[10:27] JackFrost, bluesabre: reminder, would be nice if you could push xfpm 1.6 to bionic [10:28] let's not wait too long with that, then i can at least still fix bugs [10:29] He's figured out my new nick, gotta change it. :3 [11:50] :) [14:34] ochosi, bluesabre: maybe we should draft a blog article and a mailing list mail to discuss gtk-theme-config and the improbability of it working with gtk3 along with a freeform poll: 1) do you use it? 2) which features? 3) which theme? [15:22] we can, but give me at least one more week to finish the prototype [15:23] if i find out it doesnt really work at all we can also skip the thread and just make an announcement that its dead [15:23] sure [15:24] part of the reason for this poll (and to do it anyway) is to see how many greybird users would benefit from it [15:25] even though greybird is adwaita based i currently cant say how well it will work [15:25] maybe very good, maybe not so :) [15:26] and with that comment i'm referring to our discussion for a greybird-specific tool [15:27] while it's not my life goal to make everybody use greybird, doing a gb-specific tool well would be one more reason to use it over other themes [15:27] (and it's still our default theme, so bonus points for that) [15:28] (or in other words, supporting theme configuring for our default theme but not the rest isn't ideal, but it's much better than nothing) [15:28] yeah, hmm, one more thing to maintain and update all the time... [15:29] i was thinking something in the sass-level [15:29] yes, it's one more thing to maintain, but... [15:30] i am working on a sass prototype [15:30] and as i said then (and i'm happy to repeat): it would be just fine if the tool created ~/.themes/greybird-customname when you created the color scheme [15:30] anything else is useless with gtkcss [15:30] i know [15:31] yeah, also an option, though not a great onr [15:31] well [15:31] it has that added bonus that then you can "save" a variety of color schemes [15:31] cause with an update your version may break [15:31] absolutely [15:32] then write a script for greybird package update that makes sure all of the color schemes are updated [15:32] i know this is just proposing more code... [15:32] but it's relatively trivial to do *that* bit at least [15:32] yuck, you writr and maintain that script please :) [15:32] sure [15:33] i mean [15:33] what other things does it have to do than just rewrite the custom theme from scratch with the users options? [15:33] i don't want to do a migration script or anything [15:34] just delete the old theme (which we are sure is one generated by our tool) and generate a new one with the same options [15:34] just like you'd create your config again in the UI [15:34] just look into colors.scss [15:34] sigh [15:34] i know [15:34] but that problem is either already fixed by the tool or not [15:34] we don't want to show the user 20 different color options to change [15:34] only some [15:35] right? [15:35] yeah, i meant: start looking into it [15:36] again this has nothing to do with the update script ;) [15:36] "a little less conversation a little more action" ;) [15:36] yeah sure... [15:36] this sounds like a copout but [15:36] i really have to go now [15:36] haha [15:36] i'll happily do something with this at some point [15:36] it does [15:36] we're going shopping with the whole family and meeting my mother [15:36] excuse accepted? [15:36] hehe, sure sure [15:37] ;) [15:37] ttyl [15:37] probably during the meeting today... [15:37] anyway, as i said, i'm 50% there [15:37] there was one at 22UTC, right? [15:37] i need an UTC clock back on my panel [15:37] ... [15:37] o/ [15:37] yeah, tonight eill be hard for me [15:37] hf [15:39] oh - thanks for the reminder knome :p [16:16] unfortunately i dont know if ill make the meeting tonight, but it would be good to take a look at the status quo of our ppas and see what to promote to bionic until when, so we have a timeline [16:18] and in general just review the bps to see where more action is needed, so people get a poke [16:19] that looks busy - I was hoping for a #startmeeting - tumbleweed - #endmeeting [16:19] :P [16:20] ochosi: add stuff to the agenda - if you're not about and as long as it makes sense to - I'll deal iwht it [16:35] thats easy flocculant , propose stuff we'll agree.. :-) [16:40] :) [19:05] i'll be around for the meeting most likely [19:06] okey [19:08] i mean unless the sky falls etc. [19:08] or i forget [19:08] :P [19:14] if we both forget - you can get away with it :D [19:14] :) [21:34] !team | meeting in 30 minutesish [21:34] meeting in 30 minutesish: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193 [22:00] #startmeeting [22:00] Meeting started Fri Jan 5 22:00:36 2018 UTC. The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [22:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [22:00] so then - who's here :) [22:00] o/ [22:01] * flocculant waits for tumbleweed :p [22:04] o/ [22:05] we can go for it still if we think it's worth it - if not I'll just do an Announcement and finish :p [22:06] * flocculant waits some more [22:06] still on my way, i'll be around in about 30 (sry) [22:06] can postpone for 30 if that helps [22:07] o/ [22:08] I'll move on then [22:08] #topic Open action items [22:08] bbiab -> [22:09] (sry, don't irc and drive) [22:09] yup - we'll still be going perhaps [22:09] I know that one too :D [22:09] sure [22:09] bluesabre to change seed for GNOME/MATE apps transition before FDF - that's done [22:09] flocculant to send a proposal on improving panel configuration - that isn't [22:09] there's an xfce related task for me, let's talk later [22:10] and I'm not sure I've got time to look tbh - nor sure I've the energy to deal with the inertia [22:10] regarding panel conf that is [22:10] yea - I know [22:11] bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 - not sure what the status is on that, from what ochosi said in channel recently I'm assuming not, so [22:11] #action : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 [22:11] ACTION: : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 [22:11] that's action items done [22:12] #topic Discussion [22:12] nothing on the agenda, but ... [22:13] maybe discuss it all under other then [22:13] get the bureaucratic things done [22:13] #subtopic Artful Point 1 iso [22:14] I've been waiting to see when this would appear [22:14] we've now got respun iso's to test to cover lp 1734147 [22:14] Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147 [22:15] -release are planning to release next Thursday, 25th January [22:15] great [22:15] by the end of the weekend I will have mailed list(s) about that and done facebook [22:15] if others can do g+ and twitter then that'll be great [22:16] sure thing [22:16] thanks :) [22:17] pleia2: just a channel ping - or would you like an e-mail? [22:17] channel ping is fine [22:17] k [22:18] #subtopic 18.04 wallpaper contest [22:18] knome: you want to repeat what you just said in ot :p [22:19] oh - didn't see that action hiding at the bottom of the meeting page :p [22:19] yes, so i need one more testing day to make sure the changes in the plugin work as expected [22:19] after that we're free to open the contest right away [22:19] the announcement blog article and all other content is ready, thanks to flocculant and others [22:19] and I can volunteer to test stuff as required [22:20] yup [22:20] it also needs to be a day when i have time and energy ;) [22:20] but it will be sooner than later [22:20] yea ofc [22:20] if you can do this weekend, I'll be around, but work gets busy for me next week [22:22] weekend is hard, but let's see [22:22] maybe later on sunday my time [22:22] like 20UTC or so [22:22] ok :) [22:22] hm, that might be airport time [22:22] ah we'll see [22:22] I can be around then if you need knome [22:22] well it's jiggly [22:22] i'd like a few people, but i'll announce [22:23] :) [22:23] anything else on that now? [22:24] nope [22:24] thanks for getting that prepped, knome \o/ [22:24] it's pretty much all ready except that testing [22:24] well, on announcish side [22:24] it can now hold any number of contests at the same time [22:24] that's cool [22:24] and archives neatly [22:24] :) [22:24] so that's improvements [22:26] ochosi wanted to go through a couple of things I believe, so I'll schedule and then we can resume [22:27] #topic Schedule next meeting [22:27] next up on the merry-go-round is ... [22:27] bluesabre \o/ [22:27] #topic Discussion #2 [22:27] winner [22:27] :) [22:28] :) [22:29] everyone can now wander off to the foyer for some light refreshment - or the rest of their day - while we patiently see if Simon makes it here :) [22:30] :) [22:31] * pleia2 beer o'clock [22:32] :) === genii is now known as barista === barista is now known as genii [22:41] beer o'clock already..? [22:41] east coast this week ;) [22:41] hi ochosi :) [22:42] #chair ochosi [22:42] Current chairs: flocculant ochosi [22:42] not completely sure what you wanted to discuss - only half read them - so #topic away in your own time [22:43] so regarding xfpm, i've done my part and fixed the concerns that people mentioned and released 1.6.1 (which is a stable release, the 1.5 series was unstable/dev) [22:43] so what has to be done is packaging and uploading [22:44] so that action would be for bluesabre and Unit193 (aka JackFrost in the season) [22:44] #subtopic Xfpm [22:45] #action bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm [22:45] ACTION: bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm [22:45] like that :p [22:45] so there were some issues, namely xfpm support for desktops [22:45] and that has been implemented [22:45] plus i went through buzgilla and cleaned up a lot of reports and bugs [22:45] so 1.6.x should be fine [22:46] anyway [22:46] let's move one [22:46] on [22:46] ochosi: blueprints? [22:46] #subtopic Other Xfce components/releases [22:46] ok :p [22:47] i've done another release of the panel (4.12.2) and i've been discussing another release of xfce4-settings with bluesabre [22:47] both will improve multi-monitor handling [22:47] so i think we should include them [22:47] I'd agree [22:47] for xfce4-settings, some testing may help [22:47] the patch has already been merged to the 4.12 branch [22:47] but it needs to be put in our staging PPA [22:47] many of the issues I read on 'forums' are multi-monitor [22:48] yeah, both of those patches help [22:48] one (panel) helps to keep the panel on the primary monitor, which you can define in xfce4-settings (xfce4-display-settings, to be exact) [22:48] ochosi: staging? that's now 'artful qa' [22:48] or do you mean experimental? [22:49] which is what I have [22:49] and the other one is in xfce4-settings and tries to keep displays in their position when disconnecting and reconnecting them [22:49] sry, i always get confused with the PPAs these days... [22:49] :) [22:49] ochosi: I remeber the aging bit in staging and know I don't use it :D [22:50] aging bit? [22:50] st aging [22:50] ah lol [22:50] sry, i'm slooooow [22:50] beer o'clock and all [22:50] :) [22:51] so anyway, for the time being, we would need to package at least the settings update as a patch [22:51] debian patch that is [22:51] and put it in the experimental/aging PPAs [22:51] :) [22:51] and for the panel there's yet another patch that knome really wants and it's nice to have and not critical [22:52] it basically sorts the separator up at the top of the list along with "launcher" in the panel's "add item" dialog [22:52] i already pushed it to the 4.13 branch and may also push it to the 4.12 branch if there's going to be another maintenance release [22:52] i have to check if there is more to backport [22:52] I have a mental note: experimental is where I push all the (fun) things, staging is what I upload to every time I upload something to unit193/xfce (Well...Almost.) [22:54] regarding the other components, here's what i see coming up: [22:54] * potentially another xfce4-notifyd maintenance release [22:54] funny that knome wants seperator at the top of the list - I remove them from panel completely unless asked to check something [22:54] * potentially a xfce4-taskmanager gtk3-only release (probably not many additional features) [22:55] flocculant: well the argument makes sense as it's one of the few plugins that you may wanna use multiple times (same as launcher) [22:55] ^ what ochosi said [22:55] yea - I can understand the argument for it [22:55] * potentially a clipman maintenance release [22:56] * if needed, another xfpm maintenance release [22:56] quite a lot then [22:56] nice :) [22:56] well that's just what i see coming, if we need more i need to knw [22:56] know [22:56] so i also wanted to bring up this topic so we can discuss what we want or need to focus on [22:57] i've been more active again upstream recently so i can try to get the most out of it for 18.04 [22:58] 7 weeks to feature freeze I think [22:59] ochosi: these things I'm assuming you'd want testing? [22:59] mostly for taskman, the rest would be just maintenance/bugfix, so nothing too critical there [22:59] ok [22:59] but much depends on my own free time/energy [22:59] taskman doesn't seem to hard for testing [23:00] and yea - understood :) [23:00] yeah, it's fairly easy [23:00] libxfce4ui also needs a new version uploaded/tested [23:00] ochosi: is taskman actually available git? [23:00] although again, no dramatic changes [23:00] sure [23:00] https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/ [23:00] ok - I can grab that [23:01] i also have a development branch somewhere, where i dropped all the gtk2 ifdefs [23:01] and libxfce4ui there is one pending at the ppa [23:01] waiting for buildfarm to start I'm assuming [23:01] I'm running that one now. [23:02] ochosi: well if there is a specific one you'd rather I used - point me to it and I will ofc [23:02] yeah, it should be fine, but we should also try to get it in [23:02] flocculant: will do as soon as i've cleaned it up. i had a branch with CSD/headerbar (which will make some ppl in here whine) and gtk3-only, i think that's where i want to continue [23:02] okey doke [23:02] plus i'm wondering if we need other graphs there [23:03] or improved graphs [23:03] but we'll see [23:03] ping me when you want me to take a gander at it [23:03] kewl, will do [23:04] ok, that's that subtopic from my side [23:04] JackFrost: anything to add? [23:04] anything you think needs updates? [23:04] ochosi: did you think more on that tooltips thing on taskmanager? [23:04] I don't know what I'd be adding. [23:04] an #action [23:04] :D [23:04] or an #info [23:04] flocculant: that'd be one thing i could/would fix, not sure if i'd do it in the current stable series [23:05] right [23:05] it has been like this for ages tbh [23:05] and the UI ways to fix this are not very gtk2-ish [23:05] but we'll see [23:05] maybe i can come up with a simple idea [23:05] the main thing is i want to avoid i18n [23:05] yea I guess so - it just hit me the other day when the mouse got left when I went to work and the tooltip was still there hours later :D [23:05] and fixing it without adding new strings sucks [23:05] :) [23:06] at least probably [23:06] but we'll see [23:06] want to move on ? [23:06] floor's still your one :p [23:06] JackFrost: dunno, if you feel there's a problem somewhere or bugs (like you raised concerns against xfpm 1.6)... [23:07] i myself need to make the jump to 18.04, i am lacking overview a little of what we have already changed... [23:07] Yeah but that was a long time ago, so you either fixed them, couldn't fix them, or ignored them. :P [23:07] things like xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin vs. indicator-sound [23:07] IIRC, one of the fixes was in elementary-xfce-icon-theme. [23:08] and whether to add xfce4-notification-plugin to the panel by default [23:08] mmm [23:08] JackFrost: alrighty, that's fine then. just want to avoid things falling through the cracks [23:08] or clipman-plugin [23:08] then I might try and find energy to do what I'd been actioned to do if you're going to look at panel [23:08] but that may be knome's topic from before [23:08] xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin*, and yeah there's nothing wrong with that one, less fragile than xfce4-indicator-plugin+indicator-application. [23:09] yeah, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin to [23:09] too [23:09] is all of that in our default session already? [23:09] ochosi: can we make that an #action (panel that is) [23:10] Yes, I believe so. [23:10] flocculant: you mean the panel config? [23:10] yea [23:10] knome: is that what you wanted to discuss earlier..? [23:10] I was going to look at one thing - but if it's more general then it can be more than 1 person :p [23:11] yeah, just want to make sure now [23:11] :) [23:11] if we're adding things - then the thing I was ignoring is more useful maybe :) [23:12] we should be replacing xfce4-indicator-plugin and indicator-application with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin [23:12] and indicator-sound with xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin [23:12] ochosi, outside the meeting, yes [23:12] and should be discussing whether to keep indicator-messages [23:13] and whether to add things like clipman or notifyd [23:13] knome: ok, then let's do that later [23:13] i'm fine with moving on then [23:13] Eh, nah don't add them. [23:13] ochosi: that's never really worked for me - but then I never use anything (other than tbird) which lived there [23:13] ochosi, and it was basically only needed between me and flocculant too :) [23:13] flocculant: Pidgin works with it, which we ship. [23:13] ochosi: move on then :) [23:14] yeah, it's pidgin and thunderbird [23:14] anyway, let's move on [23:14] JackFrost: right - 'then I never use anything' was where I was going there [23:14] i have one last topic, and then i pass the floor back to you gusy [23:14] guys [23:14] #subtopic gtk-theme-config status quo [23:14] right [23:15] so currently gtk-theme-config is broken and useless (fairly) [23:15] this stuff between you 2 I did read :p [23:15] it works ok for gtk2 but not at all reliably with gtk3 [23:15] so i started an investigation into whether it can be fixed [23:15] in the generic way that it was working before [23:15] for "most themes" [23:15] i'm somewhere between 30 and 50% there [23:16] hard to judge [23:16] and i can't say what the outcome will be [23:16] but in general it's possible that we may need to drop it [23:16] it's also possible that it will be hard to rewrite until FF [23:16] and which freeze do we need to decide by? [23:16] FF I assume? [23:16] or alternatively it may only work with "some themes" and we will have to decide whether that's "enough" [23:17] the problem is that it's hard to test [23:17] mmm [23:17] point [23:17] latest FF [23:17] point is we need to keep it on our radar a bit [23:17] that's like saying that we have a text editor that sometimes works [23:17] but anyway, i will keep you updated about my progress [23:17] soory - meant I had a point :p [23:17] well it's not as critical as a text editor luckily :) [23:18] but yeah, it's a bit of a can of worms [23:18] partly due to the complexity of gtk theming [23:18] if we had something else we knew 'sometimes' worked - we'd likely ditch it - especially on something for 3 years [23:18] anyway, we'll see [23:18] yea I understood that much [23:18] just wanted to get everyone on the same page [23:18] yup [23:19] there are still quite a few open issues on all blueprints btw [23:19] that could either be the next topic or we discuss it offline and move on [23:19] worst case scenario from my pov is we lose it 'now' but it makes a triumphant return between LTS's :p [23:20] Also, I've been going with "Wait and see" with xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, but since it's not really part of the desktop so much anymore, I'd like to just sync it and say "bummer" to the ones not using ayatana indicators. [23:20] right [23:20] ochosi: yup - probably need to be more proactive at not gapping meetings by weeks then [23:20] JackFrost: that's ok if it's not in our default session anymore imo [23:20] Well, not great for upgrades at all, but.. [23:20] i agree [23:20] I'm happy for it to be next topic if others want to btw ochosi [23:21] flocculant: yeah, but you know, life... i just don't have enough time :/ [23:21] oh right [23:21] if you want to move on to sleep we can do it another time :) [23:21] I was meaning I'm in no hurry to #endmeeting [23:23] right, just wanted to make sure no-one else is [23:23] :) [23:23] since we're already 25mins over the scheduled time [23:24] well that's only some historical thing :) [23:25] when everyone is drained or gone and I'm here alone I'll end meeting :D [23:25] * ochosi goes to the loo to return and find out if anyone else is still awake [23:25] ochosi: if you've time now to 'say' things then go for it - if nothing else it gets minuted [23:26] Right, so I'll sync it, unless bluesabre says otherwise. [23:28] #topic blueprints status [23:29] #subtopic devel blueprint [23:29] so what i see there are some things that are stuck at packaging level [23:29] regarding elementary-xfce i think everything that needed to be done at source level has been done [23:29] it just needs the packaging updates to be carried out too [23:30] regarding parole, don't think that's going to happen this cycle (again) [23:30] too busy with xfce 4.14 [23:30] should be blocked I guess [23:30] and pidgin, that depends on bluesabre's time, but tbh i'm sceptical as it would probably have to go through upstream [23:30] or postponed.. [23:30] :) [23:30] regarding xubuntu-core, JackFrost? [23:31] appstream could be low-hanging fruit for almost everyone, i personally know i don't have the time [23:32] the mate packaging things also seem a little stuck [23:33] gtk-theme-config is in progress, thunar custom actions is a little stuck (cause i'm afraid of not finding generic enough solutions without adding depends) [23:34] I'm here now [23:34] hi bluesabre [23:34]