiocast with a mic
 As does having  the last word
 @tsimonq2, damn right
 Superman and Batman are both whiney brats
 @dohbee, I agree, but yeah, I went off on a bit of a tangent there 😉
 :P
 Hard dirty work but someone must do it
 Now who will get last word?
 Me. Thats right
 nope
 @wayneoutthere, It depends, are we building a wall still? Or is that cancelled?
 :3
 :3
 it's a virtual wall
 I like this
 cyberwall 3000
 Registers GitHub organization
 @wayneoutthere, If you guys need help with project management or anything of that sort I'd be happy to lend a hand … I'm not skilled much in the area of UBPorts development, because @mariogrip hasn't yet finished a Samsung port :P
 I will sponsor and also help with spreading the word.
 @UniversalSuperBox does more than an excellent job of project  management
 Will get more apps in the Openstore as well
 @AndyBleaden, We appreciate it!
 @AndyBleaden, Heheh, a lot of that work is actually @neothethird
 As does @Flohack a d @mariogrip and @neothethird
 Same!
 @UniversalSuperBox so are you running the 16.04 build with the qt 5.9/etc fancy bits?
 No, but I'm trying to make it work right on Halium
 So... it's broken
 for me
 ah
 @tsimonq2, Oh I thought this was a meritocracy?
 lol
 No just kidding. But I was busy
 doing this....
 https://youtu.be/5Um-SLBk4VA
 if you want to talk about these things @tsimonq2 great, but im coming from the context of our original discussion
 (Sticker, 336x512) https://irc.ubports.com/dzLADYin/file_3346
 @profetik777, It is. Duh. 😉 And I've contributed to both projects I'm in the Release Team of the most.
 @profetik777, this is below the belt honestly
 @tsimonq2, (well, debatable with Kubuntu, but I've put my foot down there)
 in case some of you need to put on .5 speed
 don't want to lose anyone lol
 @profetik777, Stop talking shit with no basis
 That was uncalled for
 Stop it.
 Now.
 wait, that means i do get to be supreme arbiter then!
 https://appear.in/randomircshow - come and get simon.
 oh wow, so you're an asshole. very meritorious.
 lets have a friendly debate
 @dohbee, He is mental and a wanker
 simon.....you there?
 That's not helping either.
 People.
 Keep it civil.
 @profetik777, Yep.
 im having fun at this point....
 @profetik777, Friendly?
 there is a link for you
 @tsimonq2, If you wanna talk over webcam I'll be more than happy to do it. … Just let me in.
 @Gorsh2, i was until the link for youtube popped up. He taking the piss
 lol, the one where you called everyone in the community a baby who can't understand your stupid posts?
 @profetik777, There are over 1000 people here not having fun because of you. Please think about that.
 @lastdon82, this.
 (Photo, 1280x533) https://irc.ubports.com/y4XL2wwy/file_3358.jpg
 @lastdon82, Regardless. I didn't even read what the debate is/was about.
 @tsimonq2, Are you in the Matrix?
 @dohbee, All plugged in
 If you're sure you have the high ground (I have no idea, but I'll trust), don't waste it by name-calling.
 @Gorsh2, My bad...Just lost it for a minute. It has been tough trying not t le it out
 NP
 @dohbee, No?
 @tsimonq2, The background