[00:51] <JackFrost> Hrm, so there's the new libxfce4ui that I either didn't or I just plain forgot to merge. \o/
[01:06] <JackFrost> Had to trim my changes to exclude intro crap: http://paste.openstack.org/show/LnbtXz5TfvGkPKAlgxyq
[03:10] <JackFrost> flocculant: Oh dang, I said it in my head but it never made it to IRC.  New libxfce4ui in experimental, please to test and ensure it doesn't break like 4.13.3 did.
[04:50] <flocculant> when it arrives here I will
[04:50] <flocculant> though tbh not sure what it does and what would break :p
[04:51] <JackFrost> Eg, clicking help in xfce4-terminal or whatever.  About?  Rename title and hit help perhaps?
[04:55] <flocculant> ok - lp appears to be lagging - and -release topic was changed to build farm maintenance, so I assume that's why
[04:55] <flocculant> that ^^ isn't built I don't think
[05:00]  * JackFrost builds it and adds it to the Vanir repository, tells flocculant to add that too. :--D
[05:00]  * JackFrost ducks.
[05:01] <JackFrost> And yeah, no builders is why.
[05:02] <flocculant> :)
[05:02] <flocculant> I'll see it this evening I guess
[07:24] <ochosi> JackFrost: we have two commits, one in panel one in settings that should be added as debian patches for 18.04, do you think you could help out on that or would you try to go throuhh debian?
[07:25] <JackFrost> Depends on how bad things are.
[07:25] <ochosi> both commits are tiny, one helps the re-attaching of external displays (and is already merged to 4.12 branch of settings), the other one sorts the separator up to the launcher in the panel's add item dialog
[07:26] <ochosi> i can paste the links if that helps
[07:26] <JackFrost> Doesn't sound like Debian.  There won't be releases any time soon then?
[07:27] <ochosi> there just was a panel release so it feels like overkill to do another one just for this tiny patch
[07:27] <ochosi> and regarding settings we can chat with bluesabre
[07:29] <ochosi> but i can take a look if there are more things to be backpprted and do a 4.12.3 release of the panrl at some.point
[07:29] <JackFrost> You really think these need to get in?
[07:29] <ochosi> would just be nice if ppl could test this a little
[07:29] <ochosi> the settings one definitely
[07:30] <JackFrost> Xfce #13847, Xfce 14096
[07:31] <ochosi> the second one is the one i meant
[07:31] <ochosi> the panel fix is for knome ;)
[07:32] <ochosi> and more trivial, but still a nice to have
[07:33] <JackFrost> I mean if you want PPA stuff, sure.
[07:34] <ochosi> yup, thats what i meant
[07:36] <JackFrost> Ah you said 18.04, I thought real repos.
[07:59] <ochosi> sry for being unclear, i meant: 18.04 staging ppas and then later 18.04 if there are no releases upstream in time
[08:46] <knome> \o/
[10:12] <bluesabre> good morning everyone
[10:12] <JackFrost> Oh crap a blue sword is killing me.
[10:12] <bluesabre> JackFrost: still no builders available?
[10:13] <JackFrost> Uhh, nope!
[10:13] <bluesabre> :(
[10:14] <JackFrost> Want new libxfce4ui?  Build!
[10:14] <bluesabre> wanted to get some menulibre updates tested, but lp had other ideas https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+recipe/menulibre-daily
[10:14] <JackFrost> Didja see my pinging?
[10:15] <bluesabre> I've seen a few pings here and there, yes
[10:15] <JackFrost> Don't make me get the rabid wombat.
[10:16] <bluesabre> new debian team, new libxfce4ui, ochosi wanted me to backport somethings and got tired of waiting and did it himself, what else...
[10:32] <ochosi> :)
[10:34] <ochosi> bluesabre: well i guess we should simply check what we want for a new settings 4.12 release. i'd be in favor of dropping the color previews, as they dont work that well anymore (or at all) with gtk3
[10:35] <bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty
[10:37] <bluesabre> ochosi: I don't suppose there's a new notifyd around the corner? It seems to keep crashing on me (0.4.1)
[10:39] <ochosi> rly? where's the bugreport for those crashes?
[10:39] <ochosi> or is it fixed already woth master..?
[10:39] <bluesabre> I'm looking at the core file right now to see if there's anything useful
[10:39] <ochosi> (i suppose not)
[10:40] <bluesabre> I just notice that anything that tries to send a notification suddenly halts and then I know it's crashed
[10:40] <ochosi> i've never had a crash with it...
[10:40] <ochosi> interesting
[10:41] <JackFrost> I don't have crashing (mine is patched, but shouldn't solve crashes.)
[10:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: pretty confident with reviewing crash files? I can send it along
[10:48] <ochosi> sure, better than nothing
[10:49] <ochosi> a reproducer or patch would be even nicer ofc ;)
[10:49] <ochosi> do you also get those crashes with 0.4.0?
[10:49] <ochosi> maybe it's worth bisecting...
[10:51] <bluesabre> Hard to reproduce... I'll have notifications working for a while... until they don't :D
[10:51] <bluesabre> I'm guessing it probably crashes before displaying the offending one
[10:55] <bluesabre> ochosi: sent to your gmail
[10:57] <ochosi> bluesabre: wait, is gmail the new bugtracker..? :)
[10:57] <ali1234> is it reasonable/useful if i install 18.04 now?
[10:57] <JackFrost> I have it.
[10:58] <ali1234> i mean, on my main machine - currently 16.04. i don't mind if it crashes, i'll be able to send bug reports :)
[10:58] <JackFrost> ochosi: Wait it is?  I have two to send you then!
[10:58] <ochosi> :)
[10:59] <bluesabre> ochosi: I imagine there could be some personal thing in there, and bugzilla doesn't have private bugs (I think)
[10:59] <JackFrost> Pretty sure one is silently ignored though, the "Decode html entities" one.
[10:59] <bluesabre> also, just crashed again apparently, with no dump
[11:00] <bluesabre> moved to chrome since it has non-native notifications
[11:01] <ochosi> bluesabre: would be interesting to know if there are specific apps that trigger this more often
[11:01] <ochosi> ali1234: i guess flocculant would be the one who can tell you how stble 18.04 already is
[11:01] <ochosi> bluesabre: the crash report is fairly useless, more than 90% are just binary (which i don't read well)
[11:01] <bluesabre> seems like it crashed with rambox when you sent me your gmail bugtracker complaint
[11:02] <bluesabre> I'll see what I can do to get a better trace
[11:02] <ochosi> you can start it through gdb
[11:02] <ali1234> do you have an apport crash?
[11:02] <bluesabre> ali1234: yeah, that's what I sent along to ochosi
[11:04] <JackFrost> Install the dbgsym package.
[11:04] <ali1234> apport-retrace -s -S system /var/crash/_usr_bin_gedit.1000.crash
[11:04] <ali1234> will get all the debug symbols for you and dump the stacktrace on stdout
[11:04] <ali1234> https://piware.de/2011/08/apport-retrace-made-useful/
[11:06] <bluesabre> JackFrost: E: Unable to locate package xfce4-notifyd-dbgsym
[11:06] <ochosi> ali1234: cool, didn't know about that
[11:07] <JackFrost> (Are they enabled for the PPAs?  I had for extras IIRC.)
[11:10] <ochosi> lunchtime, bbabl
[11:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you get a better trace lemme know!
[11:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: plus think about the settings backport release, i think it'd be nice to do (and i can do it myself, i just don't want to do it without you being on board)
[11:11] <bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing, will see if there's anything else I want to include there
[11:16] <bluesabre> ali1234: thanks. Looks like that particular crash had nothing useful
[11:32] <bluesabre> JackFrost: send me a ping :)
[11:33] <JackFrost> bluesabre: I'm not here.
[11:33] <bluesabre> darn, not enough to crash it
[11:33] <JackFrost> bluesabre: ⛇ ⛇ ⛇ ⛇
[11:33] <bluesabre> neat, emoji in a notification
[11:34] <bluesabre> well, it's running in gdb with dbgsym, now it should hopefully be a matter of time
[11:43] <ochosi> bluesabre: ping, i'm killing your notifyd!
[11:43] <ochosi> :)
[11:43]  * JackFrost should blow up the PM...
[11:44] <ochosi> just paste you /var/log in there ;)
[11:48] <JackFrost> Due to unthrottled messages, I think I could cover his screen.
[11:51] <ali1234> "/msg alis help" does that to me
[11:51] <ali1234> cos it PMs you like 10 times in a row
[11:53] <JackFrost> Notices don't hit notifyd for me.
[11:56] <ali1234> i use pidgin - and alis behaves like just another user sending a PM
[11:56] <ali1234> from pidgin's PoV that is
[12:03] <ochosi> seems we fail to crash bluesabres notifyd...
[12:03] <knome> awful
[12:04] <knome> even if you try your best, you can't mess up with bluesabre 
[12:04] <knome> :(
[12:04] <knome> i'm disappointed i you
[12:04] <knome> in too
[12:08] <ochosi> maybe 0.4.1 is more stable than bluesabre insinuates
[12:11] <bluesabre> We'll see
[12:11] <bluesabre> ;)
[12:12] <bluesabre> znc's help is 139 lines :D
[16:50] <flocculant> ali1234: all pretty stable here - though that doesn't mean you won't get issues, also I might not use what you 'use'
[16:50] <flocculant> in addition I've got all our ppa's 
[16:52] <ali1234> at the moment mostly build and distro tools - proot, multistrap etc - and i'm hitting problems due to the age of the versions in 16.04
[16:53] <flocculant> right - I don't use any of that :)
[16:54] <ali1234> as long as it boots i should be okay :)
[16:55] <flocculant> :)
[16:55] <flocculant> you might find it takes a while to boot the iso ...
[16:56] <flocculant> other than that only issues I've seen have been self-made for the most part ...
[16:56] <flocculant> or I have blamed ochosi, bluesabre or systemd - not necessarily in that order :p
[17:26] <flocculant> slickymaster knome - thoughts on adding pavucontrol to the help docs
[17:35] <slickymasterWork> flocculant we already have a brief description of it in the guide-default-apps chapter
[17:35] <slickymasterWork> do you mean extend it a bit?
[17:36] <flocculant> not if you can easily worj out what people are likely to actually want from here https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/
[17:37] <flocculant> tbh I wasn't looking for a throwaway line just now - hence not seeing that in the docs :)
[17:38] <slickymasterWork> their documentation is a bit of a follow the trail type :P
[17:38] <slickymasterWork> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/
[17:38] <flocculant> so not really very helpful to have in our help docs then
[17:38] <slickymasterWork> well, it's not something right in the users face
[17:39] <slickymasterWork> and the problem is to condensed so it 'would' fit the -docs policy
[17:39] <slickymasterWork> and being helpful at the same time
[17:39] <flocculant> that pa page is all command line
[17:40] <slickymasterWork> yes
[17:40] <flocculant> so not actually anything to do with pacontrol at all then
[17:40] <slickymasterWork> you mean its GUI?
[17:41] <flocculant> yea
[17:41] <flocculant> you know it is :p
[17:41] <flocculant> oic what you're saying
[17:41] <flocculant> yea - the gui
[17:41] <slickymasterWork> just asking to gain some time while I think :P
[17:41] <flocculant> which is what people are more likely to look for 
[17:41] <flocculant> it's people like me who want to know command line stuff ;)
[17:42] <slickymasterWork> thing is are we wanting to start some sort of wiki, even if a tiny small one, of some package in the -docs?
[17:42] <slickymasterWork> which is what I think you're trying to get to
[17:42] <flocculant> no
[17:42]  * slickymasterWork agrees
[17:43] <flocculant> I'm saying why doesn't the help file cover pavucontrol - in an actually helpful way :)
[17:43] <slickymasterWork> lol
[17:43] <flocculant> if it's because we've not done it - then I'll do it ...
[17:43] <flocculant> s/just because
[17:43] <slickymasterWork> don't think it's just that
[17:44] <flocculant> mmm
[17:44] <slickymasterWork> for coherence sake wouldn't we have to the same with other packages as well? 
[17:44] <flocculant> ok - well not getting into a protracted discussion about it tbh
[17:44] <flocculant> I don't use the help file
[17:45] <flocculant> up to docs team
[17:45] <slickymasterWork> I know you're not :)
[17:45] <slickymasterWork> I only think if it's dome to one, it would have to be done to the others
[17:45] <flocculant> this is something that regularly comes up in #x 
[17:45] <slickymasterWork> and the -docs would grow exponentially ~
[17:46] <flocculant> right - well - I made the point - you do what you want with it
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> but of course I'm open to a consensus 
[17:46] <flocculant> next time I see someone looking for help with it I will ping you ;)
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> no love for me then ;)
[17:46] <flocculant> consensus is extremely unlikely to get anything done this side of release ;)
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> ahhahaha
[17:46] <flocculant> I always love you :D
[17:47] <flocculant> ish
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> lmao
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> well, me too
[17:47] <flocculant> :)
[17:48] <flocculant> my position on this - and probably other things if I put my mind to it is "if people regularly pitch up with similar issues - then our help file should cover it somehow'
[17:49] <flocculant> pointing to an external entity is fine - if it actually helps :)
[17:50] <slickymasterWork> I agree with that principle but my fear is if that wouldn't completely blow the -docs
[17:51] <slickymasterWork> what I mean is that if we're going to start to add more meaningful info about some packages the -docs soon will became a colossus in size
[17:51] <slickymasterWork> and readability for that matter 
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> not speaking about the maintenance that it would bring with
[17:52] <flocculant> this from the debian wiki " Pavucontrol, an optional package for pulseaudio, allows you to make volume adjustments (entire system or per application). It also allows you to change "mixer" settings like headphone output, mic level, input device, and stereo versus surround sound profiles. "
[17:53] <flocculant> which is a whole lot more helpful than pointing to the pulseaudio site :p
[17:53] <slickymasterWork> but that follows what I was suggesting/asking in the beginning
[17:53] <flocculant> that's likely all we need do
[17:53] <flocculant> by extend it a bit? 
[17:53] <slickymasterWork> yep
[17:54] <flocculant> yea - that's fine - we ended up discussing where we pointed people :D
[17:54] <flocculant> I'll do an mp for it - faff about with wording and some bolding etc
[17:54] <slickymasterWork> ok
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> I was going to say that I was going to draft something
[17:55] <flocculant> yea it's ok - I'll do that
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> but bieng so
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> s/bieng/being
[18:08] <flocculant> done :)
[18:08] <flocculant> bbl
[18:19] <slickymasterWork> thanks flocculant 
[18:19] <slickymasterWork> will review it after dinner
[18:57] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [pavucontrol] r643 Pavucontrol addition (by Kev Bowring)
[19:32] <flocculant> slickymaster: np :)
[20:20] <knome> flocculant, good idea and i see you already did something :)
[20:20] <flocculant> heh
[22:01] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r643 Merge flocculant's rewrite of the pavucontrol section in gui... (by David Pires)