[16:04] * slangasek waves [16:04] \o [16:04] #startmeeting [16:04] Meeting started Thu Jan 4 16:04:36 2018 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:04] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [16:04] o/ [16:04] [TOPIC] Lightning round === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round [16:05] $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther) [16:05] bdmurray rcj Odd_Bloke sil2100 infinity tribaal cyphermox slangasek mwhudson doko xnox fginther tdaitx philroche rbalint [16:05] bdmurray: hello [16:05] email catch up and review [16:05] SRU verified unattended-upgrades for Z, A (LP: #1269177) [16:05] pinged / discussed with SRU team about apport security regression (LP: #1733366) [16:05] Launchpad bug 1269177 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Bionic) "Running 'unattended-upgrades --dry-run' reboots the machine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1269177 [16:05] Launchpad bug 1733366 in Apport "apport crashed with FileNotFoundError in is_container_pid(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/proc/11102/ns/pid'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1733366 [16:05] uploaded fix for u-r-u Prompt=normal bionic bug (LP: #1740523) [16:05] tested LP: #1718497 - it's fine [16:05] modifications to apport to speed it up [16:05] arranged travel to sprint [16:05] Launchpad bug 1740523 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "Prompt value is set to "normal" instead of "lts" after upgrading to 18.04" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740523 [16:05] Launchpad bug 1718497 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "checkFreeSpace says it checks /var but may not really" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718497 [16:05] ✔ done [16:05] rcj: [16:05] * vacation [16:05] * catch up from vacation [16:05] (done) [16:06] * HIGHLIGHT: HAPPY NEW YEAR [16:06] * Uhh... [16:06] (done) [16:06] tribaal: [16:06] * Vagrant SRU changes for the xenial image under way! Waiting for verification. [16:06] * Partner work. [16:06] * Too much to eat, too much to drink, family time [16:06] (done) [16:07] * happy new year [16:07] * looking at build failures in bionic (avahi, a couple others) [16:07] * tracking BIOS-breaking kernel issue [16:07] * discussions around nvidia packaging for GPU computing [16:07] * the embargo is broken and everything is on fire [16:07] (done) [16:07] doko: [16:08] - prepared and started test rebuilds [16:08] - now evaluating GCC and binutils regressions [16:08] - some MIRs and NEW processing [16:08] (done) [16:08] xnox: [16:08] fixing migrations/tests => systemd migrated all by itself [16:08] working on s390-tools v2+ upgrade [16:08] libsecommp update released, thank you all [16:08] working on fixing s390x cloud-test-framework failures [16:08] catch up on systemd upstream work + discussions [16:08] (done) [16:09] fginther: [16:09] * Image build system vanguard. [16:09] * Implementing some jenkins job cleanup. [16:10] (done) [16:10] * Ate all the mince pies [16:10] * Cloud image boot speed testing [16:10] (done) [16:10] (short week) [16:10] * livecd-rootfs changes [16:10] * internal testbed setup [16:10] * Debian: [16:10] - kodi new upstream & bug gardening [16:10] - libcec upload for GCC transition [16:10] - first release of debian-dad [16:10] (done) [16:11] rbalint: which GCC transition? [16:13] GCC-7 [16:13] #853485 [16:14] this is now fixed in unstable [16:14] rbalint: ah, so this was FTBFS in Ubuntu w/ gcc-7 up to now? [16:14] and fixed via Debian upload [16:15] any other questions re: status [16:15] ? [16:16] * sil2100 missed the meeting [16:16] sil2100: want to give your status now? :) [16:19] I could, but I don't have it ready! Let me prepare it and paste [16:22] - Regular SRU reviews/releases [16:22] - Looking at some NBS packages (lib64expat1, poking gitweb for lynx-cur) [16:22] - ubuntu-image: [16:22] * Investigating autopkgtest failures on bionic armhf - hard to investigate [16:22] * Fixing new PEP-8 issue in bionic [16:22] - Preparing new google-cloud-sdk [16:22] - Other stuff [16:22] (done) [16:22] Oh, and I was syncing up regarding the xenial HWE stack [16:24] ok, any other questions on status? [16:24] nope [16:25] [TOPIC] Bugs === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs [16:26] [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs [16:27] anything needing triage here? [16:27] bug 1739531? [16:27] bug 1739531 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-collect SHOULD NOT collect gnome-shell command history and favorites" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739531 [16:28] huh [16:29] bdmurray: +1 for taking that one [16:30] okay, I'll target it to the release then [16:30] sorry, already did [16:30] any others? [16:30] nothing else new per se [16:31] [TOPIC] AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [16:31] anything else today? [16:31] bug 1738517 is a duplicate and I'll sort that out [16:31] bug 1738517 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager does not expand details on progress on 17.10 & 18.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738517 [16:31] merges ... [16:31] we have a lot ones still assigned to former team members [16:32] please could we assign these to current team members? [16:32] i'm in for that [16:33] doko: which ones do you mean? are they ones the team owns (foundations-bugs listed on https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)? [16:33] well, ba rry, cj watson, ... [16:33] what /packages/ do you mean [16:33] I don't have a list [16:33] yes, owner is foundations-bugs [16:33] barry's name is only on aptdaemon; we would preferably be migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it [16:34] Is there even anything to merge with that? [16:35] it's only in oldstablle (per rmadison) [16:36] doko: so, we need tooling to show people what work is yet to be done. do you want to fix grep-merges to work by subscribing team name? [16:37] doko, slangasek: how about about a blog post on planet.ubuntu.com calling for everyone to mark their merges if they want to work on them with a two weeks timeout? [16:37] I can try to do that, but it would be low priority for me before I vanish at the end of next week [16:37] for two weeks [16:38] rbalint: I don't think that's the problem; we're talking about packages that have been unmerged for some time already, and core-devs should always feel free to grab them with an advisory ping to the person who touched it last [16:38] slangasek, "migrating from aptdaemon to packagekit, not merging it" -> is that hapeening? [16:39] slangasek: i would do a broadcast ping then pick everything unmarked [16:40] ugh, blogging about a team task? [16:40] I don't think that buys us anything as a process to have a one-time ping [16:42] slangasek: we would not have to ping people individually and may raise awareness for the merges if we mention universe as well [16:42] rbalint: you are free to do this, but I don't think you want to blog about this repeatedly, and I don't think the problem doko is raising is a single point in time issue [16:44] anything else on this? [16:46] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:46] Meeting ended Thu Jan 4 16:46:59 2018 UTC. [16:46] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-01-04-16.04.moin.txt [16:47] thanks, folks! [16:53] Thanks! [17:27] wxl jose ahoneybun elopio o/ [17:32] here sorry [17:32] ah good [17:32] we were just discussing whether or not we're having it [17:32] so let's do it [17:32] one sec [17:32] the meeting? [17:32] meanwhile see agenda https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793 [17:33] thanks wxl [17:33] #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180104 [17:33] Meeting started Thu Jan 4 17:33:07 2018 UTC. The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [17:33] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180104 | Current topic: [17:33] as aforementioned, agenda is https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180104/2793 [17:33] thanks for preparing it wxl. [17:34] no problem [17:34] i'm a little rusty with meetingology so bear with me [17:34] if there's anything you want to add to the agenda, now's the time. get it in at the bottom [17:34] #topic Progress from last meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180104 | Current topic: Progress from last meeting [17:34] #subtopic wiki discussion [17:35] i believe elacheche (who is currently on the phone) and popey were going to start a discussion about the wiki. i haven't seen anything on the hub yet. [17:36] perhaps someone else might want to start the discussion and then they can join in later? [17:36] Yeah, it's not happened yet. I'll ping elacheche when they're around and we'll kick it off now the holidays are over [17:36] I wouldn't feel confident starting this discussion. Looking at how popey handled the hub, I'm happy to wait for when he's ready to start the wiki topic. [17:37] from what i read in the old notes, popey, it seems like you wanted to kind of provide an exhaustive history. maybe a simple summary might be a good place to start? [17:37] Sure [17:37] in any case, it's obviously tabled, so we'll just deal with it next time [17:38] i'll move on unless someone else has thoughts on this? [17:39] #action @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow [17:39] ACTION: @popey will produce a basic post on the Hub about the wiki, with a more extensive one to follow [17:39] #subtopic LoCo Council update [17:40] AFAIK nothing to tell here. I've watched over them a bit and they seem to be doing great. Had a huge number of re-verifications to deal with and dealt with them marvelously. [17:40] any questions? otherwise i'm moving on. [17:40] #subtopic 2018 Q1 events [17:41] this one's yours ahoneybun [17:41] wxl: maybe, just one action to invite them to the next meeting? Or the one in feb. [17:41] are we talking about conferences? or what? [17:41] elopio: to explicitly deal with some particular thing or just to hang out? [17:42] no, i think it's more about planning and announcing ubuntu events. let me dig through logs [17:42] I've just added an agenda item about LFNW. [17:42] wxl: just hang out. [17:42] #action @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out [17:42] ACTION: @wxl to invite LoCo Council to next meeting to hang out [17:43] are we planning more UbuCons or maybe one at LFNW with that new agenda item? [17:44] oh i'm sorry [17:44] this is UCADay [17:44] maybe? [17:44] wait [17:44] sorry this confusing :) [17:44] no that happened already [17:44] look here https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-20171207/2851 [17:45] there's an action item that mentions our next item and has you associated with it ahoneybun and also includes an item to "plan and list global evenets for the 2018 Q1" [17:45] so that may not actually be yours [17:45] ahhh [17:45] but it's not clear anyone actually owned that [17:46] looking at the logs https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-12-07-17.01.moin.txt [17:46] I think it's a group action [17:46] it seems there was a discussion about Global Jams, etc. [17:46] mine was the monthly community member highlight [17:46] yeah we'll get to that next :) [17:46] yay Global James [17:46] yep so [17:46] last time we discussed having a 'featured event of the quarter' [17:46] is there someone that can at least produce a list of all of teh potential events so we can start working on planning? [17:47] I don't have much since I've been out of it for life [17:47] that might be more managable [17:47] we can take them one at a time [17:47] basically, we'd source a list of events from the LC and then we'd work with the LC to make one of them the 'featured event of the quarter' [17:48] +1 featured events of the quarter [17:48] do we want to start that for Q1? or push it to Q2? [17:48] well i'm also thinking it's probably on our shoulders to announce the larger events [17:48] like Global Jam itself, for example [17:48] if we want to start it for Q1, does the LC have enough events or a global event we can feature? [17:48] UGJs are on the LC [17:48] ah and you mean events in general [17:49] such as Ubuntu Hours, install fests, general get togethers [17:49] personally, I would like to focus next on translations. [17:49] I can plan something for march or april, together with the locos. [17:49] ok well let's not jumble up too much here [17:50] yep, leaving planning aside [17:50] 1.- can the LC provide a list of global events happening soon [17:50] if not, then let's push it for Q2 [17:50] +1 [17:50] jose, would you get in touch with them and get a list? [17:50] if they can, 2.- let's discuss it in the meeting we'll have with them to figure out the featured event of the quarter [17:50] sure [17:51] now, ideally, we'd work on the Q2 event during Q1, Q3 during Q2, and so on [17:51] so we're a tad late, but we can make it work [17:51] ok [17:51] I'll get the gears moving on my side [17:51] #action @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature [17:51] ACTION: @jose to get the LoCo Council to provide a list of global events happening soon, with the goal of then having the CC picking an event to feature [17:52] does that wrap up this topic? [17:53] I'd say so [17:53] not much else we can do on it [17:53] ok [17:53] now it's time for ahoneybun :) [17:53] #subtopic monthly community member [17:53] floor's yours my friend! [17:53] I've been thinking fo the best way to vote for a community member [17:54] ooh voting. i like it. involve the community. [17:54] social might not be the best but it is reachable to more people then mailing list [17:54] ahoneybun: for january, I suggest we highlight the winners of the google code-in. [17:55] of course they're likely not members, so that might be a different thing [17:55] yea we can use jan to get together the voting with social media accounts [17:55] or do we mean community members (lowercase)? [17:55] oh, they have to be approved? [17:56] community members can be non-ubuntu members [17:56] like gnome or kde or other groups [17:56] ok yeah i didn't know what we meant [17:56] i hear "member" and i think "ubuntu member" [17:56] ^ same here [17:57] voting sounds weird to me. Like, whoever ends up in the second place will be a great contributor and yet she loses. [17:57] so i mean how DO we pick someone? [17:57] maybe, we can use social for nominations. And whoever is not selected for a month will be selected for the following one. [17:58] that could be a way [17:59] but eventually we'll have a long list of people to be nominated 'the following month' [17:59] yeah we'll have years' worth in a matter of days XD [17:59] nominate and pick random? [17:59] i think every month there needs to be a new set of nominations [18:00] no, we can sort them, depending on what we want to highlight that month [18:00] it might be good to ensure that we refer a wide range of different members [18:00] from different places, different contributions, different skills [18:01] i mean i don't want to see a year's worth of white male developers from the west [18:02] +1 [18:03] anyone have a problem with us selectively picking and choosing? [18:03] yea I would like to mix it with people from GNOME, KDE, Docs, [18:03] certainly different projects! [18:04] so who wants to orangize the call for people and collecting the list so we can then discuss who to pick? [18:06] I nominate ahoneybun for that task :) [18:06] i second that, should he be willing :) [18:06] I mean I can get into GNOME but not sure about KDE at this point [18:06] ? [18:06] ahoneybun: the idea would be to make a call for nomiations on the hub [18:07] well, at least the hub, if not other social networks [18:07] we can help you promotiing it, and ask it to be forwarded to the ubuntu social channels. [18:07] and each call should be a call to ask people to spread the word [18:07] I don't have social network access to Ubuntu stuff [18:07] ah [18:07] yeah, so just make a hub post. that's all. there you go. bite size :) [18:08] never used the hub before lol [18:08] also, it would be nice to get some artwork for the call. We can ask eylul, she might be interested to help [18:08] I can't make a new topic in Annoucements [18:09] just make it anywhere and ask popey to move it [18:09] +1 [18:09] There is an "uncategorized" area [18:10] I'm there XD [18:11] #action @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member. [18:11] ACTION: @ahoneybun to create a hub post call for nominations for monthly community member. [18:12] i think it needs to be clear in the post and in social media posts that nominations will ONLY be considered if they're a reply to the hub post [18:12] i think it's unreasonable to expect that we can monitor all the various different social media avenues [18:13] yeah, however there's a catch with that [18:13] people need to sign up for the hub, which might be discouraging for those who just want to nominate someone [18:14] we need to encourage people to sign up and use the hub, so +1 on wxl's suggestion [18:14] and do we make a call for nominations on the first week of each month? [18:14] but jose brings a valid point. let's also provide the option to send the nomination to the cc list? [18:15] again, I don't like pushing people to use the hub if they don't feel comfortable with it [18:15] especially if they need to sign up and provide information [18:15] i think encouraging it is not a bad thing [18:15] requiring it might be [18:15] we DO want to discourage using a reply on twitter, though, e.g. [18:16] I am happy requiring it. It's the new center of our community, if somebody wants to be in the community, she should be in the hub. [18:16] I think that might need further discussion [18:17] I am happy to discuss it too :) Topic for next meeting? [18:17] for now, let's offer only the two options (hub, cc list) with a preference towards the hub [18:17] sounds good to me [18:18] something like: "To be considered, nominations must be replies to the post on the Hub (or you can use the CC list if you must)" [18:19] and the topic for next meeting there is whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication? [18:19] or is this only within the context of this particular issue? [18:21] wxl: the former. [18:22] #action @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion [18:22] ACTION: @wxl to add an agenda topic to next meeting concerned whether or not we should consider the hub as the only source for communication, with @elopio and @jose heading up the dicussion [18:22] there [18:22] ok i'm going to move on unless there are other questions? [18:23] ahoneybun: just make sure to see our notes above about what qualifies as a valid nomination when you do the post. [18:23] still working on it as a text doc for right now [18:23] take your time [18:23] #subtopic Google Code-In update [18:23] we can make a pastebin or something to live edit [18:23] i assume this would be yours, elopio ? [18:24] i know i can tell you i've been BUSY with it personally as a mentor [18:25] after i fixed the Lubuntu QA tasks, balloons asked me to fix all of the other ones. being non-beginner tasks, we'll get a lot more of them, which is good [18:25] some comments on the IRC channel from students that are thankful for how much they've learned [18:25] lots of CoC signing and bugs reported on it (more about that later) [18:26] sorry. Um, yes, we have more than 500 tasks completed [18:26] i *STILL* have tasks to add [18:26] that's amazing. But it's a lot of work for the mentors, I'm happy that the contest ends soon. [18:26] me, too [18:26] the holidays were hard. lots of mentors gone. [18:27] the 15th is the deadline for claiming a new task deadline and the contest ends on the 17th [18:27] I will contact the participants for snapcraft to offer them follow up mentorships. More free form, to let them choose the path that they want to follow [18:27] i've been doing some encouraging in that regard, at least for Lubuntu and ISO testing/QA in general [18:28] to the other contributors for ubuntu in general, I think we need to encourage them to get in touch to their closest loco, sign the coc and participate on the hub. [18:28] I'll see if google can send me the emails of everybody who participated. [18:29] 579 is the official number btw [18:29] Wikimedia is at 575 [18:29] I would like to do something nice for the winners, so I will nominate them for contributors of the month on ahoneybun's post, as soon as they are announced. [18:29] We have another 20+ tasks to add. hopefully tomorrow [18:30] maybe invite them to ubuntu hour, or even get a short interview with them for insights. I'm not sure what's required for that last one, but we can see. [18:31] hm someone showed me an unoficial ranking [18:31] and now i can't find it [18:32] https://gci-leaders.netlify.com [18:32] also, we got a good bunch of new snaps packaged. I need to make a summary of that. And, a bunch of translations for the videos, I would like to keep working on this because there are many more languages to add. [18:32] we are ranked 7th for orgs [18:33] I asked stgraber if we could use this as an opportunity to get lxd translated, he agreed, we need to make a task for that [18:33] (out of 25) [18:33] popey: awesome, let me know if you need a hand with that. [18:33] i would encourage all of you whether mentors or not to reach out to your community and see if they have tasks to add. [18:33] elopio: i do! :D [18:34] #action EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks. [18:34] ACTION: EVERYONE to reach out to their community for any other ideas for Google Code-In tasks. [18:34] anything else? [18:34] elopio: would you have time to write the text in a doc (or directly in code-in) for a task for lxd? if so I can review and publish? [18:34] i know we have a couple of participants ready to take it [18:35] oh i guess i have one other thing [18:35] popey: let's talk after the meeting, because I don't know if this is for the docs, or for the strings in weblate [18:35] do we have any students that are waiting >24h for a reply? [18:36] elopio: i need to go afk after this meeting, but to answer your question, yes - it's weblate [18:37] popey: ok, I'll prepare the task. [18:37] Magic, thanks [18:38] nevermind answered my own question [18:38] we're good [18:38] moving on unless anything else.. [18:39] #subtopic report on why CC list is not moderated [18:39] this one is yours jose [18:39] I talked with a former CC member [18:40] basically, it's incredibly discouraging for a community member, especially one who gathered up the courage to email the cc and has a problem/concern, to get a 'your message is moderated' email [18:40] even if there's a message in there, it will not help the stingy feeling that you tried to contact the governing council and got temporarily silenced due to moderation [18:41] could we not change the mailman message so it says "we've received your request and will get back to you immediately?" [18:41] not sure, and that'd be on IS to push the change [18:41] plus, I haven't received any spam emails on the cc mailing list, at least not for a while [18:41] well i think mailman might expose that [18:41] jeez i get them all the time ugh [18:41] have you got any recently? [18:42] yeah [18:42] pretty much every day [18:42] admittedly, i can do some spam filtering, but then there's the likelihood of false positives [18:43] If you're using gmail you rarely see them [18:43] if you're on some other mail system, they often get through [18:43] yeah i'm not on Gmail [18:43] anyways, that's the reason why the CC mailing list isn't moderated, and I agree with those statements [18:44] another item that can be fixed by encouraging people to talk to us through the hub :D This is a magical hammer that fixes everything. [18:44] people need the ability to report in confidence [18:44] Not for private conversations [18:44] plus, again, it requires you to create an account [18:44] well on that topic flexiondotorg did you look into the possibility of using the hub as an entry point for the cc? [18:44] which adds a barrier for getting to us [18:45] which is potentially the same problem [18:45] I would put that one under a vote as well. we need to think out of all angles, and the hub just adds hassle and removes privacy [18:45] popey: there are private group chats, I've just noticed when somebody send a message to the two of us [18:48] well i'm not easily finding a solution to mailman [18:48] but i could propose it to IS [18:49] if we had a user-friendly moderation message, would anyone still have issues with turning moderation on? [18:49] I wouldn't like for it to be moderated again. it'd have to be super-duper-extremely friendly [18:49] otherwise, we just add friction to our communication flow [18:50] well it's probably all for naught but this is driving me nuts so i'll put it on my list [18:51] #action @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message [18:51] ACTION: @wxl to explore with IS the possibility of modifying the default moderation message [18:51] anything else on this? [18:51] #subtopic Hub federation to Planet [18:51] flexiondotorg you had this on your list. any new news? [18:51] anyone else know anything about it? [18:53] #action @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu [18:53] ACTION: @flexiondotorg to report back on the possibility of federating the Hub to Planet Ubuntu [18:53] moving on then [18:53] #subtopic CC resources [18:54] i believe elacheche was going to compile a list of cc resources [18:54] instead of direct federetion, we could include our topics from the hub in the weekly newsletter, and that on the planet [18:54] let's push it off for next meeting? [18:54] he's not here so i'll table this unless anyone else wants to add to it? [18:54]