ochosiJackFrost, bluesabre: reminder, would be nice if you could push xfpm 1.6 to bionic10:27
ochosilet's not wait too long with that, then i can at least still fix bugs10:28
JackFrostHe's figured out my new nick, gotta change it. :310:29
knomeochosi, bluesabre: maybe we should draft a blog article and a mailing list mail to discuss gtk-theme-config and the improbability of it working with gtk3 along with a freeform poll: 1) do you use it? 2) which features? 3) which theme?14:34
ochosiwe can, but give me at least one more week to finish the prototype15:22
ochosiif i find out it doesnt really work at all we can also skip the thread and just make an announcement that its dead15:23
knomepart of the reason for this poll (and to do it anyway) is to see how many greybird users would benefit from it15:24
ochosieven though greybird is adwaita based i currently cant say how well it will work15:25
ochosimaybe very good, maybe not so :)15:25
knomeand with that comment i'm referring to our discussion for a greybird-specific tool15:26
knomewhile it's not my life goal to make everybody use greybird, doing a gb-specific tool well would be one more reason to use it over other themes15:27
knome(and it's still our default theme, so bonus points for that)15:27
knome(or in other words, supporting theme configuring for our default theme but not the rest isn't ideal, but it's much better than nothing)15:28
ochosiyeah, hmm, one more thing to maintain and update all the time...15:28
knomei was thinking something in the sass-level15:29
knomeyes, it's one more thing to maintain, but...15:29
ochosii am working on a sass prototype15:30
knomeand as i said then (and i'm happy to repeat): it would be just fine if the tool created ~/.themes/greybird-customname when you created the color scheme15:30
ochosianything else is useless with gtkcss15:30
knomei know15:30
ochosiyeah, also an option, though not a great onr15:31
knomeit has that added bonus that then you can "save" a variety of color schemes15:31
ochosicause with an update your version may break15:31
knomethen write a script for greybird package update that makes sure all of the color schemes are updated15:32
knomei know this is just proposing more code...15:32
knomebut it's relatively trivial to do *that* bit at least15:32
ochosiyuck, you writr and maintain that script please :)15:32
knomei mean15:33
knomewhat other things does it have to do than just rewrite the custom theme from scratch with the users options?15:33
knomei don't want to do a migration script or anything15:33
knomejust delete the old theme (which we are sure is one generated by our tool) and generate a new one with the same options15:34
knomejust like you'd create your config again in the UI15:34
ochosijust look into colors.scss15:34
knomei know15:34
knomebut that problem is either already fixed by the tool or not15:34
knomewe don't want to show the user 20 different color options to change15:34
knomeonly some15:34
ochosiyeah, i meant: start looking into it15:35
knomeagain this has nothing to do with the update script ;)15:36
ochosi"a little less conversation a little more action" ;)15:36
knomeyeah sure...15:36
knomethis sounds like a copout but15:36
knomei really have to go now15:36
knomei'll happily do something with this at some point15:36
ochosiit does15:36
knomewe're going shopping with the whole family and meeting my mother15:36
knomeexcuse accepted?15:36
ochosihehe, sure sure15:36
knomeprobably during the meeting today...15:37
ochosianyway, as i said, i'm 50% there15:37
knomethere was one at 22UTC, right?15:37
knomei need an UTC clock back on my panel15:37
ochosiyeah, tonight eill be hard for me15:37
flocculantoh - thanks for the reminder knome :p15:39
ochosiunfortunately i dont know if ill make the meeting tonight, but it would be good to take a look at the status quo of our ppas and see what to promote to bionic until when, so we have a timeline16:16
ochosiand in general just review the bps to see where more action is needed, so people get a poke16:18
flocculantthat looks busy - I was hoping for a #startmeeting - tumbleweed - #endmeeting16:19
flocculantochosi: add stuff to the agenda - if you're not about and as long as it makes sense to - I'll deal iwht it16:20
akxwi-davethats easy flocculant , propose stuff we'll agree.. :-)16:35
knomei'll be around for the meeting most likely19:05
knomei mean unless the sky falls etc.19:08
knomeor i forget19:08
flocculantif we both forget - you can get away with it :D19:14
flocculant!team | meeting in 30 minutesish21:34
ubottumeeting in 30 minutesish: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit19321:34
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Jan  5 22:00:36 2018 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.22:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick22:00
flocculantso then - who's here :)22:00
* flocculant waits for tumbleweed :p22:01
flocculantwe can go for it still if we think it's worth it - if not I'll just do an Announcement and finish :p22:05
* flocculant waits some more22:06
ochosistill on my way, i'll be around in about 30 (sry)22:06
flocculantcan postpone for 30 if that helps 22:06
flocculantI'll move on then 22:08
flocculant#topic Open action items22:08
ochosibbiab ->22:08
ochosi(sry, don't irc and drive)22:09
flocculantyup - we'll still be going perhaps22:09
flocculantI know that one too :D22:09
flocculantbluesabre to change seed for GNOME/MATE apps transition before FDF  - that's done22:09
flocculantflocculant to send a proposal on improving panel configuration - that isn't 22:09
knomethere's an xfce related task for me, let's talk later22:09
flocculantand I'm not sure I've got time to look tbh - nor sure I've the energy to deal with the inertia22:10
knomeregarding panel conf that is22:10
flocculantyea - I know22:10
flocculantbluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 - not sure what the status is on that, from what ochosi said in channel recently I'm assuming not, so 22:11
flocculant#action : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 22:11
meetingologyACTION: : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.622:11
flocculantthat's action items done22:11
flocculant#topic Discussion22:12
flocculantnothing on the agenda, but ...22:12
knomemaybe discuss it all under other then22:13
knomeget the bureaucratic things done22:13
flocculant#subtopic Artful Point 1 iso22:13
flocculantI've been waiting to see when this would appear22:14
flocculantwe've now got respun iso's to test to cover lp 173414722:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173414722:14
flocculant-release are planning to release next Thursday, 25th January22:15
flocculantby the end of the weekend I will have mailed list(s) about that and done facebook22:15
flocculantif others can do g+ and twitter then that'll be great22:15
pleia2sure thing22:16
flocculantthanks :)22:16
flocculantpleia2: just a channel ping - or would you like an e-mail?22:17
pleia2channel ping is fine22:17
flocculant#subtopic 18.04 wallpaper contest22:18
flocculantknome: you want to repeat what you just said in ot :p22:18
flocculantoh - didn't see that action hiding at the bottom of the meeting page :p22:19
knomeyes, so i need one more testing day to make sure the changes in the plugin work as expected22:19
knomeafter that we're free to open the contest right away22:19
knomethe announcement blog article and all other content is ready, thanks to flocculant and others22:19
flocculantand I can volunteer to test stuff as required22:19
knomeit also needs to be a day when i have time and energy ;)22:20
knomebut it will be sooner than later22:20
flocculantyea ofc22:20
pleia2if you can do this weekend, I'll be around, but work gets busy for me next week22:20
knomeweekend is hard, but let's see22:22
knomemaybe later on sunday my time22:22
knomelike 20UTC or so22:22
pleia2ok :)22:22
pleia2hm, that might be airport time22:22
pleia2ah we'll see22:22
flocculantI can be around then if you need knome 22:22
knomewell it's jiggly22:22
knomei'd like a few people, but i'll announce22:22
flocculantanything else on that now?22:23
pleia2thanks for getting that prepped, knome \o/22:24
knomeit's pretty much all ready except that testing22:24
knomewell, on announcish side22:24
knomeit can now hold any number of contests at the same time22:24
flocculantthat's cool22:24
knomeand archives neatly22:24
knomeso that's improvements22:24
flocculantochosi wanted to go through a couple of things I believe, so I'll schedule and then we can resume22:26
flocculant#topic Schedule next meeting22:27
flocculantnext up on the merry-go-round is ...22:27
flocculantbluesabre \o/22:27
flocculant#topic Discussion #222:27
flocculanteveryone can now wander off to the foyer for some light refreshment - or the rest of their day - while we patiently see if Simon makes it here :)22:29
* pleia2 beer o'clock22:31
=== genii is now known as barista
=== barista is now known as genii
ochosibeer o'clock already..?22:41
pleia2east coast this week ;)22:41
flocculanthi ochosi :)22:41
flocculant#chair ochosi 22:42
meetingologyCurrent chairs: flocculant ochosi22:42
flocculantnot completely sure what you wanted to discuss - only half read them - so #topic away in your own time22:42
ochosiso regarding xfpm, i've done my part and fixed the concerns that people mentioned and released 1.6.1 (which is a stable release, the 1.5 series was unstable/dev)22:43
ochosiso what has to be done is packaging and uploading22:43
ochosiso that action would be for bluesabre and Unit193 (aka JackFrost in the season)22:44
flocculant#subtopic Xfpm22:44
flocculant#action bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm22:45
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm22:45
flocculantlike that :p22:45
ochosiso there were some issues, namely xfpm support for desktops22:45
ochosiand that has been implemented22:45
ochosiplus i went through buzgilla and cleaned up a lot of reports and bugs22:45
ochosiso 1.6.x should be fine22:45
ochosilet's move one22:46
flocculantochosi: blueprints? 22:46
ochosi#subtopic Other Xfce components/releases22:46
flocculantok :p22:46
ochosii've done another release of the panel (4.12.2) and i've been discussing another release of xfce4-settings with bluesabre22:47
ochosiboth will improve multi-monitor handling22:47
ochosiso i think we should include them22:47
flocculantI'd agree22:47
ochosifor xfce4-settings, some testing may help22:47
ochosithe patch has already been merged to the 4.12 branch22:47
ochosibut it needs to be put in our staging PPA22:47
flocculantmany of the issues I read on 'forums' are multi-monitor22:47
ochosiyeah, both of those patches help22:48
ochosione (panel) helps to keep the panel on the primary monitor, which you can define in xfce4-settings (xfce4-display-settings, to be exact)22:48
flocculantochosi: staging? that's now 'artful qa' 22:48
flocculantor do you mean experimental? 22:48
flocculantwhich is what I have22:49
ochosiand the other one is in xfce4-settings and tries to keep displays in their position when disconnecting and reconnecting them22:49
ochosisry, i always get confused with the PPAs these days...22:49
flocculantochosi: I remeber the aging bit in staging and know I don't use it :D22:49
ochosiaging bit?22:50
flocculantst aging22:50
ochosiah lol22:50
ochosisry, i'm slooooow22:50
ochosibeer o'clock and all22:50
ochosiso anyway, for the time being, we would need to package at least the settings update as a patch22:51
ochosidebian patch that is22:51
ochosiand put it in the experimental/aging PPAs22:51
ochosiand for the panel there's yet another patch that knome really wants and it's nice to have and not critical22:51
ochosiit basically sorts the separator up at the top of the list along with "launcher" in the panel's "add item" dialog22:52
ochosii already pushed it to the 4.13 branch and may also push it to the 4.12 branch if there's going to be another maintenance release22:52
ochosii have to check if there is more to backport22:52
JackFrostI have a mental note: experimental is where I push all the (fun) things, staging is what I upload to every time I upload something to unit193/xfce (Well...Almost.)22:52
ochosiregarding the other components, here's what i see coming up:22:54
ochosi * potentially another xfce4-notifyd maintenance release22:54
flocculantfunny that knome wants seperator at the top of the list - I remove them from panel completely unless asked to check something22:54
ochosi * potentially a xfce4-taskmanager gtk3-only release (probably not many additional features)22:54
ochosiflocculant: well the argument makes sense as it's one of the few plugins that you may wanna use multiple times (same as launcher)22:55
knome^ what ochosi said22:55
flocculantyea - I can understand the argument for it22:55
ochosi * potentially a clipman maintenance release22:55
ochosi * if needed, another xfpm maintenance release22:56
flocculantquite a lot then22:56
flocculantnice :)22:56
ochosiwell that's just what i see coming, if we need more i need to knw22:56
ochosiso i also wanted to bring up this topic so we can discuss what we want or need to focus on22:56
ochosii've been more active again upstream recently so i can try to get the most out of it for 18.0422:57
flocculant7 weeks to feature freeze I think22:58
flocculantochosi: these things I'm assuming you'd want testing?22:59
ochosimostly for taskman, the rest would be just maintenance/bugfix, so nothing too critical there22:59
ochosibut much depends on my own free time/energy22:59
flocculanttaskman doesn't seem to hard for testing22:59
flocculantand yea - understood :)23:00
ochosiyeah, it's fairly easy23:00
ochosilibxfce4ui also needs a new version uploaded/tested23:00
flocculantochosi: is taskman actually available git?23:00
ochosialthough again, no dramatic changes23:00
flocculantok - I can grab that23:00
ochosii also have a development branch somewhere, where i dropped all the gtk2 ifdefs23:01
flocculantand libxfce4ui there is one pending at the ppa23:01
flocculantwaiting for buildfarm to start I'm assuming23:01
JackFrostI'm running that one now.23:01
flocculantochosi: well if there is a specific one you'd rather I used - point me to it and I will ofc23:02
ochosiyeah, it should be fine, but we should also try to get it in23:02
ochosiflocculant: will do as soon as i've cleaned it up. i had a branch with CSD/headerbar (which will make some ppl in here whine) and gtk3-only, i think that's where i want to continue23:02
flocculantokey doke 23:02
ochosiplus i'm wondering if we need other graphs there23:02
ochosior improved graphs23:03
ochosibut we'll see23:03
flocculantping me when you want me to take a gander at it 23:03
ochosikewl, will do23:03
ochosiok, that's that subtopic from my side23:04
ochosiJackFrost: anything to add?23:04
ochosianything you think needs updates?23:04
flocculantochosi: did you think more on that tooltips thing on taskmanager?23:04
JackFrostI don't know what I'd be adding.23:04
flocculantan #action 23:04
flocculantor an #info23:04
ochosiflocculant: that'd be one thing i could/would fix, not sure if i'd do it in the current stable series23:04
ochosiit has been like this for ages tbh23:05
ochosiand the UI ways to fix this are not very gtk2-ish23:05
ochosibut we'll see23:05
ochosimaybe i can come up with a simple idea23:05
ochosithe main thing is i want to avoid i18n23:05
flocculantyea I guess so - it just hit me the other day when the mouse got left when I went to work and the tooltip was still there hours later :D23:05
ochosiand fixing it without adding new strings sucks23:05
ochosiat least probably23:06
ochosibut we'll see23:06
flocculantwant to move on ?23:06
flocculantfloor's still your one :p23:06
ochosiJackFrost: dunno, if you feel there's a problem somewhere or bugs (like you raised concerns against xfpm 1.6)...23:06
ochosii myself need to make the jump to 18.04, i am lacking overview a little of what we have already changed...23:07
JackFrostYeah but that was a long time ago, so you either fixed them, couldn't fix them, or ignored them. :P23:07
ochosithings like xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin vs. indicator-sound23:07
JackFrostIIRC, one of the fixes was in elementary-xfce-icon-theme.23:07
ochosiand whether to add xfce4-notification-plugin to the panel by default23:08
ochosiJackFrost: alrighty, that's fine then. just want to avoid things falling through the cracks23:08
ochosior clipman-plugin23:08
flocculantthen I might try and find energy to do what I'd been actioned to do if you're going to look at panel23:08
ochosibut that may be knome's topic from before23:08
JackFrostxfce4-statusnotifier-plugin*, and yeah there's nothing wrong with that one, less fragile than xfce4-indicator-plugin+indicator-application.23:08
ochosiyeah, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin to23:09
ochosiis all of that in our default session already?23:09
flocculantochosi: can we make that an #action (panel that is)23:09
JackFrostYes, I believe so.23:10
ochosiflocculant: you mean the panel config?23:10
ochosiknome: is that what you wanted to discuss earlier..?23:10
flocculantI was going to look at one thing - but if it's more general then it can be more than 1 person :p23:10
ochosiyeah, just want to make sure now23:11
flocculantif we're adding things - then the thing I was ignoring is more useful maybe :)23:11
ochosiwe should be replacing xfce4-indicator-plugin and indicator-application with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin23:12
ochosiand indicator-sound with xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin23:12
knomeochosi, outside the meeting, yes23:12
ochosiand should be discussing whether to keep indicator-messages23:12
ochosiand whether to add things like clipman or notifyd23:13
ochosiknome: ok, then let's do that later23:13
ochosii'm fine with moving on then23:13
JackFrostEh, nah don't add them.23:13
flocculantochosi: that's never really worked for me - but then I never use anything (other than tbird) which lived there23:13
knomeochosi, and it was basically only needed between me and flocculant too :)23:13
JackFrostflocculant: Pidgin works with it, which we ship.23:13
flocculantochosi: move on then :)23:13
ochosiyeah, it's pidgin and thunderbird23:14
ochosianyway, let's move on23:14
flocculantJackFrost: right - 'then I never use anything' was where I was going there23:14
ochosii have one last topic, and then i pass the floor back to you gusy23:14
ochosi#subtopic gtk-theme-config status quo23:14
flocculantright 23:14
ochosiso currently gtk-theme-config is broken and useless (fairly)23:15
flocculantthis stuff between you 2 I did read :p23:15
ochosiit works ok for gtk2 but not at all reliably with gtk323:15
ochosiso i started an investigation into whether it can be fixed23:15
ochosiin the generic way that it was working before23:15
ochosifor "most themes"23:15
ochosii'm somewhere between 30 and 50% there23:15
ochosihard to judge23:16
ochosiand i can't say what the outcome will be23:16
ochosibut in general it's possible that we may need to drop it23:16
ochosiit's also possible that it will be hard to rewrite until FF23:16
flocculantand which freeze do we need to decide by?23:16
flocculantFF I assume?23:16
ochosior alternatively it may only work with "some themes" and we will have to decide whether that's "enough"23:16
ochosithe problem is that it's hard to test23:17
ochosilatest FF23:17
ochosipoint is we need to keep it on our radar a bit23:17
flocculantthat's like saying that we have a text editor that sometimes works 23:17
ochosibut anyway, i will keep you updated about my progress23:17
flocculantsoory - meant I had a point :p23:17
ochosiwell it's not as critical as a text editor luckily :)23:17
ochosibut yeah, it's a bit of a can of worms23:18
ochosipartly due to the complexity of gtk theming23:18
flocculantif we had something else we knew 'sometimes' worked - we'd likely ditch it - especially on something for 3 years23:18
ochosianyway, we'll see23:18
flocculantyea I understood that much23:18
ochosijust wanted to get everyone on the same page23:18
ochosithere are still quite a few open issues on all blueprints btw23:19
ochosithat could either be the next topic or we discuss it offline and move on23:19
flocculantworst case scenario from my pov is we lose it 'now' but it makes a triumphant return between LTS's :p23:19
JackFrostAlso, I've been going with "Wait and see" with xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, but since it's not really part of the desktop so much anymore, I'd like to just sync it and say "bummer" to the ones not using ayatana indicators.23:20
flocculantochosi: yup - probably need to be more proactive at not gapping meetings by weeks then23:20
ochosiJackFrost: that's ok if it's not in our default session anymore imo23:20
JackFrostWell, not great for upgrades at all, but..23:20
ochosii agree23:20
flocculantI'm happy for it to be next topic if others want to btw ochosi 23:20
ochosiflocculant: yeah, but you know, life... i just don't have enough time :/23:21
flocculantoh right23:21
flocculantif you want to move on to sleep we can do it another time :)23:21
flocculantI was meaning I'm in no hurry to #endmeeting23:21
ochosiright, just wanted to make sure no-one else is23:23
ochosisince we're already 25mins over the scheduled time23:23
flocculantwell that's only some historical thing :)23:24
flocculantwhen everyone is drained or gone and I'm here alone I'll end meeting :D23:25
* ochosi goes to the loo to return and find out if anyone else is still awake23:25
flocculantochosi: if you've time now to 'say' things then go for it - if nothing else it gets minuted23:25
JackFrostRight, so I'll sync it, unless bluesabre says otherwise.23:26
ochosi#topic blueprints status23:28
ochosi#subtopic devel blueprint23:29
ochosiso what i see there are some things that are stuck at packaging level23:29
ochosiregarding elementary-xfce i think everything that needed to be done at source level has been done23:29
ochosiit just needs the packaging updates to be carried out too23:29
ochosiregarding parole, don't think that's going to happen this cycle (again)23:30
ochositoo busy with xfce 4.1423:30
flocculantshould be blocked I guess23:30
ochosiand pidgin, that depends on bluesabre's time, but tbh i'm sceptical as it would probably have to go through upstream23:30
ochosior postponed..23:30
ochosiregarding xubuntu-core, JackFrost?23:30
ochosiappstream could be low-hanging fruit for almost everyone, i personally know i don't have the time23:31
ochosithe mate packaging things also seem a little stuck23:32
ochosigtk-theme-config is in progress, thunar custom actions is a little stuck (cause i'm afraid of not finding generic enough solutions without adding depends)23:33
bluesabreI'm here now23:34
flocculanthi bluesabre 23:34
bluesabrehi flocculant 23:34
ochosiwelcome to the party :)23:34
flocculantochosi: I assume the Mate stuff is also waiting on others23:34
bluesabreflocculant: indeed, got moved to the mate packaging team in debian and died23:34
flocculantso some of that bp stuff is just not up to date then 23:35
flocculantnormal enough :)23:35
bluesabreI'll try to make some updates to those soon23:36
flocculantochosi: as far as the core stuff goes - I think it only goes only the list because stubborn xubuntu 23:36
flocculantbluesabre: wasn't pointing fingers :(23:36
bluesabreflocculant: I have a menulibre release right around the corner, hoping you and others might be able to kick the tires23:36
flocculantbluesabre: ofc23:36
flocculantand if it fixes things - I'll try and reproduce ... 23:37
flocculantoften I can't 23:37
ochosibluesabre: i think something like a "release radar" would help23:38
ochosito know what'll come up soon23:39
flocculantthat could be some awesome page at dev.x.o23:39
JackFrostbluesabre: ACK syncing xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, perhaps breaking upgrades?23:40
flocculantochosi: like the qa one - which you can just type things to23:40
bluesabreJackFrost: yeah, let's go ahead with that23:40
bluesabreWe can figure out how to minimize damages as we go23:41
JackFrostxfce4-power-manager (1.6.1-1) UNRELEASED  is actually in experimental vcs.23:41
flocculantwhat's the story with fonts?23:42
flocculantpeople were getting exercised about that iirc23:43
knomeprobably pending on my time23:43
flocculantmore on that bp?23:45
bluesabreflocculant: the fonts is related to the surprising tons of fonts they added to all flavors and main at the tail end of 17.1023:46
flocculantyea I know23:46
bluesabrewe had hoped to reduce that clutter23:46
ochosibluesabre: chances of pidgin stuff to happen this cycle..?23:46
flocculantI know I trimmed a whole bunch out locally - then at some point I let and update in and they all came back 23:47
* flocculant remembers now - I'd lost some xubuntu-foo with a ppa:purge and they came back then23:48
bluesabreochosi: still at a maybe, but time is running out23:48
ochosithat's why i'm asking :)23:48
flocculantat this place - ~7 weeks to FF, maybe we could be knowing which we'll ignore23:49
flocculantwell not we - you all :p23:50
bluesabreStill not sure of the full code requirement, could be minutes, could be hours23:50
bluesabreThere's got to be some reason that feature doesn't yet exist23:50
flocculantit's gnome?23:51
ochosimaybe ask upstream before you pour hours into it?23:52
bluesabreWill reach out to see what the consensus is... no need to build a patch if upstream doesn't want it23:53
ochosian email to their ml or a ping in their channel may suffice23:55
bluesabresure thing23:57
bluesabre#action bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes23:57
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes23:57
flocculanttimeout bug on that bp is set wishlist23:59

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